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-   -   Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704018)

Mr K 27-11-2016 23:23
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu (Post 35872193)
Richard, you beat me to it.
http://news.sky.com/story/margaret-t...utcry-10671543

I think that 'evil'woman, would HAVE done it if she could. Sadly, it is going on today. We have private companies trying to take over the NHS.

And the Tories, no matter what they say, are ripping the Health Service to bits.

You only have to look at recents news items.

Patients waiting in corridors with Ambulances crews. Patients having to travel mlies to get beds.

And the Tories say. 'The NHS is safe in our hands' and what is that berk Corbyn doing NOTHING
Blame the electorate Arthur, this is what they voted for last year. Low taxes for the rich and the NHS dismantled; surely they can't have expected anything less.

No, I don't understand it either.

Paul 27-11-2016 23:46
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
You seem to assume that just because people vote for a particular party, they automatially support everything they do.

Surprisingly, thats not actually true.

A large number will always vote for the same party no matter what, the rest are just picking the lesser of two evils.

pip08456 27-11-2016 23:58
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35872200)
You seem to assume that just because people vote for a particular party, they automatially support everything they do.

Surprisingly, thats not actually true.

A large number will always vote for the same party no matter what, the rest are just picking the lesser of two evils.
And then you have the majority who don't bother because they know they're going to get screwed anyway.

I will add no-one has provided any evidence of a "Secret Plan" which this thread purports to be about.

All we've had is a proposal from a think tank.

ianch99 28-11-2016 10:16
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35872200)
You seem to assume that just because people vote for a particular party, they automatially support everything they do.

Surprisingly, thats not actually true.

A large number will always vote for the same party no matter what, the rest are just picking the lesser of two evils.
but by voting for a party, they do support the major policy decisions by implication. They should abstain if the opposition is not credible.

UK governments put a lot of store on "having a mandate" to implement their manifesto so if you don't support a party's strategic policies, don't vote for it.

denphone 28-11-2016 11:29
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872225)
but by voting for a party, they do support the major policy decisions by implication. They should abstain if the opposition is not credible.

UK governments put a lot of store on "having a mandate" to implement their manifesto so if you don't support a party's strategic policies, don't vote for it.
How is that as there are many l know who might have voted for certain parties but l can assure you if they are unhappy with certain policies they ain't slow to voice their unhappy opinions about it but as Paul; stated for many its picking the best of two evils as we ain't exactly loaded with the great leaders of old sadly IMO..

ianch99 28-11-2016 12:16
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35872233)
How is that as there are many l know who might have voted for certain parties but l can assure you if they are unhappy with certain policies they ain't slow to voice their unhappy opinions about it but as Paul; stated for many its picking the best of two evils as we ain't exactly loaded with the great leaders of old sadly IMO..
You can't vote for a party and then be unhappy over major policy decisions that were in their manifesto.

denphone 28-11-2016 12:45
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872238)
You can't vote for a party and then be unhappy over major policy decisions that were in their manifesto.
Sorry but in real life things ain't as black and white as that sometimes.

Paul 28-11-2016 13:35
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872225)
but by voting for a party, they do support the major policy decisions by implication. They should abstain if the opposition is not credible.

UK governments put a lot of store on "having a mandate" to implement their manifesto so if you don't support a party's strategic policies, don't vote for it.
I'm sure this works fine in la la land, but here in the real world we have to vote for someone to run the country.
Voting for X or Y does not in any way mean you support all of their policies, it means you think they will do a better job than the rest.

Abstaining is completly pointless, you are simply supporting whoever wins.

ianch99 28-11-2016 13:46
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35872251)
I'm sure this works fine in la la land, but here in the real world we have to vote for someone to run the country.
Voting for X or Y does not in any way mean you support all of their policies, it means you think they will do a better job than the rest.

Abstaining is completly pointless, you are simply supporting whoever wins.
Try reading the post first before replying? I said:

Quote:
You can't vote for a party and then be unhappy over major policy decisions that were in their manifesto.
If you disagree with this then it is you who is not living in the real world

Paul 28-11-2016 13:50
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872254)
Try reading the post first before replying? I said:
If you disagree with this then it is you who is not living in the real world
I did read it thanks.

Clearly you need glasses ;

Quote:
Voting for X or Y does not in any way mean you support all of their policies

ianch99 28-11-2016 15:06
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35872256)
I did read it thanks.

Clearly you need glasses ;
Why so aggressive?

I said:

Quote:
by voting for a party, they do support the major policy decisions by implication
and:

Quote:
if you don't support a party's strategic policies, don't vote for it.
you then replied:

Quote:
Voting for X or Y does not in any way mean you support all of their policies
I never said this which is why I suggested you re-read my post.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_(politics)

Quote:
The concept of a government having a legitimate mandate to govern via the fair winning of a democratic election is a central idea of representative democracy. New governments who attempt to introduce policies that they did not make public during an election campaign are said not to have a legitimate mandate to implement such policies.

Elections, especially ones with a large margin of victory, are often said to give the newly elected government or elected official an implicit mandate to put into effect certain policies.[2] When a government seeks re-election they may introduce new policies as part of the campaign and are hoping for approval from the voters, and say they are seeking a "new mandate".
As I said before, I am not talking about all policies. I am talking about the strategic policies a party puts in its manifesto.

If you don't like them, don't vote for the party. If you do vote for the party, don't complain when they implement these policies.

pip08456 28-11-2016 17:28
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
[/COLOR]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872275)
As I said before, I am not talking about all policies. I am talking about the strategic policies a party puts in its manifesto.

If you don't like them, don't vote for the party. If you do vote for the party, don't complain when they implement these policies.
How many times over the years have parties had stragic policies in their manefestos which have never been implemented once in power?

Osem 28-11-2016 17:37
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Manifestos don't contain huge detail and tend to set out overall objectives rather than the detailed means by which those things will actually be put into practice. It's perfectly possible and I'd say quite common, to be in full agreement with a principle outlined in a manifesto but not the subsequent implementation of it after, say, the required legislation has been through the parliamentary process and any legal challenges which may also result.

ianch99 28-11-2016 17:39
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35872309)
[/COLOR]

How many times over the years have parties had stragic policies in their manefestos which have never been implemented once in power?
If that does/did happen then there is no problem is there? The Government rarely declares it has received a mandate not to do something :)

pip08456 28-11-2016 20:26
Re: Secret Thatcher plans to scrap the welfare state now released.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35872316)
If that does/did happen then there is no problem is there? The Government rarely declares it has received a mandate not to do something :)
Never been a problem, I haven't voted in any election since the 70's


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