Re: Coronavirus
 

The shambolic EU compounds its incompetence:

They'll probably try and steal ours. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

AstraZeneca vaccine approved by EMA for all adults
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...dults-12202449

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hungary becomes the first country in the EU to approve a COVID-19 vaccine from China

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/29/...ine-from-china

---------- Post added at 15:41 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

EU vaccine row: Bitter Brussels BANS export of vaccines to UK putting NHS supplies at risk


The European Commission announced new controls on drug makers that want to send doses of Covid jabs abroad. Manufacturers will have to provide detailed information to eurocrats if they plan to sell abroad. Bitter eurocrats refused to include Britain on a 92-strong list of countries that European pharmaceutical firms will still be allowed to ship Covid jabs to.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...vaccine-latest


https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-b...zeneca-pfizer/

Re: Coronavirus
 

At the moment the EU has put controls in place to allow the ban but it doesn't appear they are yet.

We have to retaliate if they do. Pfizer depends on some chemicals produced here for fabrication of the vaccine, that needs to stop. We also stop any other exports around the vaccines.

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Re: Coronavirus
 

I doubt any country would go through with this but they can't threaten such action unless the EU sanctions it, which it has.

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The UK has yet another choice coming soon (if approved, which seems highly likely).

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Nah. If they want to pull the nuclear option so do we.

If they block the Pfizer entirely and even the AZ produced ones as well then we block the stuff they need to make the Pfizer vaccine too. Make it clear we either cooperate for the benefit of all of us or we engage in a tit for tat fight over vaccines in which we're in a better position.

We can then strike individual deals with other European nations if they want.

Of course we only do this if the EU dare to actually stop the shipment of vaccines and until then we cool the temperature if we can. This might just be sabre rattling from the EU which we can largely ignore apart from making it clear we will take action if needed.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Breakng News Tony Soprano confirmed as new EU Commission President.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As there are now a few vaccines on the market, perhaps they should start to tailor the best one for the circumstances of each individual eg one/some might be better for older people.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Heaven forbid we do that Germany suggested it and it was vaccine nationalism.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah yes the EU, weren’t they the ones that didn’t want a hard border on the island of Ireland? The staunch defenders of the Good Friday Agreement?

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-e...eland-12202656

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's why the protocol is there, just nobody expected them to invoke it first. The UK partition of the island of Ireland represents the gaping hole in the Single Market in both directions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s being discussed in the EU thread too, mods can decide best place for it.


If I was BoJo I would now absolutely and immediately send a million or so doses of the AZ vaccine by lorry across from N.I. To R.o.I for the express use of the Irish, and make sure the lorries were photographed crossing the border.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure we've got people who could use those vaccines first.

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Re: Coronavirus
 

Not to the point we should delay vaccinating 2% of our own population, they don't. It's not a difficult position for the Republic - vaccinate 12% of your population (two doses). No brainer. The folk in the North might feel a bit left out of such generosity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s the equivalent of a political tap in, within the 6yd box in the cup final. An opportunity too good to miss.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's arguably good PR, and good for the Republic of Ireland.

But once the headlines die down it doesn't change very much on the ground. The EU have a contract dispute with Astrazenica until there is a risk to supply of EU vaccines to the UK (which isn't yet the case) we should leave them to it.

It may have been Damien but apologies if it wasn't but someone did raise the prospect of the UK supplying vaccines to the Republic at some point if EU supplies continued to be flagging. I think there's a reasonable justification for this in the interests of Northern Ireland and the Common Travel Area once our vaccine programme has been successful.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU are not even close to following article 16.1 of the NI Protocol.
Nothing has actually happened, so how can the EU that it has led to anything?:confused: These "serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties" have to be actually occurring right now and before, for them to be able to invoke this. They also have to give a month's notice.

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If we've a sound contract we owe them nothing but the financial settlement agreed for purchase of the product offered.

Our political capital shouldn't be wasted on their incompetence if, as I suspect, they've got themselves into two contracts they cannot fulfill.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-ema-expensive

Great isn’t it! ?

I can hear Lord Percy of Percy behind me saying, we don’t like gloaters here..........

But I can’t help myself.

Another Brexit scare story expunged.

