Re: Brexit
 

Heseltine is a self serving dinosaur that only sees thing's oneway and i doubt he'll be missed by number 10 anymore then we have missed him as an mp. We need to get on with getting out and be done with it.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh I don't know, quite like him. Best political moment in the 1980s was when he stormed out of Thatchers cabinet through the No10 front door, and resigned live in front of the TV cameras. Tarzan is a top bloke and history will prove him right.

Re: Brexit
 

I very much doubt history will bother much with him just another self serving backstabber not exactly a rarity in politics. Your in for a few good years MrK as there will be an economic cost to brexit in the short to midterm but after that the UK will prosper as we again become a global trader and we will watch as the EU struggles from one mess to the next. That's the harsh reality for the EU growing financial issues that are not being properly or decisively handled and as time goes on more member states fail the EU's requirements. Not even touching on the ever greater integration or the creation of federal european entities such as a singular police force and military because expanding EU borders ever closer to russia isn't enough we have to then threaten them with a european military.

Your very good at slating brexit every chance you get but perhaps you should open your eyes to the problems the EU faces in the coming years because out of the two brexit will be significantly less costly.

Re: Brexit
 

Never pretended the EU is perfect, nothing ever is. We aren't the only country that wanted reform, that would have been the much more sensible route. That's why all main political parties campaigned for Remain ( including the current and former PMs and Chancellors), the alternative wasn't credible. We just hear negative news about EU from the press and the benefits will only be truly realised when we've left. Leaving the largest trading block in the World is madness. However accept that what people have voted for, but they can't blame anyone except themselves when they are significantly less well off as a result. Not just for a few years, but generations. There's the £50bn bill for just leaving to begin with (the exact figure to be negotiated, but it's going to be big). Yesterday's Budget tax rise was just the start.

Re: Brexit
 

And Cameron proved that the Federal states of Europe were having none of that. Glad he did; now we get to leave.

Re: Brexit
 

It's called being in denial. Some folks are experts at it.

---------- Post added at 09:17 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

Funny how some people are still peddling the old 'reform the EU from the inside' guff. Went well for DC didn't it when he tried to get some iota of movement on the verge of the EU's second largest contributor having a vote on leaving... :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

I agree. By leaving the EU, we're throwing out the baby with the bath water. It's not just a simple loss of prosperity for five years, it's a long-term reduction in global influence and prosperity due to a smaller number of markets to sell our services in. The EU has been the most successful trading bloc for making trading deals with other countries; overall it's not held us back in making deals. Yes, the UK will survive but we won't be such an important player or as prosperous as if we had remained in the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Thing is, it was far from just being 'the biggest trading bloc in the World' wasn't it. It started off as that, hence the old name 'Common Market' but it mutated into much much more, with the trading only ending up as one facet.

It's the other facets that we are (or will be) well rid off.

I don't think we will be alone either.

Re: Brexit
 

Didn't he threaten a bunch of Labour MPs with the ceremonial mace when they celebrated after voting to nationalise the defence industry? ;) That was one of his most famous moments, albeit it one not recorded by TV cameras as the time.

Re: Brexit
 

You can not prove that. I can not prove the opposite. But you can prove that leaving the Federal States of Europe gives Britain control of Laws, Taxes and Immigration; i.e. Sovereignty.

---------- Post added at 11:44 ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 ----------


The EU have an agenda; The Federal States of Europe. Nothing will sway them away from that agenda. Failing to understand that, is a mistake in my view.

Re: Brexit
 

That's a blinkered way of putting it. The EU is failing Andrew, it consists of countries that are not paying their fair share, some of them have required bail out after bail out and it was being said Greece is looking like it will require yet another.

It is not sustainable and the trading block is not worth being part of when it cripples those countries who should be able to trade with who they like, when they like, sorry but I don't want to be part of a corrupted system that dictates like that so I'm glad we leaving that nonsense and we can do what the hell we like, instead of being told what to do by unelected set of pricks.

Re: Brexit
 

Brexit has caused quite a few other member states of the EU to consider the degree to which their citizens are supporting the EU or being dragged along by politicians looking out for themselves. We were the first but we will not be the last and it will be interesting to see how france and germany will fare once they have to make up the shortfall. It is simply stupid to suggest it's all downhill from here for the UK and the worlds largest trading bloc was giving us less and less as time went on so stepping out is not necessarily a bad thing. I personally have more faith in the UK and it's people then some clearly have and believe we will make a success out of getting out of the EU.

It's funny in a way that the doom and gloom approach of the remain campaign backfired so badly and yet the supposedly more educated people continue to use a failed tactic rather then come up with something better.

Re: Brexit
 

The usual suspects here know that full well, they just don't like admitting it because doing so destroys their argument that the UK can reform the EU from the inside*. There is no negotiation possible on the EU's raison d'etre and they've confirmed it categorically many times.


* Just look how far we've managed to reform it in the decades we've been members lol.

---------- Post added at 12:48 ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 ----------

Maybe they're not as clever as they think eh? :D

They're all too ready to predict nothing but gloom and doom ahead for the UK outside of the EU but have nothing to say about all the huge known risks and problems evident within the EU. I can't think why... :shrug:

:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

See the 'usual suspect' is still labelling those that don't agree with his narrow view of the world as 'the usual suspects' :D.
Nearly as childish as seeing what you want to see and ignoring what you don't, nothing is ever all good or all bad.

Re: Brexit
 

Interesting article in the FT about what kind of trade the country wants after we leave the UK.

Economists for Brexit has been renamed Economists for Free Trade which reflects its beliefs of no barriers to trade in the UK. The organisation's Patrick Minford wrote last year “Over time . . . it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, but this shouldn’t scare us.”

To read the article, google Brexit campaigners shift focus to global free trade or subscribers can visit https://www.ft.com/content/f2a07810-...8-3700c5664d30

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

The EU's imperfect, I'll be the first to admit that. Greece is Greece and it should never have been allowed to join the Eurozone, but that's another matter. But compared to countries like the US which employs the President's son-in-law the EU is a shining beacon of democracy. And I lose track of people who say that the EU can't get anything down as countries need to vote on things, and the next minute complain it's undemocratic and run by bureaucrats whilst forgetting there is a Parliament!
In economic terms, we pay about 0.6% of our GDP and we get back a 10% larger GDP. I'd say that's a good return on investment.