Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well apparently SNP say that’s just fine. So if Scotland could make it on their own. England and Wales would do just fine.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Amazing that people would want to throw away over 300 years of Union - what next, kick out the North, Wales, and Cornwall because they run a deficit?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I thought we were trying to make Great Britain great again? Splitting apart will hardly achieve that.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's about the constant whingeing from those areas. They are the ones wanting separation.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Personally I think we should get rid of the SE Region. That would make Britain great again !

It's going to be first to go under anyway come the floods, so only a matter of time ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I think most people in the UK want Scotland to be part of the UK, but if there was to be another referendum and Scotland wanted out, then it should be a clean break. No more Barnett formula, no more British pound, no more BBC in Scotland, etc.

Out means out.

(pauses in anticipation of some joker who wants to know what 'out' actually means...) :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If they vote to leave then the only democratic thing to do is have a peoples vote to give them the chance to stay,because they didn't know what they were voting for and we now have so much more information,oh and some bloke wrote something on a bus somewhere that i didn't like;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So how would the downsized UK you envisage fare if the source of wealth generated by the SE was cut off?

The SE, of course, would be the new 'Singapore'!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Wealth generated in the SE and spent in the SE doesn't benefit anyone in the wider country anyway.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Perhaps he should come down to parts of Devon and Cornwall where economic deprivation is very prevalent.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There is no doubt that the south west suffers from economic depravation, which is surprising since this area attracts so many tourists.

Having visited Torquay last year, I was struck by how run down the town centre was.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That is the problem with quite a few places sadly OB that have plenty of tourists but not much else apart from a few attractions.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

One of the areas of the UK that will be hit most by the withdrawal of EU funding ( Cornwall is getting over 1000 euro per person EU funding between 2014 - 2020). So if you think its bad now....
You can bet any savings from Brexit won't get channelled as much to the regions, but stay in the SE where the rich will continue to get richer. This is also about personal gain from the likes of JRM and Bozza. They care not for the regional plebs, but do care about personal wealth and power for themselves.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Part of it will simply be geography. They aren't really part of the main land mass. You have to travel a long way to get anywhere. Eg 140miles from Truro to Bristol.

---------- Post added at 17:27 ---------- Previous post was at 17:26 ----------

And your evidence for that is........?


The bulk of any "EU" money actually comes from the UK in the first place. Eg Any money received is deducted from the 66% EU rebate. Disregarding our net contribution to the EU, 2/3rds of that money has come from the UK.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Newcastle is further from London than Truro (by 20 miles).

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

But you can drop off at other places along the way. A lot of the central distribution places are in the south midlands(eg Northampton), because of the ease of UK wide distribution. Newcastle also has it's problems because of its relative geographic isolation.

Let's face it, it you want to go anywhere other than somewhere like Bristol from Devon/Cornwall, you have to go a very long way. They are relatively geographically isolated.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Therefore need more government support...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Has anyone said otherwise? English areas are funded on a system of formulae, which use many different social and geographical factors. Ie Areas that have issues get more funding. Scotland is different in that they have so much money, they can hand out freebies of various kinds. If the Barnett formula was stopped for Scotland they would still get extra funding because of the funding formulae, but nowhere near as much as they get now. They would still be fairly funded.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

What Scotland leaving this wonderful (dis)United Kingdom....

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You don't know what you've got til it's gone, as they say...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Maybe it's a moot point as the climate will do it sooner?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

More fake news..:D.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I hope Scotland never becomes Independent. Nicola S things we are all robots to do and say what she wants, No Way do I want to lose the £ either, Everything they have done is failing or already failed, , I believe in a United Kingdom and always will.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Same here. I hope it's the SNP and Sturgeon that disappear first. Better yet, send all the Nats off to a distant Island and let them run that into the ground.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well said Stephen, we do not want one, the thought of using anothe currency is ludicrous

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Why is it ludicrous? Same value at the end of the day, the name is irrelevant. If Scotland had the Euro since.2016, it would be much better off than the rest of the UK.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Rockall? Plenty of room on there for wee Jimmy and all of her friends.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

How would they have been much better off, when an important step would've been to reduce their deficit by 5%. That's a reduction in annual spending of about £8.5bn.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It's funny, isn't it, that SNP supporters have such a problem with figures?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I get really annoyed when people as much as say "let Scotland go". All Scotland does not want to go , we love the United Kingdom we do not want out, We are trying as much as we can to get rid of Nicola and her nasty party, We have relatives in England and friends we do not want this separation ,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I doubt introducing currency exchange into the near £50 billion of goods and services Scottish companies sell to English customers each year would have done much to make us better off. Nor do I think many people having to visit a bureau de change before going shopping in Newcastle or Carlisle, or visiting family in Manchester or London, would think themselves better off either.

