Re: Brexit
 

More from Laura Kuenssberg BBC Political Editor: "No way of knowing exactly how and if this will happen - but hearing same as @SamCoatesTimes - seems some Brexiteers are switching position from wait and see to moving now"

---------- Post added at 18:44 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

More from LK:

"Understand there has not yet been an official ERG decision to get group to push button on letters going in, but levels of anger so high that some are doing it anyway - this might be the start of crashing into a leadership contest by accident - impossible to tell yet"

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

BREAKING: Brexit Secretary Dominic Raab, NOW not expected to travel to Brussels tonight to meet with Michel Barnier, has deal been rejected by Cabinet ?

---------- Post added at 18:56 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

Cabinet is winding up their meeting - Statement expected imminently.

Re: Brexit
 

The Spectator’s James Forsyth states.

Re: Brexit
 

cant see them having the numbers to oust her in a vote and if they lose the vote then cant try again for a year in tory rules

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

cabinet agree the deal cant see it getting past parliment

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier will address a news conference at 8pm UK time.

Re: Brexit
 

I wouldn’t be so sure. If parliament vote it down we are almost certainly looking at No Deal. Are they willing to take that risk. This why the Cabinet have approved it.

May has delivered a deal, there will be comprises.

Question is will the EU approve it?

Will be interesting to see the detail

Re: Brexit
 

The detail will apparently be out later tonight.

Re: Brexit
 

interesting she used words no Brexit too

and the EU don't wont a no deal either so yes I cant see them not approving it they been waiting to see what happened in cabinet meeting

Re: Brexit
 

Here is the full text of Theresa May’s statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live



---------- Post added at 19:50 ---------- Previous post was at 19:43 ----------

And here is the Text of the draft Brexit withdrawal agreement

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...greement_0.pdf

Re: Brexit
 

Interesting 'no Brexit at all' is now an option...

Re: Brexit
 

And as a Labour MP said, it was unfortunate TM spoke to the press before parliament because it that is not an option because there is that little detail of Brexit being enshrined in to UK law.

Re: Brexit
 

The Brexit she's proposing is virtually 'No Brexit at all' except it involves us paying out billions and having our voting rights removed. The more I think about it the worse it gets,no wonder Brexiteers and Remainers are rejecting it. She's brought them together if nothing else !

Re: Brexit
 

Don't go raising your hopes, Mr K! TM has already ruled that out.

Re: Brexit
 

Given that Article 50 has been triggered already, we are no longer in the EU after 29 March 2019, whether Parliament votes or not.

Re: Brexit
 

She should have never spoke to the press before parliament.

Re: Brexit
 

Ermm, read the speech ... It's a possibility according to TM. Obviously designed to scare the Brextreemists !

Re: Brexit
 

Yes, it's an option, but one she's ruled out.

Re: Brexit
 

If parliament votes No, she's saying No Brexit might be the result. Cunning eh? ;)

Re: Brexit
 

And ?

TM cannot alter a law on just her words.

Also - you have been told not use that term in this thread - FOLLOW first posts rules or stay out of this thread!!!

Re: Brexit
 

interesting few days ahead

Sky News Breaking
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Sky Sources say the Cabinet was "very split" with nearly 10 Cabinet ministers opposing Prime Minister Theresa May's plan

Re: Brexit
 

So she just told a pack of lies on steps of No. 10 saying the Cabinet, collectively agreed the deal.

Re: Brexit
 

Extremely convenient with the truth.

Re: Brexit
 

They had a cabinet referendum and No lost..

Re: Brexit
 

majority was for agree to deal but of course was some against we see if any resign in next couple of days

Re: Brexit
 

If it does actually deliver what she claims it delivers, you have to wonder what fuss from the EU was about.

Re: Brexit
 

There is a good chance it will unravel in the coming days.

Re: Brexit
 

yes interesting few days for sure Den

Re: Brexit
 

Apparently oily snake Gove was the only pro- Brexit minister to vote yes. Watch him, he'll do, say or change his opinion on anything if it makes him the next PM.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think so, because the alternative is worse. Apparently.

Re: Brexit
 

He is probably related to Brutus the Younger.;)

---------- Post added at 20:53 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

Well only the next few days will tell us OB.

Re: Brexit
 

There's something wrong with your logic there, I think. After all, if he wanted to take TM's job, he shouldn't be siding with her now!

Re: Brexit
 

Oh dear OB you don't know the Tories ! He who strikes the first blow is never leader. Remain loyal to the end, then reluctantly take the lead when your competitors have fought it out. Remember John Major...

