Re: Pronouns
 

Gender Ideology, the driving idea behind the whole Pronouns thing, and which only really started to appear to most of us around 2015, is just that.....an ideology.

Like any other ideology you can choose to participate in it, or not.

I choose not, because if I was to recognise it out of politeness or any other reason, would be to acquiesce to something I don't believe in, or can plainly see.

It would be like saying to a christian that I believe in god, just so I don't hurt his feelings.

Perfect example is Eddie Izzard. He is a man. Plainly a man. There is no way I would address him as She. No matter how hurt his feelings may be.

Re: Pronouns
 

Re: Pronouns
 

‘They’ is also perfectly acceptable third person singular for referring to an individual whose sex is unknown. It has been co-opted by those who wish to make a deliberately ambiguous statement about their ‘gender’ but that shouldn’t stop you using it as grammar has long permitted.

Re: Pronouns
 

Re: Pronouns
 

Already exist - ze/zir/hir/hirself

https://pronouns.org/ze-hir

Re: Pronouns
 

Not in my vocabulary.

Re: Pronouns
 

Nothing in that website suggests these terms “already exist.” And by already exist I’m looking for more than the pet project of a tiny subculture. There is no evidence of provenance, just a lot of manufactured grammar and a huge amount of waffle about how to deal with the equally manufactured social faux pas that inevitably arise in situations where its use is normalised.

The idea that it is somehow ignorant or hateful to use language that the entire human race has developed over millennia is absurd. If an individual looks in the mirror and chooses to see there something other than what their biology immutably says they are, then that’s their business. But their right to their self image doesn’t impinge on my right to behave in a perfectly normal human manner and assume someone is he or she - and let’s face it, out in the real world in the overwhelming majority of cases it is crystal clear which is which. The idea that it ought to be normal for people to provide their pronouns when introducing themselves is likewise absurd, and simply demonstrates just how pernicious the social media echo chamber has become.

Re: Pronouns
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/08/1.gif

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 ----------

Will the Oxford English Dictionary suffice?

https://public.oed.com/updates/new-w...st-march-2019/

Re: Pronouns
 

I’d prefer the full Oxford definition, which includes provenance (if it has any) rather than an entry in the 2019 new words list.

I’d also point out that the new words list frequently includes pop culture artefacts that come and go, and also that proponents of pronouns aren’t simply trying to get recognition for the language of their subculture but rather to affect significant change to a fundamental aspect of English grammar.

According to Oxford, “the dogs b0ll0cks” entered the lexicon in 2002 but nobody gets offended when someone else fails to use it as a superlative.

https://public.oed.com/updates/new-w...december-2002/

Re: Pronouns
 

Doesn't this just come down to acceptance, if Eddie Izzard wants to use the pronouns she/her then so what? individuals might not agree with it but there is zero cost to respecting someone's wishes.

people (not necessarily you) who refuse to go this type of request will usually be the first to complain when their own requests aren't listened to or their feelings are being imposed on.

I'm an atheist but I'm not going to run round refusing to acknowledge people's religious beliefs just because it's something i don't believe in.

Protestant? Good for you
Catholic? Good for you
Non binary? Great
Pastafarian? Touch me with your noodly appendage

Re: Pronouns
 

There's lots of stupid and silly words in the OED that I don't use. These will just be more of that.

Re: Pronouns
 

The issue isn’t with people believing what they want (though I’m sceptical that in many cases society is dealing effectively with emerging mental health issues by being so laissez-faire). The problem lies in this movement’s assertion that others are being ignorant or hateful if they do not fundamentally adjust their use of English grammar to accommodate them.

Obviously if someone I don’t know presents themselves to me with a female name, wearing a dress and makeup I’m going to continue to refer to them as “she”, even if it later transpires they’re biologically male. I’m not about to look for opportunities to be offensive. But the multitude of gender states invented by critical gender theory are preposterous and I have no intention of miring myself in the language of that subculture in order to avoid giving “offence,” any more than I would bother to learn the correct way to discuss trainspotting.

Re: Pronouns
 

If at the time of presentation you're asked to use a specific set of pronouns then what is the harm in using them as requested?

Why is the number of gender states so important to you that the quantity becomes preposterous ?

Re: Pronouns
 

Who refers to someone as she/ he when they're present anyway, that's ruder than mispronouning imo

Re: Pronouns
 

You wouldn't, people generally ask you to use pronouns when referencing them

Slack, one of our main collaboration tools has fields for pronouns, some people fill them in, some people don't (mine are not' filled in)