Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Beats me why Jimi has to sound like he's typing how he speaks I mean ffs, I was born in London, but I don't go round typing.

'Leave it ahhht', ere tweakle, I'm goin up the apples n pears'

Muppet.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

:rofl:

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 ----------

It's very much the impression I got but I accept your explanation and there are certainly no bad feelings here - except to those who try to dress up stereotypes and nationalistic nonsense as debate and stir up trouble... ;)

Salmond wants to have his cake and eat it but that's not on. A truly independent Scotland can not have Sterling as its currency or pick and choose which bits of independence it wants. If Salmond's genie is let out of the bottle there will be no putting it back in and those considering what to do need to think about that reality before putting their 'x' on the ballot paper because it's going to affect them far more than the rest of us and there will be no going back.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

This is another nationalist fantasy my friend. Britain did not come north to rule. England and Scotland passed Acts of Union in their own legislatures, preserving the bodies of law in each territory but agreeing that in future, those laws would be legislated in one common parliament. This parliament was based in London, which was the fair and reasonable choice for all sorts of reasons. Since 1707 Scots have been over-represented, in terms of population share, at the very top of UK institutions. Economically and socially Scotland has thrived and its people have enjoyed access to the first division of world affairs in a way that would not have happened otherwise.

Every government, everywhere in the world, has to govern for the good of the whole. This means its decisions will always be better for some than others. However on balance the overall health of the nation is good for the whole nation. An independent Scottish government sitting in Edinburgh would operate on exactly the same principles. The people of Shetland, for example, might reasonably point out that Edinburgh is still a very, very long way in terms of distance and culture.

The idea that everything would have been completely different if only the government were in Edinburgh instead of Scotland is just another nationalist fantasy.

What the SNP is saying is, none of these things would have happened if we had been in charge. That claim is nonsense for many reasons, two big ones being:

1. What makes the SNP so sure they'd have been in charge? They're a political party like any other. They are subject to the voters like any other.
2. Scotland has plenty of voters with centre-right sentiments - otherwise it would be politically unique in the Western world, and it isn't. There is a serious Tory image problem north of the border which masks that sentiment, and independence would most likely result in the death of the Tories in Scotland, followed by the formation of a new centre-right party. In time, this party would get its hands on power in Edinburgh. It's inevitable. So don't be so quick to assume that independence is the final solution to evil Tories. In the long run a government in Edinburgh would have its fair share of governments from both the Left and the Right, same as everywhere else.

What this comes down to is the SNP's amateurish failure to tell the difference between a national constitution, and party politics. Independence is a constitutional issue, but they are selling it on a 'white paper' which is actually an SNP party manifesto. They simply cannot guarantee that party political promises (such as free childcare) can last more than a few years beyond independence because such issues cannot be written in to a constitution.

Alex Salmond wants to take oil revenue and create a sovereign wealth fund. Unfortunately, the state services that are currently paid for out of UK taxes are currently paid for, in part, out of that oil revenue. If Salmond takes oil revenue out of current spending, then in order to maintain spending on schools, hospitals and spare bedrooms for people claiming housing benefit, then he will have to find the money from somewhere else. He will find that money in the only other place it exists - your pocket. Independent Scotland, higher personal taxes. Your choice.

It did. But the SNP is not proposing a return to Pound Scots, it is proposing that IndeScotland continues to use Pound Sterling (GBP) via a formal currency union, which represents on the one hand, effectively surrendering Scottish independence as soon as it has been agreed, and on the other hand a significant political and economic risk for rUK.

Pound Scots means currency exchanges, and therefore fees, every time you do business with a company based in England. Paypal will make a fortune out of it, you certainly won't.

70% of Scotland's trade goes to other parts of the UK. Denominating those goods in Pound Scots adds currency costs that do not currently exist and puts Scotland on a footing with Ireland, France and wherever else in Europe. Once Scotland is just another country with a different currency, its current domestic advantage is gone.

And in reverse, goods coming to Scotland from rUK also become more expensive because of currency costs. And there are vastly more goods coming north than going south. This is a much bigger issue for Scotland than it is for rUK.

