Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can we ask for our money back?






. . . and then tell the EU to piss off :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Is the UK even an attractive place to go? Of migrants who cross the Med very few reach the UK. Or is it just a trope used by the right wing media to demonise migrants.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cleethorpes is but London is a crap hole.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Even the BBC report on the figures coming across the channel so the answer to your question is no. It is not a right wing agenda

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Having been to both, I have to agree mate . . . although London does seem to have more donkeys :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nobody is disputing that people cross the channel - but the fact the number is not zero doesn’t prove the absence of a right wing agenda around the subject.

I think it’s the express today saying “£40 a week, free mobiles and a free stay in a 4 star hotel while your case is pending”. It doesn’t mention that you are basically a prisoner in the hotel and £40 a week doesn’t go far, but that’s incidental to their narrative. As appealing as it sounds I don’t think people travel halfway round the world (and risk death) for it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's a pity that the hand of hospitality isn't extended to our homeless . .

"£40 a week, free mobiles and a free stay in a 4 star hotel while your case is pending until we get you a permanent residence sorted” isn't something you see being touted around is it.

I expect someone will say that some of the homeless have 'made themselves homeless' . . . which is obviously far different than sneaking across from France in a boat at 2am.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They should set up a limited company and bid for Government contracts.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If we can find accommodation for 30K + migrants, and support them. There should be no person homeless in this country, that doesn't want to be.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:tu: been saying that exact thing for years

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

what about the looney left agenda you spout???

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The country has more than enough money. You just need to convince those that should pay taxes to pay taxes.

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

Nope, that only works if you are chums with a Tory minister or MP ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If you want someone’s cooperation who is already awkward or annoyed with you, you don’t agitate that person further. Otherwise all you’re doing is flicking an angry tiger in its plums with a wet towel and then wondering why it mauls you.

Collaboration and diplomacy are required if we have are to have any chance of resolving this issue.

Running round like a small child going ‘I told you so’ will solve nothing apart from making you feel justified. And, apart from to you that’s insignificant.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

"Collaboration and diplomacy"


Give us fishing rights or we will blockade your ports

. . . and maybe even stop your gas supply


. . . oh, and we want £57million to play at patrolling our beaches

or else

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So, do you lower yourself to the other sides or persons standards?

On your second point, why not protect our own borders, they are in fact ours.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They started it dad :p:


I didn't think French beaches were our borders?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They're not, but as 'we' are wanting to stop people getting into 'our' country, surely the onus is on 'us' to protect our borders ? rather than relying on a 3rd country.

There's a lot of coastline to guard in Northern France, and unless your plan is to put someone every 100m to stop them, then i don't see how this realistically works.

The same issue is happening at the US/Mexico border, despite all the money the US throw at other countries and technology.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A week or so ago when others were suggesting we would invoke Article 16, I said it was unlikely but we would seek distraction by poking the French French bear Article 16 has not been invoked and the open letter has indeed poked the French bear.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Pretty delusional in my opinion, calling the French chap a Bear . . . have you told Putin about it?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nice…

tbf, on the Overton Window, you’d probably be a hinge on the right windowpane…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wouldn't that then be an unhinged window?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Why ? because I blame the French for escorting boats into British water? because I posted link to videos proving what they do ? for thinking we should make it less attractive for them to come here? That makes me extreme right does it ?? please explain your accusation

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Escort, to accompany (someone or something) somewhere as an escort.

The video appears to show them stood by and to make no attempt to stop the boat leaving.

Not the same thing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

hahahaha ok notice how they did not stop them in French waters and take them. Deny the truth as much as it is convenient for you

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They also didn't assist them into the waters, therefore they did not 'escort' them anywhere. They acted more as neutral observers than anything else.

If you're going to be angry about something at least know what you're being angry about.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

absolute rubbish. Neutral observers in French waters instead of doing something to stop them is escorting the out of French waters. Playful word tricks do not wash

Were they there ? yes
Were they making sure they were safe ? yes
is that escorting ? YES

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not doing one thing does not automatically equate to doing something else. this is not Newton's third law.

