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Paul 28-09-2021 04:00
Re: Labour Conference
 
£15 an hour, on what planet ?

Its like the old nonsense of the average uk salery being £29,600.
No one in my family (except me) earns anywhere near that per year.

I always like the example given to me.
In a room of 10 people, the average monthly pay was £1,450.
So they were all paid quite well, right ?
Wrong ... 9 were paid just £500 a month, the other got £10,000.
Averages are pretty meaningless.

A minimum so high would would drive many out of business, as they could never afford it.
The rest would have to raise prices to the point where people could not afford them any more.

nomadking 28-09-2021 05:48
Re: Labour Conference
 
What they simply don't understand is that there can't be a one salary fitting all situations. What is suitable for a 16-year-old living with their parents, is not suitable for a married person with half a dozen kids. That gap can only be covered by the benefits system or as it was in the past, by the tax system(adjusting their tax code). No way around that.

TheDaddy 28-09-2021 07:14
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36094942)
£15 an hour, on what planet ?

Its like the old nonsense of the average uk salery being £29,600.
No one in my family (except me) earns anywhere near that per year.

I always like the example given to me.
In a room of 10 people, the average monthly pay was £1,450.
So they were all paid quite well, right ?
Wrong ... 9 were paid just £500 a month, the other got £10,000.
Averages are pretty meaningless.

A minimum so high would would drive many out of business, as they could never afford it.
The rest would have to raise prices to the point where people could not afford them any more.
Didn't the Tories say the same when the minimum wage was first brought in? Be interested what the minister for levelling up has to say about it

nomadking 28-09-2021 07:29
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36094946)
Didn't the Tories say the same when the minimum wage was first brought in? Be interested what the minister for levelling up has to say about it
If rasing the minimum wage has no impact, why not raise it to £1m/hour and see what happens?:rolleyes:

How's the High Street been doing in recent years?

TheDaddy 28-09-2021 07:55
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36094947)
If rasing the minimum wage has no impact, why not raise it to £1m/hour and see what happens?:rolleyes:

How's the High Street been doing in recent years?
Or you could wind your neck in and read what's there instead of jumping in with pathetic eye rolls, all I reminded people of was the tory opposition to a minimum wage and that we now have a minister for levelling up

1andrew1 28-09-2021 09:47
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36094945)
What they simply don't understand is that there can't be a one salary fitting all situations. What is suitable for a 16-year-old living with their parents, is not suitable for a married person with half a dozen kids. That gap can only be covered by the benefits system or as it was in the past, by the tax system(adjusting their tax code). No way around that.
I think you're getting a bit over-excited about something that's dead and buried. No large political party is advocating a £15ph minimum wage.

---------- Post added at 08:47 ---------- Previous post was at 08:39 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36094942)
£15 an hour, on what planet ?

Its like the old nonsense of the average uk salery being £29,600.
No one in my family (except me) earns anywhere near that per year.

I always like the example given to me.
In a room of 10 people, the average monthly pay was £1,450.
So they were all paid quite well, right ?
Wrong ... 9 were paid just £500 a month, the other got £10,000.
Averages are pretty meaningless.

A minimum so high would would drive many out of business, as they could never afford it.
The rest would have to raise prices to the point where people could not afford them any more.
A room of 10 people means that the average is liable to distortion by one person. But if it's a room of 20m people then it's far more accurate.

I'm sure a few stats bods will leap in with explanations of standard deviation, mean, median and mode if requested!

papa smurf 28-09-2021 09:51
Re: Labour Conference
 
Anti white labour conference

Too many white men putting their hands up to speak, Labour delegates told


https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/nati...elegates-told/

Damien 28-09-2021 10:09
Re: Labour Conference
 
They don't actually want £15 an hour, they want to get rid of Starmer and get a Corbyn ally back in and are creating a fuss to do so. Corbyn's own manifesto had the same pledge as Starmer of £10/h/

Sephiroth 28-09-2021 10:17
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36094946)
Didn't the Tories say the same when the minimum wage was first brought in? Be interested what the minister for levelling up has to say about it
You are historically correct. I was (and still am) a Conservative Party member at the time and disagreed with their objection. Their logic was sound in regard to the knock-on effect on profits/prices, but their notion of not setting the manpower exploitation bar higher was wrong.

