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Damien

12-07-2018 22:36

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Looks like we've gone...to the back of the queue.

I am actually more interested in the timing, ripping into May before his trip has started, and his comments about Boris making a good PM. Obama got a lot of flack for the back the queue comments but even he didn't go so far as to start tipping alternative Prime Ministers.(Although it is The Sun so they might have heavily spun an innocent comment)

Mick	12-07-2018 22:49

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35954277)

It’s gone to back of queue because May’s Brexit is not Brexit. Pat on back Mr. President, someone has to stand up for the electorate, our shameful MPs won’t.

1andrew1

12-07-2018 22:50

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35954216)

Nice to see Trump has turned aroud and said whatever happens to brexit has nothing to do with him and doesn't want to get involved unlike Obama.

That's either incorrect or he changed his mind quite quickly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35954276)

BREAKING: In an interview with Sun political editor, Tom Newton Dunn, President Trump has stated he doesn’t like Theresa May’s Brexit White Paper and will kill any U.S deal post-Brexit if her plan is executed because the U.S would still be dealing with the EU.

Damien

12-07-2018 22:53

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35954279)

It’s gone to back of queue because May’s Brexit is not Brexit. Pat on back Mr. President, someone has to stand up for the electorate, our shameful MPs won’t.

I don't see how this is that different to Obama commenting about the trade deal. Both seem to be getting involved in British politics. You've spent the last two years complaining about that. Obama said we would go to the back of the queue for a trade deal if Brexit went ahead, Trump is saying we won't get one if this deal goes ahead.

For the record I think both are factual statements ofI what the US policy is at the time.

As I said I think the fact he was weighed in on other elements of British politics is more surprising....

1andrew1

12-07-2018 23:05

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Article now live here https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/676653...t-us-deal-off/

Excerpt

Quote:

I told May how to do Brexit but she didn't listen to me

THERESA May’s new soft Brexit blueprint would “kill” any future trade deal with the United States, Donald Trump warns today.
Mounting an extraordinary attack on the PM’s exit negotiation, the President also reveals she has ignored his advice on how to toughen up the troubled talks.

Instead he believes Mrs May has gone “the opposite way”, and he thinks the results have been “very unfortunate”

His fiercest criticism came over the centrepiece of the PM’s new Brexit plan — which was unveiled in full yesterday.

It would stick to a common rulebook with Brussels on goods and agricultural produce in a bid to keep customs borders open with the EU.
But Mr Trump told The Sun: “If they do a deal like that, we would be dealing with the European Union instead of dealing with the UK, so it will probably kill the deal.“If they do that, then their trade deal with the US will probably not be made.”

Mr Trump made the bombshell intervention during a world exclusive interview with The Sun — the only British media outlet he spoke to before his arrival in the UK for his first visit as President.

It will pour nitroglycerine on the already raging Tory Brexiteer revolt against the PM.

And in more remarks that will set off alarm bells in No10, Mr Trump also said Mrs May’s nemesis Boris Johnson — who resigned over the soft Brexit blueprint on Monday — would “make a great Prime Minister”.

Mick	12-07-2018 23:06

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35954281)

I never said it was different, but what the hell, if Obama can intervene and get way with it, then go ahead Mr. Trump, you can to.

1andrew1

13-07-2018 00:05

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35954277)

It will certainly make for a less condusive atmosphere on Friday and interesting press conference!

Quote:

– Mr Trump and his wife will spend Thursday night at the ambassador’s residence, Winfield House.

Friday:
– Mr Trump will meet again with Mrs May for a visit to a defence site. Air restrictions have been put in place above the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst.
– The pair will then travel to Chequers, the Prime Minister’s country residence, for what is being billed as “substantive bilateral talks on a range of foreign policy issues” during a working lunch.
- A press conference is pencilled in for afterwards.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/676653...t-us-deal-off/

---------- Post added 13-07-2018 at 00:05 ---------- Previous post was 12-07-2018 at 23:22 ----------

Maybe there are grounds for optimism or the author was not briefed on The Sun's article. Liam Fox tweeted this at 11:17pm ie 17 minutes after The Sun article was published

Quote:

Terrific to hear @POTUS @realDonaldTrump talk so positively about UK & US Trade tonight at Blenheim Palace #BlenheimPalace #SpecialRelationship

https://twitter.com/LiamFox/status/1017533483437223936

Damien

13-07-2018 05:53

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35954283)

I never said it was different, but what the hell, if Obama can intervene and get way with it, then go ahead Mr. Trump, you can to.

