Cable Forum - Unstoppable migration?

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- - Unstoppable migration? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33698108)

rhyds

05-09-2014 12:41

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35726657)

Because of the Schengen Area agreement (no border controls in the majority of EU countries).

Exactly. Getting from the toe of Italy to Calais is legally no more difficult than Land's End to John O'Groats.

This idea does of course depend on rigorous "outer border" security

jonbxx

05-09-2014 12:51

Re: Unstoppable migration?

This is a great discussion! It has prompted me to do some more reading. This UNHCR report is interesting - the UK is the 5th largest recipient of asylum seekers after USA, Germany, France and Sweden. We don't even feature in the top 10 per capita recipients of asylum seekers! It seems like we take less than 10% of the total European asylum seekers.

I knew suspected the press and certain political parties were 'bigging' up the figures but I didn't realise by how much

rhyds

05-09-2014 12:54

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Remember that:

Immigrants

Illegal Immigrants

and Asylum Seekers don't mean the same thing.

Pierre

05-09-2014 13:11

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhyds (Post 35726665)

Remember that:

Immigrants

Illegal Immigrants

and Asylum Seekers don't mean the same thing.

I would divide that further.

EU immigrants

non-EU immigrants

illegal immigrants

Asylum seekers

Hugh	05-09-2014 13:18

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Here are some recent immigration statistics for EU countries... http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...12_YB14_II.png

With an overview - http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/sta...ion_statistics

Quote:

In absolute terms, the largest numbers of non-nationals living in the EU on 1 January 2013 were found in Germany (7.7 million persons), Spain (5.1 million), the United Kingdom (4.9 million), Italy (4.4 million) and France (4.1 million). Non-nationals in these five EU Member States collectively represented 77 % of the total number of non-nationals living in the EU-27, while the same five Member States had a 63 % share of the EU’s population. In relative terms, the EU-27 Member State with the highest share of non-nationals was Luxembourg, as they accounted for 44 % of the total population. A high proportion of non-nationals (10 % or more of the resident population) was also observed in Cyprus, Latvia, Estonia, Ireland, Austria, Belgium and Spain.

In most EU Member States, the majority of non-nationals are citizens of non-member countries (see Table 4). The opposite is true only for Luxembourg, Slovakia, Ireland, Cyprus, Belgium, Malta, Hungary and the Netherlands. In the case of Latvia and Estonia, the proportion of citizens from non-member countries is particularly large due to the high number of recognised non-citizens (mainly former Soviet Union citizens, who are permanently resident in these countries but have not acquired any other citizenship). Table 5 presents a summary of the five main citizenships and countries of birth for the EU-27 and EFTA Member States for which detailed data are available.

Osem	05-09-2014 14:38

Re: Unstoppable migration?

So far as I am concerned anyone who comes here with a made up story of being persecuted or whatever and claims asylum (when in fact they're just economic migrants looking for a better life) is an illegal immigrant. The fact that the 'system' often isn't sufficiently robust to easily detect them, prove their illegality and remove them doesn't alter that.

Anyone who's watched any of the many documentaries shown on immigration will know that whilst many asylum seekers genuinely need and deserve our help, a good proportion are simply cynically abusing the system knowing that by so doing they can stay here one way or the other virtually indefinitely. That's one reason so many of them either hide or destroy their ID - without it it's extremely difficult to remove them back to their country of origin.

Not all asylum seekers are genuine and if they're not, they're by definition illegal.

jonbxx

05-09-2014 20:21

Re: Unstoppable migration?

But what is a 'good proportion'? Does anyone know for sure how many people are abusing the system?

Osem	31-12-2014 11:35

Re: Unstoppable migration?

The growing flow of migrants in small boats during the summer months is one thing but this is on quite another scale.

Quote:

A cargo ship said to be carrying 700 clandestine migrants which was taken under Italian control at sea has docked in the Italian port of Gallipoli.

The Blue Sky M had apparently been abandoned by its crew and at one point seemed to be heading directly towards the Italian coast on autopilot.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30639794

It's all too easy for the traffickers isn't it? At what point can/do the authorities decide enough's enough? Until that happens the numbers will surely and understandably continue to grow.

Sirius

31-12-2014 11:53

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35749634)

The growing flow of migrants in small boats during the summer months is one thing but this is on quite another scale.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30639794

It's all too easy for the traffickers isn't it? At what point can/do the authorities decide enough's enough? Until that happens the numbers will surely and understandably continue to grow.

And you can bet they will heading straight for the UK for all those free benefits.

Osem	31-12-2014 11:58

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35726768)

But what is a 'good proportion'? Does anyone know for sure how many people are abusing the system?

Abusing what system? IIRC the general rule is that anyone claiming asylum should do so in the first safe country they arrive in and the UK doesn't usually remove anyone who hasn't done so back to that country so if they get here they are dealt with here. Whilst I can fully appreciate why they don't do so, anyone who doesn't do that is technically abusing the system IMHO. The numbers of migrants who manage to gain entry into the UK illegally by one means or another (whether on lorries from Calais or by means of false ID) is by definition unknown. What isn't unknown is that there are vast numbers of people around the globe who wish to migrate into Europe and take their chances here. The growing numbers being picked up off the coast of Italy and Greece testify to that.

Osem	02-01-2015 10:50

Re: Unstoppable migration?

And here's another.

Quote:

Italian authorities say they have taken control of a merchant ship carrying at least 400 migrants that was abandoned by its crew off the coast of Italy.

The Italian coast guard said it was now heading to the port of Crotone after a rescue team managed to board the ship.

The Ezadeen, sailing under the flag of Sierra Leone, lost power in rough seas overnight off the south-east of Italy.

Almost 1,000 migrants were rescued from another ship found abandoned without any crew earlier in the week.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30653742

Seems like the back door to Europe is well and truly open. It's ironic that whilst we're being extraordinarily careful about admitting some people into Europe, just about anyone can get on a boat and be towed here.

Sirius

02-01-2015 10:56

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35749860)

And here's another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30653742

Seems like the back door to Europe is well and truly open. It's ironic that whilst we're being extraordinarily careful about admitting some people into Europe, just about anyone can get on a boat and be towed here.

And another load on there way here you can bet, they will do it via open borders all the way to Dover. You have just got to love the EU's open border policy :mad:

Stop It

02-01-2015 11:42

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35749860)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 35749861)

And another load on there way here you can bet, they will do it via open borders all the way to Dover. You have just got to love the EU's open border policy :mad:

You two are truly amazing human beings.

Not a thought about the human cost to these people, the enormous risks they have took just to get to these boats without knowing if they'll even get off alive, what they are escaping from and what they may have suffered prior.

No, just selfish rants about how people are economic migrants who must be abusing the system and do not deserve anything other than to be sent home.

Most of these people came from Syria, a country where nearly 75 thousand people died last year. Trying to de-humanise them or score political points wont make a damned difference. You want the flow of migrants to stop? Closing our borders and shouting la-la-la wont help.

Taf	02-01-2015 14:02

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Closing our borders would work, but there is no political will to do so at the moment.

The EU is bound to demand that we take our "fair share" of these migrants, despite the rules of asylum.

And meanwhile the traffickers will continue to do as they always have with not a thought to the welfare of their passengers.

Paul	02-01-2015 14:25

Re: Unstoppable migration?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop It (Post 35749872)

You want the flow of migrants to stop? Closing our borders and shouting la-la-la wont help.

I'm pretty sure it will help, unless you know some secret way they could all still use to get in.

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