Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

London is major global financial centre linked to another Global financial centre, New York, directly by several trans-Atlantic fibre cables.

Latency across this link is a major issue, and one which drove the installation of new cable a couple of years ago. there is in excess of £9 billion worth of financial transactions of all kinds done every day between these to centres.

IF you move to Frankfurt, Paris, or mostly anywhere on continental Europe you are extending the distance to New York and therefore putting yourself at a disadvantage.

THe only way there would be a mass exodus of financial companies out of London is if everybody did it at the same time, and then there would be the speculators that would stay.

Chances are you will see the rise of a European financial hub, probably Frankfurt, that will be the main trader with London and other Global Hubs but London will remain as a "Global" financial hub.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Yes. As always, the question is how much of the City will move to Europe and how much will stay behind. Over time, infrastructure such as that which you list can be replicated by other countries but the legal factors and cultural ones which the UK has may be harder for those countries to get close to.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Gawd, how many more pages and pages of reassurance do you need? Everything is going to be alright. Really. Honestly. We wouldn't lie to you. We are red, white and blue all the way through.

Have a lay down in a darkened room for a couple of years and when you come out all the big worrisome problems will be sorted out. Ok? :p:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

its post brexiaworrywartia syndrome -he just needs to eat something British once a day ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He's already had to eat quite a bit of humble pie :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

So, the same politicians that nobody believed when they talked about other things, and were calling lying crooks who only were bothered about their own self-interest, are now suddenly trustworthy?

OK then....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Nice post but regrettably nothing to do with the post you chose to quote. If you revisit my post, you will see it's about how much/how little of the City of London will have to move to the EU and the timescale in which this will have to happen.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

(iirc) The other point in favour of London remaining a major financial hub is the issue of time zones. London is perfectly situated to deal with both the far east and the usa.......as one goes to sleep the other wakes up......and we are in the middle.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That advantage is shared by the rest of Europe though with Ireland having exactly the same time as us.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

And now it may move to Ireland.

It will be interesting to see if remainers are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Then again certain busnisses may fund it.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...MCNEWEML6619I2

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It will also be interesting to see if some leavers contribute too, as they have done with the current Article 50 challenge.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Politicians will be aware that their accountability will increase as a consequence of our regained sovereingty. It's up to us to keep them in line ;).

I quoted your latest post as a means to engage you: the theme of your posting is of Brexit being wholly negative and, with respect, that is self-defeating given the inevitability of our EU departure.

Sorry, I was a little rude :).

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Will you now step up and keep our politicians in line alongside Gina Miller, Deir Dos Santos, Grahame Pigney? Or will you be happy to look the other way and hand our politicians a blank cheque to do as they wish with regard to our future relationship with the EU?

---------- Post added at 00:54 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

No worries. My main point was correcting the perception that the City has 4.5 years to adapt. It doesn't. That's a factual statement, nothing to do with Brexit being positive or negative.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It is precisely because in the past that politicians had "blank cheque" about the EU that people voted to leave. If we stayed in the EU they would still have that "blank cheque". So why is that "blank cheque" now supposedly not to be used to leave the EU?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There was a debate on facebook and this was one comment from a user.

"Depends how you look at it. If you think of yourself as European then Brussels is our elected parliament, issuing our European laws and people from Poland working in the U.K. or Brits retiring in Spain aren't migrants"

One of his justifications for voting in.

The biggest fear is the big MD's everything has been done for them they don't have to work to strike up deals because someone in the EU has done it for them...the Fear is they might have to actually work to earn that money now.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I will not be aligning myself with that ragbag bunch of self-serving time wasters and all blank Czechs will be repatriated. :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If we assumed that the first part of your statement is correct, two wrongs don't make a right. If you believed that there was insufficient scrutiny before, then why accept that now?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Because of the problems it has caused .As Kursk said our MP's will now be more accountable so it's up to us to make sure they know that .It's ok voting to leave but we can't just sit back thinking the job is done ,it's up to the Gina Millers of the world to ensure our politicians do as we want

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The point is that the same people who thought it ok to have a "blank cheque" and are happy with what it brought, would still be happy with a "blank cheque" as long as things were done THEIR way.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That doesn't mean that we need to accept such lower standards does it?