Which is fair enough. I don't think Obama's comments were out of line and I don't think Trump's comments (on Brexit specifically) were out of line.

Mick	13-07-2018 12:20

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Drunken Juncker strikes again, this was yesterday at NATO, what a bloody joke....

Juncker = Piss head. :drunk:

OLD BOY

13-07-2018 14:11

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35954279)

It’s gone to back of queue because May’s Brexit is not Brexit. Pat on back Mr. President, someone has to stand up for the electorate, our shameful MPs won’t.

I think President Trump is perfectly entitled to speak his mind. If he sees a situation developing which means he sees a problem which will affect their ability or willingness to trade with us, then it is most definitely his business to say so.

However, I'm still not sure that we are interpreting Theresa May's proposals correctly. She is adamant that the deal she is proposing ends free movement, ends the huge payments to the EU and ends the rule of the ECJ. She also says her proposed deal 'means that we can make our own trade deals'. She says we will leave the EU's customs union and single market. We are leaving the CAP and the Common Fisheries Policy.

The bit that I, and I suspect many, don't fully understand is what she means by 'a new free trade area with the EU for goods, based on a common rulebook and a business-friendly customs model'.

What that says to me is that there will be a separate arrangement, outside the rules that will govern trade with the rest of the world, that will only apply to EU trade. So, in other words, a trade deal with the EU, which lays down certain rules, such as product specifications for safety, etc. As any trade deal would.

Now if I am right about that, I'm not understanding what the objections of Boris and his ilk are. What the proposals appear to give us are the ability to trade with the rest of the world free of EU shackles, and a ready made trade deal with the EU.

Provided that we are still totally free to create our own employment laws and divest ourselves of the hated Working Time Directive, Acquired Rights Directive, etc, then I cannot see what all the fuss is about.

Could someone who is dead against Theresa's plan please tell me what they think is wrong with it? I keep thinking I'm missing something. What is it?

Just to be clear, my view is that we either get a deal that allows a full Brexit with the ability to trade elsewhere in the world free of EU encumbrances or we go full on WTO. We are not deliberately seeking to stop trading with the EU altogether, or even reduce it. There is nothing wrong with getting the best of both worlds.

Mr Trump may also come to that conclusion after speaking to Mrs May today.

---------- Post added at 14:11 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35954329)

Drunken Juncker strikes again, this was yesterday at NATO, what a bloody joke....

Juncker = Piss head. :drunk:

So what is it, folks? Trump or Junker? :D

jonbxx

13-07-2018 16:12

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35954349)

Provided that we are still totally free to create our own employment laws and divest ourselves of the hated Working Time Directive, Acquired Rights Directive, etc, then I cannot see what all the fuss is about.

What's wrong with the working time directive and Transfers of Undertakings Directive? They seem pretty good at preventing exploitation of workers to me. I guess employers would like to have the right to not provide holidays, rest breaks, etc. or give pay cuts on takeovers but I bet employees don't.

1andrew1

13-07-2018 16:27

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35954359)

They're not necessarily bad for employers as they give staff the reassurance not to walk out of the door in the event of a takeover/divestment thereby increasing the valuations of companies. Working time directive lots of companies require you to sign a contract against it so not too relevant in the UK.

Sephiroth

13-07-2018 16:42

Re: Brexit Discussion (New thread-Follow First Post Rules!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35954359)

Please forgive me for saying that you've contrived your argument without taking into account the real situation that prevailed at the time of the Directive's origin.

The Working Time Directive contains much of value EXCEPT the 48 hours rule. Thank goodness there is a mechanism for individuals opting out. Back in the 90s, they tried to push this through under veto rules. When we vetoed it, they re-introduced this under the Health & Safety banner so it could be passed by majority vote.

Why did we veto it? They wouldn't remove the 48 hour rule, which was put in there to please France and its restrictive labour laws. The rest of the EU (as it had become) didn't like the labour competitiveness that prevailed in the UK.

Remind me - why did we vote for Brexit?