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zing_deleted 01-06-2007 13:13
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34318982)
So you are blaming them?
no im coming back at your post isnt that debating ;) I enjoy a good deep heavy debate like the next man.

So you are saying they did everything they could to look after there kids whilst they went out then?

TheDaddy 01-06-2007 13:15
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicken (Post 34318931)
Obviously not enough or somebody would of noticed her going.
Have I really missed something here during the mass reporting? Did the abductor walk in of the street into the complex past reception and all the other guests, checking each room at his leisure for a victim? Or did he break in around the rear of the complex with a crowbar?

Xaccers 01-06-2007 13:16
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34318984)
no im coming back at your post isnt that debating ;) I enjoy a good deep heavy debate like the next man.

So you are saying they did everything they could to look after there kids whilst they went out then?
You're saying they didn't do enough, ergo are to blame for her being abducted.

zing_deleted 01-06-2007 13:17
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34318982)
So you are blaming them!
How about appologising for accusing me of misquoting you?
how can I have accused you of misquoting me for a post I had not even yet posted :confused:

---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34318986)
You're saying they didn't do enough, ergo are to blame for her being abducted.
Im saying they should not have left them like they did ergo they should not have left them like they did

Saaf_laandon_mo 01-06-2007 13:19
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34318977)
They know their kids better than anyone else, and if they felt that it was ok to leave them for a meal while checking on them regularly, while being sat across the way from them, that doesn't strike me as irresponsible.
If they'd gone out drinking at one of the nightclubs in town with no intention of coming back for hours and having no one check in on them, that would be irresponsible.
And you do mind what people think you mean, other wise you wouldn't be going on and on about it so much ;)
The last time they checked before noticing the time MAddie was abducted was 50 mins (police report based on evidence given by the parents)

I can't believe that people think its reasonable to leave 3 children under the age of 4 home alone. And so what if there are other people in the complex supposedly 'looking out ' for your kid. I have yet to read anything about the parents saying anything to anyone else to keep an eye out on their kids, more that it was an 'understanding'. No aspect of childcare was formalised or agreed or talked out.

Responsible parents? IN THIS CASE definately not.

Xaccers 01-06-2007 13:20
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34318988)
Im saying they should not have left them like they did ergo they should not have left them like they did
Therefore placing blame on them. Which you've been doing thoughout the thread by stating that they should not have left the children.
Why shouldn't they have left the children? Because to do so left them open to abduction you've said, hence the mobile phone analogy.
Now you're trying to backtrack like a Tory front bencher being asked about Grammar schools ;)

zing_deleted 01-06-2007 13:22
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34318992)
The last time they checked before noticing the time MAddie was abducted was 50 mins (police report based on evidence given by the parents)

I can't believe that people think its reasonable to leave 3 children under the age of 4 home alone. And so what if there are other people in the complex supposedly 'looking out ' for your kid. I have yet to read anything about the parents saying anything to anyone else to keep an eye out on their kids, more that it was an 'understanding'. No aspect of childcare was formalised or agreed or talked out.

Responsible parents? IN THIS CASE definately not.
I dont think anyone is they seem to avoid the question when I ask

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34318993)
Therefore placing blame on them. Which you've been doing thoughout the thread by stating that they should not have left the children.
Why shouldn't they have left the children? Because to do so left them open to abduction you've said, hence the mobile phone analogy.
Now you're trying to backtrack like a Tory front bencher being asked about Grammar schools ;)

do you think its ok to leave 3 children under 4 alone while the parents go out without any proper supervision

The abductor is to blame for the abduction
The parents should not have left the children alone.
I would say the same if there was no abduction and just news of negligence

They should not have left the children because of accident fire distress other reasons ive also constantly highlighted in this thread

Xaccers 01-06-2007 14:29
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Yes I think it's ok to be 100 yards or so away from the kids while having a meal and checking in on them regularly.
That is no different to being inside the house while children are playing out in the street, or in a next door neighbours garden.
Millions of parents don't sit and watch their children every minute of the day, especially at night.
Are you saying that millions of parents are negligent because they leave their children asleep in bed for 30 minutes?

zing_deleted 01-06-2007 14:31
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Thank you for you answer.
Im sorry but im not gonna answer your question as I feel its rediculas. Totally different

gazzae 01-06-2007 14:31
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 34318901)
Didn't the intruder break in at the rear of the apartment, I seem to remember something about jemmy's and doors being mentioned
Most of what I have read says the patio doors of the apartment were unlocked.

If you are in the next room then it is possible that you hear a noise or your child shouting and you go investigate. If you are in a tapas bar 100 yards away you are not going to hear anything.

Xaccers 01-06-2007 14:33
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazzae (Post 34319041)
Most of what I have read says the patio doors of the apartment were unlocked.

If you are in the next room then it is possible that you hear a noise or your child shouting and you go investigate. If you are in a tapas bar 100 yards away you are not going to hear anything.
Children's screams normally go further than 100yds.

zing_deleted 01-06-2007 14:36
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
an apartment block will have a lot of noise surely who could know which child made a noise

Xaccers 01-06-2007 14:40
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinglebarb (Post 34319047)
an apartment block will have a lot of noise surely who could know which child made a noise
Really?
No family apartment blocks I've stayed in have had lots of noise after dark, normally because they're family orientated.
As a parent, you KNOW your child's screams if they need help

gazzae 01-06-2007 15:08
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34319043)
Children's screams normally go further than 100yds.
And of course Tapas bars are quiet places with no music playing.

Also according to the paper today they could only see the wall of the apartment, they couldn't see the door or windows.

zing_deleted 01-06-2007 15:12
Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaccers (Post 34319050)
Really?
No family apartment blocks I've stayed in have had lots of noise after dark, normally because they're family orientated.
As a parent, you KNOW your child's screams if they need help
well I definately would if I was in the apartment, 100 yards away around a corner in a bar with a few drinks inside me I could not say


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