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1andrew1 01-08-2020 18:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
Excellent approach from the city of Liverpool showing how outbreaks can be managed without locking down the whole city.
Quote:
Jane Merrick, Policy Editor of the i

Something really interesting is happening in Liverpool. In the past week, public health officials noticed a surge in cases in one ward - so a few dozen streets - Princes Park in Toxteth. There were 20 new cases, out of 49 across the whole of Liverpool. Not a huge quantity but enough to suggest a spike could be happening.

To avoid the need for draconian lockdowns, or blanket measures that have been seen in other northern cities/towns, they’ve implemented an “enhanced outbreak control action plan” on just those streets. People who have been shielding are told to continue until 14 August. No one is allowed overnight stays. Care home visits are suspended except for those at end of life. Local restaurants reminded of precautionary measures.

The action is so targeted it allows volunteers to knock door to door telling people to get a test if they have symptoms and to remind them of the rules. A pop-up walk-in test centre has opened up in the ward. They can do this because of new powers given to local authorities to impose targeted restrictions at a hyper-localised level.
https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/st...87182877659136

Carth 01-08-2020 19:27
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045368)
Excellent approach from the city of Liverpool showing how outbreaks can be managed without locking down the whole city.

https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/st...87182877659136
Anyone can come up with a plan, it's whether it works or not.

Too soon to tell?

Hugh 01-08-2020 19:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36045359)
... but Hugh thinks that by pointing all this out, we are guilty of "unconscious bias" - he probably means more than that. He couldn't be more wrong. There is a clash of cultures and anybody pointing this out as undesirable is a baddie.

You can't fight Coronavirus properly in this divided climate.
As I said before, I don’t think you are guilty of "unconscious bias"...

I think anyone actively promoting "a clash of cultures" is a "baddie", whichever "culture*" they think they are...

*"culture" - British culture has always been modified and shaped by our interactions with the world outside our shores, and migrants to our land, but that’s not what you meant by "our culture", is it?

denphone 01-08-2020 19:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36045378)
Anyone can come up with a plan, it's whether it works or not.

Too soon to tell?
It is better to have a plan even if it ain't that good rather than have no plan at all.

nomadking 01-08-2020 19:46
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045368)
Excellent approach from the city of Liverpool showing how outbreaks can be managed without locking down the whole city.

https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/st...87182877659136
They're not doing anything that different to other very localised outbreaks around the country. When you're dealing with a few dozen cases, that's one thing, hundreds of them spread about is another.

1andrew1 01-08-2020 22:21
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36045383)
They're not doing anything that different to other very localised outbreaks around the country. When you're dealing with a few dozen cases, that's one thing, hundreds of them spread about is another.
Yet, it was sufficiently different to be highlighted in several tweets by the policy editor of a national newspaper.

nomadking 01-08-2020 22:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045391)
Yet, it was sufficiently different to be highlighted in several tweets by the policy editor of a national newspaper.
Regardless if an outbreak is "hyper-localized" it might be viable. With the wider population of the rest of us, any outbreak is likely to be spread more.
Link

Quote:
Akhtar Mahmood, a member of the mosque committee added: ‘One of the big problems we have had is of people going to pay their respects at the homes of those who have recently died. We lost a member of our congregation two weeks ago and there were 50 people gathered at his house to express their sympathies.’ A single road in Bradford registered an astonishing 17 coronavirus cases within six days, it has emerged.
Easy when it's all on one road.

Link

Quote:
At the weekend more than 3,000 people were tested at Leicester’s drive-through, walk-in and pop-up test centres – and officials say many more will be tested over the coming days as community testing is stepped up.
This week, hundreds of staff and trained volunteers will be calling on people at home to offer them a free test, with mobile testing units in neighbourhoods.
Link

Quote:
More than 1,000 public health workers will door-knock the two Victorian suburbs at the heart of the latest outbreak of Covid-19, with residents offered free testing including by Australian Defence Force medics being brought into the state to boost capacity, as 33 more cases of the virus were identified in the state overnight.
Walk-in testing centres exists in other places as well.

1andrew1 01-08-2020 23:30
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36045392)
Regardless if an outbreak is "hyper-localized" it might be viable. With the wider population of the rest of us, any outbreak is likely to be spread more.
I don't understand the logic of that sentence and what "the wider population of the rest of us" means. Do you just mean the total population? Surely, as the virus declines, any outbreaks will become more local as the virus begins to die out?

But, I think you're dismissing some rare good news. ;)

nomadking 02-08-2020 08:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045395)
I don't understand the logic of that sentence and what "the wider population of the rest of us" means. Do you just mean the total population? Surely, as the virus declines, any outbreaks will become more local as the virus begins to die out?

But, I think you're dismissing some rare good news. ;)
My points are:-
1) It's not that special.
2) The outbreak are larger than that.

3) It shouldn't be needed in the first place. People should be behaving themselves.

---------- Post added at 08:50 ---------- Previous post was at 08:49 ----------

Now this is a lockdown.
Link

Quote:
Mr Andrews said Melbourne will move into stage-four restrictions on Sunday, placing further limits on the movement of people.
That will include a night-time curfew, which will be implemented across Melbourne from 20:00 to 05:00 from Sunday.
The only reasons for leaving home during these hours will be work, medical care or care-giving.
Melbourne residents will only be allowed to shop and exercise within 5 km of their home. Exercise outside of the home will only be allowed for one hour at a time.

