Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...rump-zelensky/

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Thank you for clarity President Trump :tu:

Oh some logic. Europe can pull their finger out. The sanctions are really scaring Russia :sleep:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Trumps only interest was this ;
His only worry as far as Ukraine goes is that if Putin succeeded, the US might lose access to the minerals.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The Ukrainians appear to have realised this, and have proposed a minerals deal that can’t work unless the Americans are prepared to defend their new assets. Zelenskyy is pragmatic enough to understand he’s going to have to pay something for American help (after all, we did, for decades after WW2), and in that regard paying with commodities the Americans will come in and extract is a pretty straightforward way of doing it.

Worth noting that unless there is a credible ceasefire, the deal can’t come into force. Also worth noting that according to multiple commentators the deal on the table doesn’t settle on quantities or values, it simply agrees the parties will meet to agree those things later, i.e. if/when there is a ceasefire.

Trump will spend the rest of this week and most of next shouting about how he’s secured the US hundreds of millions of $$$s, but I’m seeing various Ukraine-supporting Twitter accounts talking about this tonight and every single one of them thinks Ukraine has played a blinder here.

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The Times, however, has just reported.
https://www.thetimes.com/us/american...isit-nlld7k52c

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Correct - which is why I think they’ve been a bit clever. Because while the treaty may not make provisions for US security guarantees the Americans don’t get the minerals unless they come and get them. American workers, American security contractors, all in-country and very much too risky for Putin to risk firing missiles anywhere near … you see what they did there?

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They don't need guarantees, the minerals themselves are the guarantee, wonder if donnie realises, my guess is he doesn't :D

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I tend to agree.

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An article in the Washington Post today on that very point…

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...kraine-russia/

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What has a minerals deal got to do with NATO membership :confused:

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It gives America an interest in Ukrainian security, but without bringing Ukraine in to NATO, which is a red line for Putin.

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Obviously nothing.

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My point was the washingtonpost article suggests the minerals deal will annoy Putin when in reality Trump and Putin are laughing. Ukraine is becoming American and not neighbour like Russia. Where's Trump going to put Ukraine? Greenland, Canada, south America? Putin's thinking the land is up for grabs. I read comments that Ukraine have pulled a blinder of a deal with the US :confused: forgetting where they actually live.

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‘In reality Trump and Putin are laughing’ - can you please explain what you mean by that, preferably without use of weird rhetorical questions.

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Ukraine need a suitcase they can fill minerals in on their one way ticket to America. Trumps laughing because that's not going to happen. Putin's thinking great their moving to America. Ukraine are laying their own bed here. Good luck trying to remove Russia when the eater with two hands Ukraine has choices where the live. Surely Trump can see this. The minerals deal is hardly going to start WW3. Funny that though having gone after invisible WMDs once upon a time.

Anyway they are laughing because Ukraines confused. Ukraine are either western or eastern. Trumps a distant friend whereas Putin's a neighbouring foe.

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No … sorry … I’m none the wiser.

Thank you for dropping the rhetorical questions but would you mind dropping the tortured metaphors as well?

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I'm not a wordsmith like you. I don't know what is coming across as nonsensical re: Trump and Putin laughing.

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I’m literally begging you not to wordsmith anything. Just state clearly what you think. Unless you literally think in terms of suitcases, beds, and Trump putting Ukraine in Greenland or wherever, in which case this is a lost cause.

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Who mentioned NATO ? Its not in the quote.

Well Trump is probably happy, why would Putin be laughing ?

Huh ? I cant make any sense of this.

What on earth are you talking about. :confused:

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you folk are too intelligent for me. I said my bit. that is all.

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Whoa Ukraine in the White House touched a nerve. Link to follow

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WTAF am I watching.

Trump has lost the plot and no respect for a world leader.

The King should revoke the state visit.

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Trumps chucked his dummy out, what an absolute nob he is

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He's more than that, but I don't want a ban.:D

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That is shocking. They brought him there for this ambush:

https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1895531474574569755

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Trumps not buying it :tu:

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The arrogance ….

Zelenskyy has been under bombardment for 3 years, his windows and light fittings rattling nightly with the force of explosions. There have been FSB kill squads trying to find him, his wife and his daughter to actually kill them to death. And yet these two emotionally brittle man babies thought they were going to intimidate him with TV cameras and ignorant words.

It just goes to show, if nothing else, that what Trump says one day, Trump is liable to contradict the next.

You have to wonder where Trump thinks he’s going vis a vis Russia next. If he believes he has established Zelenskyy is not going to sign a peace deal that freezes the line of contact (or anything like it), what is the point of him continuing to butter up Putin? Is Trump cross because he’s beginning to realise it is not in his power to end the war after all?

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Yet people will stick up for them and try to explain it away with bad excuses.

