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-   -   Post-Brexit Thread (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33703180)

1andrew1 13-12-2016 21:18
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
More evidence that 2017 will be a crucial year for Brexit.

Urgent Brexit deal needed to avert banking job losses, peers to warn
Tens of thousands of banking jobs could be lost to continental Europe starting from next year if ministers do not agree a transitional deal with the EU, a Lords report on financial services after Brexit is expected to warn.

Peers on the committee, due to report on Thursday, have been struck by the urgent need for financial institutions make decisions on their location because they cannot wait until 2019 to find out if they can access the single market from London.

The committee has been given a range of estimates of the likely job losses across the financial services sector including a claim from Ernst and Young commissioned by the London Stock Exchange that 200,000 UK jobs are at stake.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-peers-to-warn

papa smurf 13-12-2016 21:24
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
now its the Russians :dunce:

Brexit supporters ridicule claim of Remoaner MP Ben Bradshaw that Russian hackers 'probably' swayed the EU referendum

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4SkfKWr7z
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Kursk 13-12-2016 21:29
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
John Redwood was on the box today. He said he didn't know why Brexit was going to take so long to 'negotiate', after all, he said, Czechoslovakia split into 2 sovereign states in 1993 without too much hoo-ha.

If 2 Countries were created without procrastination, why will it take so long simply for us to leave a club?

RizzyKing 13-12-2016 22:04
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Because it's a club your not meant to leave and one that's very unhappy with anyone that doesn't share its objectives totally and utterly.

Kursk 13-12-2016 22:09
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35875646)
Because it's a club your not meant to leave and one that's very unhappy with anyone that doesn't share its objectives totally and utterly.
Indeed. You know, thinking about it I'd say we're being fed a line to stretch it out for as long as is possible.

Here's a plan: commit our 'negotiation plan' to paper just as the remoaners want and invoke A 50 on March 1. On March 2 slap the prepared plan on the desk and tell the EU, that's not our negotiating position, its our requirement.

No buggering around. There's no need for it. We are being hoodwinked.

Osem 13-12-2016 22:29
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Next time we have an election, the result of which is a small majority for one side or the other, I wonder if the remainers will demand that the resulting Govt. should pay heed to what those who didn't vote for them want and change their policies accordingly.

Kursk 13-12-2016 22:38
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35875657)
Next time we have an election, the result of which is a small majority for one side or the other, I wonder if the remainers will demand that the resulting Govt. should pay heed to what those who didn't vote for them want and change their policies accordingly.
I'm pretty confident that Gina and the Hairdressers will win X Factor in that year and release a cover of Alice Cooper's 'Elected' as a campaign protest :p:.

papa smurf 13-12-2016 22:43
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35875657)
Next time we have an election, the result of which is a small majority for one side or the other, I wonder if the remainers will demand that the resulting Govt. should pay heed to what those who didn't vote for them want and change their policies accordingly.
wouldn't that be something -a green party government reopening coal mines and building coal fired power stations just to appease climate change deniers

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:40 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35875658)
I'm pretty confident that Gina and the Hairdressers will win X Factor in that year and release a cover of Alice Cooper's 'Elected' as a campaign protest :p:.
they have the xmas single out this year -Bloxit baby one more time - it sold 3 copies to their fans ;)

Kursk 13-12-2016 22:56
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875660)
- it sold 3 copies to their fans ;)
Namely, Gina Miller, Deir Dos Santos and Grahame Pigney :p:

papa smurf 13-12-2016 23:00
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35875665)
Namely, Gina Miller, Deir Dos Santos and Grahame Pigney :p:
we mustn't judge ;)

Kursk 13-12-2016 23:06
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875667)
we mustn't judge ;)
We'd need wigs, garters and supremeness for that. Hang on, you have all those things..:D

TheDaddy 14-12-2016 02:24
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35875669)
We'd need wigs, garters and supremeness for that. Hang on, you have all those things..:D
I've got a black cap to

TheDaddy 14-12-2016 08:43
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Far reaching consequences from brexit down Southend way

http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/...ut-of-control/

heero_yuy 14-12-2016 09:56
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35875628)
Peers on the committee, due to report on Thursday, have been struck by the urgent need for financial institutions make decisions on their location because they cannot wait until 2019 to find out if they can access the single market from London.
It's quite simple, you tell the banks that if they relocate to Europe then the UK will not bail any of them out when they next get into trouble. They'll have to go cap-in-hand to their Brussels masters.

1andrew1 14-12-2016 12:44
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
More evidence of the Government's non-plan is revealed.

"Big Brexit decisions 'delayed until next year'
Important decisions on Brexit have been shelved until next year amid reports that key members of the Cabinet committee dealing with the issue are split on what to do, according to The Times.

The newspaper reports that decisions are expected to start being made before Article 50 is triggered in March, although some issues such as the customs union may be deferred until beyond then.

The European Union Exit and Trade committee meets every fortnight and has been given great influence by Theresa May.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...y-corbyn-live/

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35875711)
It's quite simple, you tell the banks that if they relocate to Europe then the UK will not bail any of them out when they next get into trouble. They'll have to go cap-in-hand to their Brussels masters.
These aren't British banks so would not be bailed out by the UK anyway.

Osem 14-12-2016 13:18
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Big decisions take time - I bet that if the PM started making such announcements now portions of the media would be banging on about how vitally important issues were being rushed through and more legal challenges would be mounted to slow it all down again. This is uncharted and extremely complex territory so who seriously expected anything other than for it to take time - probably a good deal more time than anyone envisaged. Such is the nature of momentous changes such as this.

The world's banks are so intertwined that we have no idea how much exposure British banks have to their foreign owned counterparts. When big EU banks start failing again there will be serious repercussions for our banks, the only issue is whether these problems will be lesser or greater and I reckon being inside the EU guarantees the latter.

1andrew1 14-12-2016 13:27
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Brexit: 40% of US firms with British offices are considering relocating to the EU
Nearly 40 per cent of US businesses with a base in the UK say they are considering moving elsewhere in the EU because of Brexit, according to a report, warning that the vote to leave could also hit trade relations between Britain and America.

The survey by international law firm Gowling WLG also found that two-thirds of the 533 US firms polled said the UK’s vote to the leave the EU is already impacting investments choices in the country.

Food and beverage, life sciences and financial services firms were most likely to consider relocating whilst aerospace firms were the least likely, the survey has found.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7473251.html

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35875741)
Big decisions take time - I bet that if the PM started making such announcements now portions of the media would be banging on about how vitally important issues were being rushed through and more legal challenges would be mounted to slow it all down again. This is uncharted and extremely complex territory so who seriously expected anything other than for it to take time - probably a good deal more time than anyone envisaged. Such is the nature of momentous changes such as this.