Re: Brexit
 

Who came up on the rails to beat Michael Heseltine.

Re: Brexit
 

ITV News Source: Straight from her meeting with the Prime Minister in Parliament, DUP Leader Arlene Foster has gone for a meeting with Labour MP Kate Hoey.

Re: Brexit
 

Oh dear. What a shambles. The draft agreement has been released and a vassal state is what we'd be if implemented.

Terrible.

Re: Brexit
 

Agreed - Remainers should scrap their demands for a Second Referendum to stop Brexit - not only is this worse than staying in the EU, it goes beyond it.

Weak and wobbly from the unstable thicko May.

Re: Brexit
 

The great tory cock-up of the century.

Re: Brexit
 

I don’t know what’s in it to have an opinion yet. I haven’t and don’t intend to read 500 pages of legalease eurospeak.

I’ll wait until someone breaks it down for me.

Re: Brexit
 

SNP'S Nicola Sturgeon latest tweet: "Not long off call with PM. She tried to tell me Scotland’s ‘distinctive’ interests had been protected. I pointed out that there isn’t a single mention of Scotland in the agreement, that it disregards our interests, and puts Scotland at a serious competitive disadvantage."

As much as I cannot stand NS - Why does May insist on telling a pack of lies to sell this BS - I bet she has not read all 585 pages.

Re: Brexit
 

Then again England isn't mentioned, other than referring to the "Bank of England" in respect of being the UK national bank.

Re: Brexit
 

If this is the best we can do for the Withdrawal Agreement, can you imagine the free trade deal we’ll negotiate with the EU?

Re: Brexit
 

easiest deal in history ;) oh wait

Re: Brexit
 

What don’t you like about it?

---------- Post added at 00:35 ---------- Previous post was at 00:34 ----------

Hasn’t even been negotiated yet, it still might be.

Re: Brexit
 

It's what you voted for. ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Not really, but it’s what you facilitated.

Re: Brexit
 

You won. It's what you voted for as obviously Brexit was clearly defined when you voted for it.

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:40 ----------

How? By stating that unicorns don't exist to the hard of thinking?

---------- Post added at 00:45 ---------- Previous post was at 00:42 ----------

Lol. Some people want to fall for anything Farage tells them. They are now facing reality and it ain't sweet.

---------- Post added at 00:48 ---------- Previous post was at 00:45 ----------

Just remember - they need us more than we need them. :D:D:D

Re: Brexit
 

Enough of this immature rubbish - if you are incapable of having a mature discussion and are on a mission to provoke and create division - like I told Mr K earlier, you are also are warned to stay out of this thread!

---------- Post added at 00:52 ---------- Previous post was at 00:49 ----------

Correct - It's been Sabotage from day one from the coward Remainers in government.

Re: Brexit
 

Must admit Andrew does seem to come across as one that welcomes the shittiest deal there could possibly be, just to say 'I told you so'

makes you wonder who's side he's on :p:

Re: Brexit
 

It would be very easy to leave, especially if the negotiations had been done by a person committed to leaving, and not by Remainers and Civil Servants in government.

---------- Post added at 01:01 ---------- Previous post was at 00:57 ----------

Certainly not the side of UK, he's always wanted the UK to fail on it's own, pathetic and cowardly springs to mind.

Re: Brexit
 

even with a leaver in charge it not easy leaving all the treaties and Ireland border ect lots of issues to be sorted

Re: Brexit
 

Yes it is - we simply leave, no deal, not collecting £200, or £39 Billion when we pass go. There is nothing to negotiate. Theresa May played a very weak hand because she is a Remainer.

Re: Brexit
 

And it will all be done in a few months.;)

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The trouble is Theresa May herself only a couple of years ago believed in the EU and as the saying goes "Leopards don't change their spots"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...wn-her-chance/

Re: Brexit
 

Leavers should see the deal as the start of the departure and be happy the train is leaving the station. It was never going to be as easy as they hoped but it is happening.

---------- Post added at 06:33 ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 ----------

It's a transition deal so things will move in the direction you want but it will take years not days. Raab got the best deal he could get and if people are now starting to understand that statements like "they need us more than we need them" were indeed fanciful, the sooner the country can come together once more.