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So it's upto us to make sure a blank cheque isn't issued .It does look like it's going to be the remainers that are prepared too step up to the plate because from their prospective they have more to lose

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The point is, who is the "we". It is only one side. The English and Leave voters don't seem to have a say. If the vote had been to stay, then the Remain side would be more than happy with a "blank cheque" to continue, because they are the only ones allowed to fill it out.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

How can you possibly know that ? I think it highly likely that if the vote result was reversed then serious questions would be asked about our relationship with the EU because the leavers would certainly not have been satisfied with the status quo

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Indeed and Nigel Farage confirmed he would carry on fighting if he lost 48%-52%. http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/rememb...endum-5963900/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But by the backdoor in the Law courts? Or just by persuading more people? Which is democratic and which is authoritarian in nature? When the Left and Liberals don't get to impose that ways, they have a big hissy fit over it. People are not allowed to have views that they don't agree with. It's a gradual brainwashing. Unauthorised thoughts are not allowed.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Your argument is based on incorrect information. These are points of fact, not opinion.
1. The Article 50 court case is not about challenging the decision to leave the EU, it's about the process of involving Parliament.
2. The Article 50 court case is supported by remainers and leavers alike. Deir Dos Santos for example is a leave supporter.
3. How do you presume to know the voting intentions of the people involved? Hedge fund managers like Gina Miller aren't usually left-wing voters.

So, you're seeing a court decision, misbelieveing that it's about stopping Brexit, assuming that the challengers are all left wing remainers in the face of evidence to the contrary and getting annoyed about it. Good news is that that is not the case on any account so you can relax and as martyh suggests, step up and support the democratic process.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

How on earth is going through the law courts 'the backdoor' Our law courts are fundamental to our democracy .The very fact that a question is being allowed to be asked via the law courts is extremely democratic ,the other option is dictatorial .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The Law courts are not democratic by any means. If the Judges based things purely on Law there would be no overturning of decisions, unanimous decisions where more than one Judge is used, eg Supreme Court, no arguments over "which side" a Judge is on when they are appointed. The list goes on.

If invoking Article 50 is invalid, then a whole host of other things connected to the EU are also invalid. What other things were agreed and approved by Parliament before the Treaties, Directives etc were signed?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Judges are not on any particular side and base all their decisions on their interpretation of law. Are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The law courts are democratic they uphold the laws set by parliament ,the two are permanently linked

Overturning decisions made in law courts is based on new evidence/arguments not available previously, not based on 'whatever side the judge is on'

Nobody has ever suggested that invoking A50 is invalid ,the only argument is who invokes it ,does the PM have the authority? or is it solely in the domain of Parliament ?,the courts have ruled that Parliament is responsible because Parliament is the supreme authority.The reason why is because legislation will have to be removed from the statute books and new legislation introduced as a direct result of invoking A50 ,certainly not because of how the judges felt towards the EU

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

so what happens if the supreme court returns a split decision ie some think the law is X and some think its Y

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's why it is made up of an odd number of judges. There will always be a decision.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There's 11 judges ,the most votes either way wins ,further proof that our courts are a democratic process

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But if the decisions are purely based on Law they all decisions must be unanimous, mustn't they? If Judges X & Y have differing judgements, then in a case with a single Judge deciding, the decision could go either way depending on whether it was Judge X or Judge Y that was presiding.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

i thought the law had to be clear not a matter of divided opinion - we already have a divided opinion .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No not at all ,higher courts have more than one judge so that a majority decision is reached in interpreting law,in these instances the judges are making the judgement .In criminal courts ,murder cases for example ,a single judge sits in authority but does not make any judgements of guilt or innocence ,that's the jury's job but again the same democratic principle applies and the majority vote is applied .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Makes no difference. If you have a pool of Judges with differing opinions, then the outcome could be decided purely on the makeup of those selected, whether it is 3 or whatever number. It still could be based on a majority of one and which "side" that Judge was on.

