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-   -   Will Scotland Leave the UK? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33684496)

TheDaddy 05-02-2014 21:08
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Great article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ON-HEFFER.html

Not so great article but interesting never the less

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile...5828dce3d0899a

Jimi 05-02-2014 21:10
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35669492)
It seems I have been wildly optimistic about SepScotland's ability to bail out RBS, even if it had full control of its own currency. The RBS balance sheet turns out to be 10 times larger than Scotland's GDP. No amount of money printing or international loans could cover that.

Not that I make a habit of quoting Vince Cable as gospel, but according to Jeremiah, Scotland would have to accept the need of its own currency, the cost of postage would go up and RBS would decline to take the risk of operating under Scottish control and shift its HQ to London, which would in turn blow a massive hole in a certain J. Swinney's tax assumptions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...nce-Cable.html
Its okay,we'll just charge you for entering Scotland,as long as you all learn to (((arrrrrgghhh)})
behave when you enter our beautiful country.

Wad_2002 05-02-2014 21:14
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35669407)
Mr Wad, the question we must answer in September has never been *could* we. It is, *should* we.

What sort of Scotland do you want? If you want true independence, a la Norway or Switzerland, then you close your border, print your own money and set your own taxes. This is not what the SNP is promising to negotiate in the event of a Yes vote.

If you want everything to continue pretty much as it is now, except without interference from Westminster, which is what the SNP is promising, then you are believing a lie. For the border to be open, and the currency to be unchanged, Scotland would be leaving many of the powers that rightly belong to an independent government, in the hands of a foreign neighbour. You think Westminster doesn't reflect Scotland because it only has 50 Scottish MPs? How about when it has zero Scottish MPs, but Scotland's fiscal policy is still being set there?

The GuessNP is selling a pig in a poke. The only deal on offer isn't independence, it's a hamstrung union in which Scots have vastly less influence over a government that will continue to rule over their economy.
Chris,

Chris you right on money with the question (pardon the pun). But I believe the journey this now is understanding if we could leave and do it on our own without blowing the country up. Pretty much the concencus of your arguments that I have seen so far in this thread is that will happen if we leave. Anyways,

Britain may have been one of the great rulers over the past couple hundred years Chris, but when coming to rule the neighbour to the north, its a very controversial matter. More so over the last few decades for very obvious reason's.

Chris you believe the union works very well. Well sorry I completely disagree with you on this.

We sell off our public utility's for a quick buck, hugely expand an inflated banking sector,crush a major world player in manufacturing, create an over inflated benefits system which totally lost focus of its original purpose, continue to pay bankers major bonuses, continue to do nothing about tax evaders, bbc scandals (public arm and big UK promtor), fund the royals, accept and influenced by a specific religion, sell off public assets (including council housing) and create an over inflated, heavily saturated private rent sector where again personal gain and profits prevail. The list goes on and on and on Chris. Where all the effective regulation, of which we also pay for out the public purse doesn't cut it.

Yeah, we can all say "yeah, but they can get everything right". Well I believe getting the basics and fundamentals right first and putting the power to the people first. Sadly that ain't the the case.

Why am I saying all this, because we can do nought about it. Salmond looks over the north sea, and see this money going south and dreams of what it could do for Scotland. Is that such a bad thing??...I mean really? AS knows the oil is running out and wouldn't be on the campaign trail if Scot had no oil.

You may not accept it, but I accept that oil is the lifeline of the current economic status of most advanced countries in this world and will go mental when the oil stops. But until that day, its major financial boost and incentive.

I need to give credit where due in regards to your argument about the pound , but I think it will take more than whether it is the £ or not, to make or break Scotland is it decides to leave. I may be wrong, but Im sure the irish pound did fine until they joined the euro.

Close the border, why? I mean like AS said, we would be your friendly neighbour to the north. I mean is that not good enough?

Like another poster said, Im not an economist, and I have to rely on sources of info for that...

Other than losing sight of AS fundamental reasons for doing it, I will ask you though Chris, what would happen to the rest of the UK's wealth if Scotland left. You seem to have a very big insight on how bad it will be for Scotland, I am very interested to hear your views on the flip side.

All the talk I have heard so far is Scotland will emplode and the rest of the UK will will be fine and have to ride to Scotland's rescue. I mean really, do you believe anyone to accept that, weather anyone has a detailed economic financial reason which to me is all banker talk covering their rear ends. (not to imply that you are a banker or that).

Who do we we standing up now?, the govn. of the bank of England?...who may see less money coming in and have to deal with problems that he cannot even comprehend. What the head of the BP?...who has to worry about AS raising the rent on the fields.

You know Chris, if your right, and we leave and mess it up, I will come back here and give you your due, I am man enough to do that, but its going to take more than the better together campaign weak arguments to convince Scots to stay. Labour were wiped out in Scotland in the last election for a very good reason and are still shocked .