Re: Brexit
 

In case you have difficulty finding the full text of the Withdrawal Agreement (the official site was on "planned maintenance"), the full text in PDF is at:

https://www.republica.com/wp-content...ed01fd2f2e.pdf

and

https://assets.publishing.service.go...pean_Union.pdf

The Political Declaration is at:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...lationship.pdf

Re: Brexit
 

This deal or no Brexit seems to be the message they are going to go with. Not much difference except one option involves paying out £40 billion and losing any say. She might convert a few Brexiters to Remain ! The woman is a genius ;)

Re: Brexit
 

I think the line is intended to scare the hardline Brexiteers away from voting down the deal in Parliament. The implied threat is that if Parliament can’t agree what to do, then there will have to be another general election, or perhaps another referendum, which in such a febrile atmosphere would be quite likely to deliver a remain vote - continuity usually wins out in times of crisis.*

I don’t think TM wants a second referendum or a general election by any means, so it will be interesting to hear what happens over the coming days when she’s pressed to put meat on the bones of that implied threat. She may have let a genie out of the bottle that she can’t easily put back.

*I’m in no doubt that the leaders of the so-called Peoples Vote campaign are planning on their referendum being nothing more than an appeal to every negative headline over the past 2 years, many of which, of course, are a direct result of one or other of them deciding to “speak out” or “intervene” in the debate...

Re: Brexit
 

No, unlike you. I respect Democracy and don’t abuse it. I still want to leave this Hitler type corrupt empire, AKA the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Because the only way to avoid a compromise deal like this was/is to have a hard Brexit. To leave the EU fully and then negotiate our future from outside the EU.

It would have been painful for a few years but it would be the only way.

All the pressure from remainers to have a softer Brexit, to stay in the SM and CU and al that comes with it, this type of deal was obvious. So I don't see how remainers can complain about anything.

It really will be touch and go if this gets through parliament. It will be very interesting if it doesn't.....god knows what will happen then.

I hate to say it, but I do see a second referendum on the horizon, I do.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: First Resignation of the day, Northern Ireland Minister for the Government, Shailesh Vara, resigns calling the deal a “Halfway House” and UK having no say.

Labour’s Shadow Brexit Secretary says Labour will vote against this deal in a Parliamentary vote.

Re: Brexit
 

Highly likely it won't be the one and only resignation of the day.

Re: Brexit
 

I think it’s a bad deal but also probably the most realistic one that could be achieved. I don’t see much evidence the problems it seeks to solve would have been solved outside of the bloc any easier.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: Dominic Raab RESIGNS.

Re: Brexit
 

Dominic Raab resigns.

Re: Brexit
 

And more will follow..

Re: Brexit
 

Complete capitulation, but hardly unexpected when a remain supporter is sent in to do a leavers job.

I hope this gets shot down in flames, otherwise there's no point in ever bothering to vote for anything again. Better to get out on the streets.

Re: Brexit
 

Love how he voted yes, yesterday and today had a second vote!

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

How do we know he voted yes ?

11 Cabinet Ministers are said to have rejected it, he could have been one of them.

Re: Brexit
 

I cannot see this agreement being endorsed. We cannot have a position where we are reliant on the EU to get out of the customs union. The NI issue is not going to be backed by the DUP.

What will happen next? Well, if the U.K. is not prepared to accept the agreement, either the EU must back down on those issues or we leave without a deal.

Given the consequences for the EU, and particularly the NI border question, I think we might get further concessions from them. However, in the meantime, we need to step up drastically our arrangements for a Brexit with no deal.

Re: Brexit
 

His resignation letter.

Re: Brexit
 

I can see the Raving Monster Loony Party getting quite a few more candidates standing for election (and possibly winning) if it all goes mammaries skyward. No point voting for any party that claims to be sensible & honest :D

Latest manifesto: http://www.loonyparty.com/proposals/policies-a-z/

Re: Brexit
 

Iain Duncan Smith, a leading Tory Brexiter and former party party leader, has just told BBC News that the impact of Raab’s resignation will be “devastating”. He says that Raab’s letter suggests that, within government, he has been ignored.

Re: Brexit
 

I agree with Raab’s assessment and I think the conservatives will come to that view as well.

Theresa May needs to go back to the EU and say that Parliament will never endorse such a deal. Over to them.

Re: Brexit
 

Resigning because he disagrees with what he personally negotiated? Does he have an identical twin?

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 ----------

Watch out!

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uplo...t-Research.jpg

---------- Post added at 09:23 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------

"Hitler type"? :) Really?

Re: Brexit
 

I am worried that after living with the aftermath of 2008 we’re going to be living with the aftermath of no deal.

Re: Brexit
 

I noticed that too.

I like Mick and agree with much of what he says, however I think he needs to slap himself on the wrist for that one, considering he admonishes others for similar transgressions.

Come on Mick, don't lower your standards ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

it was categorically stated that No.10 was in charge of the negotiations.