And the major deficit reduction programme Scotland would have to implement as a Euro member ... well that might pinch a bit too. £8 billion less spending per year in a country addicted to welfare freebies like prescriptions and nationwide pensioner bus passes, and a disproportionately high number of serious welfare cases compared to England, would make the SNP’s support base in the favelas of Glasgow and Dundee somewhat restless.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Unfortunately, nashville, it seems that a very sizeable minority of Scots dislike or even despise the English. This is what is causing the reaction from the south. No-one I know despises the Scots, but there can be no doubt that this persistent call for independence from Sturgeon's party is whipping people up against the SNP. Most English do not dislike the Scots, though. I have never come across this in all my years.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As an English man living in Scotland almost 15 years, I can tell you I’ve never once encountered hatred ... and I know a few card carrying SNP members.

These people certainly exist but they’re not even a large minority. Though I agree the SNP’s rhetoric is unhelpful as it very often sounds like “Westminster” is code for “the English”.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

New datapoint on the independence question:

My Scotland poll: Yes to independence takes the lead/

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/08/1.jpg
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/08/2.jpg

Just a datapoint but I can see that after No Deal hit the fan, this sentiment will increase ..

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

So what? There have been polls still saying no after the Brexit vote and ones saying yes before any Scottish referendum vote.

Perhaps the Scots should concentrate on getting their deficit down to 3%, rather than around the 8% it is now. EU rules that they are supposed to be in favour of, insist on a maximum of 3%.

Considering there ISN'T a deal of any sort on the table, what is this magical "known" alternative? Are we expected to simply accept whatever the EU throws our way, regardless of what it is?


There is so much completely unexplained about what would happen in an independent Scotland. Eg how to deal with a hard England-Scotland border. A lot of Scottish imports and exports go via England.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Polls like this come around from time to time and have done so for many years. Boris-Brexit may be the pretext for this one but it hasn’t been for any of the past ones and won’t be in future. The vast, vast majority of polls, taken over many years, are no, no and no.

Scottish politics can be quite nuanced and is frequently misunderstood by those who do not follow it closely (and that is quite hard to do without living here).

Pollsters frequently pick issues which they know will enrage sufficient numbers of Scottish voters and run an independence poll in the immediate aftermath. An upswing in support for independence always makes good headlines, especially during the summer silly season when little else is happening.

But the underlying sentiment hasn’t changed. When people are confronted with the actual issues and severe difficulties of independence, rather than the latest Tory bogeyman, then a comfortable majority of them remain supportive of the union.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Leaving seems to be the 'in thing', who can blame the Scots? Don't see that the UK will be particularly attractive post Brexit. I'm a Remainer all round, find it curious that those that are so fond of Leaving want the Scots to Remain in the post Brexit Little England. Europe offers them and us so much more. Hope they stay but I'd be for leaving the UK if I was a Scot.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I definately do not want another referendum. I said No and I meant No, God help us we we were ruled by Sturgeon or her crown ,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

On the other hand, the prospect of Scottish Independence happening on this polling 52%-48%. Would be pretty funny.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Using often used Remainer logic, the vote would still be against independence.
That's 54% not in favour. Plus the referendum would be advisory only and people wouldn't know what they were voting for.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Times: Labour and SNP hint at a pact to oust Johnson. Labour will not block a second referendum on Scottish independence, says shadow chancellor.

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2...08%20Times.JPG

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That hinges on Labour being the largest party in a hung parliament after a general election, and there being enough SNP MPs to give them a working majority on confidence and supply issues. It’s problematic for a number of reasons. First, neither of those conditions is anywhere near certain, and second, the Scottish branch of the party absolutely hates it. They loathe the SNP, which presently occupies large numbers of seats that Scottish Labour considers its property.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That would be very short sighted of Labour. If they did that, it would have a devastating impact on the likelihood of them ever getting into power again south of the border.

