Cable Forum - [Update] Grenfell Tower report published

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Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Building regulations unfit for purpose, Grenfell review finds.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...uilding-report

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42392138

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

they don't care as long as the rent gets paid, Disgraceful

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

So nothing really related to the Grenfell fire.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Families in towers with Grenfell-style cladding are being charged £2million to remove it — more than £20,000 per flat.

The 97 privately-owned Citiscape apartments have the aluminium composite material blamed for the 71 deaths in the West London fire.

They were initially told the bill estimate was £500,000 - and they now fear the latest figure could double to £4 million.

Residents of the blocks in Croydon, South East London, are being taken to a tribunal by management firm Port. A judge is expected to rule they must pay.

Flat owner Srikant Alla said: “The company that put up this cladding should be made to pay.”

Source

So who should pay?

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35932969)

Source

So who should pay?

The company who supplied and placed the cladding needs to be sued by the residents..They need to get together and get a solicitor.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

I find it amazing. While I think that it's important to say that everyone deserves to live in safety, it's worth noting that this isn't just 60s or 70s era council block that Croydon Council slapped some cladding on so it looked nice, it is a privately owned block where people have frequently paid over £300,000 for 2 bedroom flats. Having accepted hundreds of thousands of pounds for each flat, I would hope that the building owner would feel obligated to spend a reasonable amount to ensure the safety of each resident. If necessary, they should sue the developer to recoup the costs.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Quote from The Sun:

Fraud investigators have been called in after a 15-person family who received up to £1million in public aid and three new homes claimed they all lived in Grenfell Tower.

A "cash-for-crash" faker Masi Naqshbandi is part of the family who have been rehoused in luxury flats in Kensington, West London.

The family claim all of them were living in their three-bedroom flat on the third floor of Grenfell Tower - but some only registered that they were living there the day after the fire, the Sunday Times reported.

One couple registered Grenfell Tower as the address on their son's birth certificate.

But only four were on the original tenancy agreement, the paper claimed.

And some of them were still linked to an address in Harrow.

Trust some **** to piggyback off the unfortunate.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Quote from BBC News:

Fire tests carried out as early as 2014 showed cladding used on Grenfell Tower failed to meet the safety standards originally claimed by its manufacturer, a BBC investigation has found.

The firm Arconic knew the test rating had been downgraded, but the UK body that certifies building products said it was not told about the change.

An industry source, who has worked on a number of cladding schemes, said he believed there should have been a product recall.

Quote:

But two different types which were later fitted at the block did not carry the same rating.

One was given a C — and another given an E. Products are rated for their “reaction to fire” on an A to F scale, with A being the best. A source told the BBC: “You wouldn’t put E on a dog kennel.”

Click the red link for the full story that has been uncovered here. Seems a lot of people didn't do their jobs properly.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35942846)

Click the red link for the full story that has been uncovered here. Seems a lot of people didn't do their jobs properly.

As investigators frequently say, "follow the money".

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Quote from The Sun:

A damning report into the Grenfell Tower blaze claims the London Fire Brigade, Tony Blair and cladding firms are responsible for the tragedy.

The 30,000-word exposé, by journalist Andrew O'Hagan, also blasts the then housing minister Sajid Javid for failing to properly handle the aftermath.

Channel 4's Jon Snow is also criticised in the document, published by The London Review of Books, for pressing the issue of gentrification while the 24-storey block was still smouldering.

But the report says Kensington and Chelsea's council leader Nicholas Paget-Brown, who resigned in the wake of the inferno, was blameless.

O'Hagan has spent months investigating Grenfell and written the major exposé to coincide with an inquiry where victims have begun giving testimonies.

The full report is on the red review link.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

A combination of the 150mm thick flammable insulation and bad design of the area around the windows were the main problems. The exterior work was all about the insulation and using it to meet environmental("Green") rules. The cladding was only around 3/4mm thick and there to protect the insulation. I doubt even a 2mm layer of Napalm could produce that ferocity of fire on the outside of the building.