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Actually, Zelenskyy’s not buying it and that’s caused Trump to have a tantrum. This is what happens when you say ‘no’ to a pathological narcissist.

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

I saw a great ‘how to tell if you’re in a cult’ video yesterday which I now can’t find again. Described the MAGA clowns to a tee. Every 180 Trump does, the true believers cheer him on and act like he’s some genius negotiator.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

what a shyte show the USA has become , the last president had dementia this ones just plain demented.



if trump doesn't agree to zelenskyys vision ,those rare Earth minerals will be taken by Russia

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Trump and JD got a little heated because of threats being fired over by Zelenskyy.

Netanyahu said to America that Israels security is Americas security. Which is similar to what Zelenskyy said.

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Can you describe exactly how Zelenskyy made threats against Vance and Trump?

I suspect you may have been watching a different video than the rest of the world.

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Am l suprised at the behaviour of Trump and Vance.:(

The American electorate were warned and warned again.

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Are you on another planet, or just trolling ?

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Again, where are the "threats against Vance and Trump" ?

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The country of USA will feel influences of actions undertaken today. The pair are US citizens.

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The United States of America will feel the influence of Russia if Russia overwhelms Ukraine. Not immediately, but eventually, and despite America being an ocean away.

Please explain, in what way - exactly, if possible - is this a threat by Zelenskyy against Trump/Vance/USA?

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How do you know that?

Who's saying influences? Zelenskyy. And who too? Trump, USA. What else is going on?

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Well …….that went well.

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What’s going on is I have a brain and I’m capable of listening to what’s being said in context.

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So its your opinion. Righto :tu:

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Nope. And, for the time being, I choose to believe you’re not such a dim bulb that you don’t understand that.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Trump can't help himself but Vance should know better. That literally was two people against one, and it wasn't in Zalenskyy's native language. Two people who can sleep soundly at night knowing that their country isn't being invaded and one person in fear of his life and his country's very existence.

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Never underestimate the stupidly of the electorate, whether it be the USA or the UK.

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So, could the EU and UK make a minerals deal with Ukraine instead? Not to pay off what they've spent assisting Ukraine, but to help Ukraine finance its long-term defence against Russia.

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yea what about that labour lot eh

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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Well you've voted for Labour, I never have..;)

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Was that the famous "art of the deal" in action

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Am I wrong……but did it all start to go South because Zelenskyy refused to consider a cease fire?

That’s what I read.

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Yes, you're wrong (again).

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Three or more people. Marje Taylor-Greene’s boyfriend was in the press pack and got a question (he works for a minor cable news network while, oddly, the Associated Press Press did not get in). He is the one asking Zelenskyy if he owns a suit and why he’s disrespecting the Oval Office by not wearing one. I was going to say “as if he doesn’t know Zelenskyy’s vow to wear simple fatigue-like clothes while he is sending soldiers to their deaths” but in fact I can well believe he was thick enough not to know.

Notwithstanding, the whole thing was choreographed. There may have been a “he signed the deal” version of that performance as well, but this was very much the “he didn’t sign the deal” version.

This, for folk who have never had to deal with a real-life narcissist themselves, is precisely what real-life narcissists do once they finally realise they can’t control you.

I believe Macron already suggested that to Zelenskyy. The risk is that such a deal would have to be backed by European military guarantees. Europe is not however ready for open confrontation with Russia and Putin is liable to test their resolve with incremental escalation against European forces in a way he simply wouldn’t against the US.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Thenry, There’s a huge difference between making a threat and warning of an impending threat from a 3rd party

But, you know that already

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No, it went south because of the minerals deal. V1 of that deal was properly insane, but earlier this week both Ukraine and the US believed they had come up with something workable. The sticking point was whether it would be explicitly backed by the US military as a backstop. Trump believed the mere presence of American JCBs in Ukraine would deter Russia. Zelenskyy did not believe this was sufficient. The refusal of the Ukrainians to consider a ceasefire is connected to that aspect of the minerals deal. Even if the presence of US business interests was a deterrent - and it might have been, to some extent - they would not have arrived in Ukraine for some time. In the absence of a credible US security guarantee, a ceasefire is just a breather in which Putin can re-arm. At the moment, Russia has capacity to produce and procure weapons but it is losing materiel faster than it can renew it. If the fighting stops, Russia will be able to generate the mass for another go. And without US security guarantees, they would absolutely go for it.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don’t think I am.

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I know.

So for the minerals he wanted certain assurances, as you say.

Been down this road before, and I believe this is when it all kicked off with Trump saying that was Obama, Biden, Clinton………..

Then he said

So it would seem Trump was expecting a level of trust, not that he deserves it, that through interactions with previous administrations Zelenskyy was unwilling to give.

So, dummies out, you’re on your own.

Neither side look good in my opinion.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The UK, France and others need to try and smooth this over.

