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-   -   U.S President: Donald Trump (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704412)

Pierre 23-02-2017 22:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887202)
we had a referendum in 1975 and the result was to remain in the EEC as the EU was known then .A lot of posters are constantly banging on about respecting the result of the democratic process so by that logic we would not have had a second referendum .If people campaign or voice dissent against a democratic decision that is not disrespect for the decision ,that is democracy in action
That is complete bollocks and once again you prove to us all you have no clue.

The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.

There have been many treaties since then that moved the EEC towards EU that we had no say in. The one I Remember was the Maastricht treaty which I think gave the EU state powers, for want of a better term. We had no say. Ireland had a referendum and voted against it. Then had to have another one until they got to the right result.

Just get your facts rights and stop posting crap.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Quote:
There is also an indefinite ban on Syrian refugees
Wise.

nomadking 23-02-2017 22:01
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887220)
The Obama EO overturned by the Federal District Court was one that allowed 5 million immigrants illegally resident in the USA to stay in the country (the case was brought by Texas and 20 other States).

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/23/po...supreme-court/

The Supreme Court dead-locked on it, so the lower court ruling stood.
The Obama one I'm on about is the change to the visa waiver scheme. That is still in place. It applies to anybody trying to use the visa waiver scheme, who has visited the named countries since March 2011,

Hugh 23-02-2017 22:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35887246)
The Obama one I'm on about is the change to the visa waiver scheme. That is still in place. It applies to anybody trying to use the visa waiver scheme, who has visited the named countries since March 2011,
You appear to be confusing a ban with having to apply for a visa...

And they were implemented by due process, review, and Congressional oversight, not by EO.

pip08456 24-02-2017 02:17
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Not being conversant with US law and their consitution I don't know if this is a real threat to Trump.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/1...llify-Election

Seems plausible or it might just end up like the Brexit court cases have so far.

Mick 24-02-2017 03:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35887265)
Not being conversant with US law and their consitution I don't know if this is a real threat to Trump.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/2/1...llify-Election

Seems plausible or it might just end up like the Brexit court cases have so far.
There is nothing in US Constitution for reelections or nullify the entire US Election result.

Only way to remove a president is Impeach. Impeachment only removes individual(s) if they have committed serious offences or misdemeanours, but the removal of the entire Republican ticket, it just won't happen.

martyh 24-02-2017 07:10
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35887244)
That is complete bollocks and once again you prove to us all you have no clue.

The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.

There have been many treaties since then that moved the EEC towards EU that we had no say in. The one I Remember was the Maastricht treaty which I think gave the EU state powers, for want of a better term. We had no say. Ireland had a referendum and voted against it. Then had to have another one until they got to the right result.

Just get your facts rights and stop posting crap.

---------- Post added at 22:01 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------



Wise.
You need to stop with the hostility towards people that don't agree with you

The point i made to Passingbat in reply to his "Sadly liberals don't like the results of a democratic vote that they don't agree with, especially ones that upset their politically correct liberal agenda."comment was that we already had a democratic vote in 1975 and the reason why we have Brexit is because people didn't accept it and wanted change .


Quote:
The EEC that we joined was a trading block, a free market.

It was not a political body.
That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952

nomadking 24-02-2017 07:25
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35887249)
You appear to be confusing a ban with having to apply for a visa...

And they were implemented by due process, review, and Congressional oversight, not by EO.
Makes no difference whether by EO or not. The underlying aspect of how which countries are affected remains the SAME. The Judges didn't say no because it was an EO, but because of the nonsense about discrimination. Whatever criteria you use would always involve affecting certain group(s) more than others. It would be impossible to come up with a hypothetical case that wouldn't.

The EO is a temporary measure to stop people rushing in before any tougher new measures are introduced and those WILL through the full legislative route of Congress etc.

passingbat 24-02-2017 08:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887276)

That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952

That's true. But those intentions were kept well hidden from Joe Public. So we can add deception as another massive reason to dump membership of the federal states of Europe.

Pierre 24-02-2017 08:56
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35887276)
You need to stop with the hostility towards people that don't agree with you
I'm just hostile to people that post tripe.

Quote:
The point i made to Passingbat in reply to his "Sadly liberals don't like the results of a democratic vote that they don't agree with, especially ones that upset their politically correct liberal agenda."comment was that we already had a democratic vote in 1975 and the reason why we have Brexit is because people didn't accept it and wanted change .
But that's tripe and you know it.

The EU as it is today is nothing like what was put to the British public in the guise of the EEC.

We should have had several referendums along the way but we were denied them.

Quote:
That is completely wrong the EEC was always intended to be a political body from its inception in 1952
maybe in Brussels and Strasbourg, but it wasn't divulged to the UK public at the time. At no point during EEC vote did they say, "oh yes and our ultimate aim is to create a European superstate"

Your entire argument is completely fallacious.

Hugh 24-02-2017 09:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36367246
Quote:
A common complaint from those who voted to remain in the EEC in 1975 is that they were hoodwinked - they thought they were voting for a trading arrangement but ended up with a bossy "superstate".

This is not entirely true. Sovereignty - the ability to run our own affairs - was very much an issue in the 1975 referendum.

Enoch Powell, the maverick right wing Tory who had just become an Ulster Unionist MP, and left wing Labour cabinet minister Tony Benn - the loudest voices in the Out campaign - talked endlessly about it.

In its leaflet to voters, the Out campaign warned that the Common Market "sets out by stages to merge Britain with France, Germany, Italy and other countries into a single nation," in which Britain would be a "mere province".

The In campaign openly acknowledged that being a member of the EEC involved "pooling" sovereignty with the eight other nations who were members at the time.

heero_yuy 24-02-2017 10:14
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
But, sorry to stray from topic:

Quote:
As the book extensively documented, the two prime ministers who took us into “Europe”, Harold Macmillan and Edward Heath, were both made fully aware that the “Common Market” was only ever intended to be a front to the project’s real, long-term political intentions. But in 1961 Macmillan told his Cabinet how vital it was that this must be kept out of view. The deal must be sold to the British people as no more than an “economic arrangement”, affecting no more than trade and jobs – as was faithfully echoed by Heath in 1971.
Linky

Pierre 24-02-2017 12:24
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I think we're straying into the wrong thread, best keep it on Trump.

passingbat 24-02-2017 13:55
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35887299)
But, sorry to stray from topic:



Linky

Good find.


In a good number of ways, Brexit and Trump's victory are linked. Immigration, control of borders, depletion of manufacturing, globalism leaving normal working people behind, distrust of the political establishment etc.


Sovereignty was an issue for Brexit, but not in such an obvious way for the USA, but TPP was actually a back door erosion of Sovereignty for the USA, which Trump was against.


So it is not a surprise that some Brexit references are relevant.


The main difference, that happened in the USA elections, but not in the Brexit referendum, was the large vote for Trump from the Evangelical Christians, who decided to look past the man, and vote for policies, which promised a turn in direction from the morally liberal views of Obama and Clinton. Also, Trump's support for Israel was a big factor in their choice of candidate.

Osem 24-02-2017 14:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35887284)
That's true. But those intentions were kept well hidden from Joe Public. So we can add deception as another massive reason to dump membership of the federal states of Europe.
Correct. The common market was sold to us as a trading club amongst a group of northern European nations not a political vehicle dedicated to the creation of a single state embracing numerous economically and culturally diverse nations.

Just to get back on topice, not ven the most venomous Trump hater can accuse him of being responsible for any of it however. :D

Mr Banana 24-02-2017 22:51
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Wonder what Trump will tweet about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39072816

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...s_volumes.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/0...063319878.html


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