Anyway if Boris gets a 'no deal' through, the opinion polls show that a Conservative Government would be elected with a good working majority, so I wouldn't take this talk very seriously, to be honest.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Link, please, to these polls?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

According to the news Labour in Scotland would not be against another Referendum , So there goes my vote for Labour,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That’s not what I’m reading: https://order-order.com/2019/08/07/s...nell-indyref2/

“Scottish Labour Leader Richard Leonard held what will have been a fairly robust meeting with the Shadow Chancellor this morning, issuing a statement:

I made clear to him that a second independence referendum is unwanted by the people of Scotland and it is unnecessary… The 2014 referendum was a once in a generation vote.
Scottish MPs and MSPs have since piled in. Ian Murray MP led a blistering attack on McDonnell, saying:

“These are utterly irresponsible comments from John McDonnell that betray our party’s values… McDonnell has even bought into the nationalist narrative that Westminster is an ‘English Parliament’, in an insult to the hard work carried out by Scottish MPs from every party.”

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes I heard what Richard said on the news, Thank goodness for his comments

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Vote to get the Nat out, whenever the election comes. If Labour is in second place and previously held your seat, vote for them. Happily my local MP is already a Tory so I just have to keep supporting him.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

These are the latest opinion poll showings.

https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Thanks - I can't find one that supports

Those show neck and neck results (Con v Lab, and LibDems v Brexit).

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

My hunch if we do have a general election which seems to be a near enough certainly is we are highly likely to be in hung parliament territory again no deal or not as there are many who are unhappy in regards to the political stances currently taken by both major parties and l can also see a lot of tactical voting as well..

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They would probably be 'what if' polls that don't get included in poll trackers as they aren't asking the same question and are contingent on different scenarios actually happening, plus they're treated with a greater degree of scepticism because they ask people to imagine how they would feel later rather than what they're feeling now.

The standard poll tracking/general election questions always ask: How you vote if there was a General Election today.

I think the whole 'Tories win in a No Deal scenario' assumes no negative consequences for which the voters blame the Government. If we have a recession, if we have problems around logistics, if people feel less economically secure then that might hurt the Tories. I would imagine the Brexit Party would try to capitalise on it too saying they 'made a mess' of Brexit.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

You only need to win the right poll, once, and that's it for ALL ETERNITY. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

True - but we won the right poll in 2014. And Alex and Nicola helpfully, at the time, not only described it as a “once in a generation “ event but also willingly participated in a process which acknowledged Westminster’s continuing supremacy in constitutional issues. So they can whinge all they like but they can’t have another one without permission.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Unless the vote indicates the electorate wants Brexit! Then you keep running it over and over until they vote the 'right' way.

A referendum should be viewed as an instruction to government as to the direction they want it to proceed. Once done, it's up to the Government to get on with it.

Referendums should be used very sparingly and should not become the norm.We elect politicians to make decisions on our behalf. The Scots have made their decision. Now it should be honoured. The SNP should be concentrating on increasing their devolved powers, not going for independence.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Referendums should be used when a matter necessitates it. If Scotland continually backs an SNP Government with that in its manifesto that's literally the will of the people. They have the mandate to run one every single day of the year until people get bored and vote for someone else.

That's democracy.

What you want the SNP to do, as an English person living in England, is entirely irrelevant to the matter.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

That's not democracy. That's chaos.

If the SNP get a landslide majority of three-quarters of the voting electorate to go independent, that should be enough for them to petition the government for independence.

Referendums every day? What are you on? You just like to be perverse.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Wonder why this has suddenly become topical again? What could possibly be causing the UK to break up ? Answers on a postcard......

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If people vote for the SNP they get to decide. That's politics in Edinburgh just as much as in London. If people want something else they should vote for someone else.

I don't know why it has to be a "landslide". Nobody uses that threshold to stop a Conservative manifesto on 40 per cent of the vote and minority of seats.

If you want to look at chaos look at London since June 2016.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Labour being in favour of Scottish independence is more than a bit sinister. Overnight they would lose a large chunk of their UK electorate and it would make it less likely they would be in UK Government again. What are they planning to put in place for eternity, that could never be overturned? No other possible motive for it.