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Grauniad be like:

ACCELERATED :rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

US election threads have been closed for less out of date commentary but I think in fairness you should provide some context.

We pay more for the Pfizer vaccine than the EU and do have a slower delivery schedule. We are off label prescribing, for emergency use only, the AstraZeneca vaccine developed here, at a dosage that I'm still unsure of the efficacy level is 62%, 70% or 90% based on the data available. (And that was against the old variants.)

As someone desperately keen to get the economy going and the end of lockdown restrictions I'd not yet be counting those chickens.

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I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it. I've always tried to frame it in my head without flags. While the UK obviously has an interest in the outcome - the race to vaccination is obviously the new Operation Moonshot - however contract law is contract law. And while few (none?) of us are experts in contract law it doesn't appear that the EU were told that UK supplies came first and theirs second. The UK contract is indicated to suggest to that effect, however that's irrelevant if as the EU are suggesting that AZ are in breach of contract with them.

It looks like AZ will have to breach a contract somewhere as the terms of neither contract can be fulfilled in the context of sub-optimal production performance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My but you’ve been awfully quiet these past 2 days while the EU vaccine procurement programme has unravelled so spectacularly. And now here you are desperately trying to argue that black is white, day is night and that we are are somehow, contrary to the opinion of almost everyone, messing things up.

A couple of things that have been lost in the noise over the last day or two that are worth picking out here:

First, in the La Repubblica interview with Pascal Soirot, he was extremely supportive of the long-gap dose strategy presently being followed in the UK - for both the Pfizer and the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccines. He believes that the data shows that the first dose of either vaccine eliminates serious disease in virtually 100% of cases. Let’s say that again: a near-100% elimination of serious disease. That is a prize worth having. He also states that with the AstraZeneca vaccine there is reason to believe the longer gap actually improves the rate at which it prevents any disease at all, though obviously there isn’t conclusive data for that yet.

Second, there is a suggestion the UK has paid more for vaccines. And so what if we have? We have a pretty significant problem with spread of the virus in this country, not all of which can be put down to government policy. If we can’t force people to stop infecting each other by social means, then the vaccine is our only major weapon. Every serious disease prevented is tens of thousands of £££s saved in intensive care costs. I bet, eventually, paying even double per vaccine dose that in the case of Oxford-AstraZeneca is maybe £3 per person, will be proven to have been a canny investment indeed.

Related to the second point, we are now seeing in the UK the establishment and improvement of some of the world’s leading life sciences capability, paid for by that up-front government investment and higher per-shot vaccine price, and as covid is not going away any time soon, that is a very good place for British science and industry to be.

The facts on the ground are that we are light years ahead of almost every country on earth with our vaccination programme, and particularly light years ahead of any European nation, because they all put their faith in a slow, bureaucratic process that was more interested in saving pennies than lives. There, but for the grace of Brexit, might have gone us.

Re: Coronavirus
 

LOL - just seen this said:-

:rofl:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Far from.

Pascal Soirot says this but does the peer-reviewed scientific data say it? If it does, fantastic. If it proves to be true, fantastic.

However, as I indicated previously a CEO batting for their product isn't new or necessarily representative of real world performance. Statements around evidence can often be selectively framed.

I didn't say there was a problem with paying more I was simply framing the discussion around the article posted by Pierre. As Israel are trying to demonstrate paying a hefty price premium for the top product in the marketplace and getting it out there ASAP reaps should yield significant rewards.

As you rightly say the costs per vaccine, for any vaccine, are tiny compared to the ongoing economic costs in any case.

As I say the race to herd immunity is a marathon, not a sprint. There's a lot we don't know about vaccine effectiveness in known mutations, let alone those unknown or still to happen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

All this nationalism crap again. Humanity is on one side, the virus on the other. Together we win, divided we lose.Our choice.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ach it's just Mick stuck in 2016. One decision you made in 2016 makes every future opinion absolutely irrelevant. God save the queen. :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the EU missed that email. Maybe phone them and ask them to check their spam folder.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bark up the corrupted EU tree - not mine, I am glad I live in a country that can maximise vaccination rollout while the corrupted EU stamps it's feet because it doesn't like UK Success. :dozey:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Success= the highest no of deaths in Europe, not really...