Jimi 05-02-2014 21:31
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35669499)
Nice one,er,you do know the Daily Fail is a laughing stock of a rag.

http://www.theguardian.com/media/tab...nal-newspapers

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:26 ----------

...You know Chris, if your right, and we leave and mess it up, I will come back here and give you your due, I am man enough to do that, but its going to take more than the better together campaign weak arguments to convince Scots to stay. Labour were wiped out in Scotland in the last election for a very good reason and are still shocked .
Wad_2002; Today at 21:23.

================================================== ==========
Likewise.
*

Wad_2002 05-02-2014 21:38
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35669499)

lol Scotland's heavily subsidised style. I think this guy lives in coo coo land. I have never read such anti scottish dribble in my life. I take it this is being drip fed down south, rather than the truth and why we should stay and work things out for the greater. of everyone involved.

TheDaddy 05-02-2014 21:44
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wad_2002 (Post 35669512)
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Great article

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...ON-HEFFER.html

lol Scotland's heavily subsidised style. I think this guy lives in coo coo land. I have never read such anti scottish dribble in my life. I take it this is being drip fed down south, rather than the truth and why we should stay and work things out for the greater. of everyone involved.
I don't want you to stay.

jamiefrost 05-02-2014 21:46
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wad_2002 (Post 35669405)

But this is where the draw back is Chris and the fundamental flaw of the "system" is Scotland cannot implement/influence policy decision making in Westminster becuase of the under re-presentation of the Scottish MP's. The same goes for NI, Wales, etc.. I realise we got devo, but sorry, it doesn't satasfy my need and nor would I expect it to satasfy the scottish parliaments needs.

We have 50 or so mp's in westminster out of a representation of 600 for the UK. How can SNP, Salmond or anyone for the fact change things for the better good.
How far do you take this, in a future Scottish government how well would Shetland and Orkney be represented if they vote for a different party to the rest of Scotland.

Do they get independence as they will not be able to influence policy at all.

J

Wad_2002 05-02-2014 21:51
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35669514)
I don't want you to stay.
lol just to clarify, I was referring to the author of the article was in coo coo land.

Hope we can still be good neighbour's too the north should we leave :)

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiefrost (Post 35669516)
How far do you take this, in a future Scottish government how well would Shetland and Orkney be represented if they vote for a different party to the rest of Scotland.

Do they get independence as they will not be able to influence policy at all.

J

Sorry, I might be missing your point. But to answer, arnt they already part of scotland?...Just as Aberdeen were to vote a different party, they would have to lump it.

Pretty much we do the now?

Hugh 05-02-2014 21:55
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Well, prospective English, Welsh, and NornIron students are looking forward to equity with Scottish and EU students, and getting their fees paid by the Scottish tax-payer....

http://www.studyinscotland.org/how-t...ding-and-fees/

jamiefrost 05-02-2014 21:58
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wad_2002 (Post 35669517)
lol just to clarify, I was referring to the author of the article was in coo coo land.

Hope we can still be good neighbour's too the north should we leave :)

---------- Post added at 21:51 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------




Sorry, I might be missing your point. But to answer, arnt they already part of scotland?...Just as Aberdeen were to vote a different party, they would have to lump it.

Pretty much we do the now?
But lack of representation of Scotland in the UK government is a reason for independence, why would it be different for Shetland and Orkney?

If they have to lump it why can't Scotland as a whole lump it then?

J

Sirius 05-02-2014 22:05
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi (Post 35669500)
Its okay,we'll just charge you for entering Scotland,as long as you all learn to (((arrrrrgghhh)})
behave when you enter our beautiful country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi (Post 35669498)
Isn't it amazing how many folk have got their knickers in a twist because of the word 'tae' eh.:D
Och awrite then,whit a will dae is use the word 'no',is everywan happy noo.;)
Now i understand WHY you want a yes vote, you want more money spent on bridge repairs so you don't need to come out from under yours as much :tu:

Osem 05-02-2014 22:15
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wad_2002 (Post 35669503)
Chris,

Chris you right on money with the question (pardon the pun). But I believe the journey this now is understanding if we could leave and do it on our own without blowing the country up. Pretty much the concencus of your arguments that I have seen so far in this thread is that will happen if we leave. Anyways,

Britain may have been one of the great rulers over the past couple hundred years Chris, but when coming to rule the neighbour to the north, its a very controversial matter. More so over the last few decades for very obvious reason's.

Chris you believe the union works very well. Well sorry I completely disagree with you on this.

We sell off our public utility's for a quick buck, hugely expand an inflated banking sector,crush a major world player in manufacturing, create an over inflated benefits system which totally lost focus of its original purpose, continue to pay bankers major bonuses, continue to do nothing about tax evaders, bbc scandals (public arm and big UK promtor), fund the royals, accept and influenced by a specific religion, sell off public assets (including council housing) and create an over inflated, heavily saturated private rent sector where again personal gain and profits prevail. The list goes on and on and on Chris. Where all the effective regulation, of which we also pay for out the public purse doesn't cut it.

