Cable Forum - Starmer’s chronicles

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Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36188622)

That starmer sounds like a wrong un

https://www.gbnews.com/news/rochdale...grooming-gangs

Anyone got a link to this alleged circular that Gordon Brown sent to all police forces?

Quote:

Oliver said that in 2008, Gordon Brown issued a circular to all UK police forces which effectively stated "do not prosecute these rape gangs, these children are making a lifestyle choice."

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36188627)

Anyone got a link to this alleged circular that Gordon Brown sent to all police forces?

Have you asked your mates in the labour party?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36188628)

Have you asked your mates in the labour party?

Quote:

The duties and powers of the police under The Children Act 1989

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

I’m not sure how it could be that one, as nothing in it aligns with what Maggie Oliver alleged (and the Circulars come from the Home Office, not from Gordon Brown).

Here are all the 2008 circulars.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....?d-7095067-p=2

In fact, someone put an FOI request in to the home Office in 2018, and the reply was

Quote:

Freedom of Information request reference: 51036

Thank you for your email of 12 November in which you request information about a Home
Office circular sent to police forces in 2008 in relation to child sexual exploitation. Your
request has been handled as a request for information under the Freedom of Information
Act 2000 (FOIA).

As the issuing authority, the Home Office holds information about circulars the department
issued in 2008. We have not been able to identify any circular which includes the
statement in your request.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ponse.pdf.html

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36188629)

I don’t have any mates in the Labour Party…

Meanwhile, back in the real world, there are no Home Office circulars to U.K. Police in 2008 stating any along the lines Maggie Oliver has alleged - the only one that refers to children

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

I’m not sure how it could be that one, as nothing in it aligns with what Maggie Oliver alleged (and the Circulars come from the Home Office, not from Gordon Brown).

Here are all the 2008 circulars.

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....?d-7095067-p=2

In fact, someone put an FOI request in to the home Office in 2018, and the reply was

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reque...ponse.pdf.html

For someone with no mates in the labour party you seem rather invested in this

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36188630)

For someone with no mates in the labour party you seem rather invested in this

You're a bit friendly with Labour too....
:shocked:

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36151363)

I repaid the the gov by voting labour for the first time in my life,pick the id and the Tax out of that sushi

Don't know how you can live with yourself ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36188621)

The man is a maniacal narcissist with too much money, entitlement and power

But not wrong.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36188634)

You're a bit friendly with Labour too....
:shocked:

Don't know how you can live with yourself ;)

He lost, it was a protest vote like most labour votes are

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36188627)

Anyone got a link to this alleged circular that Gordon Brown sent to all police forces?

Link

Quote:

Nazir Afzal, a solicitor, became the Chief Prosecutor of the North West in 2011 and he, being of Pakistani heritage, didn’t suffer from the political correctness that had stopped earlier prosecutions of the Muslim rape/grooming gangs. He was vigorous in the prosecution of the Rochdale gangs.

...
In this interview which took place on 19th October 2018 Mr Afzal said,
“You may not know this, but back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all Police forces in the country saying, ‘As far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we beieve that they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for you police officers to get involved in’
If that’s the landscape coming from the top down in 2008, rest assured all agencies are going to listen to it.”

Considering alcohol, drugs, and threats of violence were involved, along with the girls being well under 16, not sure where the "informed choice" comes from.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36188630)

For someone with no mates in the labour party you seem rather invested in this

Facts are not political - facts are our friends (well, obviously not yours - they’re not even distant acquaintances…).

As Stewart Lee put it so pithily

Quote:

You can prove anything with facts

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36188641)

Link
Considering alcohol, drugs, and threats of violence were involved, along with the girls being well under 16, not sure where the "informed choice" comes from.

Just to add some enhanced optics on the above

Nazir Afzal was Chief Prosecutor in North West England from 2011 to 2015 and does appear to be a very respected individual. It is, therefore, important to read behind the explosive headline in the publication Politicalite: "GORDON Brown’s Labour Government allegedly urged Police Forces across the UK ‘not to investigate’ grooming gangs," to see what Mr Afzal actually sad in his interview with the BBC.

According to Altnewsmedia Nazir Afzal made the comment when he was interviewed on the Radio 4 PM programme on 19th October (2018). What he said was this: "back in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country stating: "as far as these young girls who are being exploited in towns and cities, we believe they have made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it is not for police officers to get involved in." This was quoted correctly by Politicalite. However, when questioned about whether the Metropolitan Police had received such a letter the London Mayor's office stated: "Without further details the Met Police is unable to identify the Home Office circular from 2008 referred to nor the letter in question. Therefore, they cannot state whether any investigations were closed down in response to the letter or whether any order in the letter was later rescinded." Similarly, in response to a FOI query, West Mercia Police said there was,"No specific recorded information held." Furthermore, a search of the words "informed Choice" finds nothing on https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk.