The world's banks are so intertwined that we have no idea how much exposure British banks have to their foreign owned counterparts. When big EU banks start failing again there will be serious repercussions for our banks, the only issue is whether these problems will be lesser or greater and I reckon being inside the EU guarantees the latter.
I agree it's important to do it right than do it quickly. That's a point I've been trying to make to those on this forum who wanted us to invoke Article 50 immediately. However, the article suggests that there are divisions holding up a firm plan, let's hope they sort matters out over a few Chrimbo sherries. :)

Osem 14-12-2016 13:44
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Firms 'considering moving' - so what? Firms consider all sorts of things because they have to including scenarios which may never happen. I'd have thought due diligence would require executives to consider all factors which might affect their interests but considering them doesn't mean they're going to change anything. These things aren't mutually exclusive either so they might just as well be considering moving operations to the UK to avoid Trump's tax plans over there. Yes, there may well be firms which move operations to the EU/elsewhere and there'll be others which head in the other direction because they'll find doing business in the UK a lot cheaper and simpler.

Hugh 14-12-2016 14:24
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35875711)
It's quite simple, you tell the banks that if they relocate to Europe then the UK will not bail any of them out when they next get into trouble. They'll have to go cap-in-hand to their Brussels masters.
Most of the banks they are discussing are not UK-based, so were not bailed out by HMG...

The major recipients of the bail-out in the UK were Lloyds and RBS.

1andrew1 14-12-2016 14:36
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35875752)
Most of the banks they are discussing are not UK-based, so were not bailed out by HMG...

The major recipients of the bail-out in the UK were Lloyds and RBS.
Yes. The banks in the referenced article are multinational investment banks.

The bailed out British banks Lloyds Banking Group, RBS, Bradford & Bingley and Northern Rock were primarily retail banks although RBS has a diminishing investment banking arm.

Kursk 14-12-2016 14:57
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35875687)
I've got a black cap to
Promisingly kinky; papa wants to know if you have thigh-high rubber boots to go with it you little minx :p:

papa smurf 14-12-2016 18:20
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35875742)
Brexit: 40% of US firms with British offices are considering relocating to the EU
Nearly 40 per cent of US businesses with a base in the UK say they are considering moving elsewhere in the EU because of Brexit, according to a report, warning that the vote to leave could also hit trade relations between Britain and America.

The survey by international law firm Gowling WLG also found that two-thirds of the 533 US firms polled said the UK’s vote to the leave the EU is already impacting investments choices in the country.

Food and beverage, life sciences and financial services firms were most likely to consider relocating whilst aerospace firms were the least likely, the survey has found.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7473251.html

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 ----------


I agree it's important to do it right than do it quickly. That's a point I've been trying to make to those on this forum who wanted us to invoke Article 50 immediately. However, the article suggests that there are divisions holding up a firm plan, let's hope they sort matters out over a few Chrimbo sherries. :)
Remain moaners starting to actively DAMAGE UK economy with lies and fear-mongering

REMAINERS are "willing economic hardship" on Britain as they refuse to accept the public's decision to leave the European Union, experts say.

Politicians, campaigners and Europhiles are hoping to overturn the referendum result - and are doing so by damaging chances of Brexit success, a top economist has suggested.

In spurious survey after spurious survey and unfounded pronouncement after unfounded pronouncement politicians who didn’t like the Brexit result and businesses and banks with vested interests are trash-talking Britain and hoping for economic failure.

And some economists fear is starting to work.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743...ot-court-cases

Hugh 14-12-2016 18:51
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Or, Brexiteers fearing sub-optimal results are setting up a straw man scapegoat in advance....

papa smurf 14-12-2016 18:53
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35875796)
Or, Brexiteers fearing sub-optimal results are setting up a straw man scapegoat in advance....
no its
Remain moaners starting to actively DAMAGE UK economy with lies and fear-mongering

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743...ot-court-cases

denphone 14-12-2016 19:03
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
You need to stop believing everything you read papa.;)

martyh 14-12-2016 20:12
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875797)
no its
Remain moaners starting to actively DAMAGE UK economy with lies and fear-mongering

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743...ot-court-cases
The fact that you believe that rubbish speaks volumes about you ,i've just read that article and it simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever

Like this bit for instance

Quote:
Both Miller and Maugham are accused of "actively trying to overturn the referendum result" with their cases suggesting Theresa May does not have the right to trigger Article 50 to begin proceedings to break from Europe.

pip08456 14-12-2016 20:25
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35875798)
You need to stop believing everything you read papa.;)
You'd better have a read of this den then decide if remainers are attempting to do what the Express has published, not that I like the rag.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdf

The Irish courts can't do a thing as it would mean a change to the Treaty of Lisbon.

This part is is significant enough to note.

Quote:
Relevant international law provisions cannot be applied
in parallel to Article 50 TEU Rather, the procedure and consequences of a withdrawal from the EU are now governed by EU law and no recourse to international law is possible.
That corrupt Euro club considers itself above International Law. Isn't that what the Nazis did?

papa smurf 14-12-2016 21:05
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875803)
The fact that you believe that rubbish speaks volumes about you ,i've just read that article and it simply doesn't make any sense whatsoever

Like this bit for instance
how is it my fault you don't understand what your reading :shrug:

and might i add in polite society it is considered rude to shoot the messenger.

denphone 14-12-2016 21:15
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875805)
You'd better have a read of this den then decide if remainers are attempting to do what the Express has published, not that I like the rag.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat...)577971_EN.pdf

The Irish courts can't do a thing as it would mean a change to the Treaty of Lisbon.

This part is is significant enough to note.



That corrupt Euro club considers itself above International Law. Isn't that what the Nazis did?
Personally pip l think the vast majority of remainers have accepted the result and just want the Government to negotiate a fair and reasonable deal that the country will be happy with as the problem with vast parts of the British media is they exaggerate nearly everything and make a lot of stuff up instead of coming out with rational and intelligent constructive pieces of journalism which sadly is becoming increasingly rare IMO.

martyh 14-12-2016 21:37
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875808)
how is it my fault you don't understand what your reading :shrug:

and might i add in polite society it is considered rude to shoot the messenger.
If you don't want shooting stop posting rubbish like that ,your giving Brexit a bad name

pip08456 14-12-2016 21:48
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35875810)
Personally pip l think the vast majority of remainers have accepted the result and just want the Government to negotiate a fair and reasonable deal that the country will be happy with as the problem with vast parts of the British media is they exaggerate nearly everything and make a lot of stuff up instead of coming out with rational and intelligent constructive pieces of journalism which sadly is becoming increasingly rare IMO.
If that is the case then why do these court challenges keep popping up?