A huge downside to a no-deal Brexit is that it leaves it open for Corbyn to make a nasty deal with the EU that we could never get out of or even change.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In fairness they aren't saying they are in favour of independence they're saying the decision on whether to hold a vote (or not) should be made in Edinburgh. It's a fairly uncontroversial notion, really. Especially if, as everyone keeps saying, there's no appetite for Scottish independence.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Sick of the word Independence, We need to be all together as one nation. We could never survive on our own, I believe N S only cares about being the one to go down in history for breaking up Britain, There are plenty in Scotland think the same,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Up to the Scottish people not politicians. Anyway,
we're breaking up from Europe, so why can't Scotland break away from the UK if they want? We could call it Scexit...

Really don't think the Brexit brigade have thought through all the consequences, Scottish independence being more likely is one.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

We get to keep the excess billions we currently send to Scotland, and then there is the money to come from the huge divorce bill. How is Scotland going to reduce their massive deficit? Deal with hard borders and tariffs with everywhere including England. The list goes on and on.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Up to them though, not you, unless you're Scottish ;)

They might do something radical like joining a bigger Union than the UK...

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If any of that’s true why would you want Scotland to stay?

Why not just say, oh well, good luck lads?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Poor boy, you really have no idea how the SNP operates, do you? :rofl:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Such as? There would be a long wait to join the EU. Just getting their deficit to below 3% will take forever.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Same here, I really hate the SNP and everything they stand for. NS and the Muppet before her are just wanting independence at any cost.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Because it would be a constitutional change.

---------- Post added at 01:04 ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 ----------

England could survive on its own. Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland could not.

Someone needs to present the economic reality to Scots Nationalist voters.

If anyone seriously believes that Scotland could manage on its own, then why does the SNP keep bleating on about the Barnett Formula?

---------- Post added at 01:08 ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 ----------

Because the electorate voted to leave the EU, just as they voted for the UK to stay together.

What is it with you guys that time and again you want to ignore the will of the electorate? We do live in a democracy, you know.

The people have decided. The politicians need to note accordingly and implement. End of.

---------- Post added at 01:10 ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 ----------

Not really. We are the United Kingdom and we should all have a say. If there are ever any more referendums on Scottish independence, we should all have a say.

---------- Post added at 01:13 ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 ----------

Joining the EU and leaving the UK would not be in the interests of the Scots.

The independence from the UK argument is being pursued by those who hate the English, let's face it!

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A constitutional change requires a landslide?

That’s just made up nonsense because you’re terrified of the Union crumbling.

The rest of the UK should have a say on Scottish independence? A threshold literally no independent nation has ever been held to, anywhere in the world?

As for ignoring the will of the electorate I’m not sure how that fits if the SNP are the largest party in the Scottish Parliament, and a majority of Scottish MPs? They’re literally the elected Government in Scotland implementing their manifesto pledge.

Laughably absurd but strangely unsurprising, Old Boy.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Party manifestos cover a range of issues and are generally reversible by throwing out the party that implemented it after 5 years. Major constitutional change, such as Scotland breaking the union with England, is not reversible. It is not a policy on the same scale and with similar significance to, say, NHS funding and cannot properly be considered alongside it.

This was - belatedly - recognised for the first time in the British constitution by the holding of a confirmatory referendum after our joining of the EU. With referendums since held on Welsh and Scottish devolution (twice in Scotland), Scottish independence, the Westminster voting system and again on membership of the EU, it is now a well established precedent in our constitution that major changes to the constitution of the UK require the specific consent of the people to that specific issue.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I agree. The manifesto commitment (holding a referendum) isn’t major constitutional change in itself though,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

But being prepared to honour a "Yes" decision is. By allowing a vote on something, by implication you are saying the result will be honoured and implemented. More than a little bit disingenuous to say "we don't like the result, so we're going to do the opposite". A democratic country ceases to be democratic, if it ignores a democratic vote.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Parties get the opportunity to stand on manifestos every few years. Elections held are democratic. It’s their prerogative to push the referendum as often as they please. If people continue to vote for them I don’t see what the issue is.

