Re: Brexit
 

Not so sure - he is not on the front bench in the Commons, I would have thought if he supports the PM, he would be there. Probably sharpening those knives he used in Boris's back.

Re: Brexit
 

Shuffle a deck of cards enough times and you'll eventually get dealt a good hand ;)

unless you didn't remove the jokers

Re: Brexit
 

As I said, watch him......

Re: Brexit
 

"Strong and stable"...

Re: Brexit
 

Oh, and Dominic Grieve, branded a hypocrite for tabling an amendment asking for a parliamentary vote is now helping the ERG types to defeat this agreement. Without the amendment in the exit bill, this agreement will now be set in stone from the UK side.

Re: Brexit
 

the most true thing she said at election was coalition of chaos she just forget to say she meant herself

Re: Brexit
 

Sneer? Smear? Calm down ...

Raab had a job called the "Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union". The role is sort of obvious really. Anyone who is paid as the "Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union" and isn't in charge of "Exiting the European Union" is a fraud. He is in Cabinet to do a job and is responsible for his portfolio. Period ..

Re: Brexit
 

Well there is no word from Michael Gove’s team about where he is as its complete silence. Is he plotting?

Re: Brexit
 

Is it true? ;)

Elon Musk has arrived at 10 Downing Street with a submarine

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

You are blinded by your anger. Rabb was in charge by definition. If he wasn't in charge and did not resign as a consequence then he is a fraud. Simples ..

Re: Brexit
 

Mark Francois, a Tory Brexiter and a member of the European Research Group says 84 Tory MPs planning to vote against May's deal.

Re: Brexit
 

as I always said Den no way will it get past parliament

Beth Rigby
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Seems that confidence and supply deal with the DUP is over. May running a minority govt (for) now

Re: Brexit
 

Not a chance Dave.

---------- Post added at 11:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 ----------

Will the last person to leave the cabinet please turn out the lights.

Re: Brexit
 

My word you do miss a lot memo's.

You need to stop this arguing with people with baseless rubbish all the time.

Pay attention - everyone knows, or should do that it was Civil servants working behind the scenes on the Brexit negotiations. Raab was just there to represent the British Government as the top minister for DeXeu.

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

That's exactly how George Osborne feels in today's edition of the Evening Standard...

https://twitter.com/George_Osborne/s...26402386235393

Revenge is a dish, best served cold.

Re: Brexit
 

You really do need to get a grip on reality. Raab was the cabinet minister *responsible* for the United Kingdom's withdrawal from the European Union. As such, he signs off any deal. If he didn't, he's an idiot. If he did, he's a fraud. Maybe he is both ..

Re: Brexit
 

This is from the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg.


And David Mundell The Scotland secretary gives us his view on Raab.

Re: Brexit
 

Looking forwards to a collapsed government and a no deal brexit. Might shut these remain voters up

Re: Brexit
 

Corbyn might get the election at this rate

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

Yes have a disaster happen will really show Remainers up

Re: Brexit
 

Suggestion from Commons sources that that May will stay in the House after the statement and see Graham Brady at 1.30pm.

It seems 48 letters have been received - the threshold needed for a vote of no confidence to go ahead.

Re: Brexit
 

maybe they are all love letters ? She's actually not bad looking. Must book that Specsavers appointment....

Re: Brexit
 

The Telegraph’s Steven Swinford claims that Michael Gove, the environment secretary, has been offered the post of Brexit secretary.

Re: Brexit
 

least it can shut them up for a year when they fail to oust her

Re: Brexit
 

Another Conservative MP has resigned as a parliamentary private secretary (PPS) over the Brexit deal. This is from Ranil Jayawardena, who was a PPS at the Ministry of Justice.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Re: Brexit
 

Yup, it is all their fault :) A punishment Brexit it is then ..

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

What's the point? It is only a figurehead position after all ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Go back you've been robbed.

Re: Brexit
 

According to the Evening Standard, edited by the former Tory chancellor George Osborne, Michael Gove has turned down an offer to replace Dominic Raab as Brexit secretary.

Re: Brexit
 

Buckle up. No deal here we come.

Re: Brexit
 

A crafty move by TM to try and trap oily snake Gove. However he's not that daft, he'll bide his time and pounce when the time is right and most of his opponents are gonners.

---------- Post added at 13:56 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

It won't happen. The deadline will be moved or a way will be found. No Govt. or the EU want no deal, no good for anyone.

Re: Brexit
 

Just watched rees mogg interview ,no holds barred on sticking the boot into may.

