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Anyway, all very moot because there's no au pair visa and UK people don't need to learn English. |
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Many migrants heading for UK die after boat sinks
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59406355 A number of migrants headed for the UK have drowned in the Channel near Calais after their boat sank, the French government has said. French prime minister Jean Castex said the shipwreck was a "tragedy", adding those who died were victims of "criminal smugglers". Police say 27 people have died, AFP news agency has reported. The PM is to chair an emergency Cobra meeting this afternoon in response to the deaths, his spokesman said. Channel horror as more than 27 migrants drown hours after shock French police pics emerge https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...rossing-rescue French and British authorities are conducting a rescue operation in the Channel by air and sea. |
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It’s a difficult one, I have sympathy with the French, they’re under no obligation to prevent migrants leaving France.
But then there are photos of French police watching migrants leave and board boats to their deaths. So no obligation, but a responsibility………. |
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Those are two different locations - different beaches (one sand, one pebbles).
Pretty shitty reporting by the Mail/Express/etc. - no actual evidence to support that the Gendarmerie were watching people get into boats; the video is just cut scenes. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...h-Channel.html https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1637787976 https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1637787976 |
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Is that the same beach with the police vehicle there in shot? The point that you didn’t address , why would you? Instead of responding to it you’d rather obfuscate it. The French may not have an obligation, but they’re happy to see them sail off to drown. Not a moral high ground to take. |
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Pointing out the red tops are inflaming emotions by putting forward a false narrative is not obfuscation, it’s pointing out actuality.
The things the Mail and Express printed were not real, but a manufactured story made up of different pictures put together. |
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tsk tsk . . sodding media eh, fabricating photos to make us think migrants are rushing out to sea in flimsy dinghies
. . thank the lord we're not fooled |
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Migrants: French police watch on as migrants cross Channel
Dozens of migrants set out from France in broad daylight to cross the Channel. French police stood and watched as they set out in an inflatable boat and vanished over the horizon. https://news.sky.com/video/migrants-...annel-12429301 |
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The question is, which you have dodged twice, do the French have a at least a moral, if not legal (not sure about that) duty to prevent them? |
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The French are as perfidious as the Irish (governments, that is). The French don't want the migrants and they grit their teeth every time they prevent a crossing. They blame the UK for having a pull factor; we blame the EU for not controlling its borders.
Once the migrants are in the UK, with no papers, we can't currently deport them to anywhere. Are the French going to agree to them unsuccessful asylum seekers being rteurned to France? Not in my lifetime, I suspect. |
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One thing i don't understand (and perhaps someone with more knowledge than I can explain) is that, according to the news, the UK only allows requests for asylum to be made when the requestor is actually in the UK.
if that's correct why would not you not allow people to claim from their 'home country' ? would that not decrease the amount of travel? |
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It makes no sense to apply for asylum in the UK when you're in another safe country. That's why France is in the wrong to tacitly allow the migrants to leave France for the UK. Perfidious or what?
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For instance, refugees that don't speak French or who have any understanding of French culture may not feel safe there as they would be cut off from interacting with others. Also - https://fullfact.org/immigration/ref...-safe-country/ Quote:
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No one has said there isn't a migrant problem - but you knew that... |
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I think I read somewhere about the EU throwing money around to build 'immigration center' type places in or near the country of origin to cut down on the migration of people and do it 'in situ' as it were. edit: Quote:
We all know it, and have done for quite some time, pity all that gets done is even more talk about who's fault it is and how 'rules & regulations' prevent any meaningful answers |
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If true, I'm amazed it's taken twenty years of variations of these ongoings for countries to get this lightbulb moment. |
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Unfortunately, it's only a small part of the problem...
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Funnily enough, I only noticed the other week that illegal immigrants have suddenly become irregular migrants . . not that it makes a blind bit of difference to some poor bugger on a boat.
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To be fair, if it was the other way around and there were lots of people wanting to leave the UK and claim asylum in France and we didn't let them, that would be a huge scandal. Imagine what the Express and Nigel Farage would say!