It’s just fear that the entire UK will collapse from unionists but I don’t think that’s anything to worry about either. It’s solves England’s identity crisis in one go.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

England has the least to fear as this is the beating heart of the economy. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would not be able to survive alone without impoverishment of the population.

England does stand stronger as part of the UK, but if it were to be on its own because all the regions separated from the UK, it would no longer have to bail them out and England would come through.

England would also benefit from a significant reduction of any future threat of a Labour Government.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Elections are only democratic if the result influences the outcome. If instead the outcome depends on the opinion of certain self-selecting people, then the vote isn't democratic.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Can the English have a referendum on kicking Scotland out?

:D :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Then why are you so concerned about it?

---------- Post added at 10:35 ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 ----------

Gladly. :)

---------- Post added at 10:36 ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 ----------

Eh? That’s representative democracy around the globe. Why should Scotland be any different?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

A single issue referendum isn't anything to do with representative democracy. That is why there was an EU referendum. The issue crossed party lines. There was no other way for people to have a definitive say on the matter.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Yes, I’m not disagreeing. However if a party puts in a commitment for a referendum and forms a government then it’s entitled to hold one.

This “once in a generation” nonsense - and yes I’m aware SNP people said it - is just sentimental claptrap. In a functioning democracy a party that governs can hold a referendum. If that outcome is different from a previous one on the same issue then fine the people have changed their mind.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

True, but the social upheaval is significant. The political debate in Scotland has become quite poisonous since 2014, and the referendum campaign itself was not without its financial cost, not to mention how much of the day to day running of government simply didn’t happen for about 18 months in the run up (nor for long spells afterwards, while the SNP devoted all its time to trying to engineer sufficient grievance to justify round 2 - at one point Holyrood went about 14 months without enacting a single piece of primary legislation, except the finance bill).

The SNP does not have a majority of seats in Holyrood and they have only able to progress any votes on a further referendum with support from the Greens. The SNP’s manifesto commitment to push for a second referendum in the event of any significant change in circumstances (with Brexit given as a specific example) breached the undertaking they made during the 2014 referendum campaign that this was, unqualified, a once-in-a generation, if not once a lifetime, event.

So you can argue that the SNP’s manifesto is a clear mandate for them, even if it’s a breach of trust, however, crucially, it’s the Green manifesto that’s the spanner in the works. Their manifesto stated very clearly the conditions under which a second referendum should be held; they called for a petitioning process that enabled a second referendum only to be called by direct will of the people and specifically ruled out questions of “party political advantage”.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/0...king-sturgeon/

So there are essentially two strands at work here as I see it.

1. SNP and Green between them have a majority of seats at Holyrood but based on both their manifestos, as voted on in the last Holyrood general election, they do not have a majority of seats that were won on a commitment to a second referendum, in this parliament, to be called by vote of MSPs.

2. The British Parliament is sovereign in all constitutional matters and that sovereignty carries with it a responsibility to ensure stability and good governance. Regardless of manifesto commitments made in a Scottish election, a divisive constitutional referendum must be a decisive, once and for all event, or else government becomes consumed permanently by one single issue. That has been the case in Scotland since late 2013 and it has become the case across the UK recently too.

The UK government, supervised by Parliament, has every right to tell the Scottish nationalists to do one and not to change that position until conditions dictate otherwise. I more or less agree with the Scottish Green manifesto here - there must be sustained evidence of a change of heart in Scotland before we submit ourselves to it again. Thus far, there is no sustained evidence of any change, and never has been. Yes majority polls like the one released last week occur from time to time but they are always isolated.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Political discourse is poisonous all over the world, that’s not unique to Scotland either.

If people don’t feel the SNP are appropriately governing there’s a process for that and it’s up to the Scottish Labour Party, Lib Dems or Conservatives to offer a progressive alternative vision for Scotland other than a Union Flag to appeal to a certain proportion of the population that would be more at home in the DUP.

The British Parliament is neither decisive nor offering good governance. So I’m unsure how to address point two.

Not commencing social upheaval due to wafer thin mandates, as opposed to decisive ones, is an interesting concept. I’ll give it that.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Everything SNP do fails the people of Scotland. We all do not want Indy2 she had her chance and cannot except it, N S things if it is not her way she is not playing, Cannot stand her or her policies, I am Scottish and British,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Replying to a post in the Brexit Development (post #2009) discussions, but posting it here to keep that thread "on topic".