OK parliament will now get a vote on A50 as that's the way the Supreme court is heading.

Why involve the Irish Courts ffs??

I posted a link to it acouple of days ago and there was no comment, suddenly because it appears in the Express and someone posted that here you are.

denphone 14-12-2016 21:58
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875817)
If that is the case then why do these court challenges keep popping up?

OK parliament will now get a vote on A50 as that's the way the Supreme court is heading.

Why involve the Irish Courts ffs??

I posted a link to it acouple of days ago and there was no comment, suddenly because it appears in the Express and someone posted that here you are.
Personally l think the court challenges are a total utter waste of time but l do believe parliament should get the vote on triggering A50 as it should have been that way to start with.

martyh 14-12-2016 22:11
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875817)
If that is the case then why do these court challenges keep popping up?

OK parliament will now get a vote on A50 as that's the way the Supreme court is heading.

Why involve the Irish Courts ffs??

I posted a link to it acouple of days ago and there was no comment, suddenly because it appears in the Express and someone posted that here you are.
The Express has printed outright lies in a bid to scare people into thinking that Brexit will be overturned when in fact neither case is trying to overturn the vote .
The biggest problem is that people like Papa are soaking it all up like a sponge and spreading that crap around

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875817)

Why involve the Irish Courts ffs??
Quote:
He has had to go through the Irish courts because UK judges have made every effort to keep the article 50 appeal out of the hands of European judges.

The case in Dublin will be brought against the Irish state, the EU council and the European commission. It is likely to be brought in the name of MEPs
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...ess-article-50

pip08456 14-12-2016 23:09
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875819)
The Express has printed outright lies in a bid to scare people into thinking that Brexit will be overturned when in fact neither case is trying to overturn the vote .
The biggest problem is that people like Papa are soaking it all up like a sponge and spreading that crap around

---------- Post added at 21:11 ---------- Previous post was at 21:06 ----------





https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...ess-article-50
I don't know why you posted that link for me, I read the article 5 days ago and posted the self same link in this tread 5 days ago.

However let's discuss the article and the court case.

It's looking for crowdfunding for a case
Quote:
The case in Dublin will be brought against the Irish state, the EU council and the European commission. It is likely to be brought in the name of MEPs.
(my bold)

On what basis?

Quote:
The claimants will argue that they suffer a prospective deprivation of their rights associated with these breaches and that to resolve these disputes it will be necessary to refer these questions to the court of justice of the European Union.
(again my bold).

What possible right do MEP's have in regard to a democratic decision made by the country which the Government is attempting to implement?

ianch99 14-12-2016 23:54
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875819)
The Express has printed outright lies in a bid to scare people into thinking that Brexit will be overturned when in fact neither case is trying to overturn the vote .
The biggest problem is that people like Papa are soaking it all up like a sponge and spreading that crap around
These papers as well as alt-right sites like Briebart have long since gone from interpreting the news to making up their own reality. Don't forget, these media outlets posted their own outright lies to try and scare & convince people to Leave.

The post-truth era is well and truly here. Make up a story, pitch it to elicit an emotional response and claim it as the "truth" .. and when anyone questions this "truth", reply with childish name calling.

Meanwhile, reality sails on by.

This reality includes trying to resolve a crisis created by the referendum. The solution involves the whole country working together in the interests of the whole country. Yes, these interests do include the 63% of the electorate who did not vote to Leave.

It is the "Leave at any cost" zealots that pose the real risk to this country's future prosperity. These are the ones that need watching.

The Government's duty to is to get the best deal for the country and if this means Leaving the EU on terms that do not match the alt-right post-truth holy grail then ... tough.

I would rather live in a country determined by common sense and good Governance than one guided by zealous dogma.

pip08456 15-12-2016 00:23
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875826)
These papers as well as alt-right sites like Briebart have long since gone from interpreting the news to making up their own reality. Don't forget, these media outlets posted their own outright lies to try and scare & convince people to Leave.

The post-truth era is well and truly here. Make up a story, pitch it to elicit an emotional response and claim it as the "truth" .. and when anyone questions this "truth", reply with childish name calling.

Meanwhile, reality sails on by.

This reality includes trying to resolve a crisis created by the referendum. The solution involves the whole country working together in the interests of the whole country. Yes, these interests do include the 63% of the electorate who did not vote to Leave.





It is the "Leave at any cost" zealots that pose the real risk to this country's future prosperity. These are the ones that need watching.

The Government's duty to is to get the best deal for the country and if this means Leaving the EU on terms that do not match the alt-right post-truth holy grail then ... tough.

I would rather live in a country determined by common sense and good Governance than one guided by zealous dogma.
I'll trump your 63% of the electorate who did not vote to leave with 79.7% who did not vote to remain.

Try and argue your way out of that one! Please prove my figure wrong as it is based on the same calculation you made for yours.

This is the result that matters not ficticious figures pulled out of the air. (see attatched image)

RizzyKing 15-12-2016 01:19
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
All media be it right, centre or left leaning have long since given up reporting events they all now make stuff up and misrepresent things to suit their own position and agenda. You can nearly feel your IQ dropping reading some of our so called newspapers that's why i stopped buying them over ten years ago.

1andrew1 15-12-2016 01:31
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875819)
The Express has printed outright lies in a bid to scare people into thinking that Brexit will be overturned when in fact neither case is trying to overturn the vote .
The biggest problem is that people like Papa are soaking it all up like a sponge and spreading that crap around
It's sad that people who are gullible enough to believe the Express then go on to perpetuate the paper's attempts to divide the country along the lines of a vote that happened some six months ago - in the paper's squalid attempt to gain more readers.
Wake up Daily Express; we've all moved on! The country has accepted that it's leaving the EU. The fact that the big world outside the Express bubble understands that the Article 50 challenge is about the process of leaving the EU and is not about the decision itself speaks volumes.

martyh 15-12-2016 08:14
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875824)
I don't know why you posted that link for me, I read the article 5 days ago and posted the self same link in this tread 5 days ago.

However let's discuss the article and the court case.
I posted the link to show where i got the quote that answered your question of why it was going through the Irish courts .