"You're not allowed to go to France, could you just sit here on this beach and look after this inflatable boat for me? Make sure no-one steals it OK lads? Thanks, bye" |
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Question: If a 'migrant' got on a bus in Germany, and got off in France, are they then eligible to claim asylum in France? Similarly, if a migrant got on a ferry in France and got off in England, would they then be allowed to . . you see where this is going? edit: paid tickets of course, not stowaways |
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However, international treaties and laws can then be used to return those refugees to a previous country to process the claim - that is what the Dublin Regulation is in the EU and the option we no longer have since we left the EU. |
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More so given we can't send them back, there must be something more to it . . . :shrug: |
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Surely while part of the EU they could claim asylum on the mainland, get citizenship and then come here anyway so either way we couldn't stop them.
We do have to be mindful that some have left dreadful situations and genuinely need asylum. What is harder to accept is that far too many want to get to the UK. If they are fleeing from something then nearly anywhere safe should be OK, if they are fleeing to something it's slightly different. The threat could be as real but the goal a bit different. |
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Are you trying to tell me it's illegal for someone wanting to claim asylum, to actually cross a border to a different country in order to do so? |
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We're going around the same arguments again and again about when and how that works.
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When/why is it illegal for a refugee (or whatever they want to be known as at the time) to buy a bus/rail/ferry/plane ticket in order to get to their country of choice and claim asylum? Simple question . . . politically screwed up answer ;) |
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Where a land border exists, you can stop migrants crossing - see Poland / Belarus. It's the reason we have UK border force in France / Belgium to create that land border. The sea borders we have has complications with international maritime law. |
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Those crossing illegally will have destroyed ther documents so that they can't be returned. We're stuck with them. |
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It's highly likely that a high percentage of the migrants are economic migrants who want to come here and be paid for by the British taxpayer. Is that what you want? Make it any easier and it will ultimately be millions on their way to Europe. |
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immigration officer: morning sir, I believe you're from Sudan? migrant: no, I'm from Iraq. immigration officer: do you have any proof of that? migrant: erm no, I lost my passport. immigration officer: oh I see. Could you tell us your address and occupation when in Iraq, so we can check with friends, neighbours and work colleagues for proof? migrant: err . . . erm . . err . . immigration officer: lost your passport and your memory sir? migrant: . . . . . immigration officer: can you read this sir? (shows pamphlet) migrant: . . . . . immigration officer: forgotten the language too I see, awful what stress can do isn't it |
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If we want to have a proper discussion about what we do about refugees then we need to that using empirical data and information. Not 'I think', 'I feel' or 'I assume'. |
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In particular you have not refuted what everyone knows, and reported in the Daily Mail. Just needed the right search terms. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cord-high.html Quote:
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If he's the former chief immigration officer, then I'm sure he's explained exactly what data he is basing his view on and the Daily Mail have verified that before publishing his 'people know' comments?
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Seph: "Do you refute that most of the illegal migrants have destroyed their documents? Ben: "Without the full numerated evidence I cannot say that the illegal migrants destroy their documents". Seph: "You can't take the word of the former chief immigration officer, who surely knows his shit?" Ben: "Well, if you put it like that ....". |
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Asylum seekers and refugees destroy their documents for many reasons or leave their home countries without their documentation in the first place.
The argument above is that they do that specifically to come to the UK. That's what I'd like to the see the evidence on, and how that view was arrived at. ---------- Post added at 15:00 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ---------- Also we have laws where we can charge people with 'documentation offences' where they've destroyed their documents. I can't find this being repealed anywhere. https://www.ein.org.uk/news/law-soci...ument-offences |
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I'm not disputing they do that, but all countries dealing with refugees and asylum claims will have the same problem.
It's not unique to those coming to the UK. |
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They come here because they get access to our welfare state.