That said, the minimum wage must not destroy jobs. It's a very delicate balance. My reading is that the benefits system tops people up in certain circumstances. People aren't exactly turning down minimum wage jobs as far as I can tell.

TheDaddy 28-09-2021 16:15
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36094966)
You are historically correct. I was (and still am) a Conservative Party member at the time and disagreed with their objection. Their logic was sound in regard to the knock-on effect on profits/prices, but their notion of not setting the manpower exploitation bar higher was wrong.

That said, the minimum wage must not destroy jobs. It's a very delicate balance. My reading is that the benefits system tops people up in certain circumstances. People aren't exactly turning down minimum wage jobs as far as I can tell.
Funnily enough I did have objections to a minimum wage, whilst for many it would set their pay higher for many more it became their wage for years, when the Eastern Europeans arrived all the jobs that paid a quid or two above the minimum disappeared to be replaced by a standard barest minimum wage, it's why I supported Ukip for years, campaigned for them and hated the way British workers were treated and its why brexit for me happening when it did was quite tragic, after all those years the Eastern Europeans weren't prepared to live six to a house, didn't want to do 70 hours a week for the barest minimum and things were changing, in my experience anyway!

Pierre 28-09-2021 23:05
Re: Labour Conference
 
Well a pro-Corbyn Union has disaffiliated from Labour.

The rift between the Corbyn Labour and the Starmer Labour has started and will probably culminate in Labour ripping itself into two, as predicted by many when Labour lost the last election.

Ironically both factions are equally unelectable.

1andrew1 28-09-2021 23:15
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36095073)
Well a pro-Corbyn Union has disaffiliated from Labour.

The rift between the Corbyn Labour and the Starmer Labour has started and will probably culminate in Labour ripping itself into two, as predicted by many when Labour lost the last election.

Ironically both factions are equally unelectable.
Corbyn's got rid of a Corbyn-supporting trade union, he puts his stamp more firmly on the Party. A result for him.

Why do you feel Starmer unelectable?

Damien 28-09-2021 23:26
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36095073)
The rift between the Corbyn Labour and the Starmer Labour has started and will probably culminate in Labour ripping itself into two, as predicted by many when Labour lost the last election..
It started long ago. This conference has been largely Starmer winning the internal battles:
  • Got the EHRC provisions passed
  • Made it harder for someone to get a nomination for the leadership without the support of the PLP
  • Made it harder for an existing MP to be deselected
  • Got his General Secretary passed despite Momentum saying they had the numbers to stop it
  • Momentum has lost more power on the NEC (Labour's ruling body)

Pierre 28-09-2021 23:40
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095075)
Why do you feel Starmer unelectable?
Anyone that can’t state the unarguable fact that only women have cervixes, on national Live TV.

Well if you can’t acknowledge a fact that the vast amount of the electorate would agree with for fear of upsetting a minuscule % of the population……………well how to square that circle with anything?

Chris 28-09-2021 23:58
Re: Labour Conference
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36095076)
It started long ago. This conference has been largely Starmer winning the internal battles:
  • Got the EHRC provisions passed
  • Made it harder for someone to get a nomination for the leadership without the support of the PLP
  • Made it harder for an existing MP to be deselected
  • Got his General Secretary passed despite Momentum saying they had the numbers to stop it
  • Momentum has lost more power on the NEC (Labour's ruling body)
So Momentum has lost (oho!) momentum then …

What a pathetic bunch though. Not a patch on the Militant Tendency. They really knew a thing or two about Trotskyist entryism, unlike this hopeless lot.


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