I don't think the border should be closed, not least because I live on the northern side of it. ;) However that is what being truly independent entails, if by independence you would point at Norway and Switzerland, as you did when you quoted David Cameron.

You have not heard me arguing that Scotland will implode. You have not heard Better Together arguing that either. You may have heard some nutter down the pub saying that, but then there are nutters on both sides and I think we can safely ignore them.

You have heard me, and BT, argue that on balance Scotland will be worse off, because loss of economies of scale will result in higher costs for groceries, higher costs for public services (resulting in higher taxes to pay for them), higher costs for students because Scotland will not be able to afford to pay fees for students from rUK, who would suddenly be entitled to them under EU law as citizens of a foreign member state.

You have also heard me, and BT, argue that the risks of Scotland facing an economic catastrophe are greater because the economic shocks of 2008 and since have shown just how badly things can go wrong, how much money is required to put them right, and what fiscal structures are required in order to administer the treatment.

I'm not sure what you mean about the Governor of the BoE seeing 'less money coming in'. I think you may have got the wrong end of the stick here and perhaps you need to go and do some reading up on what the Bank of England is for, and what it does.

As for the boss of BP worrying about Salmond taxing his business, well yes, and why shouldn't he? Tax regimes are important to businesses, especially to multinational businesses. Hostile tax regimes deter investment by such businesses. You may think that's not your problem if some fat cat business gets thumped by a proud Scottish left-wing government, but it will become your problem pretty darned quick if that tax regime results in BP, and others, going elsewhere. When the tax take falls, other taxes go up or public services get cut. It is inevitable.

There are a lot of people who voted for the SNP in 2011 for reasons other than their stance on independence. The SNP's showing in the Holyrood elections should not be taken as an indication of the referendum voting intentions of the Scottish electorate.

Scottish voters are canny and tactical. They realised that in many cases the only way to 'get the Labour out' was to vote for his SNP rival. Holyrood elections are fought under a system that is *broadly* proportional but it is still not perfect. The SNP may have just scraped an overall majority of seats but they did so on 45% of the vote - i.e. they didn't get the support of the majority of voters. That's not to take anything away from their achievement in 2011, but don't for a moment think that those results read across to a 'yes' vote this year.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Game, set and match methinks :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Or perhaps a bridge over troubled waters.(England).
Anyway,as Rabbie Burns said in his Parcel O'Rogues poem.....Bought and sold by English gold.
It's also incredible to think that centuries later we still have part of the Act of Union which forbids Catholics to become head of state,unbelievable.

http://www.angrypict.co.uk/union.html

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Seriously ?

So you'd have no problem with the Archbishop of Canterbury for example becoming the next Pope.

Also would it be OK for Shetland and Orkney to seek independence if a Yes vote is successful?

J

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Monarch is head of the Church Of England.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The famous Jewish poet.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

No, no no....He promised LESS taxes remember? Less Taxes, more spending. Why didn't our Government think of that?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Bought with English gold, does that refer to bailing out the bankrupt Scots after their foreign empire building adventures.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I'm sure you are aware that he's English hence he's not relevant to us in Scotland.

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:37 ----------

You are aware that Lowland Scots are classified as being sassenach,aren't you Hugh.

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:38 ----------

I'm quite certain the now deceased witch was grateful for our black gold.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Make your mind up you seem to be getting confused. You complained that the head of STATE cannot be catholic. As the head of STATE is also the head of the Church of England then you would like to appoint some one of different faith to the head of a church, hence the responses, not sure what the nationality of the appointee has to do with it.

I take it your OK with a Catholic / Jew / Muslim being appointed the head of the Church of Scotland (or Moderator of the General Assembly as there is no mortal head of the church) then? That's effectively what you are asking for.

What about Shetland or Orkney?

J

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Your point was about whether Catholics could ascend the throne and the Queen will remain monarch in Scotland even if the yes campaign wins will she not?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

OK you're pretty sure the vote will turn out as a 'yes', we can all see that.

But hypothetically speaking, just imagine for a moment it turns out as a 'no'. What will you do then?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Then Alex Salmond pushes for Devo-Max whilst claiming it was his plan all along. The SNP cheerleaders praise him to the heavens for outwitting the dastardly English once again and we have to look at the smug one's face being extremely smug for years to come.