Not everything is black and white, there's a whole myriad in terms of shades of grey.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They escorted them out of French waters and then left them in one of the videos.

You cannot see the wood for the trees, see I can say something cute too

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So, the French police or border patrols walked next to them whilst the boat launched ? Or, they were in the sea with them as the boat left.

Can you provide the link to that video please?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

already have

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Could you post it again please? I've not been able to check up much on here recently. so if you have the link to the video that shows it i would appreciate it, thank you.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I will not post it again you have mentioned my video posts so surely you must have viewed them all ?? if not then how could you possibly had a reply? I will await your reply to this and if the answer is good enough I have another video ready to post that I have not already posted

---------- Post added at 15:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

I will just throw this little taster video of French Police watching a boat leave and doing nothing. There was also a helicopter he mentioned. So yes the French are letting them cross and they are actively escorting them into British waters. You can argue the toss over the word escort but it is happening without any doubt at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ghi_pN7Jj7w

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, I've seen you post that you've posted videos in the last page or so i think?
and I'm many pages back in the discussion, which is why i asked courteously if you could post the link. that's all.

The question that i would ask is that if the French police have allowed migrants to leave unchallenged vs how many have been prevented from leaving either at beaches or from in other parts ot the country?

In my opinion I don't believe that all of the French police or coastguard are stood there shouting 'Au revoir et bonne chance, voici un pain au chocolat' as they help them clamber onboard their boats.

A little perspective is called for, that's all

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

easier to be blinkered than to see the truth going on around them

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:14 ----------

so you responded to videos of escorting saying they were not escorting without even watching the videos I posted???? what is that all about

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ah good afternoon my old friend/sparring partner, trust you're well?

I'm merely pointing out that inaction in one area doesn't equate to action in another.

I'm none of those things, I'm a pragmatist & i believe that in the modern world in which we live and hopefully thrive it will be tact & diplomacy that see us progress, not anti <insert country here> rhetoric.

Each to their own however, be a boring old world if we were all held the same views.

Nice to hear from you sweetie xx

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Same as all Brexit voters aren't uneducated plebs from the North, Racists etc . . . however, perspective didn't hold you back there as I recall

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No... i asked you to post the videos because i saw you had posted this

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=3223

not your earlier posts....

---------- Post added at 15:21 ---------- Previous post was at 15:19 ----------

hmmm i dont remember saying that, could you show me where?

(this is a new me, trying to be much calmer) and ready to admit past faults ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

you see in that post I said about posting evidence. I just wanted to know from Hugh what I have said in this thread or elsewhere for that matter that makes me pretty much a Nazi cuz in his words he put me on the right hinges of the Overton window which according to him way beyond radical and tbh I do not appreciate that accusation

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nah, let it go, can't be bothered with all this point scoring stuff . . . best left to politicians is that game ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ok, so, firstly, thank you for posting the link to the video, which does as you say show the French police allowing the boat to leave without intervention. In my mind they're not actively escorting but, that's semantics, so, c'est la vie.

Coming back to a point i made earlier, to be able to make a considered decision surely we need to factor in how many have been stopped from leaving?

There are always going to be a few bad apples in every police force. The UK itself shows enough evidence of that from it's recent past. Not that this justifies these officers behaviour

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

Oh go on deary, double top and you've won ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

once is too much though and come seriously? you know the French want rid it is plainly obvious to me anyway. Macrons whole response to Boris letter today shows he wants nothing to do with it. They were given money to slow it down and the proof that even one boat was watched leaving with no intervention is a breach

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Right . . . that's enough

Who are you, and what have you done to the real mrmistoffelees? :D



edit: . . total recall (not) . . but I seem to remember reading . . oh 6 months or so back maybe . . that the French were refusing to intercept boats because the kerfuffle may cause the migrants to panic and possibly capsize the boat they're in.

