Cable Forum - Your predictions under Labour

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Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36178775)

To you maybe. Most people would not discuss the term Wealth tax in the same sentence as "if person A earns a £100 and invests it"

Maybe they should.

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36178781)

Because you want things like the NHS, schools, roads defence etc...
.

All of which are in a right state, because the money they take is not spent wisely, because it’s not theirs, it’s ours.

If the existing tax and spend was managed correctly, we probably wouldn’t need to increase tax or tax people multiple times…………but that’s probably a different discussion.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

A few things are happening now:

Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space
Ban on wind farms revoked - they'll also take the power away from local councils to decide if they're built
A load of new town developments which were on hold will be built
They've overruled a few councils' decisions not to build data centres and given approval themselves

The main trend so far is a very aggressive approach forcing things to be built.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36178790)

A few things are happening now:

Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space
Ban on wind farms revoked - they'll also take the power away from local councils to decide if they're built
A load of new town developments which were on hold will be built
They've overruled a few councils' decisions not to build data centres and given approval themselves

The main trend so far is a very aggressive approach forcing things to be built.

Are you aware if bullets 2 & 4 are applicable to Wales, we also have a ban by Welsh Labour on building any roads.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36178781)

Because you want things like the NHS, schools, roads defence etc...

If not from here it has to come room somewhere else. Where do you suggest? Income tax, vat, council tax? You'll pay one way or another.

Raise the price of tax on alcohol ? Raise fuel duty ? Introduce fines for people who deliberately fail to attend drs appointments? Go after large companies who are avoiding paying tax. Stop wasting so much of the public coffers on nonsense projects (like HS2)

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 36178791)

Are you aware if bullets 2 & 4 are applicable to Wales, we also have a ban by Welsh Labour on building any roads.

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36178793)

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

The planning system is devolved, but I think 2 and 4 align with Scottish Government positions.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36178793)

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

The detail for Wales is never clear.

There's currently a windfarm proposal locally, so I'm guessing the rules of the last government didn't apply to Wales.

https://mynydd-llanhilleth.co.uk/wp-...eaflet-eng.pdf

We used to look out of the window at work in the Blackwood area in South Wales. I can't remember if it was five or six we could see, but it was surprising how often none of them were turning and usually less than half were turning.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36178779)

Sorry, I agree with others , if I’ve worked to earn the money and already paid tax/NI then if I choose to invest it why exactly should I be taxed again ?

I’m getting very tired of HMRC spanking me at every opportunity not even interest on my savings is safe

You misunderstand my point. I am not suggesting taxing your money twice and again, this point does not apply to 95+% of the population unless your net worth is in the tens of £millions :)

If you have large amounts of capital, assets, etc. that increase in value or generate income then you should pay tax on these increases at the rate everyone else does. Why should a multi millionaire/billionaire have an effective tax rate of a fraction of, for example, a nurse or care worker.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Release a load of prisoners ?
I guess it didnt take long for madness to kick in.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36178802)

It does not take earning tens of millions to get you taxed twice.

You could be earning 35k per year and get RSU’s in a startup and you’re getting hit for tax on the RSU’s NI AND employers NI

To answer your question re millionaire vs nurse
The millionaire has zero personal tax allowance and pays tax on every penny of their paye income at varying rates (so that’s 45% on 850k of their earnings)

A nurse earning £40k per year pays 0 zero tax on the first £12.5k and 20% on the rest

The millionaire has paid £382,500 JUST at the 45% level

Just how much do you want ????

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36178790)

A few things are happening now:

[LIST][*]Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space

This needs to be looked at sensibly.
In my opinion, only violent offenders definitely need a custodial sentence.

Then arguments can be made for those that cause damage, repeat offenders etc.

But a lot of people can be dealt without being jailed.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36178805)

I have asked one of my former school friends who's very left wing how much tax does he think is fair, but I have been unable to get an answer. I get the impression that he thinks that anyone earning more than him should be taxed until they earn the same as he does.

He's always obsessed with how much tax other people are paying. He started on about me and my work and not knowing anything about what I'm doing and he was making a lot of assumptions.

I told him that I don't work at that place these days, I started my own business. If the situation had been reversed and he had said the to me, I would have said something along the lines of "I hope that works out for you", but his angry reply was "I hope you are paying the correct amount of tax". I explained that that was between me, my accountant and HMRC which seemed to anger him more. I suppose he doesn't personally know anyone who is rich, so someone earning more than him is his nearest target.

I do have a good memory though, I don't suppose he remembers boasting about taking his sleeping bag into work when he worked in nationalised industry, and I don't suppose he considered it as ripping off the tax payer either.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Escapee (Post 36178807)

Don't care get a good accountant worth every penny :cool:

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36178809)

Don't care get a good accountant worth every penny :cool:

I have done, and I'm glad I did.

I put money away every month last year for what I estimated I would owe HMRC. I was pleasantly surprised when I got nearly £2k appear in my bank account as a refund from HMRC.

Re: Your predictions under Labour

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36178805)

You really are not listening here. I am not talking about PAYE earnings which a lot of high net worth individuals do not receive in meaningful terms. I know about RSU's, I get them and I pay an effective tax rate of over 50% on them. Again, I am not talking about the people who receive taxed at source income.

Here's an article that covers this problem: https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/resea...ich-really-pay

Quote:

Where you get your money from (or at least how you package it) matters, because investment income and capital gains are taxed at lower rates than income from work

This survey was done in 2015-2016. The wealth inequality has increases markedly since then. So back to my point:

Quote:

Using anonymised data from personal tax returns, we show that in 2015-16 the average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent: the same as someone earning £100,000. But one in four of these paid 45 per cent – close to the top rate – whilst another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent—the same as someone earning £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together.

These low rates are not driven by complex tax avoidance schemes; they’re part of how our system is designed. Where you get your money from (or at least how you package it) matters, because investment income and capital gains are taxed at lower rates than income from work. What’s more, as the National Audit Office recently highlighted, the government offers tax reliefs claimed to incentivise activities like entrepreneurship, without actually checking whether they achieve these aims.

The fact that you return back to the PAYE use case means you are not looking at those who generate their wealth through other means, exactly as intended.

I will leave this point with you, again from the article above:

Quote:

We published the final Wealth Tax Commission report in December 2020, with the recommendation that, if the government chooses to raise taxes as part of its response to the COVID-19 crisis, it should implement a one-off wealth tax in preference to increasing taxes on work or spending. A one-off wealth tax on millionaire couples paid at one per cent a year for five years, we found, would raise £260 billion.

and lastly, Rishi Sunak paid effective tax rate of 23% on £2.2m income in 2023, roughly the same as an average nurse earning £37,000. You would find this perfectly acceptable I presume?

Labour should commission a root & branch reform of the tax system for high net worth individuals and large corporates to make the playing field a bit more level.