Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36061614)

It does feel like No Deal now. If this were about dramatics and last moment deal-making then you think it would be leading to 'crunch talks' between the leaders in Europe with a last-minute agreement being reached 2 am Monday morning.

Instead, it just feels like it's petering out. It's been kicked up to the negotiating teams with an extended deadline and no momentum. As if they all know it's over but just can't bring themselves to dramatically say it, maybe hoping the other side declares it over first.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36061613)

Northern Ireland is a millstone that in the long run is destined to drift into the Republic. Demographics will see to it even if European politics doesn’t. And British sovereignty there was compromised years ago as a necessary condition of the peace process. There was no functioning executive in Stormont from 2017 to 2019 yet the place was run by the Northern Ireland Civil Service (which is independent of the British home civil service that, internally, treats its Scottish and Welsh operations as departments just like all the others). The British Government could have restored direct rule but it was considered too politically difficult to do. The British Government chose not to exert its authority in part of its own sovereign territory. That really ought to set the present situation in some sort of context.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36061588)

Liam Fox, 2017


Financial Times, 9th December 2020

https://www.ft.com/content/fb655185-...f-fbe97176c891

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36061626)

I think there will be a swell of opinion towards unification in the North but there are some tasty characters in the North who would not be happy. I guess it would depend if the Republic want to take on the UVF and their friends. That would be the core argument in any Republic of Ireland 'No' campaign in their referendum on the subject.

Of course, hiving off part of the UK would not be the best look for the Conservative and Unionist Party

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36061637)

I don't see the point you're making, He was right. It "should" have been easy. Unfortunately we didn't foresee that they would want control over another nations sovereign waters and that they would want control over another nations laws?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36061621)

Agreed.

Come what may, I believe talks will be ongoing as there will just be a succession of smaller deals to agree over the forthcoming days, weeks and years.

The UK government now needs to move swiftly to ensure the retention of its car plants or it will be facing some unsavoury headlines.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36061644)

We can go back to pre-referendum and it was a constant refrain from Remainers on how hard a deal would be. I don't have much sympathy for the Government if they fail to deliver on their promises and rhetoric. They're the ones who were elected to manage Brexit and any consequences that emerge from No Deal is on them.

Remember that the two reasons Brexiters said we would easily get a deal are because 'they need us more than we need them' and that German car companies would push Germany into a deal.

Whilst No Deal is very bad for the EU it's not so bad that they're not willing to go through with it clearly. Either this is what the Government intended or this misunderstood the cards they had at the table.

I still hope they back down a little on regulation but if they don't then No Deal here we come.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36061649)

Misunderstood the cards, they told us we held all the cards and if we have any sense at all we will never let them forget what they've said

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36061652)

If we didn't have want they desperately want, then surely the EU would have agreed to whatever, a long time ago.
The Remain side insisted the EU were a nice bunch of people and would be reasonable and not try to bully us. How did that turn out?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36061652)

If we didn't have want they desperately want, then surely the EU would have agreed to whatever, a long time ago.
The Remain side insisted the EU were a nice bunch of people and would be reasonable and not try to bully us. How did that turn out?:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36061646)

Forget cars, its agriculture that will be decimated under no deal.

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36061661)

Who said that? Remain were quite clear a deal would be hard.

I know one of the reasons I was against it is we were going from be an EU Member to an EU competitor and now we have a massive economic bloc right next to us as a rival. I was under no illusion as to how the EU would behave.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36061662)

Don't worry old chap. Boris has an 'oven ready deal', he doesn't lie ;)

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36061664)

How do you work that out?

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36061661)

Who said that? Remain were quite clear a deal would be hard.

I know one of the reasons I was against it is we were going from be an EU Member to an EU competitor and now we have a massive economic bloc right next to us as a rival. I was under no illusion as to how the EU would behave.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36061666)

The National Farmers Union have said so
Why a no-deal Brexit is catastrophic for British farming