Re: Brexit
 

Bit cold for that isn't it ? Make sure you've had your flu jab and a copy of the Daily Fail as a weapon ;)

---------- Post added at 09:38 ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 ----------

What does the Brexit minister do then ?? Rejecting the deal he created ? LMAO :D

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 ----------

Won't happen Damien, a political breakdown and new referendum is getting closer by the minute.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes - did you miss the Memo? -

The EU want an Army to mobilise around Europe, hmm same motives as Hitler perhaps ?

Re: Brexit
 

It's ok taking the mickey and having a laugh about it, but there will be a lot of aggrieved people out there, and not everyone shows their disgust by writing a strongly worded letter to the local newspaper.

Lots of nutters in the country that would welcome a bit of rioting & looting if it kicks off in a nasty way . . . and it won't matter which way they voted (if they did), half of them don't even need an excuse :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

The Tory Brexiter Anne Marie Morris has just told the BBC that she believes more than 48 of her colleagues have already written to Sir Graham Brady, chair of the backbench 1922 committee, calling for a vote of no confidence in Theresa May.

Some of those letters were written on the condition that they could not be activated until the author agreed, she said. She said the time had come for those MPs to now authorise the use of their letter

Re: Brexit
 

Dominic Rabb resigned

https://news.sky.com/story/live-brex...ement-11554569

Re: Brexit
 

This "agreement" is not about any trade deal, but IS about continuing freedom of movement, treating NI differently, and obeying EU rules.

Re: Brexit
 

May to make a statement at 10.30.

Re: Brexit
 

You're about an hour behind the times....

Meanwhile Latest: Michael Gove cancels his planned visit for a farming conference this morning. Next to go perhaps, he is a close ally of Dominic Raab.

Re: Brexit
 

TM needs to move fast now if she is to survive (if that is even possible now, given her apparent endorsement of the deal last night).

She needs to schedule a vote in Parliament this afternoon regarding those issues Dominic Raab resigned over, to establish for certain that these clauses do not have Parliamentary support. Once that vote is taken, we tell the EU their proposals are not acceptable to Parliament.

The already scheduled debate can still take place on the remainder of the agreement, to establish the degree of support for that, should the EU back down on the disputed clauses.

Time is of the essence now and plans for a no deal will need to be stepped up.

Re: Brexit
 

Paul Brand states.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: Works and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey Resigns.

Re: Brexit
 

She is gone OB as she has diminishing support within her own government lets alone the wider country.

Re: Brexit
 

I'm inclined to agree! Hopefully, a good leader will emerge to replace her. There is plenty of talent in the Conservative Party to take this on, but I'm not sure how many would be prepared to stand.

Re: Brexit
 

Penny Mordaunt will be the next to go if l was a betting man.

Re: Brexit
 

Bookies are now offering evens on May having gone by the end of the year.

Re: Brexit
 

Theresa May is expected to go to the Commons in 20 minutes and stand at that dispatch box and sell this deal - she has egg on her face with two top level resignations, one of them being the guy meant to negotiate the deal with Brussels.

Re: Brexit
 

Will be interesting to see who is next to jump ship.

Re: Brexit
 

2 years plus of complete and utter omnishambles..

---------- Post added at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Brexit minister Suella Braverman.

Re: Brexit
 

was always gonna happen Den as Cameron did referendum to try unite the tory party and now they more divided than ever

Re: Brexit
 

Junior Brexit Minister Suella Braverman has reportedly resigned from DExEU

Re: Brexit
 

Anne Marie Trevelyan resigns. May on way to HoP.

Re: Brexit
 

BBC Political Editor, Laura Kuenssberg: Chief Whip, Julian Smith has just told us the 'PM will not be bullied'

Re: Brexit
 

For those who don't want to ready the full document, both the UK and EU have produced handy summaries which are a lot shorter;

UK - https://assets.publishing.service.go...Union___1_.pdf
EU - http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release...18-6422_en.htm

Some interesting points in there that would seem to ensure that this agreement would never fly including;

• Continuation of freedom of movement
• Almost full acceptance of the EU Acquis including new regulations but no say in the formation of these
• The fact that the entire agreement is written under EU law so the ultimate arbitration body is the CJEU

Or in other words, section 114 of the UK document;

Yikes!

There are some interesting points in there that jumped out at me. There will be a continuation of SM and CU rules for the transition period but goods bought before the end of the transition but not delivered will still be covered. This has a big impact for capital projects where the goods aren't 'bought' until delivered and accepted. I am not an accountant/financial controller but I can see some good scams going on there!

Re: Brexit
 

Michael Gove, the environment secretary tipped as a possible replacement for Dominic Raab as Brexit secretary.