Re: Brexit
 

He's a softie ;)

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/11/9.jpg

Re: Brexit
 

Well this deal isn’t going to happen. Labour will vote against any deal, many Tory’s will vote against anything that isn’t a hard Brexit. Liberal, SNP will vote against anything that isn’t staying in the EU.

I don’t see a way out of it.

Re: Brexit
 

Who knows what’s going to happen now. Everything else is up in the air.

Re: Brexit
 

BBC’s Norman Smith.

Re: Brexit
 

They can join the streams of other campaigns trying for Second Referendum. They forgetting one important detail. Brexit is enshrined in to law. Going to need an act of Parliament to undo it.

Re: Brexit
 

No point is going back to Brussels it seems:

Theresa May's Brexit deal is best we can do, Brussels warns

Re: Brexit
 

Of course, in return for SNP votes, she could tie Scotland into the same arrangements as NI for a more intimate EU relationship in the Withdrawal Agreement.

What is there for her to lose?

Re: Brexit
 

The Telegraph’s Steven Swinford says Michael Gove, the environment secretary, is telling Theresa May that he will only take the Brexit secretary job if he can renegotiate the deal.

Re: Brexit
 

Who thinks there will be a general election coming soon?

Re: Brexit
 

Hearing on the wire that Theresa May to give Press Conference at 5PM outside Downing Street.

Re: Brexit
 

To discuss the deal l think.

Re: Brexit
 

That happened yesterday and today in the Commons. This is something more ominous.

Re: Brexit
 

Probably going to say she will fight leadership challenge .

Re: Brexit
 

Guido Fawkes’ Tom Harwood reports.

Re: Brexit
 

He'd be best positioned to do that if he was PM ;) Watch the oily snake climb the ladder....

Re: Brexit
 

YouGov has released some polling on Theresa May’s Brexit deal. The details are here.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...ck-brexit-deal

Sky Data polling as well just released.

https://interactive.news.sky.com/BREXIT1_151118.pdf

Re: Brexit
 

Saw this in the NewsThump site (humour/satire)

Other humour/satire sites are available...

Re: Brexit
 

This "agreement" has nothing to do with "deal or no deal". That "phase" comes afterwards, IF the EU allows it.

---------- Post added at 16:58 ---------- Previous post was at 16:55 ----------

Then whatever issues the EU is supposed to have with a non-border between NI and Ireland, would also exist in a non-border between Scotland and England.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:58 ----------

It is NOT a deal of any sort, only interim arrangements.

Re: Brexit
 

Tim Shipman the Sunday Times Political Editor says senior people in government still expecting Penny Mordaunt to resign today.

Re: Brexit
 

Proper history happening today folks - essays and theses will be written about this in years to come...

Re: Brexit
 

If nothing else, this deal has managed to get remainers and leavers on the same side.

Re: Brexit
 

Sam Coates from Times just said a Souce just claimed No. 10 expecting Gove to resign tonight.

Also just now Penny Mordaunt just arrived in Number 10.

Re: Brexit
 

Never rains but it pours. :D

Re: Brexit
 

has anyone been seen singing in the rain? :D

Re: Brexit
 

Not me. A new PM at most - the Conservatives do not want to call an election at this volatile time.

Re: Brexit
 

No way there'll be a GE or another referendum. The EU say no renegotiation of May's doomed plan so it's proper Brexit. Which is what the people voted for. For better or worse.

Re: Brexit
 

They reckon that there is not sufficient support in the Commons for a no-deal Brexit. They also reckon that there is no support for the best deal we can get from Brussels.

So it seems to me that if both are voted down, we have no agreement in the Commons for either Brexit we can get. So all TM has to do is sit back and do nothing more on this. We will drop out of the EU automatically on 29 March, so we will be in a no-deal Brexit.

So if that is the actual choice that is put to Parliament, MPs will have to vote for the deal, or we are out without one. It really is as simple as that. It has been made clear to us by the EU negotiators that this is as far as they are prepared to go.

Re: Brexit
 

Sky Data Survey

In terms of who they would prefer to lead the country through Brexit:
Theresa May - 31%
Jeremy Corbyn - 25%
Jacob Rees-Mogg - 18%
Boris Johnson - 17%
Dominic Raab - 10%

In terms of where they now stand on Brexit:
54% would prefer to remain in the EU
32% would prefer to leave the EU without a deal
14% would prefer a Brexit on the terms negotiated by the government.