Hugh 02-08-2020 09:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c...63f70832efc25b
Quote:
Care home coronavirus testing pledge abandoned

Ministers have abandoned a key pledge to test all people in care homes regularly throughout the summer, plunging the test and trace system into chaos.

In a leaked memo sent to local authority chief executives on Friday night, Professor Jane Cummings — the government’s adult social care testing director — said “previously advised timelines for rolling out regular testing in care homes” were being torn up because of “unexpected delays”.

Regular testing of almost two million residents and staff was supposed to have begun on July 6. But Cummings said it would not reach all care homes for older people and those with dementia until September 7.

Other adult care homes will only be able to order test kits from August 31. She also admitted that the system for registering tests was “unnecessarily burdensome”.

A separate memo circulated among health officials last week said 64% of homes for the elderly or those with dementia had not had a round of “asymptomatic” testing. Of 9,144 homes, only 3,271 were sent testing equipment.

A senior public health official said more lives would “undoubtedly” be lost as a result.

1andrew1 02-08-2020 09:19
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36045405)
My points are:-
1) It's not that special.
2) The outbreak are larger than that.
3) It shouldn't be needed in the first place. People should be behaving themselves.
1) It's special enough to be singled out by a policy journalist. Where else in Engand is it happening?
2) I'm providing this as an example of how outbreaks might be managed less bluntly. I find it quite encouraging.
3) People may well have been behaving themselves but if they use or work on public transport, hospitals, shops, libraries, restaurants, bars etc then there is a chance of infection. We shouldn't automatically blame the victim, although when we see pictures of people flocking to the seaside, etc and not social distancing our unconscious bias means it's natural to do so.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36045407)
That's hugely disappointing. It's hard to comment without knowing what the unexpected delays are though.

OLD BOY 02-08-2020 10:02
Re: Coronavirus
 
At last - a more sensible approach to apply instead of total lockdown. The PM appears to have listened to my advice!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-new-lockdown/

Boris Johnson has asked officials to prepare a suite of possible measures that could help avoid shutting down the economy for a second time, after he said that he wanted to avoid another lockdown.

The options include a programme of "enhanced" or "differential" shielding, as part of which vulnerable people would be asked to remain at home while the rest of the population continued to move around freely. One proposal is for the shielded group to be allocated specific times of the week to have exclusive access to some services and shops.

Pierre 02-08-2020 10:08
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36045417)
At last - a more sensible approach to apply instead of total lockdown. The PM appears to have listened to my advice!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-new-lockdown/

Boris Johnson has asked officials to prepare a suite of possible measures that could help avoid shutting down the economy for a second time, after he said that he wanted to avoid another lockdown.

The options include a programme of "enhanced" or "differential" shielding, as part of which vulnerable people would be asked to remain at home while the rest of the population continued to move around freely. One proposal is for the shielded group to be allocated specific times of the week to have exclusive access to some services and shops.
Another lockdown would be disastrous. I’ll think we’ll just be playing COVID Whack-a-mole For the foreseeable future.

nomadking 02-08-2020 10:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36045410)
1) It's special enough to be singled out by a policy journalist. Where else in Engand is it happening?
2) I'm providing this as an example of how outbreaks might be managed less bluntly. I find it quite encouraging.
3) People may well have been behaving themselves but if they use or work on public transport, hospitals, shops, libraries, restaurants, bars etc then there is a chance of infection. We shouldn't automatically blame the victim, although when we see pictures of people flocking to the seaside, etc and not social distancing our unconscious bias means it's natural to do so.

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 ----------


That's hugely disappointing. It's hard to comment without knowing what the unexpected delays are though.
But they ARE being criticised for going to the beach etc. The key difference is that I'm not aware of any evidence that it has lead to any town/city wide lockdowns. Another huge key difference is the level of interaction between groups.


Many areas have their own walk-in testing setups. The care homes can use that.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36045417)
At last - a more sensible approach to apply instead of total lockdown. The PM appears to have listened to my advice!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-new-lockdown/

Boris Johnson has asked officials to prepare a suite of possible measures that could help avoid shutting down the economy for a second time, after he said that he wanted to avoid another lockdown.

The options include a programme of "enhanced" or "differential" shielding, as part of which vulnerable people would be asked to remain at home while the rest of the population continued to move around freely. One proposal is for the shielded group to be allocated specific times of the week to have exclusive access to some services and shops.
How would that make a difference? There would still be an intermingling between those separate groups at one stage or another.

1andrew1 02-08-2020 10:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36045421)
But they ARE being criticised for going to the beach etc. The key difference is that I'm not aware of any evidence that it has lead to any town/city wide lockdowns. Another huge key difference is the level of interaction between groups.

Many areas have their own walk-in testing setups. The care homes can use that.

---------- Post added at 10:47 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ----------


How would that make a difference? There would still be an intermingling between those separate groups at one stage or another.
If the first point is a disguised criticism of Muslims for things like the Leicester lock-down, I refer you to this Full Fact analysis. https://fullfact.org/health/leiceste...utbreak-islam/

Regarding testing in care homes, the reasons that many guests are in them mean that they can't just walk into "testing set-ups"!


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