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-   -   Unstoppable migration? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33698108)

deadite66 01-09-2015 17:37
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
http://10news.dk/?p=1701

Quote:
Germany: asylum seekers riot over Quran-in-toilet incident. 18 people sent to hospital. Journalists flee for their lives.
They may be fleeing for their lives or wanting to make a better life for themselves but many of these people from muslim countries will be very religious, do we really want those that agree with death for apostasy, Sharia law and forcing their wives and daughters to obey them in the west.

papa smurf 01-09-2015 18:08
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadite66 (Post 35796006)
http://10news.dk/?p=1701



They may be fleeing for their lives or wanting to make a better life for themselves but many of these people from muslim countries will be very religious, do we really want those that agree with death for apostasy, Sharia law and forcing their wives and daughters to obey them in the west.
i certainly don't we have enough of our own idiots to contend with

Ignitionnet 02-09-2015 12:18
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35795974)
Lets not forget, we need to hold ourselves accountable for a good percentage of this, due to our actions in certain countries (Libya, Syria, Iraq to name but three)
Being more than a little cold when they elected to head to Germany there was a good case for describing them as economic migrants.

Refugees are fleeing from somewhere, not fleeing to somewhere. These people have gone through multiple 'safe' countries before reaching Europe, ignoring the trip across the Schengen area to Germany.

The UK is not a part of Schengen, the UK does not have an obligation to take refugees from France or anywhere else in the EU. The UK provides more humanitarian aid than any other nation in the EU, and has taken millions of economic migrants from Europe in the past decade already.

Feel free to self-flagellate over all this if you want. None of the actions in the Middle-East were done in my name, I had no power to influence them, and have no interest in supporting bad policy to try and atone for bad policy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...t-borders.html

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadite66 (Post 35796006)
They may be fleeing for their lives or wanting to make a better life for themselves but many of these people from muslim countries will be very religious, do we really want those that agree with death for apostasy, Sharia law and forcing their wives and daughters to obey them in the west.
Tad late for that. Seen the results of social attitudes surveys of British Muslims?

Osem 02-09-2015 14:14
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Just been listening to a Hungarian MEP interviewed on Radio 5 and quite predictably the authorities there are seeing a dramatic increase in fake Syrian ID papers, passports etc. Now why would that be I wonder? Possibly because the authorities have sent out a clear message that Syrians will be accepted as genuine refuges? Of course there'll be entirely genuine Syrians who can't prove that's what they are so how is anyone supposed to determine the truth? Apparently the authorities in Vienna have requested the Hungarians to stop allowing migrants through. Not much sign of 'sharing the problem' there then...

He also confirmed the presence of a great many people from places like Pakistan, Bangladesh, Serbia and Albania who are nothing more than economic migrants and rightly pointed out that there needs to be a programme for ensuring their return to their places of origin in order that the genuine refugees can be properly dealt with.

Yvette Cooper seems to believe that the UK could easily take and support a few thousand refugees and she could be right. However, if she feels so strongly about that what did she do about dealing with the UK's very own homeless and destitute when her party were in power? It's not as though Labour eradicated that sort of appalling deprivation in their own back yard is it...

Meantime:

Quote:
Hundreds of migrants have protested for a second day at Hungary's decision to prevent them from travelling on towards Germany and other EU countries.

They are among 2,000 people camped at Budapest's Keleti train station, having bought tickets for onward journeys.

Meanwhile, more than 4,000 migrants arrived in mainland Greece from the island of Lesbos overnight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34128263

The thing is, once you've allowed a whole lot of desperate people so far they don't take kindly to being told they can go no further and I can understand that. They've already made their minds up about where they want to go and are unlikely to accept anything else. Therein lies another problem, we seem to be allowing the migrants to determine the action the EU takes rather than the other way around. Don't be too surprised therefore that many of them will choose to resume their journeys to Germany, Sweden, the UK or wherever in spite of where they may be offered 'sanctuary'. Short of putting them in secure compounds there's currently no way to stop these people going where they want and if that's Germany, no amount of words from Merkel about burden sharing, is going to stop them. That's what's been happening in Calais for years and maybe she needs to focus on that.