Regarding a referendum on these three options:
55% - support a referendum
35% - oppose a referendum
10% - don't know

Sky Data interviewed a nationally representative sample of 1,488 Sky customers via SMS on 15 November 2018. Data are weighted to the profile of the population.
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-...-poll-11555078

Re: Brexit
 

I can prove anything with these stats, but the truth.

1,488 sky customers, bear in mind about 65,000,000 live in the UK so those stats are crap.

As TM there will NOT be a 2nd referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Great to have someone from Sky Data services hopping on this forum to bring their insights to the forum. Thank you. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

From your link

Re: Brexit
 

This is the bottom line, there is no third way.

It’s either this deal, or no deal. I’m not sure what people expected.......

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

1488 is approx 0.0032% of those that voted in the referendum. I don’t care how it was weighted, it is not representative.

Re: Brexit
 

They expected neither so don't forget option d :)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46228454

Re: Brexit
 

I'm sure you live in hope that it will all go tits up and we will be once again one big happy family in the EU.

It's too late for that now we can't go back on the same terms we left on. I see no deal as the only option to stop us from getting shafted

Re: Brexit
 

I'm just reporting a news story. I felt the leader question more important than the others so I put that first. But don't let that stop you drawing hasty conclusions.
I actually think May's plan will happen. There's no united hard leave side, just a bunch of ego-heavy personalities without a plan.

Re: Brexit
 

So what you're saying is, we shouldn't have voted to leave because we'll be in a worse position than now ??

Its taken time, but the penny has dropped for Brexiters.

Re: Brexit
 

I’m not sure she’s got the numbers.

Labour have said they’ll vote against anything the Tory’s come back with, and KS confirmed yesterday, and the majority will vote with the whip.

SNP will be against.

LibDems will be against

At least 80+ Tory’s will be against.

DUP will be against and other N.I MPs probably will be.

1 green will be against

Unless Labour go with it, it ain’t going to happen..................

---------- Post added at 21:39 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

That’s quite obviously what he’s not saying.

Mod Edit - abusive comment removed

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

Doesn’t make me wrong.

Seriously, I apologise. However, it was an inflammatory statement designed to provoke a response. I didn’t want to disappoint.

Re: Brexit
 

Penny dropped? you are kidding right? we need to leave without a deal, make free trade around the world. Tell the EU to stuff the 40bn we owe them and only make concessions to pay that back when they can offer a reasonable trade deal.

We are the first country to ever leave the block and like any divorce there has to be a settlement on both sides. The EU were happy to demand payments we owe for future commitments but not so quick to return on investments we have contributed to over the years of our membership.

When people voted to have a trade deal with the EU first time around there wasn't a referendum offered when the EU wanted to expand on what they are now. Nobody was given a choice and asked if that is what they wanted, Cameron as stupid as he was thought he had it all in one bag when he offered a referendum clearly those that advise him didn't see how upset the public were.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

That's probably an inept phrase but I think a lot of Leavers were sold an impossible dream. Many tried to explain this to them but were understandably not believed at the time. So, I can understand many having buyer's remorse. This guy here has got it particularly badly. https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...es-for-brexit/

Re: Brexit
 

<-- Well this guy hasn't and still wants to leave the EU. It can be done and it's not impossible, I don't care what you Remainers say. It should be a Brexiteer leading the country not a weak Remainer.

Re: Brexit
 

This agreement is not a proposed deal in any sense of the word. It is not a case of "agree to this" and everything is done and dusted. Any possible deal has yet to be specified.

Re: Brexit
 

Well, the deal has been negotiated over two years and this is as close as we can get to an agreement. It's the only deal in town, so we need to accept it or reject it. No other options are available.

If the opposition parties all vote against the deal, then we will leave without a deal.

That is a fact, and if the opposition does vote the agreement down, the electorate will never forgive them when they see the short term disruption after March next year, which they will come to realise could be avoided. At that point, Theresa May will be hailed as the only politician who appeared to know what she was doing.

Very few like the deal because it doesn't do everything we want. We could have taken a harder line, as David Davis was doing, but his stance was not working and the EU were not budging. He might have been right, the EU might have had to give way in the end, but TM determined that we could not risk the consequences of getting too close to the wire.

My main concern with this agreement, which is only about our 21 month transition, by the way, is the issue of the customs union. I and many others will want to be assured that there is no way we will be tied into this forever because this will mean we cannot do our own trade deals.

Re: Brexit
 

If this is the final deal, then how come all it seems to mention is allowing freedom of movement, special arrangements for NI, having to follow EU rules, and the UK having to obey the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU)?