In the International Business Times Nazir Afzal writes....
"The term "child prostitute" was used to describe victims and the Home Office in a circular to police in 2008 used that term and spoke of girls making an "informed choice" to engage in this behaviour"

However, there is no mention of an instruction saying that police shouldn't get involved. Indeed, his IBT article goes on to state: "Following the case, everyone including the prime minister chose to respond to the lessons learnt. I was commended in parliament and in the media."

So, what of the publisher of the explosive headline about Gordon Brown's Government?
their support us page claims ...."Politicalite is the truly independent news site that reports the unreported news by the people for the people, but we are under attack by the Establishment who are trying to censor real news written by the people for the people." The search bar at the top of the page contains individual links to Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage. An overview of its contents clear shows that its editorial stance is to support Robinson, Farage and, indeed, Donald Trump.

Perhaps a cellarful of salt would be in order when reviewing their stories.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36188641)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Anyone got a link to this alleged circular that Gordon Brown sent to all police forces?

Link

Quote:

Considering alcohol, drugs, and threats of violence were involved, along with the girls being well under 16, not sure where the "informed choice" comes from.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_English_Review

Quote:

The New English Review is an online monthly magazine of cultural criticism, published from Nashville, Tennessee, since February 2006.[1] Scholars note the magazine to have platformed a range of far-right Islamophobic discourse including conspiracy theories. An eponymous press is run by the same publisher.[1]

https://x.com/jacqui_smith1/status/1...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

Quote:

Nazir Azfal

Dozens of police officers told me Home Office Circular 17/2008 on child abuse had supporting guidelines (issued by whom I don’t know) which referred to children making an “informed choice”

Never seen it (I’m not police) & certainly no Minister would have needed to agree it

He’s referring to the Home Office Circular which I referred to earlier, which has no reference to children making an "informed choice"…

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

The only times "informed" is used within this Circular are

Quote:

Informing the child

34.The initiating officer should communicate and keep the child informed throughout. The initiating officer should take account of the child's wishes as part of the decision making process and on matters of arrangements involved in being taken into police protection.

Quote:

Local Authority action

47. Once a local authority has been informed by the police that a child is in police protection, section 47 requires them to make or cause to be made any necessary enquiries which would enable them to decide whether or not they should take any action to safeguard or promote the child's welfare.

Quote:

67. The refuges (Children's Home and Foster Placement) Regulations 1991 provide that, within 24 hours of a child being admitted to a refuge, the person providing the refuge should notify the police officers authorised by the chief officer for the purpose of the Regulations of the child's admission, his/her name (if known) and his/her last permanent address (if known). Outside office hours, it is likely that notification of an admission will be received initially by the officer on duty. If the name of the child is known, the duty officer should search the Police National Computer Missing Persons (PNC MISPERS) Index and notify the authorised officer of the child's last permanent address. He/she should ensure that the authorised officer is informed of the admission as soon as possible.

The word "choice" is not used in the Circular at all…

Further to Mr M’s post above, the word "prostitute" (with or without the word "child" in front of it) does not appear in the Circular Mr Azfal refers to.

There have been multiple FOI applications to the Home Office, the CPS, and various Police Forces about any Circulars which supports this accusation, and they all turn up empty….

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36188635)

But not wrong.

He isn't wrong that there might be a case for another inquiry if someone can suggest a new scope not covered in the 2022 one.

He is wrong about freeing Tommy Robinson or calling for the King to dissolve Parliament.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36188609)

The councillors - from Broxtowe Borough Council in Nottinghamshire

Wow, thats my council. :erm:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36188644)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_English_Review

https://x.com/jacqui_smith1/status/1...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg

He’s referring to the Home Office Circular which I referred to earlier, which has no reference to children making an "informed choice"…

https://webarchive.nationalarchives....2008/017-2008/

The only times "informed" is used within this Circular are

The word "choice" is not used in the Circular at all…

Further to Mr M’s post above, the word "prostitute" (with or without the word "child" in front of it) does not appear in the Circular Mr Azfal refers to.

There have been multiple FOI applications to the Home Office, the CPS, and various Police Forces about any Circulars which supports this accusation, and they all turn up empty….

that was a yawnfest

Re: Starmer’s chronicles

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36188621)

The man is a maniacal narcissist with too much money, entitlement and power

No argument here.