Could we play that game and leave them to flounder on towards the coast . . or are we 'better' than that?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't think you will ever. ever achieve perfection,

As i said before look at the US/Mexico border and with people coming from Guatemala & other countries, look at the amount of money that the US has thrown at countries & also thrown at technology (ours by comparison is a piffling amount) and they still cannot halt the flow.

We can pay France however much we want but ultimately if 'we' want to stop these people from making that journey then the responsibility is on 'us.' Now, how that's achieved is an entirely different kettle du poisson

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

I am the real me ;) had some time away from posting as i didn't like the way i was posting :)

To your edit, I don't see the British coastguard/navy intercepting and turning away boats? if it's that easy why are they not doing so?

I don't particularly want to play aquatic wiff-waff with innocent people's lives

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I had a suggestion quite a few pages ago ( :D ) but apparently it won't work because they won't have any ID . . or somfink



. . . and it would cost money ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Take them back to France. The prospect of which made Macron throw his dummy out the pram today

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

OK, so, why are we not doing that already?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

As the fog of Covid (temporarily) clears, we can turn our attention to the train wreck that Brexit has resulted in, Business leaders certainly have:

Half of UK SMEs think whole of UK society has been damaged by Brexit

Apply the long term 4% drop on GBP, twice as bad as Covid will be, and you see more and more people realise they we're conned, big style.

Maybe the details of the train wreck were on the other side of the bus?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

aaaah the business leaders are back, profitability first lads, all hands to the pumps, we need our cheap labour back . . . oh, and don't mention the effect lockdowns had

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, exactly.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was curious as there are claims here that France is doing nothing to prevent people crossing the channel. It turns out, unsurprisingly, that that is complete nonsense;

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/11/12.jpg

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Certain media publications just love to incite and stir up nationalism.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not really. I'm not a fan of Macron but writing an open letter to the leader of another country won't get results. That kind of approach is just for internal consumption.

I suspect Macron was actually pleased by the open letter, he can increase his re-election prospects by saying he will stand up to an unreasonable UK and get rhe country behind him. Then do something unreasonable himself and Boris can play the same game.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

tut tut . . facts (a silly graph/chart ) with no link again ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

International Law. Our Navy cannot just enter the French waters like that at a guess

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.thelocal.fr/wp-content/u...t-18.34.24.jpg

Happy to be of service :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Link just shows the same 'picture', not the full story ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The French can see what a lot of those in UK seemingly cannot:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFIRZIlX...jpg&name=small

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The reality is that the proportion of all migrants in Europe attempting to cross the channel is broadly the same as it has been for quite a while. There are, however, lots more of them in Europe in absolute terms, hence more of them are crossing.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Then we need a practical approach to what we can do, which in part, in my mind would entail allowing people to apply in their country of origin & has already been stated going after the gang masters who control the trafficking

It wont stop everything, but i would hope it would be a start.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sent a pm requesting clarification on your accusation as this thread moves quite quickly and I would hate to miss your reasoning behind you implying I am extreme right

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

TBF you just asked for 'a link' not a link to the story ;)

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 16:06 ----------

Don't disagree, my point is that, certain media outlets are focusing on a small quantity of french officers failing to do their job, rather than the hundreds/thousands that do. said media outlets are trying to imply that this is normal behaviour.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, because you post things like

People in the "centre" of political views tend not to say things like that…

Hope this helps. :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

is that it? what an absolutely stupid reason to imply I am a Nazi

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hardly diplomatic..... :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No one called you a Nazi.

