Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

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- - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHanff (Post 34537397)

Incidentally, Kent stated on Tuesday (eventually after lots of prying by the BBC) that the services are going to roll out in the next few weeks. Of course, we already know this to be untrue because BT have not even started their planned trials yet so for the system to be deployed fully in a few weeks would literally be impossible.

Alexander Hanff

Or a desperate attempt to get it up and running before it could be stopped.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34537411)

Or a desperate attempt to get it up and running before it could be stopped.

That was exactly my thought!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Florence (Post 34536943)

See they didn't reply again seems phormukprteam have been downgraded to spy of the year...

phormukprteam might want to change their user ID?

To: phormukpteam (no 'r')?

Because they are just Public now, no Relations with the public, just Public.

:D:D:D:D:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Just had a second reply from Amazon thye are now going to investigate phorm and what phorm does before replying to me again... I will let you know what happens but have replied thanking them and added in that I had planned to boycot all companies that use the phormadvertising platform. :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dav (Post 34537393)

Hmmmm....I think this goes some way to removing the 'comfort' part from Kent's 'letter of comfort from the Home Office.' In no way are the HO saying it is legal or not, merely that it has not been tested in a court of law (yet).

I think the HO are back-pedaling a little to distance themselves from the apparent Phorm-friendly stance they previously allowed Phorm to spout about.

Recent days go to show that governmental u-turns are not impossible. Give the HO a little time to breathe and they may well come around to our way of thinking and realise that their real boss is Joe Public and not some shyster out to make a quick buck off the backs of ordinary folk.

Given that Phorm and BT have continually refused, despite my public challenges here an on El Reg, to publish the full legal opinions they claim to have received including the full details of the QC who provided this advice, one has to ask if this "letter of comfort"** was all that they actually had?

So yet again I challenge Phorm to provide the full QC opinion, including date and time of original issue and the details of the QC who provided it. No spin or interpretation needed thank you, just the full QC opinion. There are people here who can and will provide suitable interpretation.

It's not difficult.

The HO had little choice other than to admit that the "letter of comfort" did not qualify as legal opinion given that Nicholas Bohm has already reminded them that the courts decide on what is and isn't legal under the law.

They still have not answered why they have done nothing to investigate the secret trials. Time to write to my MP again...

**It's a bit different to the kind of thing I would regard as a letter of comfort... Something like

"Dear CaptHunter, I'm happy to confirm to you that the story about Sky One remaking Blake's 7 is in fact nothing more than a complete fabrication and we will not, in fact, be going ahead with any such production." would be very comforting right now.

OK, who thought it was going to be something very different? *grin*

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Well I finally read all of Nicholas Bohm's paper today - The Phorm "Webwise" System - a Legal Analysis.

It's a masterpiece of well phormed understanding!

The only bit I really did not understand (maybe someone can help me here) is in para. 37, "The authorisation of interception is hedged about with safeguards". I really cannot comprehend the meaning of that sentence. Believe me, I tried to today. Is this 'hedged about' meaning 'surrounded by'? Maybe I need a vino and it will become clear!

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Letter written to Neil Berkett. Includes Nicholas Bohm's legal analysis and letter to the Home Office...

"This second document may seem spurious as far as Virgin Media is concerned. However, given the secret testing of this technology by BT in 2006 and 2007, questions are now being asked as to whether Virgin Media have ever tested any of Phorm's technology or any similar technology.

I must now ask for your written assurance that no such tests have been undertaken and that if any are to be undertaken then all customers will be informed by letter as well as e-mail clearly stating such tests are occurring and offered an opt-out which is network based and will prevent any data going to Phorm's systems. This is important to me and many other customers ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ if you cannot provide such an assurance then customers will perceive that Virgin Media is no better than BT. Customers will then want to know who was affected by such a trial and, as you will see from Mr Bohm's analysis, Virgin Media will be open to legal action."

In other words, thanks for the phone calls but this time I'd rather like it in writing. I've pointed him to the meeting footage too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank (Post 34537448)

Hedging can have many uses in language but in this case I think it merely states ( not having taken it in context ) that the authorisation is not easy to obtain being protected ( hedged about ) by safeguards.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Thanks Panasonic :) - that fits I think.

Email sent to my MP, follow up to letter she has already replied to, link to N Bhhm's paper, Early Day Motion and summary of the latest. Asked if she will sign the EDM and expressed concern about the police/HO/ICO etc

Damn, then I saw Alexander's idea about complaining in line with the procedures required leading up to a complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman. It'll save... I'll no doubt be writing another in a week or so!

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Had to visit my online banking today so decided to browse the pages I never visit.. :D

Quote:

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Just wonder what sort of mess the Phorm addition to the cookies would do....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

In case this has not been posted already

http://www.capmarkets.com/ViewFile.a...HRM_230408.pdf

and in particular

"And

third, the launch customers – BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media – have
also undergone extensive trialling of the technology, and none are in the business of

taking unnecessary risks on new technology adoption."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Here we go damn good stuff

And third, the launch customers – BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media – have
also undergone extensive trialling of the technology, and none are in the business of
taking unnecessary risks on new technology adoption.

so phorm are admitting themselves that all these companies have done trials
i belive now 95% that i was under some sort of trial, last year.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Another quote from the same:

Quote:

We also note TalkTalkÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s stated intention to launch its service on an ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“opt inÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ basis ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ although this may change once initial trial results become known.

i.e. Phorm know opt in would damage the business model and intend to revert to opt out once the current storm has died down.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hmm full of the usual spin and half-truths. Also little mention of 121media, spyware or rootkits in the CVs (surprise!). Anyone investing their hard-earned on the basis of this deserves all they get. Anyone subscribing to Charles Stanley needs to seriously question if they are getting value for money if this is typical of the quality of their work

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonglet (Post 34537539)

Here we go damn good stuff

And third, the launch customers ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â‚¬Å“ have
also undergone extensive trialling of the technology, and none are in the business of
taking unnecessary risks on new technology adoption.

so phorm are admitting themselves that all these companies have done trials
i belive now 95% that i was under some sort of trial, last year.

Well let's see what Neil Berkett has to say about this. Someone's telling porkies somewhere.

Note that this document states that

"This research has not been prepared in accordance with regulatory requirements designed to promote the independence of
investment research."

So it admits (albeit in small print) that it's just a piece of promotional spin garbage.

And also that it quotes the very advice that the Home Office is now standing off from.

Lots of spin but precious little fact. Keep alerting people to the spin-free facts and they will be persuaded that Phorm is something we can all live without.

The sooner BT gets its sorry backside dragged through the courts the better.

What was it Bill Hicks said about people who work in marketing and advertising?