There isn't a realistic option in the immediate term other than the Americans retaining an interest in Ukraine.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I’m not sure how Zelenskyy comes out of this looking ‘not good’, except in the eyes of MAGA. Literally his only way of avoiding that choreographed pile-on would have been for him to have signed over billions worth of Ukrainian assets without any guarantee of American military protection and without any of the American human shields mining companies due in-country any time soon.

The deal he was being asked to sign was bad; the way he was treated in public by the president of the US was utterly shocking. Even if Zelenskyy’s negotiating skills were lacking (and I don’t think they are), whatever failings he has are utterly swallowed by the infamous spectacle Trump, Vance, Marje’s boyfriend et al perpetrated today.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Trump is right in one way he's brought Russia to the table. What comes of that I don't know.

But you have to ask trump this, when Russia installed nukes in Cuba it was nearly WW3 then so how is it any different now.

Trump and the USA need to get a grip

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I suspect Agent Krasnov is just following orders.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I haven’t seen the terms of the deal so can’t comment on how bad it was.

It was a clown show.

But for arguments sake, the USA have been bankrolling this conflict (reported amounts vary, but it’s a lot). The US wants to recoup some of this expenditure and have a ceasefire so talks can begin.

And Zelenskyy says no, well I wouldn’t be happy if I was Trump….I would have dealt with it better though.

As an aside…..Zelenskyy no ceasefire ….hero. Netanyahu no ceasefire…….evil……….but I digress.

It was bad, and was avoidable from both sides, but Zelenskyy is the one with his cap in hand………borrowers rarely dictate terms to lenders and that is essentially the point.

Trump is viewing this as he views all things, a business transaction.

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It’s an interesting and valid point.

Why should Russia live with nato weapons trained on them from an adjacent country, when the US didn’t?

I assume that was the point you were making?

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They already did, before 2022 (Estonia & Latvia, joined in 2004).
Since 2023 Finland has also joined in, directly due to Putins actions.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Europe has tried its very best here and will continue trying but it's easier to win a debate on Cable Forum than it is to change Trump's mind. ;)

The stakeholders not mentioned here are the mining companies and the industries that use those resources. If they can pressure Trump into providing some sort of security, perhaps by funding it, then he might be persuaded to come on board.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

But why should Russia have to accept it when the USA wouldn’t?

I didn’t bring it up, Gavin did. But it’s a valid point.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Of course its not valid. Russia already accepted it - for 18 years.
Not to mention you dont need to be on the border to aim missiles anymore.
Its 2025, not 1962.

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Bad timing for Zelensky to be out the country having upset the world’s pre-eminent supplier of regime change.

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Well, it’s on the news at length now.

As I said: this is what happens when a narcissist realises he can’t control you.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Of course it’s valid, just because it has happened doesn’t mean you accept it.

Ask any beaten wife.

Russia had no choice but to accept it, it happened, and Geo politics were much different at the time.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Ukraine did have nuclear weapons until the 1994 Budapest Agreement. Ukraine got rid of rid of its nuclear weapons in return for Russia, France, the UK and US guaranteeing its borders. An agreement breached by Russia in 2014 when it invaded Crimea.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It is quite likely Ukraine could re-acquire the ability to make a nuclear warhead without too much difficulty. And after today it has to be more likely that they will.

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Very true. You have to be pretty dim not to get this. Pointing out the obvious, but if Russia had taken Ukraine 3 years ago and made it part of Russia, guess who would be on its new border?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Krasnov’s handler is already trying to effect regime change, without success, despite 3 years of trying.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It’s not “likely” at all, no idea what you’re basing that assertion on.

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Wasn’t it also breached by France, U.K. and the US?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

The fact that nobody with any serious qualification to opine on it doubts that they can do it. They have the fissile material and the expertise.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...ay/ar-AA1tD3qs

https://www.iiss.org/online-analysis...n-for-ukraine/

The calculus until now has been whether it is politically too costly for them to do so. Up til now the consensus has been that it would be too costly. The political calculus is clearly now changing.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

What are you basing that on?

The Soviet era was 36 years ago. I seriously doubt they have the skills to build new war heads.


Btw, I’m doubtful Russia can as well.

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The analyst opinion I generously provided you links for ;)

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Oh those that’ said it’s highly unlikely to happen,…….those two.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Yes, those.

To repeat, with emphasis:

nobody with any serious qualification to opine on it doubts that they can do it. They have the fissile material and the expertise.

The calculus until now has been whether it is politically too costly for them to do so. Up til now the consensus has been that it would be too costly. The political calculus is clearly now changing.

“Unlikely to happen” is because of the political cost, not the technical challenge. The political calculus is changing.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

If people are siding with a person who assassinates his opponents in their own country, fixes internal elections to maintain power, invades other countries and murders prisoners-of-war and kidnaps children, they may wish to re-evaluate their life choices…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I don't think anyone is siding with anyone. you have to ask why did Russia invade Ukraine.