Simple solution to slow it all down is to give them nothing. Do not house them do not feed them and do not give them money. The French are more than happy to let them try and get across to us. Not their problem any more is it? Turn them back or pick them up and dump them back on the French beaches and stop taking crap from them This tragedy ultimately imo is the Frech Governments and their policy of turning a blind eyes fault Most of you here are far too liberal and likely hate Farage but he has been posting videos and reports proving the French complicity in all this for months https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEW-nd2OsAo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhosPZ5nXSI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyuSrwWl9iY Evidence showing the French escorting them into British waters. Irrefutable |
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This has to be stopped. The EU and UK need to do something drastic before they come in their multi-millions and change, eventually, our culture and society. Geopolitics (Russia, Belarus, Turkey) are the buggeration factors here and, frankly, it's not going to be stopped without deep and purposeful cooperation between the EU and the UK. Greece, Malta and Italy have coastal weaknesses like the UK has. So even if land border walls are built, Greece, Malta and Italy will need enforcement support from all parties seeking to avoid this immigration. ---------- Post added at 15:32 ---------- Previous post was at 15:29 ---------- Quote:
Macron says it's our fault because of the 'pull factor'; Patel says it's the EU's fault because they can't control their borders. ---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:32 ---------- Quote:
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This whole illegal migrants in boats "crisis" is pure deflection and is designed to pander to the prejudices of the xenophobic, Brexit voting minority and so remove the focus from the far more important problems we face at the moment. We, as a country, take fewer asylum seekers per capita than our European neighbours so have little grounds to complain.
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It is outrageous that the French are allowing this to happen. It is also outrageous that the British Press is not all over this. I would not expect the BBC to but other independent news outlets should be damning the French. The World shoudl be damning the French. They are breaking international law yet our Governement has always been to weak to do anything about it
Yes we need a strong leader that takes no crap. We have not seen one since Thatcher ( although I do not and never did support what she did but she took no crap ) and yes Farage would be that kind of leader ---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ---------- Quote:
Brexit won so majority mate..... And please do not be fooled by this Asylum seeker BS |
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Ianch is still living the Brexit referendum. A hopeless position.
He talks of deflection from other political issues and that is pure BS. Illegal immigration is an issue in its own right with huge long term implications for society (the children and the grandchildren, etc); same goes for those who overstay their visas, a deflection that he has introduced. ---------- Post added at 16:00 ---------- Previous post was at 15:58 ---------- Quote:
Those migrants come here because the taxpayer will take care of them for quite some while. You don't need a source for that - but if did need one, the French government has said nearly as much in referring to the "pull factor". |
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They get to France and then risk their lives to come here. Why? Here is what an asylum seeker gets "You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast. You cannot choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England." "Cash support You’ll get £39.63 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine. If you’ve been refused asylum You’ll be given: somewhere to live £39.63 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries You will not be given: the payment card if you do not take the offer of somewhere to live any money" "Maternity payment You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old. If you’ve been refused asylum You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old." "Healthcare You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, such as to see a doctor or get hospital treatment. You’ll also get: free prescriptions for medicine free dental care for your teeth free eyesight tests help paying for glasses" https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get Good enough for you ???? If they can get housed so easily why do we have homeless people born here, on our streets??? ---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ---------- Quote:
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When Brexit was voted for I knew any benefits from it would not be seen for a number of years. I do not rule it as failed just because things have not magically changed straight away ---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ---------- Quote:
oh and it was a copy and paste, I cannot cut text from a government website |
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Almost 26,000 'boat' people this year into the UK.
I'd estimate another 250 to 350 thousand here legally. Lets go for a rather conservative figure of 300,000 migrants into the UK this year then. That's 300,000 that need food & drink, power for heating & cooking plus a roof over their head to do it in. Jobs, benefits, or student loans to be able to have those things, with schooling and health care when required. How any was it last year . . 300,000 also? Next years estimate anyone? Close to a million extra people now aren't we . . . now look at some of the headlines lately regarding shortages and price rises. However, it's not bad news, far from it. Economic experts have revealed that migrants contribute ££thousands££ more to the UK than people born & bred here, so we're on a winner, we just can't see it ;) |
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You got sources for all that, Carth?