We really are in this together, as some pratt called Cameron said. Doesn't matter in which country you live.

Re: Coronavirus
 

EU has managed to unite the DUP and Sinn Fein. Both parties now feel EU's initiation in implementing Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol that has now seen after just 29 days since the end of the Brexit transition period, a hard border on the Island of Ireland, and it is a grave error that is dealing with people's lives.

---------- Post added at 21:07 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

Anyone asked what U.S President Joe Biden has said on the EU's stance on potentially wrecking the Good Friday Agreement, asking for a friend... ???

Re: Coronavirus
 

Of course we have a slower delivery schedule.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1611954553

Re: Coronavirus
 

I specifically said the Pfizer vaccine., not all vaccines. The fact we've invested in the AZ one and produce it here removes this from the equation, but that wasn't the point of the article - although the article (perhaps selectively) omitted this possibility.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We didn't start rolling out the AZ vaccine until Jan 4th and were already ahead of all but Denmark with the Pfitzer vaccine.

Try again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's becoming very clear tonight - The European Commission blindsided the British AND Irish govts on Article 16. So much for their "Respect Dublin" approach.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU and the UK need to behave like grown ups. We've dragged them down to our level, which means we all lose.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could be right.

https://www.independent.ie/news/taoi...-40028406.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

The UK government has done absolutely nothing, except make the bare minimum responses to specific questions about UK vaccine supply that have arisen purely because the EU is desperately trying to deflect attention from the mess it’s made.

It’s a stretch, even for you, to identify British mischief behind the yields of Pfizer and AstraZeneca factories in Europe, the time it took the EU to sign any vaccine deals, who the EU signed deals with and how much it bought.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: EU back peddle reasoning behind action to invoke Article 16 of N. Ireland Protocol, an EU source says decision has been an oversight.

---------- Post added at 22:03 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

A No10 spokesman said: ‘The Prime Minister spoke to EU Commission president Ursula Von Der Leyen this evening.’

‘He expressed his grave concerns about the potential impact which the steps the EU has taken today on vaccine exports could have.’

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looks like Dublin hit the roof about it. Some others within the EU - especially Barnier - seem to have been angry as well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Article 16 has been WITHDRAWN by the EU. Statement shortly

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still should be borne in mind that the EU was all too prepared to take this illegal action.

Re: Coronavirus
 

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-e...urces-12202835

U-Turn if you want to....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Link
And yet the EU is trying to block that for the UK.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now, now. The forum standard is to credit Britain for any such change.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Give the EU some credit. For about 2 hours this evening the DUP and Sinn Feinn were in complete agreement on something.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If I can borrow a spare Cable Forum tin hat for a minute, I would suggest that the EU has been infiltrated by Ultra Brexiters who are doing an amazing job in distracting the British public from seeing the genuine difficulties that many in British business are facing in trading with the EU post Brexit.

The EU's actions are gold dust for EU detractors. You couldn't make this situation up for Yes Minister, it wouldn't leave the cutting room floor.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still sucking up to the EU, my god, you’re so pathetic Andrew.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You fail to see the humour in my post and to ignore my track record on this issue. I am not a disgrace.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh I’m sorry. I must have forgot to laugh at an entity, the corrupted EU, who scorned us for wanting to put an hard border on the Island of Ireland, were the ones to do just that tonight and then realise their feckup when Dublin just had to remind them they’re still there. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

The British desperation for the EU to fail is my main reason for scepticism on the 62/70/90% effective AstraZeneca vaccine.

If you'd a product, even 30% effective, you'd punt it out the door quickly under emergency use authorisation and see what happened after. It's almost as if we are the big 65+ test the world is waiting on. If it doesn't work blame mutant strains.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I can’t be desperate for something to fail when it is already a failing entity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU have made themselves look fools, even to their own members.