Re: Brexit
 

No one's saying it's impossible to leave, just that what was promised could never match reality.I too would have preferred a Brexiter sorting out the situation they advocated but we did have a couple of Brexit secretaries one of whom resigned over the deal he helped negotiate, lol. Maybe a Leave Prime Minister would have resigned over a deal they helped negotiate too.;)

Re: Brexit
 

Because its a rubbish deal, signed in a panic because of the stupid deadline we set ourselves. However its the best we're going to get now. As i've said all along the EU hold all the cards, our position is weak hence the deal we've got.

I'm beginning to think May might get this through if she paints the alternative as an apocalypse 'no deal' or Corbyn Govt. MPs always will vote for themselves first, country second. Slowly but surely they'll come onside and there might be a rebellion in the Labour ranks which might be enough.

Re: Brexit
 

Jonathan Isaby, editor of BrexitCentral.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46228454

Re: Brexit
 

tbh they would say that. We're on the run and they have us by the short and preverbials.....

So to sum up, we've managed to negotiate virtually the status quo for an absurd amount of money, and made sure we have little say on how its spent in future. Isn't Brexit fantastic? We've really taken back control... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

It's not a proper Brexit though is it? :rolleyes:

It's weak negotiating skills from Remainer civil servants in Downing Street.

Re: Brexit
 

No, he's saying that this is what TM's deal will result in and therefore we would be wise to go for no deal.

I am more sanguine than this, and although a no deal I am happy to live with, I do acknowledge that the deal on the table will be better for industry, which is important.

I worry about that backstop, but other than that, the withdrawal agreement is a step in the right direction towards full sovereignty.

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 ----------

Impossible dream? Come on, Andrew, a no deal is what many Brexiteers want and of course that is possible. However, the withdrawal agreement is more pragmatic. Many, however, don't want to wait to get everything in two years.

---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------

Nonsense, Mr K. How is it 'virtually the status quo'?

This is the withdrawal agreement, not the trade deal, and is designed to last 21 months. During that period, we get back control of immigration policy, agricultural and fisheries policies and everything in that list that TM read out yesterday. The rest comes later.

All this is taking a long time, which Brexiteers are annoyed about, but there is no practical alternative in honouring the referendum than this, except the hard Brexit, which will never be accepted by Parliament.

Re: Brexit
 

Micheal Gove is staying lbc reporting

Re: Brexit
 

The next two years is just a transition period, of course.

Re: Brexit
 

Ah, the oily snake twist again. He'll have been calculating his best chance of grabbing power when May falls.

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:55 ----------

Of course it is OB ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Laura Kuenssberg.

Re: Brexit
 

Bet he persuaded his colleagues.to resign :D

Re: Brexit
 

Maybe he appreciates he has a serious job to do?

Re: Brexit
 

Don't be silly he works for DEFRA.

Re: Brexit
 

I knew he wouldn't resign..

Re: Brexit
 

You must be a townie...:D

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

This is from the Sunday Times’ Tim Shipman.

Re: Brexit
 

What's wrong with the ECHR? Nothing to do with the EU (though you have to be a member to join the EU) and is specifically mentioned in the Good Friday Agreement. We have been a member since 1949 and are one of the founding members.

Re: Brexit
 

It's got the world 'European' in it which makes some see red for some reason.

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

I picked the ECHR as this is a good example of where nations cede sovereignty through international agreements outside of the EU. We have agreed for example to not allow trade in endangered species (CITES), not develop chemical weapons (CWC) or endanger the ozone layer (Montreal Protocol) Not mentioning the other points does not imply agreement with your points but I understand you position on the EU even though we disagree.

I guess from the link you posted, you were talking about the case of Abu Qatada whose extradition was blocked on the grounds of Article 3 (torture) and Article 6 (fair trial) He was subsequently deported to Jordan after Jordan signed an agreement to not use evidence gained through torture against him.

There is an inherent nature of human rights agreements such as ECHR or the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights that they apply to all humans by their very nature without prejudice. To state human rights apply to some but not others suggest that some are human and not others.

Re: Brexit
 

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"Amber Rudd is going back into cabinet" - @AmberRuddHR MP has been appointed work and pensions secretary, according to Sky sources.

Re: Brexit
 

Cede sovereignty is probably going a bit far with that example. We signed up to adhere to the convention and any rulings are over seen by the court for it.

The EHCR does not propose or impose law. But I take your point.

Another interesting example is OSPAR, another entity we will still be party to after Brexit.

They do propose propose decisions that member states may be expected to enact into law.

Most of the lauded environmental law that the Greens and so forth lay at the EU door, is in fact from OSPAR and not the EU. Another myth dispelled.