Ignitionnet 02-09-2015 15:21
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Hundreds of migrants again protested on Wednesday morning, chanting "Freedom, freedom" and waving train tickets, complaining they had paid hundreds of euros for the onward journeys.
It really does give those of a more xenophobic bent copious amounts of ammunition.

Osem 02-09-2015 15:56
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
On this subject Cameron is quite right:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34130067

Europe is facing a deluge of migrants and it's only going to get bigger unless we a) get tougher on illegals, traffickers etc. and b) spend more of our foreign aid assisting the countless refugees stuck in places like Jordan. We seem to have so much of a problem deciding what to spend the ring fenced budged on that we wind up handing it over to other people to do it for us. Whys isn't this money being spent alleviating the problems in places like Turkey and Jordan.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sing-time.html

mrmistoffelees 02-09-2015 16:40
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35796098)
Being more than a little cold when they elected to head to Germany there was a good case for describing them as economic migrants.

Refugees are fleeing from somewhere, not fleeing to somewhere. These people have gone through multiple 'safe' countries before reaching Europe, ignoring the trip across the Schengen area to Germany.

The UK is not a part of Schengen, the UK does not have an obligation to take refugees from France or anywhere else in the EU. The UK provides more humanitarian aid than any other nation in the EU, and has taken millions of economic migrants from Europe in the past decade already.

Feel free to self-flagellate over all this if you want. None of the actions in the Middle-East were done in my name, I had no power to influence them, and have no interest in supporting bad policy to try and atone for bad policy.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...t-borders.html

---------- Post added at 11:18 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------



Tad late for that. Seen the results of social attitudes surveys of British Muslims?
As citizens of this country, those actions were taken in our names regardless of if we agreed with them or not. I challenge you to state categorically that the actions we have taken in some of these countries have not had a direct impact in the flow of migrants to the EU

Osem 02-09-2015 16:57
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
For much of the past five years, Europe has been on edge; the crisis in the eurozone was seen as threatening the entire European project.

Leaders lined up to warn that: "If the euro fails, then Europe fails."

Now, in a brief passage of time, everything has changed.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel says the migrant crisis "will challenge us far more than Greece and the stability of the euro".

In Europe, the largest numbers of refugees is on the move since the aftermath of World War Two. An estimated 3,000 people a day are trying to make their future in Europe.

The crisis has overwhelmed Europe's leaders. There is no plan
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34115570

Well why bother having plans eh? :rolleyes:

Quote:
Existing rules for processing people where they arrive have been discarded.

Temporary border controls have re-emerged on what are supposed to be passport-free borders. Fences are being strengthened.

There is tension and finger-pointing. One prime minister accused other leaders of "not telling the truth" about the migrants.
It was as foreseeable as Greece's economic woes yet nobody wanted to hear anything which might show up the EU for what it has become.

Well now the reality is starting to focus a few of the 'great minds' who led us down this route without a plan. Now the Germans and Swedes are realising that being so generous to refugees has created a tidal wave they cannot stop and they want others to relieve them of the problem their own policies created. What they failed to take on board is that we're not dealing with a finite number of refugees from one or two troubled countries we're now dealing with people from all over Africa and as far afield as Asia who believe that if they come here they will be allowed to stay. There are countless millions of such people and yet we have no plan for dealing with them as and when they decide that life's better here than there.

Quote:
But then Germany's interior minister revealed that Germany might accept 800,000 migrants this year. The figures seemed to be growing on a daily basis.

And some were almost certainly economic migrants. A third of those arriving in Germany were from Albania, Kosovo and Serbia.

Mrs Merkel said at the weekend that "in order to be able to help those in distress, we also must tell those who are not in distress that they cannot stay with us".

The sheer scale of the crisis has left politicians floundering for answers.

The German chancellor has said: "If we don't succeed in fairly distributing refugees, then of course the Schengen question will be on the agenda for many."

What Angela Merkel was hinting at was that passport-free travel (a principle enshrined in the Schengen agreement) could be challenged.
Chaos without a plan...

I'll be interested to see how Merkel decides to a) remove the economic migrants that Germany has already admitted and b) prevent yet more from turning up on their borders demanding their right to a better life.