1. They knew they could
2. He knew nobody would stop him (in reality)
3. They blame Nato for getting too close to their borders and arming them

The reason I mentioned Cuba was this is no different aside from Cuba being pro Russian. isn't this how the cold war started the first time it's not much different now and this all started with N korea, followed by Russia who happens to have N korea in their back pocket again.

I see what Zelenski was saying when he says you may have water, they did back in 1962 it still didn't stop Russia trying.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I agree with your points 1 and 2. Point No. 3 makes no sense, it's just a Russian talking point which you've chosen to repeat again. As has been explained:
1.The UK, France and the US (and Russia) agreed to defend Ukraine's borders in an international treaty, so have an acknowledged interest in ensuring Ukraine is equipped to do so. Not that they were arming Ukraine before the invasion to any extent though.
2. Ukraine was not a NATO member and Russia had agreed that Poland and other Eastern European countries could join NATO.
3. Invading Ukraine risked more neutral, close by countries joining NATO, which Finland and Sweden did last year
4. By swallowing up Ukraine, Russia puts itself on a border with more NATO countries.

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We learnt yesterday that Ukraine's position had not changed and it still wanted security guarantees. Given that the deal was not a done one, hoping to sign it on the day was probably somewhat optimistic for both parties and humiliating for Trump who would take it personally.

Do you think Ukraine will now have to yield and sign a deal without any US security guarantees? Or is there another route to preserving Ukraine's independence?

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Are we talking about Putin or Hamas?

---------- Post added at 07:53 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------

There’s always a deal to be done, but it will be difficult now.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

In isolation, that description could indeed cover other regimes. But posted in the long-running thread 'Russia has invaded Ukraine', it's evidently talking about Putin.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

I actually think a deal is closer now than ever. Zelensky has run out of road. Whether that’s a deal with Zelensky or his successor remains to be seen.

Nobody is saying it yet but it’s inevitable the USA will reduce financial, operational and logistical support from the Ukraine war effort which requires substantial input to stand still. There will never be a better offer than now.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Not sure that allowing Putin to re-arm and then invade Ukraine for the third time in the future could be described as "a better offer"…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Appreciate that’s your long standing view but it’s the hypothetical future invasion against the certainty of an ongoing invasion with fewer resources than received to date.

Now that for Trump it’s personal post-2022 Ukraine needs to get to 2028 and an (also hypothetical) more favourable political environment.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

When hypothesis are based on actual recent events, rather than wishful thinking, it’s more like a sure bet…

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Depends on the terms of the peace deal.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

No words yet from Sir Keir as over 20 European leaders have made clear statements supporting Ukraine since last night’s debacle.

It’s going to be interesting to see the reaction as we no doubt continue our role of cosplaying as a great power while supporting American interests. The special relationship is like a ventriloquist with a dummy, and I know which one Starmer is.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

It's more like a ventriloquist's dummy with a dummy, with the ventriloquist behind a curtain...

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Trump has is own personal vendetta against the world for disliking him the first time round. He doesn't have the USA interests at heart like he said and is creating more world wide divide.

He's seen what Russia is getting away with and just attempting to do the same thing him self. The only deal I see coming out of talks over Ukraine is which parts of the land Russia and America are going to share between themselves

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1740855158

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/2.gif

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

They need to look closer to home, their actions made Finland join nato, so now they have a 1000 plus mile boarder with nato and are within walking distance of one of they most major cities

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/28/m...ice/index.html

It seems a bit of a security lapse for an unauthorised person to get into the Oval Office.

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Looks a bit dodgy to me! Was Trump just ensuring that his master got to see him and Vance delivering their side of the bargain as quickly as possible? ;)

Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

JD Vance's visit to Vermont ski resort interrupted by pro-Ukraine demonstrators after Zelenskyy exchange




Vance, who brought his family to Sugarbush Resort in Warren, Vermont, was greeted by a half-mile gauntlet of protesters holding pro-Ukraine signs Saturday. There appeared to be hundreds in the crowd.

The protesters carried signs calling Vance "Nazi ****," accusing him of being a "traitor" and telling him to "go ski in Russia."

Other signs said "Trump serves Putin," "Theocracy is not freedom" and "Stand with Ukraine."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jd-...nskyy-exchange

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Re: Russia has invaded Ukraine
 

Just interested to know what people think has changed in the last couple of years?

I think I’ve been consistent with my view point that Ukraine cannot win this war, cannot push back Russia to pre-2014 borders, or present border, and that this war only ends with Ukraine ceding lost territory but with guarantees (and there are many options) that there is no more chance future Russian incursion.

That is the only way out.

Pissing billions of pounds/dollars into a war that Ukraine cannot win, and soldiers continue to die in, is insanity.

Trump is right to want end it, and not fund it.