The manufacturers of the insulation listed it as the only one of its type to be rated for use above 18m. Any architects/designers would also have had to look at the small print connected to its usage. Which was basically surrounding it with non-combustible materials in order to restrict spread of fire to adjoining flats. But they would simply see in a list of potential materials(eg on the RIBA/Royal Institute of British Architects website) that it was ok for use above 18m and that was it. The 18m limit was only because of the height limit of fire brigade ladder reach and no other aspect. Plenty of buildings around the world have used it. It is strange that the original specification of the insulation was for similar product from the same manufacturer, but wasn't rated for use above 18m.

The new design of area around the windows meant there was little to prevent the spread of any fire from inside a flat to the outside and then back into another flat. The initial internal fire had been put out successfully, which is why the building wasn't immediately evacuated.

Quote:

Then there was a Non-Material Amendment made to approval PP/12/04097 after CON/14/04024. On 2 January 2015 proposed changes to the design by Studio E and planning consultants IBI Group were accepted by RBKC planners as NMA/14/08597. The design changes appear very material in that they re-position the windows, out from the existing concrete into the (rainscreen) cladding zone.
Ian notes that the planned separation of the window from the concrete meant that interfaces – “window, head and cill extrusions, foams, perimeter filler insulation, water, air and vapour barrier, and lining boards” – became technically critical for fire safety.
The several materials and products within the interface gap became the only construction stopping a fire inside a flat from reaching the cavity and cladding.
In other words, the late change to the window position, moving it out from the solid concrete structure, meant it was weak due to the ‘filled gaps’ around the sides where fire could break through

Non-experts have to rely on the expertise of the experts, ie Architects and designers. Who in turn have to rely on other experts and the manufacturers.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Grenfell survivor blames landlord’s ‘cancerous’ decisions for disaster.

Quote:

The Grenfell Tower resident who issued warnings in 2016 that disaster would strike has predicted that every part of the decision-making process before the fire will be exposed as “rotten and cancerous” during the public inquiry, which starts its first phase on Monday.

Quote:

“Every single link in this chain is going to be found to be rotten and cancerous,” Daffern said. “The government didn’t implement the inquest recommendations after the Lakanal House fire where six people died in 2009. Had they done that Grenfell wouldn’t have happened. RBKC failed to carry out scrutiny of the TMO.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...s-for-disaster

Rotten to the core from top to bottom just about sums it up..

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

The MM QB'ing blaming Blair is preposterous. When in doubt, everything is his fault.

Reason we voted to leave the EU? Blair opened it up to Eastern Europeans.

Media problems? Levison goes back to Blair?

Corruption in the Lords...blame Tony's Peerage sales!

Issues in the Middle East? They all started when we invaded Iraq apparently.

Issues at winning elections? Continuously talk about how Lab wrecks the economy, non stop.

Now...The fire that killed so many and sent many more in sheltered housing / hospitals etc? All Blair's fault.

Give me a break...that report is atrocious or maybe it is just the Sun's headlines only that fault was definitely not the fault of Tony Blair and the London Fire Brigade.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35949092)

Grenfell survivor blames landlord’s ‘cancerous’ decisions for disaster.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...s-for-disaster

Rotten to the core from top to bottom just about sums it up..

All nothing whatsoever to do with how the fire spread, which was OUTSIDE the building. Same materials were uses as are used in buildings above and BELOW 18m in height, all around the world. The 18m(6 storeys) rule is based upon the reach of fire brigade equipment.

Re: Huge fire at West London tower block

Bit of a bump, but relevant imho.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/07/fire-...fell-14537101/

Quote:

Fire rips through flat in Canary Wharf tower block ‘with Grenfell cladding’

Firefighters are battling a huge blaze which has broken out at a block of flats in east London thought to have the same type of cladding as that used on Grenfell Tower. Emergency crews rushed to the New Providence Wharf development, near Canary Wharf, shortly before 9am this morning. Residents said fire alarms did not go off until around half an hour after the blaze started, with witnesses describing how others were ‘stuck on their balconies shouting for help’. The building is believed to be covered in ACM cladding, the same kind used on Grenfell Tower, where 72 people were killed when the block went up in flames following a flat fire in 2017.

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/07/fire-...1/?ito=cbshare