Ignitionnet 02-09-2015 17:23
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35796155)
As citizens of this country, those actions were taken in our names regardless of if we agreed with them or not. I challenge you to state categorically that the actions we have taken in some of these countries have not had a direct impact in the flow of migrants to the EU
Why would I say something that clearly isn't true?

Doesn't change my opinion of how we should be managing this. The weak response thusfar has been a disaster and turned a flow into a torrent.

Osem 02-09-2015 19:13
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Images of Czech police officers writing numbers on the hands of migrants are an uncomfortable reminder of a different event and a different era.

But the Czech authorities appeared totally unaware of the unfortunate visual connotations with the Holocaust, when prisoners at Auschwitz were systematically tattooed with serial numbers.

The Foreigners' Police said the priority in dealing with the 200 migrants at Breclav railway station, in the South Moravian region, was identifying them and trying to keep family members together.

This, said a spokeswoman, was a difficult task when many had no documents and did not speak English; hence the numbers in felt-tip pen on their arms.

But some are outraged.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-eu-34128087

Quote:
But the public mood is hardening; a petition is already circulating in Breclav in protest at a tent city being erected in the suburbs to house migrants arrested at the station.

And that hostility is echoed on a national level.

A new poll released on Wednesday suggested that 94% of Czechs believed the EU should return refugees to where they came from, 32% without helping them at all.
Doesn't look like the Czechs are going to sharing the burden then. Wonder if Merkel will threaten them...

Arthurgray50@blu 02-09-2015 19:59
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
I NEVER thought that l would ever say this. But, l agree with what David Cameron has said in the news today.

However, what each country SHOULD be doing is, try harder where these traffickers are and where they are.

We are only a few country, in the middle of a giant ocean. But it does not help when the clergy get involved and say that we should take more people in.

He should go to Calais, and see the people trying to get into the UK - they are not going anywhere else apart from the UK.
If people are in France, Germany wherever, then in up to that country to look after them

If we start taking in more and more people, when it end. They don't look after there own people

figgyburn 02-09-2015 21:06
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Maybe the clergy could open up the churches to them as they are mostly empty except for a sunday when i do not suppose the muslims would want to attend the christian service.

Chris 03-09-2015 13:03
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by figgyburn (Post 35796233)
Maybe the clergy could open up the churches to them as they are mostly empty except for a sunday when i do not suppose the muslims would want to attend the christian service.
Most of the sorts of church buildings you're thinking of would be quite unsuitable. Fret not, however, Christians have been at the forefront of this sort of thing for quite some time. See YMCA, amongst many others.

Osem 03-09-2015 15:37
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Quote:
Scuffles have broken out west of the Hungarian capital, Budapest, after police tried to force migrants off a train at a refugee camp.

Amid chaotic scenes, police ordered journalists from the area at Bicske, declaring it an "operation zone".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34142512

Quote:
Meanwhile, there have been sharp disagreements among European leaders over how to deal with the crisis.

In Brussels, Hungary's Prime Minister Viktor Orban described the crisis as a "German problem" as Germany was where those arriving in the EU "would like to go".
Seems like he's taking a leaf out of the Mayor of Calais' book then. Germany welcomes them (probably not for much longer) so they're responsible for the deluge...

It's ironic that the UK is often told it's our fault that migrants want to come here so much (e.g. generous benefits, big black economy, no requirement to carry ID etc.) and that we need to be tougher but then, when it suits the French, Germans, or whoever, we're told we should accept more of them... :spin:

Ignitionnet 03-09-2015 20:54
Re: Unstoppable migration?
 
Very good news.

Quote:
David Cameron will respond to growing international and domestic demands that Britain take more refugees fleeing the Syrian civil war by announcing that the UK will take in thousands more.

Final details of the numbers, funding and planned location are being urgently thrashed out in Whitehall.

Those selected to come to the UK will be drawn from the UNHCR camps on the border of Syria. It is not expected that the UK will allow the number to be as high as tens of thousands.
Fulfilling some of our humanitarian obligations and simultaneously minimising economic migrants coming to the UK by abusing the Syrian crisis.

Also gives the message that we will come to those in need, rather than them paying people traffickers.

I don't think anyone can have many complaints about this. We can cope with 10,000 refugees. A far better approach than those our continental European neighbours appear to want to take.


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