You can bet that 'mishap' is not the word used privately. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...i-EU-plot.html

A story that really needs re-telling, repeatedly.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The EU is guilty of judging the UK based on their own standards. The UK is far too honourable to want to hijack vaccine meant for the EU or anybody else.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

This.........^ ^

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apology accepted. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The BBC’s chief regime apologist for the EU, Katya Adler, has twisted the knife in the European Commission’s twitching body today, after trying, and failing, to get any of her usual friendly rent-une-quote contacts to say anything remotely nice about it. That’s how bad this was.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55872763

Re: Coronavirus
 

For all the arguing over the end of the peace process, if a hard border had been put in place, I wonder which side(UK or Irish) the IRA would've attacked, if the EU regulation had actually been carried out.

Re: Coronavirus
 

My joke was that the EU's behaviour was so bad that a tin foil hat-wearing conspiracy theorist might suggest that it had been infiltrated by Brexiters determined to bring it down as the EU couldn't have played it any worse.

Anyway, moving on, there's a good article in Sky News today about the government's procurement of vaccinations. Worth reading in full but one snippet here on how and why Matt Hancock over-ruled his officials on the Oxford vaccine. Spoiler: Matt Hancock seems to have called it right!
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...upply-12204044

Re: Coronavirus
 

who's nick Hancock

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D They Think it's all over. Thanks, duly corrected.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Andrew Marr reporting that Boris rang von der lying and told her she was endangering the lives of millions of British pensioners who need a second dose of vaccine, that seems to have opened her eyes to what she was doing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This will put the cat amongst the pigeons. What the EU did with the vaccine rollout and triggering Article 16, was a move no different to something out of a Nazi German hand book.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Imagine what von der loony would have done with an Eu army at her disposal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

No argument from me. Lots of commentary about EU’s move being very Trumpian.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Captain Sir Tom Moore in hospital with Coronavirus. :(

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...virus-12204729

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not yet vaccinated, because he has been undergoing treatment for pneumonia :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's not good, I hope the old fella can fight it off.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Get well soon Sir Tom

Re: Coronavirus
 

'Godwin's Law' proved right again? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not necessarily.

Godwin's law itself can be applied mistakenly, a fallacy by miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by my argument are actually appropriate, which in this case - against the EU, they are. Godwin's law also precludes that a thread or topic is coming to an abrupt end, this one most certainly isn't. So your claim is false.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you cant be vaccinated if your being treated for pneumonia ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

For Pneumonia, Sir Tom will be on strong Antibiotics. So taking both the vaccine and certain Antibiotics, may clash and the patient may be at more harm. It’s classed in the medical world as Contraindications.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Vaccines are effectively fake infections. If the immune system is being currently stressed by a real infection, you can't stress it even more with a vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Someone predicted earlier that fake vaccine documents would be created if people can't fly etc without proof of having had the vaccine.

According to this evening's BBC news, these are now available online.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pity we dont live on the Isle of Man, they have scrapped all lockdown and distancing today.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We wouldn’t all fit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:D

The cases graph is looking better;

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...chmentid=28892

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m an eternal optimist.

We’ll be done by June, and Covid, and all it’s variants, will be wrapped up into the annual flu jab and that’ll be it.

I know over 100,000 people have died, and that is terrible

But the reality is that is 99.2%of people, in the U.K., survive this, and that with vaccines and natural immunity, this will become just part of the annual flu vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What strikes me as odd, is that Sir Tom would appear not to have had the pneumonia vaccine. A friend had theirs not long after getting their flu jab.

Re: Coronavirus
 

depends what has caused the pneumonia, if it has been caused by a bacterial infection as opposed to viral infection then a vaccine wouldn't help.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A scathing summary of last week’s Euro-shenanigans, from the BBC of all places.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pneumonia is a disease symptom rather than a disease in itself. Most cases of pneumonia are bacterial and half of those cases are caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae. It's that bacterium that the vaccine is for but even then, it's only 41% effective so you're kind of riding the odds here.

There's lots of other causes of pneumonia including virus, fungi, combinations of infectious agents and non-infectious causes. Check photos of Tom Moore, he either is or was a smoker by the look of his teeth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

They'd certainly have to build a bigger jail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eur...f-man-55758764
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-eur...f-man-54360825

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's a bit harder for us to quarantine everyone else close borders as New Zealand did (does) because we have so much freight arriving by road/ferry.
Do we have some scheme of driver handover or just bring over the trailer and hook up to UK unit this side? (Would have advantage of no left hand units here but really hard to implement.)