Ben & Andrew would need to see these! |
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sources are out there - examples: some not quite 'up to date' but you decide if they're now much different
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And by that you have to build in 'unknowns' into your data - although he got ribbed for it at the time, the Donald Rumsfeld 'Known Unknowns' and 'Unknown Unknowns' is valid way of quantifying things you don't know for analysis. ---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ---------- Quote:
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Of all the posts I made I only really expected to get pulled up on the Farage videos. Any comments on the content? the French escorting immigrants into British waters and leaving them there? Surely no one thinks that is ok ?
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or sumfink |
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I doubt anyone disagrees on what the French have done seems to be wrong. Maybe something to raise with your MP? |
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Meanwhile, behind this smokescreen of distraction, Priti Patel has been: quietly been stuffing even more punitive anti-protest powers into the policing bill Quote:
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Farage Defends 'Vile And Racist' EU Poster https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FFC_iPjX...jpg&name=small |
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No - you are the "priceless" one. The migrants issue is not by any means dwarfed by other issues, It is one of many. There is serious risk from non-documented male migrants who could be ISIS terrorists. See Lithuania for details: https://baltics.news/2021/10/15/up-t...-side-of-isis/ Quote:
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Yes, I do support the UK taking its fair share of Asylum Seekers. I am surprised you don't. |
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"Fair share" is one thing; undocumented id another and is not evidence of good faith by those migrants who have thrown away their documents. |
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The trouble is, some of those countries now have armed forces and barbed wire in place to stop them (the humanitarian EU LMAO ), or a 20 mile stretch of dangerous water to get across. |
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Stop making the UK attractive to them, and they'll stop coming.
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I don't understand why we don't allow Asylum seekers to apply from abroad. The current system incentives people to make the crossing.
Other people who may not be refugees or have been lied about how the process works would still try to make the crossing but it'll surely be easier for us to deal with those people if we took out the ones who will, eventually, be granted Asylum anyway. |
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They are NOT asylum seekers.
They have travelled VERY long distances completely safely, not only through the country they are supposed to be fleeing from, but into and through many other countries which are also supposed to be too dangerous. ---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:53 ---------- Quote:
Eg Family living safely in Turkey with a house and a job, but want to go to Canada, who turn them down. Next thing it's "dinghy time" and some of the family drowning. The survivor gets let into Canada anyway. How is that a deterrent to drownings? |
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Just a guess like, so not gonna bother posting links n stuff :D edit: aah sorry, didn't read it right, thought you meant those already here. . . point still stands though |
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Who cares? As long as it's done elsewhere - which will never happen, of course. |
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The Dublin Agreement doesn't prevent people entering a country, it's about repatriation when they do enter it. |
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So . . this Europol database thing . .
If the UK police have very good info/intel on some nasty criminal chappies that are about to do some very naughty deeds over in the EU . . we aren't allowed to mention it to them. I like the sound of that to be honest :D |
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You are no longer welcome! France CANCELS meeting with Priti Patel in wake of migrant deaths because of Boris Johnson's 'unacceptable' letter listing five key demands to end Channel tragedies
Looks like the frogs have chucked their dummies out again French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin has cancelled a Sunday meeting with his UK counterpart Priti Patel following criticism by Mr Johnson on its handling of the crisis and the lax patrolling of beaches after gendarmes were seen doing nothing as migrants launched their boats. The move - branded 'le grand snub' - has led to damning criticism in the UK with Macron and his ministers accused of 'forgetting 27 people died two days ago'. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-migrants.html |
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Course the French were going to act like this. The actively want the problem away from them as I showed yesterday. The last thing they want is methods in place to take them back or keep them. I am seriously sure they do not like the spotlight on them because they are guilty as sin and should all be ashamed
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