Quote:
What possible right do MEP's have in regard to a democratic decision made by the country which the Government is attempting to implement?
They are seeking clarification of law "is A50 irrevocable once invoked " nothing whatsoever to do with the democratic decision the government is trying to implement ,incidentally if A50 is revocable then it means the government can press ahead with no need to go through Parliament.

Quote:
It's looking for crowdfunding for a case
(my bold)
On what basis?

(again my bold).

It matters hugely and has massive consequences ,especially if A50 is deemed to have already been invoked which is the other part of the case .

---------- Post added at 06:59 ---------- Previous post was at 06:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875826)
These papers as well as alt-right sites like Briebart have long since gone from interpreting the news to making up their own reality. Don't forget, these media outlets posted their own outright lies to try and scare & convince people to Leave.

The post-truth era is well and truly here. Make up a story, pitch it to elicit an emotional response and claim it as the "truth" .. and when anyone questions this "truth", reply with childish name calling.

Meanwhile, reality sails on by.

This reality includes trying to resolve a crisis created by the referendum. The solution involves the whole country working together in the interests of the whole country. Yes, these interests do include the 63% of the electorate who did not vote to Leave.

It is the "Leave at any cost" zealots that pose the real risk to this country's future prosperity. These are the ones that need watching.

The Government's duty to is to get the best deal for the country and if this means Leaving the EU on terms that do not match the alt-right post-truth holy grail then ... tough.

I would rather live in a country determined by common sense and good Governance than one guided by zealous dogma.
Excellent post .

---------- Post added at 07:14 ---------- Previous post was at 06:59 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875832)
I'll trump your 63% of the electorate who did not vote to leave with 79.7% who did not vote to remain.

Try and argue your way out of that one! Please prove my figure wrong as it is based on the same calculation you made for yours.

This is the result that matters not ficticious figures pulled out of the air. (see attatched image)
If your going down the route of including non voters in a decision then we may as well start including newly qualified voters by the time A50 is invoked or removing deceased voters from the result .The referendum result was simply a snapshot of public feeling at the time ,it's very possible that by March next year the result would be different .The fact remains though that we are leaving the EU based on a decision made by the electorate in june 2016 but not enacted on until March (or later) of 2017

1andrew1 15-12-2016 09:39
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
This warning was made back in October. I'm hoping things will improve between now and March 2019, but nonetheless it's quite harsh.

Brexit trade deal could take 10 years, says UK's ambassador
"A post-Brexit UK-EU trade deal might take 10 years to finalise and still fail, Britain's ambassador to the EU has privately told the government.
The BBC understands Sir Ivan Rogers warned ministers that the European consensus was that a deal might not be done until the early to mid-2020s.
He also cautioned that an agreement could be rejected ultimately by other EU members' national parliaments."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38324146

As others have said
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875808)
...in polite society it is considered rude to shoot the messenger.
Meanwhile, it's not just the UK Government side that's divided on Brexit:

Brexit turf war breaks out between branches of EU
"MEPs were furious after the Financial Times reported a draft text that nominated the European Commission as the union’s lead negotiator in talks, but gave MEPs no seat at the negotiating table or in key preparatory meetings.
In a shot across the bows of member states, the parliament warned that it may block a deal or indeed open a second track of direct negotiations with London — a nightmare scenario for the EU-27."
https://www.ft.com/content/17f50d7a-...a-2b93a6856354 or Google "Brexit turf war breaks out between branches of EU"

techguyone 15-12-2016 10:05
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Lets not lose sight of whom made up the 2 year 'deal' it wasn't the UK

Anyone would think the EU didn't want anyone to leave and placed unrealistic timescales as an obstacle.

nomadking 15-12-2016 10:26
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
When are people finally going to get the fact that everything is a 2 way thing. As long as we are prepared to play hard ball on issues, then agreements should be easy to arrive at and beneficial to BOTH sides. Just make sure that Corbyn & co aren't in government for a very long time or we are right in it, as they would give away everything and more.

Paying money to the EU is a TAX, as the slogan goes "no taxation without representation". The money is to prop up the EU and nothing to do with trading. There may be administrative type costs for the trading aspects and there would be nothing wrong in paying for those.

1andrew1 15-12-2016 10:45
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Well worth reading this in full, just Google the headline to see what the writer Philip Stephens concludes. It nails some of the paranoia out there.

How Brexit may not mean Brexit
"The risk with referendums, as Margaret Thatcher used to say, is that they become a device for demagogues and dictators: the people have spoken so now they must be silent ever more. The point about liberal democracy is that citizens are offered a chance to change their minds...

The leavers, you might imagine, would be brimming with seasonal good cheer. For some, this is the culmination of a life’s political work. They should be dancing in the streets. Instead, gripped by a fear that verges on paranoia, they see dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway....

The possibility of such scrutiny has provoked uproar among more excitable Brexiters, with the judges condemned as “enemies of the people”. In the manner of authoritarians through the ages, they contend that the rule of law belongs to politicians rather than the courts...."
This is confusing at best for those who took at face value the leavers’ claim to be the champions of parliamentary “sovereignty” against the depredations of Brussels.
https://www.ft.com/content/7b9bd4fc-...a-2b93a6856354

ianch99 15-12-2016 13:00
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875832)
I'll trump your 63% of the electorate who did not vote to leave with 79.7% who did not vote to remain.

Try and argue your way out of that one! Please prove my figure wrong as it is based on the same calculation you made for yours.

This is the result that matters not ficticious figures pulled out of the air. (see attatched image)
The perfect post-truth response:

Quote:
ficticious figures pulled out of the air
when I was quoting facts .. remember those :)

pip08456 15-12-2016 13:50
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875882)
The perfect post-truth response:



when I was quoting facts .. remember those :)
As the remain vote was 48.1% would you mind explaining where you get 63% from?

Ramrod 15-12-2016 14:07
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35875867)
Instead, gripped by a fear that verges on paranoia, they see dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway....
That's because there actually are dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway :(

ianch99 15-12-2016 15:00
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875892)
As the remain vote was 48.1% would you mind explaining where you get 63% from?
If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

pip08456 15-12-2016 15:10
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875902)
If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..
Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.

Kursk 15-12-2016 15:21
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875902)
I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875903)
Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.
May I compliment you on your polite reply. I would have favoured the more concise "eff off einstein" :D

RizzyKing 15-12-2016 15:22
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Acting like there are no people that would happily ignore the referendum if they could is just as ridiculous as the more extreme brexiters there clearly are many in positions to disrupt that don't agree or support the referendum. The EU has become so ingrained in some they honestly cannot fathom a UK out of the EU and would do anything they could to remain within the EU regardless of whether it's best for the UK or not. There are many remain supporters who do not accept that we are leaving and are still hoping for a way to remain despite the referendum.

pip08456 15-12-2016 15:40
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35875906)
May I compliment you on your polite reply. I would have favoured the more concise "eff off einstein" :D
I do try to be polite at all times.