So if Wee Jimmie Crankie gets 46% of the Scottish vote and a majority of the seats in the May 2021 Scottish Parliament election, will she have a "clear democratic mandate" for independence, considering that will be the main thing in their manifesto?

Asking for (non-Scottish) friend ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If the SNP run with an Independence vote in their manifesto, and they convincingly win, they have a mandate for a vote. However democracy is a moveable feast Hugh; you can be sure different 'Boris' rules apply. Just a matter of time, and Brexit has shifted the odds in favour of the nationalists.

Interestingly a Yorkshire Nationalist stood in my constituency (and got a respectable vote). I was very tempted ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The Remain/Better Together/Unionist campaign needs to start planning now for the next referendum because we have to assume it's going to happen. Nationalists will be planning now, the SNP is effectively a continuous campaign, whereas Unionists tend to have the issue down their pack of priorities only kicking into gear when the threat becomes immediate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There is a well established cross-party unionist campaign in Scotland. It just rarely gets any airtime south of the border.

https://www.scotlandinunion.co.uk/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Love to know how many of the SNP's "successes" are purely down to the excess money they get from England? How much of it, is pure Scottish "grown".

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hugh, you really do love superficial similarities a bit too much. ;)

The once-in-a-generation referendum was held in 2014 and we all participated in good faith. The outcome was ‘no’, and as the constitution remains a reserved issue we now expect the UK government to ensure the result is respected.

The Holyrood Parliament is not a sovereign institution; it legislates on devolved matters and the Scottish government exercises devolved powers. In the light of the result of the once-in-a-generation 2014 referendum, nothing in any manifesto that makes promises or assertions that go beyond Holyrood’s legislative remit need be entertained.

Of course the SNP wants another referendum - that’s why they exist, and after all they lost the last one. None of that justifies continuing referendums until the ‘right’ result comes along. The same basic principle underpins the Tory approach to Brexit as well as the matter of a second Scottish referendum.

Incidentally, it is very unlikely she would get a majority in Holyrood on 46%, though the useful idiots in the Scottish Greens abandoned their own 2016 manifesto commitment not to support another referendum without major, explicit public backing and voted for one in this parliament so it has to be assumed they would do so again.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

As widely trailed and fully expected, Boris has sent Nicoliar homeward to think again:

https://order-order.com/2020/01/14/r...endum-request/

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Too right. It's time for everyone to stick together and get through the mess of Brexit before anything else.

I also noted his dog at Sturgeon and the SNP with their focus on Independence rather than running the country properly.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Fed up with Nicola and her party, Scotland can never go it alone , Scotland is failing on schools ,hospitals housing etc and the certainly could not run Scotland on its own, We all need each other as one whole Britain, Too much hatred in the the SNP we do not want a division, We love our English friends and families and we do not want borders etc,

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I see what ypu did there :D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

But “they” don’t.

The SNP’s support in last month’s election was 45%. Perhaps that number seems familiar. ;)

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

I wonder what the SNP vote would look like if they had to live within their means, ie deficit of less than 3%, rather than 8%. How would they cope with such a big drop in spending?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Nothing will happen until after the Scottish elections anyway.

Problem is with U.K. election the collapse of Labour and the usual distain for the Tory’s leaves Scotland, and Scottish socialists with little to choose from.

By all accounts ( I don’t live there so don’t know) the SNP aren’t doing a great job, and the Scottish elections would be a good opportunity to give them a bloody nose. If they do badly the issue of a referendum may dissipate.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

SNP and Green only need to lose 5 seats between them in order for the referendum majority to disappear.

That is of course unless Scottish Labour totally fails to learn any lessons from the UK party’s disastrous equivocation over Brexit and starts going lukewarm in its opposition to Scottish independence, or at least the possibility of a referendum (some in the party here are already suggesting this). It’s quite possible that after 2021 only the Tories and the Lib Dems will be explicitly against another referendum. If Scottish Labour remains neutral then, barring a massive collapse in the SNP vote, there will be an endless procession of set-piece votes in Holyrood between 2021 and 2025.