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-   -   Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33680488)

Hugh 24-08-2011 19:33
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35291956)
What's being covered up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35291957)
Plenty in my mind and people will not rest till we get the full truth and nothing but the truth in this establishment cover up.
Didn't really answer the question, did you?

denphone 24-08-2011 19:38
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35291966)
Didn't really answer the question, did you?
These are the questions that need to be answered.



1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?

2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?

3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?

4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?

5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?

6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?

7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police's Hillsborough documents?

8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation while he had been placed on "non-operational duties"?

Hugh 24-08-2011 19:40
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
2. Is a bit of a no-brainer question, isn't it? Hindsight is always 20/20.

denphone 24-08-2011 19:43
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35291972)
2. Is a bit of a no-brainer question, isn't it? Hindsight is always 20/20.
Yes 2 is a bit of a no-brainer but there are stll many questions that need to be answered and lets hope we get these answers soon .

Peter_ 24-08-2011 19:44
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
I expect more would have been alive if the police had allowed the ambulances access to the ground rather than holding them back even though they know people were dying, I wonder if that officer that gave that order feels he has a clear conscience.

Damien 24-08-2011 20:04
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35291975)
I expect more would have been alive if the police had allowed the ambulances access to the ground rather than holding them back even though they know people were dying, I wonder if that officer that gave that order feels he has a clear conscience.
I doubt they did it out of spite. Clear thinking is not that easy in the mist of a crisis..

---------- Post added at 19:04 ---------- Previous post was at 18:53 ----------

Good article here that cuts though some of the posturing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/d...ependent-panel

Quote:
The Cabinet Office has emphasised that it does intend to release all the papers it holds on Hillsborough. The question being wrestled over is about how they are released. The Cabinet Office says it wants to provide them to the independent panel set up last year specifically to read, publish a report, then release to the families and public, all the Hillsborough documents. The BBC, though, has a freedom of information request which the information commissioner has said should be granted, in the public interest, and therefore the papers should simply be published immediately, bypassing the panel....

...
This disclosure is a huge breakthrough in the families' long campaign for the unvarnished truth, prompted by two Merseyside MPs and the then ministers Andy Burnham and Maria Eagle. But the Hillsborough Family Support Group, which represents the majority of the bereaved families, came quickly to believe, along with Burnham, Eagle and the public bodies involved, that some kind of process was required to make sense of the outpouring of documents. That is why the independent panel was set up, precisely to reach a clearer understanding of the documents' significance, and, critically, to share them with the families first, before releasing them to the wider public, which it has a duty to do.

Pierre 24-08-2011 20:39
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35291970)
These are the questions that need to be answered.



1 What, in detail, happened after 3:15pm on the day of the disaster?

2 Could more people have been saved if the response to the disaster had been better co-ordinated?

3 Who removed two CCTV video tapes from the locked control room at Hillsborough on the night of the disaster?

4 Why was nobody identified to have removed them, and what investigation was mounted?

5 Which South Yorkshire police officers worked in the unit that vetted police statements before they went to Taylor and the inquest?

6 Who gave the orders for them to do so and what was the stated intention of those orders?

7 Are the documents lodged by order of the government in the House of Lords library a complete archive of South Yorkshire police's Hillsborough documents?

8 What was Det Supt Stanley Beechey, a former head of the West Midlands serious crime squad, doing on the Hillsborough investigation while he had been placed on "non-operational duties"?
How does answering those questions, some of which are irrelevant (2,3,7,8), give the families of the deceased ......justice?

The police have already been found guilty in regards to the tragedy.

The facts are already known.

1. Fearing crowd trouble outside the ground the police opened the large exit gates.

2. Crowd surge through the main central tunnel caused the crush.

3. Lack of communication and failure of the police to assess the situation inside the ground most likely resulted in more preventable deaths.

I don't know what conspiracy you're looking for, but I don't think there's one there.

devilincarnate 24-08-2011 20:42
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35292002)

I don't know what conspiracy you're looking for, but I don't think there's one there.
If there is no conspiracy? Why do they not release the documents then:confused:

Peter_ 24-08-2011 20:44
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35291977)
I doubt they did it out of spite. Clear thinking is not that easy in the mist of a crisis..
I do not think it was done out of spite, rather blinkered stupidity.

denphone 24-08-2011 20:44
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35292002)
How does answering those questions, some of which are irrelevant (2,3,7,8), give the families of the deceased ......justice?

The police have already been found guilty in regards to the tragedy.

The facts are already known.

1. Fearing crowd trouble outside the ground the police opened the large exit gates.

2. Crowd surge through the main central tunnel caused the crush.

3. Lack of communication and failure of the police to assess the situation inside the ground most likely resulted in more preventable deaths.

I don't know what conspiracy you're looking for, but I don't think there's one there.

Well l am sorry Pierre but l have to disagree with you on this one.

devilincarnate 24-08-2011 20:56
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Can I just ask one very simple question here?

If it was one of you family members/ Children or friends that lost their lives on that fateful day, And you were going through this for the last 20+ years.

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED

EVERYTHING

Sorry if this has offended anyone but just trying to get my point across!!!

Justice for the 96

Pierre 24-08-2011 21:02
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35292019)
Can I just ask one very simple question here?

If it was one of you family members/ Children or friends that lost their lives on that fateful day, And you were going through this for the last 20+ years.

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED

EVERYTHING

Sorry if this has offended anyone but just trying to get my point across!!!

Justice for the 96
Point taken,

I'm just confused over the whole "Justice for the 96" stance.

What "justice" are you looking for?

Paul 24-08-2011 21:09
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masque (Post 35292007)
I do not think it was done out of spite, rather blinkered stupidity.
How do you determine it was stupidity ? No doubt decisions were made based on whatever information was at hand at the time. If you were not there, with that information, what gives you the right to call people stupid ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35292008)
Well l am sorry Pierre but l have to disagree with you on this one.
So what is your theory then ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by devilincarnate (Post 35292019)
If it was one of you family members/ Children or friends that lost their lives on that fateful day, And you were going through this for the last 20+ years.

WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO KNOW THAT HAS NOT BEEN RELEASED

EVERYTHING

Sorry if this has offended anyone but just trying to get my point across!!!

Justice for the 96
What do you expect to find out ? What are you/they going to do with this mystical information if it even exists.

I can tell you what id be doing, getting on with my life, not spending 20+ years thinking about something I cannot change.

denphone 24-08-2011 21:26
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35292024)
How do you determine it was stupidity ? No doubt decisions were made based on whatever information was at hand at the time. If you were not there, with that information, what gives you the right to call people stupid ?


So what is your theory then ?


What do you expect to find out ? What are you/they going to do with this mystical information if it even exists.

I can tell you what id be doing, getting on with my life, not spending 20+ years thinking about something I cannot change.
Well l think some very poor decisions were made at the time by the Police which resulted in the terrible tragedy which then engulfed many at Hillsborough and if you read my post earlier you will see some of the questions that need answering.

Hugh 24-08-2011 22:16
Re: Government to appeal release of Hillsborough Files
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35292036)
Well l think some very poor decisions were made at the time by the Police which resulted in the terrible tragedy which then engulfed many at Hillsborough and if you read my post earlier you will see some of the questions that need answering.
The poor decisions made by the Police at the time were highlighted by the Interim Report by Lord Taylor, especially Chapter 18 - have you read it?


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