From some of the Appeal court rulings that I've seen, one Judge takes the lead and writes the reasons for the ruling and the others just say that they agree or disagree. If there are 3 Judges, then there isn't 3 sets of reasons and rulings.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No it couldn't .A particular judge will voice his opinion on why a decision should go one way or the other ,he or she will then justify that reasoning with legal argument that other judges may or may not agree with ,Eventually a consensus will be reached where a majority of the judges will have their arguments accepted .No where in the process is 'how a judge feels' or 'what side' a judge is on is accepted as sound legal argument

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It will be reflected in which way they decide to rule on issues. They might not play Devil's Advocate if something is opposite to what they believe in. They can make a ruling based upon spurious reasons that can easily be discounted and overturned, if it wasn't the Supreme Court where no appeals are allowed.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That simply is completely wrong

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

They are human and as such have biases. The law, in this case, is open to interpretation. Therefore, their biases could sway their interpretation of the law. :shrug:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

i read that most of them have an attachment to the EU that is likely to sway their opinion in a certain direction [not sure on the validity of that but if true its not good ]

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Laid out here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...-7-4-decision/

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

When judges make judgements they go to great pains to explain how and why they reached that judgement,they issue pages and pages of summaries ,they do not make judgements based on how they feel or what their politics are.We have many checks and balances to ensure that the judiciary remains independent from politics ,i think it was around 2010 that the judicial function of parliament was ended and the supreme court established .We now have Executive, Legislature and Judiciary all acting as a check on the other separating the powers and ensuring there is no bias in law .

I cannot believe the paranoia surrounding this court case.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Me neither, I thought it was what people voted for, for British judges to make decisions regarding the law. Iirc one of the plebs that brought the latest case is a conservative councilor who has campaigned for leaving Europe for 20 years, still I bet those credentials aren't enough for some to start questioning his intentions, like on here when some dunderhead calls me a remoaner

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

You need to stop reading your wildly influential daily newspapers papa as the old motto is only believe 5% of what you read in the newspapers as 95% of it is bollocks and propaganda.;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's exactly what we voted for ,trouble is the fear that Brexit will be snatched away seems to overtake some peoples common sense .What's annoying me with some Brexiters is that for years people have rightly complained that the EU is slowly taking over the supreme authority of Parliament but as soon as someone suggests that Parliaments authority is exercised then people start moaning .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I sense even those who voted for 'Brexit' aren't happy at the moment. Starting to get a bit sick of the word. What does it mean ? Nobody knows, but they have to keep justifying it to themselves anyway....

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I don't like the colours that keep being associated with it, gray, pink, and of course red, white and blue, at this rate and going by some of the anger shown the next one will be a black and blue brexit

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

its ok the government are doing it in crayon so the remain camp can get their heads around it ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Nothing to worry about, that's just a little confirmation bias on your part. ;)

I'm quite a happy Brexiteer right now.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Same here; everything is going to plan (cue remoaning "but there is no plan....:sleep:"). Now, just one little adjustment at the BoE and we're sorted :)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm happy enough too!:D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Looks like Mystic Mr K and his crystal balls has got it wrong ;)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But you don't know what you're getting do you ? It could be anything from all but EU membership in name, to total head in the sand isolationalism. But as long as you're happy, that's good I guess :)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

And as long as you're coming along for the ride (which you are) we're ecstatic :) Liberté, Equalité, Fraternité.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

We're the global finance centre of a world that speaks our language, we are tapped in to trade links that connect us to just about everywhere and we travel with a passport that gives us visa-free access to more places in the world than almost any other.

