Re: Coronavirus
 

But if everyone that needs to be is vaccinated, and many, many more will have had it, so what. Their immune systems can take care of it.

"could" be justified is not the same as "required"

Also variants/ mutations are not always more deadly, it may evolve to be less lethal. Not that it's that lethal at the moment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As Hugh said, good old herd immunity and the fact that no vaccine is 100% effective are good reasons to get as many people vaccinated as possible. The young may not need the protection the vaccine gives but vaccinating the young will protect others.

I would feel much more comfortable if my kids were vaccinated before visiting their Gran/my mum even though she's had her jabs

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well that's fine.

I won't be having mine done unless I'm forced to by stealth.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown lovers might enjoy the prospect of hovering below the herd immunity threshold and ongoing restrictions.

I however don’t. Mandate it for teenagers especially as they’ll start clogging up university halls in major towns and cities. To not mandate it, or withhold it, despite the evidence proving it safe and effective is good news for the anti-vax brigade.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Have your kids had the MMR jabs?

If so, what’s the difference?

(Genuinely curious, not trying to have a go).

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can't "mandate" it, you can strongly advise it.

It's either the decision of the parent or the decision of the person.

---------- Post added at 18:07 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

I know you're not.

Yes they had MMR and everything else. So did I when I was a kid including the polio sugar cube.

They are very different illnesses than COVID

Getting one of the MMR illnesses as a child, especially, a very young child can cause serious complications.

There is no evidence that COVID causes any issues for Children (that don't have other complications)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well whatever the strongest requirement is. Incentivise it as you say through mandating testing as much as possible (airports) at an individuals expense. Covid passports for popular venues and events the age group would participate in.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The whole point of healthy people getting vaccinated is to protect those whose immune systems cannot cope either with catching covid or with the actual vaccine..The idea is to try and protect the particularly vulnerable so why wouldn't a relatively healthy adult not get vaccinated if only to protect other vulnerable members of family or community?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Heaven forbid a Government policy values the collective over the individual.

I think the fact Pierre is willing to sell up his principles on vaccinating children for saving money on a family holiday is telling. Two PCR tests at my cost? No thanks.

Government should absolutely crush the will of those resisting by increasing the inconvenience and financial cost. It’s so easy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You mean by making vaccination a condition of getting a passport or making you pay for insurance to cover the cost to the state if you subsequently required NHS treatment which could have reasonably been avoided by being vaccinated?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are they not getting vaccinated then?

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

The public should be “crushed” , free will abolished, and freedom only when approved and allowed by the state.

Yours sincerely JFMarx.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s lower hanging fruit than that.

Any testing requirement adding £160 per child per holiday suddenly finds capitalists keen to avoid the cost.

Leveraging the system is easy without necessarily making it an absolute condition. Those with a principled stand suddenly will sell out for a couple of nights in a three star hotel in Benidorm.

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:39 ----------

I know you’re obviously content to risk further lockdown, and huge economic costs resulting from failure of the vaccination programme, and letting the virus run rife in schools and further education institutions.

However, I absolutely disagree.

The irony is you call others “lockdown lovers” and when offered a way out resist, unless you can save money on a holiday of course.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why not? You're giving the virus more opportunities to spread and thereby slow down the ending of restrictions.

Re: Coronavirus
 

no evidence of that no evidence of any failure. no evidence again.

fine

The way out is already mapped without the need to vaccinate children.

---------- Post added at 23:03 ---------- Previous post was at 23:00 ----------

Only the illiterate would not have read and understood my point of view.

I look forward to reading your paper.

Re: Coronavirus
 

On the contrary Pierre.

Anyone can read your posts - no need for restrictions, no need for vaccination as to those you deem 'safe' (notably, safe isn't scientifically defined).

That in itself always brings us back to the same risk - overwhelming the limited capacity of NHS resource. As you well know, I've told you often enough.

The way out isn't mapped at all - there's an aspirational document that will absolutely be overturned if and when the ignorant decide rules no longer apply to them when they should. Or, en masse they no longer need to be vaccinated.

If you want this to be the schools going back argument again as a comfort that you are right I'm more than happy to watch you follow the deluded path as you did in January.

There's always been two ways out - elimination through lockdown. Elimination through vaccination.

There is no 'living with the virus'.

I've always believed you've engaged with this debate sincerely. But without either path lockdown continues to be absolutely inevitable as much as it is absolutely avoidable.

As long as we keep pushing up the price of bang average family package holidays though with PCR tests I think we should we good.

Lockdown lovers of course thrive in this uncertainty because that is the only absolute certainty.