Yeah, we can all say "yeah, but they can get everything right". Well I believe getting the basics and fundamentals right first and putting the power to the people first. Sadly that ain't the the case.

Why am I saying all this, because we can do nought about it. Salmond looks over the north sea, and see this money going south and dreams of what it could do for Scotland. Is that such a bad thing??...I mean really? AS knows the oil is running out and wouldn't be on the campaign trail if Scot had no oil.

You may not accept it, but I accept that oil is the lifeline of the current economic status of most advanced countries in this world and will go mental when the oil stops. But until that day, its major financial boost and incentive.

I need to give credit where due in regards to your argument about the pound , but I think it will take more than whether it is the £ or not, to make or break Scotland is it decides to leave. I may be wrong, but Im sure the irish pound did fine until they joined the euro.

Close the border, why? I mean like AS said, we would be your friendly neighbour to the north. I mean is that not good enough?

Like another poster said, Im not an economist, and I have to rely on sources of info for that...

Other than losing sight of AS fundamental reasons for doing it, I will ask you though Chris, what would happen to the rest of the UK's wealth if Scotland left. You seem to have a very big insight on how bad it will be for Scotland, I am very interested to hear your views on the flip side.

All the talk I have heard so far is Scotland will emplode and the rest of the UK will will be fine and have to ride to Scotland's rescue. I mean really, do you believe anyone to accept that, weather anyone has a detailed economic financial reason which to me is all banker talk covering their rear ends. (not to imply that you are a banker or that).

Who do we we standing up now?, the govn. of the bank of England?...who may see less money coming in and have to deal with problems that he cannot even comprehend. What the head of the BP?...who has to worry about AS raising the rent on the fields.

You know Chris, if your right, and we leave and mess it up, I will come back here and give you your due, I am man enough to do that, but its going to take more than the better together campaign weak arguments to convince Scots to stay. Labour were wiped out in Scotland in the last election for a very good reason and are still shocked .
Seems to me you don't need to know what Chris or anyone else thinks about this. He's answered your questions cogently and you still have more questions than answers yet you'll still vote 'Yes' by the sound of it. That's your prerogative, of course, but you and those like you will be the ones who have to live with the outcome and that's the price you'll pay for Salmond's 'freedom'.

Good luck with that, I hope it goes well for you and trust that all that new found SNP national pride will mean you won't be expecting your 'good neighbours' to bail you out if it all goes pear shaped. After all you'll be 'independent' then and wanting to stand alone, responsible for your own success or failure, and I don't suppose many of you newly independent Scots will be wanting to sacrifice any of your SNP created wealth bailing us out if your leaving the UK fatally holes the ship.

As they say on shopping TV - 'when it's gone it's gone' and if you have your way that will apply to Scotland.

Hugh 05-02-2014 22:35
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi
Its okay,we'll just charge you for entering Scotland,as long as you all learn to (((arrrrrgghhh)}) behave when you enter our beautiful country.
What do you mean 'our beautiful country'?

You're a Sassenach!

Since I was born and raised there, I think you might find I have more rights there than you...;)

Wad_2002 05-02-2014 22:37
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35669525)
Seems to me you don't need to know what Chris or anyone else thinks about this. He's answered your questions cogently and you still have more questions than answers yet you'll still vote 'Yes' by the sound of it. That's your prerogative, of course, but you and those like you will be the ones who have to live with the outcome and that's the price you'll pay for Salmond's 'freedom'.

Good luck with that, I hope it goes well for you and trust that all that new found SNP national pride will mean you won't be expecting your 'good neighbours' to bail you out if it all goes pear shaped. After all you'll be 'independent' then and wanting to stand alone, responsible for your own success or failure, and I don't suppose many of you newly independent Scots will be wanting to sacrifice any of your SNP created wealth bailing us out if your leaving the UK fatally holes the ship.

As they say on shopping TV - 'when it's gone it's gone' and if you have your way that will apply to Scotland.
Why, is this not a debate? I respect Chris's and others input hence why i am interested on his views on the flip side?

Just for your info, I have never said I was voting yes, or meant to give that impression ,Im sure I posted back a while ago on his thread that breaking the union is not the answer for everyone. But Im not prepared to accept the current situ for the next 10 years or so.

Its clear that some folks have ill feelings, and Im happy to sit on the sidelines on this thread.

Just to answer your last point, I would hope that wouldn't happen to neither, but it we had to help, I would be all for it, mainly due to the history and all we have been through together. :)

Thanks for listening.

Pierre 06-02-2014 09:33
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi (Post 35669498)
Isn't it amazing how many folk have got their knickers in a twist because of the word 'tae' eh.:D
Och awrite then,whit a will dae is use the word 'no',is everywan happy noo.;)
Sorry, I can't understand what your saying.


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