Do you seriously think "isolationism" is anywhere on the range of possible outcomes when we leave an association comprising just 27 out of the 195 other countries in the world?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He means isolated from Magaloof and Ibeefa :)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

On reflection let's stay in the EU where, after decades of banging our heads against a wall, we can see quite clearly the financial and social chaos which lies around the corner yet won't be able to do anything about it. Now that's a really good idea eh?... :rolleyes:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The only thing we ain't happy about is numpties who keep saying we aren't happy and are regretting voting out

---------- Post added at 15:09 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

Ah but don't you know that once we leave the EU it will immediately become the utopia it was always meant to be

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I haven't met anyone who regrets voting out. I only know of one on this forum who did it as a "protest" vote. Is it people like him who you are referring to a numpties?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That's evidently what some deluded folk are clinging to by way of reasoning. :D

I haven't regretted my vote either FWIW and don't know anyone else who has.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No ,people like Mr K constantly banging on about how much we regret voting out

Although using a referendum as a protest vote does meet the criteria of numptyism

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

TBH, I was never happy with the way the government appeared to be trying to keep Parliament out of the process when one of the big selling points of the leave campaign was returning control from some unelected "elite" to our Parliament. Bear in mind that Theresa May, while elected, was not the leader of the party during the last election, so it's doubtful most of the people who voted for her were thinking about her being Prime Minister when they voted, so she cannot claim she was voted in as Prime Minister any more than any leader of the EU can claim to have been voted in.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

We don't vote for a prime minister though

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

no we vote for the party the party picks a leader .

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Interesting statistic I heard the other day - half of the Prime Ministers we have had in the UK weren't leaders of their parties when people voted in the relevant election. (I think half is by number of Prime Ministers and not by the length of time they were in power.)

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Perhaps the Government is carrying on the wish of Cameron who stated if the result was to leave he would invoke A50 straight away. I didn't hear anyone in Parliament or anywhere else raising an objection. That would've been the correct time to do so.

Once the vote was to leave what did Cameron do? He ran away! At least Teresa May is attempting to carry out the promise made to the people made by her lilly livered predecessor.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

He just got a big sulk on and ran off with his ball .I don't want someone with that attitude running the country anyway

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Odd that GaryL disappeared around the same time eh? Maybe he was DC's alter ego... :shrug: :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I was going to mention that I've been left holding his set of crayons and colouring book. :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

There any crayons in that box, I heard he ate them all

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'd like to play poker with you, I'd get rich quick as you would show your hand so easily.:dunce:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

It's not actually a card game. Asking for more details about what the government is seeking to achieve on one of the biggest deals we're going to see for this country is justified. It doesn't fill people who are worried with confidence when every single aspect of the coming years is watered down to the simplest possible terms.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Oh bloody marvellous! :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:48 ----------

No it isn't. For the simple reason that the EU will be able to see that information as well.

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

I was just going to suggest that.......but then I found a brain cell to use :D

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

That Telegraph article is a bit dubious. Seems entirely made up for clicks:

If 7-4, 63% of the sitting court, makes it hard for Remain to push their case forward then should that logic apply to the referendum where only 52% went for Leave?

---------- Post added at 19:55 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

The EU will know it anyway. Besides it's clear that they'll be briefing out what is happening so we'll just get it from them.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

we've got to tell the EU what we want from them post Brexit anyway or it will be a very odd sort of negotiation :confused:

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

You never did see them in the same room

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

What we need to do is to set out broadly what our aims are without detailing exactly what concessions we're prepared to make before the negotiating starts. IMHO that'd include not guaranteeing the future of EU migrants here until the EU has agreed to do likewise.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Telling them well in advance of negotiations would allow them to set up stern resistance to our stance, or have time to manoeuvre the lawyers into position. After all, it will be a lawyer' fest, the trough will runneth over.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm sure all the lawyers are in position. Surely the sooner we tell the EU our position the sooner we can leave?
Agreed. This should also help speed matters along which I'm sure will find favours with those who want to leave quickly.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

OMG what do think is actually happening ? we will be trying to negotiate a exit deal that will be beneficial to us as well as the rest of the EU ,it's not a war

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

The Government starts to appreciate the practicalities of Brexit.


