Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Hamas did not sign up to another cease fire because Israel made no concessions in regards to reducing the blockade and allowing the people of Gaza to be free. Can you please explain how forcing citizens to live in utter poverty and to restrict their movements, to allow for one of the worst catastrophes to build up over a period of time, in a time when rocket attacks have stopped (i.e during a ceasefire) is going to give anyone an incentive to carry on with it.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

I am guessing Israel did not trust Hamas, what with the fact they kept attack Israel during the cease fire and before the blockade. A lasting cease fire needs to both assure no more rocket attacks (2,500 is stupid) and no more blockade.

My point is Hamas and Israel are equally to blame for the suffering in Gaza, and I don't like seeing Hamas role in all of this deminised for the sake of making Isreal seem worse.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Do you have a link as to how many rocket attacks were made during the ceasefire? The graph you linked to shows rocket/mortar attacks upto november 2008.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Thanks for that, the first attack, for some reason, was not reported on the news.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

November 2008 was during the cease fire? The cease fire was from summer to 23rd of December? (when Hamas went into overdrive and Israel went crazy)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...n_2008#October

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

What Im trying to say is that the graph is for rocket attacks upto november 2008. Not necessarily during November 2008. As far as I am aware Hamas upheld the ceasefire. Israel say that they (Hamas) used that time to build up their stockpiles.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Timeline leading up to Israel's first air strikes, Hamas were really stepping up there rocket attacks:

---------- Post added at 17:13 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

They didn't uphold it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...l_in_2008#July

List of rocket attacks since July (around the time of the cease fire).

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Actually they did, there are other groups in Gaza you know, in fact from your link

Following yesterday's rocket attack by Aksa Martyrs Brigade a spokesman for the Hamas government, Taher al-Nunu, called Fatah's actions "unpatriotic". He said Hamas was considering the possibility of taking action against those perpetrating the attacks against Israel. Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh called Friday on Palestinian factions to adhere to the Gaza Strip lull agreement with Israel.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

At least some from that link were by Hamas..

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Damien, from the wiki link regarding the timeline of rocket attacks :-

June 27, 2008 Early on Friday, two mortar shells were fired at Israel from the northern Gaza Strip. One landed near Kibbutz Kfar Aza in the Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council, and the second one hit an open area. There were no reports of injuries or damage in the latest violation of the fragile ceasefire. Following yesterday's rocket attack by Aksa Martyrs Brigade a spokesman for the Hamas government, Taher al-Nunu, called Fatah's actions "unpatriotic". He said Hamas was considering the possibility of taking action against those perpetrating the attacks against Israel. Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh called Friday on Palestinian factions to adhere to the Gaza Strip lull agreement with Israel. "The factions and the people accepted the lull in order to secure two interests – an end to aggression and the lifting of the siege. Therefore, we hope that everyone honors this national agreement", he said following Friday prayers.[57]
Hamas were not linked directly to any rocket atttacks up until November the 6th. They infact told militants to uphold the truce.

November 6th Israel attacks a 250 meter tunnel going from Gaza and under its border. The tunnel is to designed to capture additional Israeli soldiers and hold them hostage. Six Gaza fighters are killed and four Israeli special forces wounded. Hamas responds by firing 30 Qassam rockets at Israel. The truce agreed to five months ago is starting to founder.[73] Between October 29th and November 6th 48 rockets and 21 mortars were fired from Gaza into Israel.[74] Then, between November 5th and November 12th, 22 rockets and 9 mortars were fired into Israel.[75]
Here Hamas responded to what seems like an Israeli intrusion.

December 19th The cease fire agreement ends. During the six month cease fire 329 rockets and mortar shells were fired. For the six months prior to the truce 2278 rockets and mortars were fired into Israel.[87]
So in the 6months only 10& of rockets were fired into Israel compared to the previous 6 months , of which the first to be claimed by Hamas were in November (following Israeli soldiers killing 6 Gaza fighters)

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Irrespective of who fired first, Hamas & Israel have an issue with each other. It is, or was, only a matter of time before something kicked off. Now it has. Its the people who are suffering, Israel will not settle for anything less than the demise of Hamas.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

Makes you think which side are the terrorists doesnt it :mad: i know were my feelings lie

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

And it's the anger (on all sides) that keeps the conflict going (imho).

Everyone keeps harking back to "they did this, but they did that" - they should remember and learn from these events, and try not to repeat them, but not use them for justification for more and more escalation, because it will just get worse for all involved.

I really can't see reason being given a chance, but hope to be proved wrong.

Update - latest from BBC, on newspage reporting the 30 dead at the UN-run school.
"The BBC's Laura Trevelyan in New York says the contours of an agreement are taking shape - international monitors along the Egypt-Gaza border to stop Hamas smuggling weapons and firing rockets at Israel, and the creation of a humanitarian corridor in southern Gaza to ensure that aid goes to the Palestinians.
The question now is whether Hamas will accept such a deal and if a call for a ceasefire will be heeded by Israel, our correspondent says"

Here's hoping, for all concerned.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

This seems to be a massive stumbling block on both sides, not just in Israel and Palestine but here as well, and I'd imagine anywhere this almost intractable nightmare is discussed.
After forty years of atrocities on both sides it becomes almost a pointless argument trying to constantly paint the other side as the aggressor, and yourself as the victim, what matters now is the future, next week, next month and next year.
From a Palestinian point of view they could really pile the pressure on Israel by going along with their commitments to the existing "road-map" to the letter, if they were to do this America would have to be more even handed and put pressure on Israel to follow suit.
It seems to me that Abu Mazen has cottoned on to this, if only he could get the leaders of Hamas to follow suit...because even Hamas must realise that they can't win a military victory which ends in the dissolution of Israel.

Re: Scores die in Israeli air strikes
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/7817926.stm

For all those who condemned Hamas for using human shields, and said that the Israeli army was doing all it can to protect civilians and not target them on purpose.