Cable Forum - UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

Brexit: Trade talks put on hold as UK and EU say 'conditions not met' for deal

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-tr...-deal-12151231

Brexit trade talks between the UK and the EU have been put on hold after the two sides said "conditions for an agreement are not met".

The bloc's chief negotiator Michel Barnier said he and Downing Street's David Frost had agreed to "pause" talks on a deal while they brief their principals on the state of play of the negotiations.

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-tr...-deal-12151231

Damien

04-12-2020 20:09

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

So much of this is theatre.

I don't know if there is going to be a deal or not but has there even been an EU-UK agreement that didn't involve it going down to the wire and them 'suddenly' approving a deal in the early hours after a midnight deadline had passed?

Likewise was there any prospect that, if a deal is done, that it wouldn't involve a last moment drama before the negotiating teams give up and it comes down to the leaders to sort it out?

Sephiroth

04-12-2020 20:27

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

I'm totally fascinated by the secretive goings on in London. Little leaks have indicated that the EU negotiators are less concerned with fish than they are with policing the level playing field provisions. Labour laws. environmental laws and social laws - that's too much to ask.

Environmental - certainly; we should not go off on one.

Labour - certainly not. We have our traditions and practices and we want to be as productive as Germany (if we can grow our industry) and not be hide-bound by French practices. On the other hand, it's difficult to see where we ould diverge from where we are now - which is in harmony with them.

Social - even more certainly not. It's none of their business how we develop socially. Remember the Working Time Directive trick? Health and Safety; we're bad enough on that without letting the drag us further down.

A fudge might be useful, but even more + even more certainly not if it's to be policed by the ECJ. Totally defeats the Referendum result.

Finally, back to the fish. Out comes Macron's chest with threat to veto a deal that doesn't give him the fish he wants. Please veto the deal so that you get none. I suppose our stupid government hasn't got the gunboats ready.

Pierre

04-12-2020 20:31

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36060974)

Seen lots of posts in the outer world saying that, even with a deal, they think that there will be interruptions to supply chains. Some are starting to stockpile.

I can see a surge in panic buying after Christmas leading up to the 31st, then after New Years Day, whether this comes to fruition or not, the shops being quiet.

I've been gradually increasing my stock of food and pet food, so now have a few big boxes to see me through the worst.

Don’t forget plenty of tinfoil, for your head.

RichardCoulter

04-12-2020 23:22

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36060984)

Don’t forget plenty of tinfoil, for your head.

What do you mean by that?

heero_yuy

05-12-2020 08:15

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36060984)

Don’t forget plenty of tinfoil, for your head.

Well if there's no toilet rolls and you need to use copies of the Gruniad don't come complaining here. :D

papa smurf

05-12-2020 09:56

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

If a deal is done, chances are

a it gets voted down in the house.

b it gets vetoed by France

Any way we are close now ,we just have virtually the same stumbling blocks we had when all this started.

heero_yuy

05-12-2020 10:04

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

We were supposed to have walked away from this nonsense in June. :rolleyes:

Now the remain supporters are wanting an "implementation" period. Just more delays.

Chris

05-12-2020 10:10

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36061028)

If it gets voted down anywhere, we default to No Deal. I’m pretty sure that this is the scenario the UK side has played for all along - to close off the possibility of any more parliamentary pantomime. It will ultimately suit Macron as well if he has to put a “deal or no deal” scenario before his legislature. The French want the fish, but under “no deal” they get nothing, as of 3 weeks and six days from now.

papa smurf

05-12-2020 10:14

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36061030)

The Salmon in my freezer could soon be worth a fortune on the black market.

Carth

05-12-2020 10:40

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36061031)

The Salmon in my freezer could soon be worth a fortune on the black market.

Chances are you didn't catch that from the end of the pier on a cold wet Tuesday evening :D

papa smurf

05-12-2020 10:58

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36061032)

Chances are you didn't catch that from the end of the pier on a cold wet Tuesday evening :D

Salmon is a kind of legal/illegal tender around here, you do a job for someone they pay you in salmon, you're right there is no salmon in the Humber unless it's lost
but Grimsby docks fish market is teeming with it;)

1andrew1

05-12-2020 12:01

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36060965)

The tariffs are applied to the export consignment, not the quayside wholesaler. There is no visible difference as far as fishermen catching in British waters and landing in British ports are concerned, unless the export purchasers attempt to drive the price they're prepared to pay down by 20% to allow for the tariff they are then going to have to pay. That is unlikely to happen though, because the British fishermen will be in control of the market and the exporters will not easily be able to fulfil demand from restaurants in France from other sources.

Conversely, if the UK concedes a significant amount of fishing permission to the EU it is possible that certain fish demand could be satisfied by EU trawlers fishing in British waters, then landing the catch in EU ports. No tariff is then due. Hence why this is such a vexed issue.

Quite a few cases doing the rounds of companies in the EU asking UK suppliers to absorb any tariffs. Easier to ask if there are substitute providers though.

In terns of ceding fishing permission, the UK has done this by selling permits to the highest bidder regardless of nationality. So taking a different stance here would benefit British fishermen.

In the short term, wholesalers may take a hit but the restaurant sector in Europe has been hit hard by Covid and any savings will be gratefully received. Depending on location, British fishermen could relocate their bases to the island of Ireland and avoid the 20% tax and thus be more attractive to EU wholesalers.

But hopefully, a deal will be struck and it will not come to this.

Chris

05-12-2020 12:14

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

The fishing permit situation is complex, however the EU's regulatory regime did its fair share in making it much more attractive for British fishermen (mostly English as it happens) to sell their quotas. Cod fishing was all but banned for several years and a lot of the quota was consequently sold off by trawler owners who needed to concentrate on making a living there and then. It was bought speculatively by large fishing businesses in other EU states. Not being small owner-operators of individual vessels, these businesses could afford to make the long-term investment and wait for cod stocks to recover, in a way small UK-based operators could not. They are now the ones cashing in on so much of the fish caught within the UK's exclusive economic zone.

Mr K	05-12-2020 13:18

Re: Brexit-Transitional Period Ends 31/12/20

All carefully stage managed theatrics to con the Brexiteers that we're getting a 'great deal'.

The real deal will already gave been done. Pretend the EU want 10 year fishing rights, when really they'd settle for 5, and the Brexiteers want none. Then sell 5 as a marvellous UK 'victory over Johnny Foreigner. Fact is even with a deal we all lose badly for decades. Increased prices on everything, here we come. Enjoy taking back control ! ;)

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