Anyway back to the debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875853)
I posted the link to show where i got the quote that answered your question of why it was going through the Irish courts .
I alredy knew that.

Quote:
They are seeking clarification of law "is A50 irrevocable once invoked " nothing whatsoever to do with the democratic decision the government is trying to implement ,incidentally if A50 is revocable then it means the government can press ahead with no need to go through Parliament.
There is no provision in A50 for it to be revoked.

Article 50(2) is quite clear.
Quote:
A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.


Quote:
It matters hugely and has massive consequences ,especially if A50 is deemed to have already been invoked which is the other part of the case
.

It hasn't, only our intention to invoke it.( I can see where you're going to head with that one).


Quote:
If your going down the route of including non voters in a decision then we may as well start including newly qualified voters by the time A50 is invoked or removing deceased voters from the result .The referendum result was simply a snapshot of public feeling at the time ,it's very possible that by March next year the result would be different .The fact remains though that we are leaving the EU based on a decision made by the electorate in june 2016 but not enacted on until March (or later) of 2017
Isn't that where the 63% came from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875902)
If you look at the site you took your screen shot selection from:

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

You will see:

Leave Vote share 51.9% 17,410,742 VOTES
Remain Vote share 48.1% 16,141,241 VOTES
Electorate 46,501,241

17,410,742 / 46,501,241 = 37.4 % of Electorate voted to Leave

so 62.6% of Electorate did not vote to Leave

I cannot see how these are "ficticious figures pulled out of the air " ..

Osem 15-12-2016 17:51
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35875862)
Lets not lose sight of whom made up the 2 year 'deal' it wasn't the UK

Anyone would think the EU didn't want anyone to leave and placed unrealistic timescales as an obstacle.
Correct.

Now that wouldn't be like them at all would it. :rolleyes:

martyh 15-12-2016 18:18
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875911)
I alredy knew that.
Others may not ,and if you already knew that why pose the question ?

---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875911)

There is no provision in A50 for it to be revoked.

Article 50(2) is quite clear.
There may not be and that may stand but according to A50 we have to notify the EU of our intention to leave ,in law the word intention cannot be interpreted as final or irreversible.The very wording of Article 50 makes provision for the process to be reversed This is worth a read

Quote:
It hasn't, only our intention to invoke it.( I can see where you're going to head with that one).
The argument that it has already been invoked is in my mind a bit spurious .Some legal minds are saying that because the UK has made it perfectly clear to the world in general that we intend to leave the EU then formal notification in writing or whatever the process is unnecessary and we are already in the process of leaving

ianch99 15-12-2016 18:35
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875903)
Use the same calculation to find out how many did not vote to remain.
What no apology for being accused of pulling "ficticious figures pulled out of the air"?

Disappointed but not surprised

papa smurf 15-12-2016 19:05
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
12,949,258 didn't vote either way - i blame Pokemon go .

so a rough calculation add 2 subtract bull x tin foil hat = 12,949,258 fictitious votes

pip08456 15-12-2016 19:22
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35875946)
What no apology for being accused of pulling "ficticious figures pulled out of the air"?

Disappointed but not surprised
I suppose stupid is a s stupid does.

It is ficticious in that it implies 63% did not wish to leave.

The same fiction that 79% didn't want to remain.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875940)
Others may not ,and if you already knew that why pose the question ?

---------- Post added at 17:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:57 ----------



There may not be and that may stand but according to A50 we have to notify the EU of our intention to leave ,in law the word intention cannot be interpreted as final or irreversible.The very wording of Article 50 makes provision for the process to be reversed This is worth a read



The argument that it has already been invoked is in my mind a bit spurious .Some legal minds are saying that because the UK has made it perfectly clear to the world in general that we intend to leave the EU then formal notification in writing or whatever the process is unnecessary and we are already in the process of leaving
The wording of A50 does not make provision for the process to be reversed, I don't need to try and find a way around paywalled links to know this as I have actually read article 50.

What it does provide is the option fror a state to re-apply subject to Article 49.

Article50(5)

Quote:
If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
Article 49
Quote:
Any European State which respects the values referred to in Article 2 and is committed to promoting them may apply to become a member of the Union. The European Parliament and national Parliaments shall be notified of this application. The applicant State shall address its application to the Council, which shall act unanimously after consulting the Commission and after receiving the assent of the European Parliament, which shall act by an absolute majority of its component members. The conditions of admission and the adjustments to the Treaties on which the Union is founded, which such admission entails, shall be the subject of an agreement between the Member States and the applicant State. This agreement shall be submitted for ratification by all the contracting States in accordance with their respective constitutional requirements. The conditions of eligibility agreed upon by the European Council shall be taken into account.
Article 2 (1)

Quote:
When the Treaties confer on the Union exclusive competence in a specific area, only the Union may legislate and adopt legally binding acts, the Member States being able to do so themselves only if so empowered by the Union or for the implementation of acts of the Union.
Be careful what you wish for.

I suppose I'd better post a non paywalled fully google searchable link for those who may doubt my quotes from the Lisbon Treaty.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the...article-2.html

You can find all the other Articles from that starting point, they even provide forward and back buttons so you can go through all the articles.

Kursk 15-12-2016 20:00
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875950)
12,949,258 didn't vote either way - i blame Pokemon go .

so a rough calculation add 2 subtract bull x tin foil hat = 12,949,258 fictitious votes
Hmm, we're not taking these percentages seriously enough. I wonder what percentage of the electorate of 46,501,241 like marmite and what percentage don't? We need facts. Also, how many unborn babies would vote remain if we string out our extraction for long enough? And another thing, who is that masked man with Tonto?

I'm wavering now I realise I voted leave without knowing anything :rolleyes:.

papa smurf 15-12-2016 20:08
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35875969)
Hmm, we're not taking these percentages seriously enough. I wonder what percentage of the electorate of 46,501,241 like marmite and what percentage don't? We need facts. Also, how many unborn babies would vote remain if we string out our extraction for long enough? And another thing, who is that masked man with Tonto?

I'm wavering now I realise I voted leave without knowing anything :rolleyes:.
don't look at me i'm " giving brexit a bad name" :sniper:

martyh 15-12-2016 21:43
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875951)
I suppose stupid is a s stupid does.

