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Sephiroth 21-04-2021 19:03
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36077563)
Your assertion re football makes no sense in the context of your perfectly fine definition of culture.

<SNIP>
I'm beginning to think you've argued yourself into a corner and haven't quite worked out how to get out of it.
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.

You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.

Chris 21-04-2021 19:25
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36077565)
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.

You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.
All of those things are expressions of our culture.

Hugh 21-04-2021 19:37
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36077565)
No - at no time have I felt painted into a corner. It's so blindingly obvious that football is a widely shared interest and not specifically part of our culture. Nor is stamp collecting, photography etc.

You've linked the "values of our culture" to the rather narrow teamwork involved in competition. You could say that about Poker, Bridge, tennis doubles, rugby. Nothing at all to do with culture.
What is "British culture", in your view?

Sephiroth 21-04-2021 20:47
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36077567)
What is "British culture", in your view?

British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.

If there is disagreement, it'll come out here.

Hugh 21-04-2021 21:01
Re: British culture
 
That’s where it comes from - what are it’s attributes?

For instance, a lot of British architecture is neoclassical - neoclassical is based in Greek and Roman architecture.

You keep using the phrase "Judeo-Christian", but for a lot of Britain’s (and other countries) history, Christians persecuted and disdained Jews - seems strange to base a culture on something that, until recently, we didn’t admire...

As was commented
Quote:
Rabbi Jill Jacobs wrote on Twitter that “much of ‘Judeo-Christian’ tradition involves centuries of Christians trying to kill us,” adding, “if you mean ‘not Muslim’ say it.”
About the phrase "Judeo-Christian"...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...s-over/614812/

Quote:
The “Judeo-Christian tradition” was one of 20th-century America’s greatest political inventions. An ecumenical marketing meme for combatting godless communism, the catchphrase long did the work of animating American conservatives in the Cold War battle.

Jaymoss 21-04-2021 21:13
Re: British culture
 
Hold on what are we actually talking about here? Culture has 2 meanings 1 which are objects and 2 ideals . The objects have not changed much seeing as we still have some Roman sites and art and so on but ideals are changing constantly

Hadrian's Wall has no effect on social culture but Adrian deciding she wants to be called Adriana does

Sephiroth 21-04-2021 22:00
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36077574)
That’s where it comes from - what are it’s attributes?

For instance, a lot of British architecture is neoclassical - neoclassical is based in Greek and Roman architecture.

You keep using the phrase "Judeo-Christian", but for a lot of Britain’s (and other countries) history, Christians persecuted and disdained Jews - seems strange to base a culture on something that, until recently, we didn’t admire...

As was commented

About the phrase "Judeo-Christian"...

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...s-over/614812/
You're going way off beam. The evolved Judeo-Christian culture in the UK today centres on the sub-conscious understanding of the the behaviour associated with commandments 4 through 10. Nothing to do with the pogroms, prejudices etc.

1andrew1 21-04-2021 22:37
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36077567)
What is "British culture", in your view?
Warm beer, cricket on a village green and rain. Sometimes all at the same time. :D

Chris 21-04-2021 23:31
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36077571)

British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.

If there is disagreement, it'll come out here.
In what sense is it derived from such things? Are you suggesting these are things from which we deduce what our culture is, or are these things whose production generates our culture? Or both?

Hugh 22-04-2021 00:00
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36077582)
Warm beer, cricket on a village green and rain. Sometimes all at the same time. :D
Knowing your place, keeping others in their place, harking back to "the good old times", the Empire...

pip08456 22-04-2021 01:07
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36077586)
Knowing your place, keeping others in their place, harking back to "the good old times", the Empire...


and a variation on the theme.

Russ 22-04-2021 07:57
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36077577)
Culture has 2 meanings 1 which are objects and 2 ideals .
You're almost there.

Culture has different meanings to different people. Culture is subjective.

There may be things we enjoy today that have a basis in other cultures and countries but in my view that doesn't distract them from being what I consider to be our culture today.

Things we (as a nation) did centuries ago should not necessarily be used to define us today.

Sephiroth 22-04-2021 08:23
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth

British culture is derived from (non-exhaustive) books, artwork, statues, archaeology, law, taught conventions, taught codes (such as Judeo-Christianity), observed behaviour. It is no surprise to me that in the back of the British head, there would be little disagreement with what I've said.

If there is disagreement, it'll come out here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36077584)
In what sense is it derived from such things? Are you suggesting these are things from which we deduce what our culture is, or are these things whose production generates our culture? Or both?
The latter, Chris. People don't spend their time contemplating the former. That's why I referred to the "back of the British head"; it's in the subconscious, subliminal.

We then look at other cultures, whose behaviours, pronouncements etc differ from ours, and reach a conclusion as to whether or not our culture is under threat.

mrmistoffelees 22-04-2021 08:34
Re: British culture
 
Some people are very afraid of change, unfortunately for them it's inevitable.

Russ 22-04-2021 08:41
Re: British culture
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36077598)
Some people are very afraid of change, unfortunately for them it's inevitable.
I don’t think it’s fear. I certainly don’t like change. I know in some ways it’s inevitable and I don’t expect things to stop moving on my say-so. But that doesn’t mean I have to like it.


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