Cable Forum - Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

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- - Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710520)

Hugh	03-01-2022 22:54

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107904)

There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.

No, just an evidence deficiency

1andrew1

04-01-2022 00:13

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107904)

There are so many examples that I’m surprised you are asking for evidence. Or maybe I have a humour deficiency today and didn’t notice it was a joke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36107905)

Just your usual evidence deficiency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107934)

No, just an evidence deficiency

Snap! :D

Julian

04-01-2022 06:00

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107944)

Snap! :D

It’s gettin’ it’s gettin’ it’s gettin’ kinda heavy……

Sephiroth

04-01-2022 09:27

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107894)

You keep asserting this, but never back it up with any evidence…

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Well, that’s all the Left can come up with. They have no ideas of their own to capture the public imagination.

The public will put all this in context by the time they next vote in a General Election.

---------- Post added at 16:46 ---------- Previous post was at 16:44 ----------

I was referring to the inefficient, creaking NHS, not universal care as a concept.

When some people (the usual suspects) have nothing better to say, they call for evidence in respect of the bleedin' obvious such as:

- Try getting a doctor's appointment without overcoming obstacles
- Try getting your cancer operation performed
- Find enough qualified people to staff the Nightingale hospitals
- Try obtaining Covid LFT packs (for the time being)

No link or research is required for the bleedin' obvious.

BenMcr

04-01-2022 09:33

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107907)

And what about with that layer of Primary Care Trust management that the Conservatives abolished, which isn’t missed all these years later.

I could suggest that PCTs aren't missed because the management of the services has just been moved around rather than a layer of management being removed completely.

https://www.bmj.com/bmj/section-pdf/...ature.full.pdf

Quote:

Under the new system commissioners have been stripped of responsibility for primary care and most specialist services, which go to the NHS Commissioning Board, while public health has gone to councils. This leaves CCGs with the £60bn part of the NHS budget that is most difficult to control—general acute care.

It's worth reading the whole article too to understand what PCTs managed to do (and what they didn't) during their time. I'm reading it purely as an outsider to the medical world, but it has some interesting points to make.

Pierre

04-01-2022 10:12

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107951)

No link or research is required for the bleedin' obvious.

Absolutely but to appease it takes about 5 seconds.

See attached. Just type in "NHS at Breaking Point" and you are presented with articles from every year reporting just that. Click on any year.

papa smurf

04-01-2022 10:18

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36107955)

Absolutely but to appease it takes about 5 seconds.

See attached. Just type in "NHS at Breaking Point" and you are presented with articles from every year reporting just that. Click on any year.

could be argued that it takes les time to hughgle the info than to complain about the lack of it
hope this helps ;)

Maggy

04-01-2022 10:21

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.

Hugh	04-01-2022 10:24

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107951)

You appear to be confusing "inefficient" with "increasing demand, ageing population, half the number of hospital beds, not enough clinical and support staff, the Government removing Nurses Bursaries"…

Sometimes the "bleeding obvious" is just a misinformed opinion - like a large number of issues, people try to reduce very complex issues to simple problems, when this is not, in fact, true.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36107957)

could be argued that it takes les time to hughgle the info than to complain about the lack of it
hope this helps ;)

As much as usual…

1andrew1

04-01-2022 11:21

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)

Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.

:clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 11:21 ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107959)

Spot on. What would be more helpful would be some kind of benchmarking to similar services.

Carth

04-01-2022 11:30

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)

Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36107963)

:clap::clap::clap:

Excellent . . . that may stop some people posting stuff from Twitter, Facebook etc as a means to 'proving' their point. Same with opinion pieces from the media and 'experts', and an article published by much of the media nowadays is about as trustworthy as a second hand car salesperson . . don't get me started on Government released info :D

BenMcr

04-01-2022 11:35

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36107966)

Same with opinion pieces from the media and 'experts', and an article published by much of the media nowadays is about as trustworthy as a second hand car salesperson . . don't get me started on Government released info :D

What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?

Carth

04-01-2022 11:39

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36107967)

What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?

Bugger all mate if I'm honest . . . . everyone is out to get you, and I'm a 'shoot first' type of bloke :D

Sephiroth

04-01-2022 12:06

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36107958)

Some people have forgotten how to debate.Assertion is not debate. One needs to backup assertions with facts.Without links or guidance to the info it will fail to continue into debate.

Disagree. The bleedin’ obvious can always be debated. The bleedin’ obvious is already a fact.

---------- Post added at 12:02 ---------- Previous post was at 11:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36107967)

What sources does that actually leave that you would trust then?

The Torygraph for one; never wrong. Farage for another and for a different reason. On medical matters, the BMJ. On the bleedin’ obvious, the common sense of others, some of whom just enjoy being difficult.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107959)

What are you on about? The list you provided is evidence to support my evidence - namely the bleedin’ obvious that the NHS is on its knees.

I never mentioned “inefficient” in the post to which you replied.

1andrew1

04-01-2022 12:14

Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107970)

The Torygraph for one; never wrong.

The Telegraph is not as accurate as you might think.

Here's an example of how it's not never wrong. Not only did it publish significantly misleading information, it also tried to defend that significantly misleading information!

Quote:

An article by Toby Young for the Daily Telegraph was “significantly misleading” when it said that catching a cold could protect people from coronavirus and claimed that London was approaching herd immunity, the press regulator has ruled.

In a decision published on Thursday, the Independent Press Standards Organisation (Ipso) complaints committee ordered the Telegraph to publish a correction over the column, which was appeared in July last year under the headline: “When we have herd immunity Boris will face a reckoning on this pointless and damaging lockdown.”

It’s worth noting that this was not just a case of a mistake slipping through. Rather, the Daily Telegraph tried to defend the article to the regulator. But the regulator found a string of errors and refusals to correct:

The publication … misrepresented the nature of immunity and implied that people previously exposed to some common colds might be automatically immune to suffering symptoms and passing on Covid-19 to others … The publication did not offer to correct this significantly misleading statement …

The statement that cross-reactive T-cells mean “that the population of London is probably approaching herd immunity” was significantly misleading. It was misleading both as to how herd immunity is reached and whether it existed in London … the newspaper did not offer to correct this significantly misleading statement.

https://www.markpack.org.uk/166772/d...youngs-claims/

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