It is ficticious in that it implies 63% did not wish to leave.

The same fiction that 79% didn't want to remain.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------



The wording of A50 does not make provision for the process to be reversed, I don't need to try and find a way around paywalled links to know this as I have actually read article 50.

What it does provide is the option fror a state to re-apply subject to Article 49.

Article50(5)



Article 49


Article 2 (1)



Be careful what you wish for.

I suppose I'd better post a non paywalled fully google searchable link for those who may doubt my quotes from the Lisbon Treaty.

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the...article-2.html

You can find all the other Articles from that starting point, they even provide forward and back buttons so you can go through all the articles.

From the FT article i linked to ,fully searchable and non paywalled

Quote:
First, as everyone agrees, the decision to invoke Article 50 is a unilateral act that does not depend on what other member states think or do. The sole condition is that the interested state must act “in accordance with its own constitutional requirements”.

Second, the Article 50 procedure provides for notification by the interested state only of its “intention” to leave. Formal notification of that intention would be made to the European Council, comprising the heads of government of the other 27 member states. In law, the word “intention” cannot be interpreted as a final and irreversible decision. Legally, you may withdraw an intention, or change it, or transform it into a decision.
Quote:
Let us assume Mrs May invokes Article 50 on January 1 2017. Imagine that, one year later, the UK changes its mind, for whatever reason. This could be after a big political event such as the election of a new government, a new referendum or second thoughts about the decision to leave.Nothing in Article 50 would then prevent the UK from deciding, in conformity with its constitutional requirements, to withdraw its unilateral “intention”. In legal terms, this would stop the two-year clock, removing the possibility that Brexit would occur automatically after these two years. Paragraph 5 of Article 50 confirms this interpretation: an ex EU member state can be a candidate to rejoin but only after having withdrawn. If the intention to leave was withdrawn, the process would be interrupted and the status quo ante would prevail. The UK would still be in the club.

Even after triggering Article 50 and notifying the EU of its intention to leave, there is no legal obstacle to the UK changing its mind, in accordance with its constitutional requirements.
The writer, a former director-general of the Council of the European Union’s Legal Service, is author of ‘If the UK Votes to Leave’


Google "can uk change its mind on Article 50"

pip08456 15-12-2016 22:10
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Article 50 is quite specific.

Quote:
A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

Osem 15-12-2016 22:43
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
That's bloody unions for you! ;)

martyh 15-12-2016 23:11
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35875990)
Article 50 is quite specific.
yes it is....sort of anyway

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements

and as such according to our own laws it must be reversible ,this is not simply my opinion ,this is the opinion of may legal experts both from our own judiciary and that of the EU courts and will very shortly be tested in court .The government need to be clear on the law and the options open to them because they are acting for the whole of the country ,In 1 or 2yrs time circumstances may mean the best decision is to reverse the process for the betterment of the country ,no one knows and that is why the government should have all the facts at hand

1andrew1 15-12-2016 23:28
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35875896)
That's because there actually are dark plots and dastardly conspiracies in every doorway :(
I trust you're joking. :)

pip08456 15-12-2016 23:33
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35875998)
yes it is....sort of anyway

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements

and as such according to our own laws it must be reversible ,this is not simply my opinion ,this is the opinion of may legal experts both from our own judiciary and that of the EU courts and will very shortly be tested in court .The government need to be clear on the law and the options open to them because they are acting for the whole of the country ,In 1 or 2yrs time circumstances may mean the best decision is to reverse the process for the betterment of the country ,no one knows and that is why the government should have all the facts at hand
The key words are "may decide". Once it has then EU law take over. Once a member state has invoked A50 having decided to do so "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" then A50(2) comes into effect and must be concluded.

No grey areas, not doubt. If it contravened UK law why is it being taken to Ireland?

Kursk 16-12-2016 00:38
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35875970)
don't look at me i'm " giving brexit a bad name" :sniper:
Quote:
Shot through the heart
And you're to blame
Darlin'
You give brexit a bad name
Think I'll be calling you Papa Bon Jovi from now on :D.

martyh 16-12-2016 08:07
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35876003)
The key words are "may decide". Once it has then EU law take over. Once a member state has invoked A50 having decided to do so "in accordance with its own constitutional requirements" then A50(2) comes into effect and must be concluded.

No grey areas, not doubt. If it contravened UK law why is it being taken to Ireland?
There is plenty of doubt and masses of grey areas that's why people are seeking clarification through the courts .They are using Irish courts because UK courts are doing their best to keep any cases away from the European courts ,that was explained fully in the link you provided days ago and i repeatedly supplied yesterday ,maybe actually reading them is the way to go

TheDaddy 16-12-2016 08:12
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Mrs May snubbed

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...ean-Union-snub

No need for them to be rude imo

papa smurf 16-12-2016 08:17
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35876037)
Mrs May snubbed

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...ean-Union-snub

No need for them to be rude imo
the express :shocked: your "giving brexit a bad name" :sniper:

RizzyKing 16-12-2016 09:48
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Well we're not in the club anymore as far as they are concerned so why bother with us till it suits them. Pretty pathetic from a group of politicians it's not as though May created this mess she's just having to deal with as the real cowardly culprit did a runner.

1andrew1 16-12-2016 15:37
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Business leaders want a Brexit plan
"Almost six months have passed since Britain made its momentous decision to leave the EU. And as politicians and the public survey what progress the UK has made in preparations for its departure, one conclusion is impossible to avoid: Theresa May’s government still hasn’t got a plan.
In his appearance before MPs this week, David Davis, Brexit secretary, said a plan would be produced before the UK triggers Article 50 in the spring — but he added that it wouldn’t be published before February and he would not say how detailed the document would be....
What should alarm Mrs May and her ministers at the end of this week is the way in which UK-based companies, uncertain about the future, are taking firm decisions about relocating operations overseas."

The many unanswered questions include:
* Will the UK leave the customs union? (Mr Davis said there are still four options.)
* What kind of immigration controls would Britain impose on EU nationals? (Mr Davis refused to reveal details.)
* Will the UK pay for access to the single market after leaving the EU?

Google the headline for the full article or subscribers can read https://www.ft.com/content/8fcefce8-...2-f57d90f6741a

martyh 16-12-2016 17:42
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876077)
Business leaders want a Brexit plan
"Almost six months have passed since Britain made its momentous decision to leave the EU. And as politicians and the public survey what progress the UK has made in preparations for its departure, one conclusion is impossible to avoid: Theresa May’s government still hasn’t got a plan.
In his appearance before MPs this week, David Davis, Brexit secretary, said a plan would be produced before the UK triggers Article 50 in the spring — but he added that it wouldn’t be published before February and he would not say how detailed the document would be....
What should alarm Mrs May and her ministers at the end of this week is the way in which UK-based companies, uncertain about the future, are taking firm decisions about relocating operations overseas."