Chancellor urges Brexit interim deal
Mr Hammond told the Treasury select committee that there was an "emerging view" that having longer would tend towards a "smoother transition" .
There would be "less risks of disruption" including "crucially risks to financial stability", he added.
However, both business and government would have to make changes, he said.
His comments are being seen as the strongest signal yet from the government that the Brexit process could take a lot longer than the two years needed for the official Article 50 exit process to be completed.
Link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38295358

David Davis requests ‘specific numbers’ on Brexit from car chiefs
David Davis has said he will take a “data driven” approach to Brexit negotiations as he was lobbied by senior motor industry executives anxious about the effects on their sector of leaving the EU.
Mr Davis reportedly asked those present what impact trade barriers would have on British motor plants. “This would allow [the government] to weigh up the options going into negotiations [with the EU],” said one executive.
Incurring tariffs on car exports and imports would cost the UK motor industry around £4.5bn a year, the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders has previously calculated.
Link: Google above headline in bold/subscibers can use https://www.ft.com/content/e428f2b8-...2-f57d90f6741a

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No. We need to tell them our position when we are ready to, not when remainers want us to.
Gawd, this is like talking to children. :dozey:

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If you disagree with people you shouldn't belittle them. This is meant to be a discussion.
As you can see from the posts here, it's also people who voted leave that wish the Government to set out its aims.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No there shouldn't be an interim deal and our exit should follow two years after article 50 is invoked in march no pratting about and no dragging it out. If our government doesn't feel it can negotiate an acceptable deal in two years then sack the current lot and get a team that can do it. Hammond was a remain supporter and him talking of dragging it out will set alarm bells ringing amongst a lot of people.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Do you believe that he's conspiring to thwart Brexit?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Certainly not! I took the comment to mean that we would shortly be seeing Mr Hammond dressed in a fetching pair of little used women's leather trousers ;).

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think there are some in the remain camp who'd see any means as acceptable if it meant we stayed in the EU, some because they have got too used to letting the EU do most of the work they are supposed to do. Others because the loss of such a lucrative trough when we vote them out is just too much of a sacrifice and then you have the true believers such as the lib dems. I still maintain cameron knew what he was doing with how he setup the referendum to gaurantee as much trouble as possible with the whole process.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Our exit will follow after 2 years regardless ,the only thing that can extend negotiations is approval by all member countries ,that is built into the rules in A50 and is not open to interpretation .

---------- Post added at 06:53 ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 ----------

Once again ,we are negotiating a trade deal not fighting a war ,the sooner everyone knows what we want the sooner we can get on and get the job done .We do not need secrecy and bluffs ,a good trade deal is not obtained by keeping your objectives secret

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

If i could be certain the EU would be as open and transparent as some want our government to be i wouldn't mind but given the EU's past I'm not optimistic. I doubt hammond would have gone public with the interim deal and a longer then two year exit unless it was an option the government was considering.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

A50 has nothing to do with trade deals per se, they must be done separately. All A50 entails is the terms of our exit.

eg

How much.

Status of EU immigrants here and our expats etc.

Source

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the...rticle-50.html

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

But what about the person I asked you about - Philip Hammond? Do you believe he is conspiring to thwart Brexit?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

No he could be responding and agreeing with this Lords report.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...MCNEWEML6619I2

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

this chaps not happy with him

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/742...olitics-Brexit

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

What's Farage threatening to do? Stand for Westminster Parliament? Ironically, it's only the EU that's allowed him to become elected, his attempts at becoming an MP in Westminster have been unsuccessful.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

Because our system values depth of local support for an individual over breadth of national support for his party. That's just the way it is, and I believe most of the time it works out for the best in our country.

However I do wish people would stop using Farage's failure to win depth of support in one town in the south of England as a spurious argument against his, or his party's, general popularity in the country. Given the millions of votes UKIP gained in 2015, such an argument is preposterous.

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I'm not saying that he's unpopular. I don't think the electoral system is fair to Ukip and I think it should be reformed.
However, in the context of the Daily Express article, I'm asking what Farage intends to do as he is threatening to return to British politics, he's no longer Ukip leader so what are his options bearing in mind his lack of success as an MP in Thanet. Would he do better in another seat?

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

this chaps not happy either

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/742...-brexit-racist

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

I think this is the first time ever that I can say I agree with him!

Re: Post-Brexit Thread
 

My rule of thumb is to go with the opposite of what he says. :)