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Talking of Media, what about those French journalists, nicely positioned on the beach for the story (inc photos) of those migrants dragging a boat down to the water and then setting off for 'utopia'

I wonder if they - as a genuinely concerned person would - immediately inform the police . . . or wait until they have the story and shots they were after?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I wonder whether they ever ask the migrants why they’d rather risk drowning on the high seas than stay in France.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The media has acted in the same manner for years. However, if the police were stood there watching not sure they would need informing? (if you're referring to the same incident, I'm not sure)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

One could ask the same thing of M’sieu Farage…

https://metro.co.uk/2021/07/21/gb-ne...boat-14967594/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That question has been asked & answered several times already has it not?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

you know what you posted right hinge of the overton window that puts me as far right as right can be so basically saying I am capable of

"Far-right politics, also referred to as the extreme right or right-wing extremism, are politics further on the right of the left–right political spectrum than the standard political right, particularly in terms of being anti-communist, authoritarian, ultranationalist, and having nativist ideologies and tendencies."

as I said implying I am a Nazi

Don't come back with a "that is not what I meant" post cuz it was exactly what you did

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was stating, not implying, that people who use phrases like "loony left" usually quite a lot to the right of the political spectrum - if you wish to imply that that means you’re a Nazi, that’s entirely up to you.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

blar blar blar. I call you out a liar. You know exactly what putting me the furthest right means and no BS after changes that

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was referring to occasions when there was no police presence . . although now I've thought about it, the journo's follow plod to stories usually don't they.

hey ho, obvious lack of alcoholic beverage at my side ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Here you go, one link coming up - http://www.senat.fr/rap/r20-871/r20-...no.html#toc130

Happy to help :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

To my mind, there's a degree of similarity here

https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/vulture-little-girl/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I can kiss it better for you?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, that it pained you to defend Hugh ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm shocked those figures aren't higher, really am

Like the Mail, got a page bookmarked somewhere where they're complaining about the "huge influx" of stateless German Jews in the 1930's and how something had to be done about "the problem", surprised it didn't call for a final solution tbh

I also wonder if they're coming by dingy now because coming by truck trailer is harder now

A question that really needs asking at a much higher level, why do they come here, is it because of common language or family here or is it because they think we're a soft touch with benefits and it's easier to get work? There's nothing we can do about the former but plenty we can do about the latter, personally I think it's because they've already lost everything and risked so much to get that far all those reasons are valid so in much the same way France does nothing to stop them leaving we need to do more to discourage them, as previously stated the benefits are higher in France so maybe we need to be a bit more draconian with the punishments for people who employ or house them, the word will soon filter back, how'd you think word got to them to come here in the first place

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

but the extreme right where he put me is exactly where the neo Nazis sit. So if he was not calling me a Nazi he put me as bad as them and that is why I take offence

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No it doesn't, no more than making out someone far (looney) left makes them a communist

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

did I say far? I said looney left if I was called looney right thats fine but putting me on the extreme is not OK, OK?


Whatever anyway

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe think of it this way, not all people who hold far right political views are Nazi's However, all Nazi's hold far right political views.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yeah OK. Maybe I was a little sensitive but it is not the first time Hugh has insulted me so maybe I just got salty cuz I feel like he singles me out for his BS

How would he pretentiously put it ? ad hominem as what he said had nothing to do with the thread and just directed at me only (just like all my replies to his comment)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

aah don't worry about it. Sometimes I think I've been insulted on here, given a few put downs, made to look a right plonker even. :erm:

Think of this place as extended family . . we all fall out with each other . . just ride it until someone else is in the frame :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I just do not think someone who should be setting an example as a member of the team should be posting stuff like that. Not a good friendly example to set at all

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Anyway, back to the topic…

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-macron-letter https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53734793

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This is interesting. Let's see what the funding model is for this is :) With the initial application lead times, they may decide to stay in France after all.

What I don't understand is if they don't want the migrants to travel through Europe so they can attempt cross the Channel, why can't asylum requests be submitted via the UK embassies & consulates nearer the origin countries and so devolve the loading to a number of nearer countries.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

FFS put a different record on.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

wrong post mate. He said I was the right hinge on the Overton Window. Do not get further right than that

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think you're misunderstanding the Overton Window, if that's any reassurance.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:tu:

As you seem to understand, the Overton Window doesn’t have a ”Right" or a "Left’"…

(the OP was just a play on words… ;))