The many unanswered questions include:
* Will the UK leave the customs union? (Mr Davis said there are still four options.)
* What kind of immigration controls would Britain impose on EU nationals? (Mr Davis refused to reveal details.)
* Will the UK pay for access to the single market after leaving the EU?

Google the headline for the full article or subscribers can read https://www.ft.com/content/8fcefce8-...2-f57d90f6741a
I can understand where the companies are coming from .They will be making plans for investment now to come to fruition in 2-3 yrs time so they need to know financial details now

1andrew1 16-12-2016 18:10
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35876092)
I can understand where the companies are coming from .They will be making plans for investment now to come to fruition in 2-3 yrs time so they need to know financial details now
The trouble is in the absence of a plan from the British Government, companies will have to do what Lloyds of London is doing and set up some operations within the EU at the cost of British jobs and taxes.

Hugh 16-12-2016 18:13
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876095)
The trouble is in the absence of a plan from the British Government, companies will have to do what Lloyds of London is doing and set up operations within the EU at the cost of British jobs and taxes.
tbf, it's initially a subsidiary office, to mitigate risk.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7476566.html
Quote:
The group will put a proposal before members of the market by February, before the triggering of Article 50.

Mr Nelson, said that the market had decided it needed to act sooner rather than later to protect the 11 per cent of its revenues coming from Europe.

“Insurance is a mobile business,” he said. “In common with other financial institutions, we need to put our plans in place – at least on a precautionary basis,” he added.

1andrew1 16-12-2016 18:33
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35876097)
tbf, it's initially a subsidiary office, to mitigate risk.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7476566.html
Added in a "some" for clarity.

Ramrod 16-12-2016 20:14
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876077)
Business leaders want a Brexit plan
"Almost six months have passed since Britain made its momentous decision to leave the EU. And as politicians and the public survey what progress the UK has made in preparations for its departure, one conclusion is impossible to avoid: Theresa May’s government still hasn’t got a plan.
That they have told us about ;)

ianch99 16-12-2016 20:20
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876095)
The trouble is in the absence of a plan from the British Government, companies will have to do what Lloyds of London is doing and set up some operations within the EU at the cost of British jobs and taxes.
To be fair, this was pointed out (and ridiculed) during the run up to the referendum:

Thousands of banking and insurance jobs for the chop if UK leaves EU, firms warn

Quote:
insurance market Lloyds of London has warned Brexit could put thousands of financiers out of work.

"A material number" of the 34,000 jobs in the London insurance market "may be at risk" if the UK leaves the EU, Lloyds warned.

papa smurf 16-12-2016 20:55
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35876116)
That they have told us about ;)
you really must not try to offer even a single ray of hope its just not the done thing ,think doom /misery /war/ famine/ pestilence.;)

Osem 16-12-2016 21:56
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35876123)
you really must not try to offer even a single ray of hope its just not the done thing ,think doom /misery /war/ famine/ pestilence.;)
Yeah staying in the EU would have been far better, just look at how well things are going over there. :rolleyes:

1andrew1 16-12-2016 23:20
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35876116)
That they have told us about ;)
Are you suggesting that the Government is idly watching by whilst companies spend millions of Pounds investigating EU locations and some are moving staff overseas when it could reveal its plan and prevent this happening?

Ramrod 17-12-2016 00:11
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876137)
Are you suggesting that the Government is idly watching by whilst companies spend millions of Pounds investigating EU locations and some are moving staff overseas when it could reveal its plan and prevent this happening?
Not at all. I'm suggesting that the govt is beavering away in the background to thrash out a good deal with the EU and the rest of the world. Amazingly, the govt doesn't see why it should disclose it's thinking on these matters to you, your fellow remoaners or (more importantly) the EU......who would love to know what we are planning in order to counter it. Again, it's like I'm explaining things to a child.

1andrew1 17-12-2016 00:33
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35876139)
Not at all. I'm suggesting that the govt is beavering away in the background to thrash out a good deal with the EU and the rest of the world. Amazingly, the govt doesn't see why it should disclose it's thinking on these matters to you, your fellow remoaners or (more importantly) the EU......who would love to know what we are planning in order to counter it. Again, it's like I'm explaining things to a child.
Is that your way of saying that the Government doesn't have a plan?

martyh 17-12-2016 08:08
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35876139)
Not at all. I'm suggesting that the govt is beavering away in the background to thrash out a good deal with the EU and the rest of the world. Amazingly, the govt doesn't see why it should disclose it's thinking on these matters to you, your fellow remoaners or (more importantly) the EU......who would love to know what we are planning in order to counter it. Again, it's like I'm explaining things to a child.
Why on earth would the EU want to counter it ? .The government need to start releasing details to try and maintain some confidence that they actually know what they are doing .By the time they do release details there won't be any one left to release them to :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 07:08 ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35876037)
Mrs May snubbed

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...ean-Union-snub

No need for them to be rude imo
They aren't ,the 27 nations where going to discuss Brexit at the dinner and obviously the UK cannot be present because we haven't officially told the EU we are leaving ,also May doesn't invite EU leaders when she discusses Brexit with other nations outside of the EU .There will be plenty of talks and dinners that May won't be invited to over the next few years

TheDaddy 17-12-2016 08:17
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35876139)
Not at all. I'm suggesting that the govt is beavering away in the background to thrash out a good deal with the EU and the rest of the world. Amazingly, the govt doesn't see why it should disclose it's thinking on these matters to you, your fellow remoaners or (more importantly) the EU......who would love to know what we are planning in order to counter it. Again, it's like I'm explaining things to a child.
I'd imagine they already know all the options, it's not that hard to work out, especially when you consider they have handled the accession of all those new member states, put very simplistically all they have to look at is reversing the process and the hurdles they overcame then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35876158)
Why on earth would the EU want to counter it ? .The government need to start releasing details to try and maintain some confidence that they actually know what they are doing .By the time they do release details there won't be any one left to release them to :rolleyes:
Exactly, besides if these attitudes continue we might as well give up now, it's not a war it's negotiations and if we don't tone down the rhetoric no one will get a good deal.

---------- Post added at 07:17 ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35876158)
Why on earth would the EU want to counter it ? .The government need to start releasing details to try and maintain some confidence that they actually know what they are doing .By the time they do release details there won't be any one left to release them to :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 07:08 ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 ----------



They aren't ,the 27 nations where going to discuss Brexit at the dinner and obviously the UK cannot be present because we haven't officially told the EU we are leaving ,also May doesn't invite EU leaders when she discusses Brexit with other nations outside of the EU .There will be plenty of talks and dinners that May won't be invited to over the next few years
They weren't having dinner when they ignored her, they're all around her hugging each other and not talking to her, poor Mrs May, I hope her feelings weren't hurt

heero_yuy 17-12-2016 11:50
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
BUDGET supermarket chain Lidl is to create 5,000 jobs in London and invest £70m in a new UK headquarters in the capital as it reaffirms its commitment to post-Brexit Britain.

The German chain said the jobs are part of plans to open nearly 250 new stores in London as it pushes ahead with a three-year UK investment plan worth £1.5bn.
Linky

More bad news for the remoaners.

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Meanwhile the banks that the remoaners are saying we need to keep:

Quote:
BIG foreign banks paid an average corporation tax rate of just six per cent in the UK last year – despite making billions of pounds here.

The pitiful amount of tax is just a third of the standard corporate tax rate of 20 per cent.
Big banks have paid tax at a rate of less than 6 per cent, just a third of the standard 20 per cent corporate tax rate

Such banks are not breaking any rules, but in many cases are using losses made in the financial crisis to reduce the tax they pay now.

Many of the biggest international banks operating in London have just published their tax figures ahead of a end-of-year deadline.

Five of them, all U.S. banks, reported a profit – a combined $7.5billion (£6billion) – and paid corporation tax, or corporate income tax, of $452 million (£361.6million).
Linky

Let them go to Brussels, we're better off without them.

Kabaal 17-12-2016 11:50
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876173)
Linky

More bad news for the remoaners.
Either they would have been doing it anyway or they are taking advantage of the fact that money is now tighter for most people so the need for budget supermarkets is greater. Neither are things to use as a gloating tool for brexit.

denphone 17-12-2016 12:01
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
It has been Lidl's intentional plan like Aldi to expand their stores portfolio and has been for several years and and this is just their next step along that road.

nomadking 17-12-2016 12:06
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
How about we start highlighting the negative consequences for the rest of the EU, if they don't come to an agreement with us.

heero_yuy 17-12-2016 12:07
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35876176)
It has been Lidl's intentional plan like Aldi to expand their stores portfolio and has been for several years and and this is just their next step along that road.
It does however illustrate that Brexit is not a barrier to European investment in the UK.

1andrew1 17-12-2016 12:24
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876173)
Linky

More bad news for the remoaners
That's not a new announcement, it dates back to 2015! The company is reconfirming its three-year plan as it has just been granted planning permission for its site in Tolworth it acquired last year! Bad news for the more extreme Brexiters in town though as more of the country is exposed to European control and influence.
http://www.thisisourtownkingston.co....worth/07161000

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876173)
Meanwhile the banks that the remoaners are saying we need to keep:
Linky
Let them go to Brussels, we're better off without them.
Any company is allowed to carry forward losses from previous years to offset against corporation tax and they all do it. That's one reason why VM was acquired by Liberty Global. This applies to any industry sector, not just financial services.

The banks aren't going to Brussels - Dublin, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris seem to be the favoured locations at the moment.

And yes, we do need financial services companies to support this country financially. "as an industry financial services, in total, contributes £66.5 billion in taxes to the UK exchequer in 2014/15, an increase of 1.4% from the previous year. This represents 11.0% of the total UK government tax receipts from an industry that employs 1.1 million people."

That pays for a lot of schools, hospitals, roads and armed servicemen. Are you proposing we cut them all by 11%?
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/busi...-Tax-2015.aspx

---------- Post added at 11:24 ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35876178)
How about we start highlighting the negative consequences for the rest of the EU, if they don't come to an agreement with us.
Both parties (EU 27 and UK) will end up with some kind of agreement come what may. What that agreement is is the crucial thing.

denphone 17-12-2016 12:34
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876179)
It does however illustrate that Brexit is not a barrier to European investment in the UK.
l never said it was as l was just pointing out that the two named discounters have had these plans for years and would have invested whatever happened with the referendum result..

papa smurf 17-12-2016 12:44
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876179)
It does however illustrate that Brexit is not a barrier to European investment in the UK.
well i think its good news ,but i want the UK to be a success post brexit ..

nomadking 17-12-2016 12:51
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876179)
It does however illustrate that Brexit is not a barrier to European investment in the UK.
On the other hand this type of investment just generates profits within the UK and then ships them out. Manufacturing is different in that the profits are in part generated outside the UK, ie from exports.

1andrew1 17-12-2016 13:07
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35876197)
well i think its good news ,but i want the UK to be a success post brexit ..
Hopefully all those new Lidl employees will press their MPs for a soft Brexit with freedom of movement and no tariffs. :)

papa smurf 17-12-2016 13:13
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876204)
Hopefully all those new Lidl employees will press their MPs for a soft Brexit with freedom of movement and no tariffs. :)
there has always been freedom of movement around London for local workers

1andrew1 17-12-2016 13:28
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35876205)
there has always been freedom of movement around London for local workers
Except in areas "served" by Southern Rail. :D

OLD BOY 17-12-2016 14:18
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876211)
Except in areas "served" by Southern Rail. :D
Ah, Corbynista heaven!

Hugh 17-12-2016 15:03
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35876173)
Linky

More bad news for the remoaners.

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 ----------

Meanwhile the banks that the remoaners are saying we need to keep:



Linky

Let them go to Brussels, we're better off without them.
I think the 360,000 London-based employees of those financial organisations may disagree with you...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ent-in-london/

papa smurf 17-12-2016 15:21
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35876221)
I think the 360,000 London-based employees of those financial organisations may disagree with you...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ent-in-london/

from the article
The standard corporation tax rate is 20 per cent, meaning five big banks paid less than a third on average

your figures look like all of the financial sector -have you been over egging the pudding you crafty little remoaner

1andrew1 17-12-2016 15:25
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35876217)
Ah, Corbynista heaven!
Corbynista heaven is seen as Islington and other well-heeled areas of north London. Not Croydon etc where Southern goes.

OLD BOY 17-12-2016 20:21
Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35876225)
Corbynista heaven is seen as Islington and other well-heeled areas of north London. Not Croydon etc where Southern goes.
That doesn't mean that the Corbynistas are not enjoying every minute of the suffering of those affected.


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