Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

There needs to be more than one supposition to be drawn on for it to qualify as a true syllogism - so in this context I believe I can. ;)

---------- Post added at 17:28 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

No, read it again - afford due consideration to the context of the statement to which I was replying.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

[QUOTE=Mr Angry;35224621

Humour bypass?

Actually it took 3 reads to realise what i had wrote :D

QUOTE]


Yes ,i suspect that Roy Mayall is saying that they can't refuse to deliver junk mail is from the pespective of a persecuted postman/woman ,i also believe that there is a voluntary aspect to this type of mail delivery hence the comment on not being able to claim overtime if they take longer doing their normal round because they also have a bag of junk mail to deliver ,for which they are being paid extra

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

Never mind that, it took me five attempts to type my reply!!:D

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

You do seem to be suggesting that they have invoked their right to refuse to deliver the leaflets by dumping them ,which obviously they have not .What they have done is looked at the leaflets in the sorting office decided they either want to "pretend"(dump) that they have delivered them and claim the 1.67p per item ,or they have looked at the leaflets and decided to have their own little protest against the BNP by dumping them in the BNP candidates back garden .If they were going to invoke their right to not deliver offensive material then the leaflets would have remained in the sorting office untill another postie took them out .They cannot decide that the leaflets are offensive after they have agreed to take them out with full knowledge of what they are

---------- Post added at 17:40 ---------- Previous post was at 17:39 ----------

lol :d

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

I know it was back in the 1970s when I was a postman that we did not get paid extra for delivering that type of mail, it had to be inserted with your normal delivery over a week.

At that time nearly every household had the football coupons belivered by mail, and some houses had both Littlewoods and Vernons, and each house had it's own address on the envelope. What we used to do was deliver the coupons the house if it had mail for that day, and similar for the next few days in the hope that you would clear the backlog, if however you still had some left you were allowed to deliver the remaining by working overtime, but you were only allowed 3 hours to do it in.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

Being an ex postie that really is shocking if the postie does indeed do that. My pet HATE though was people complaining that i never rang their doorbell or knocked their door when i did SEVERAL times only for them to either not hear it or be pottering about in their back garden. I then would need to carry the item about with me for the rest of the delivery so why any postie would want to put the "red card" through without ringing the doorbell is beyond me. I never knew of ANY posties that actually done this though.

If however the postie was putting the card through without actually bringing the item then that is inexcusable. While not defending that type of action unless you have worked for Royal Mail you cannot understand just how much pressure these guys are under to complete their deliverys. Some get 4 hours to make a delivery that can take at the minimum of 5 hours and work the extra hour for nothing just to make sure that they complete and dont suffer the bullying and harrasment that so often occurs in the job.

When i was last there (2009) we did get paid up to 3p for election material and could refuse to deliver if we didnt want to however someone else would then need to deliver the items.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

I agree as well.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

Its true or at least was true, we have a new agreement with regards to unaddressed mail which may mean RM managers may try to slip the election material in with our regular unaddressed mail.
We used to get paid 1.6p per regular unaddressed item and 2.3p for larger unadressed mail with a maximum of 3 pieces per household and an average of 550 - 600 calls per route.
Last year during the last big dispute we agreed to instead be paid £20 per week and allow up to 5 pieces per household. According to RM management this would balance out as some weeks we would get no households and still be paid the £20 which would offset the pay lost on the weeks when we would have 5. This didn't play out how they said and last year I was down about £60 compared to the older pay system and I only kept check for about 6 months.
We used to get paid about 4.5p per election item which could add up quickly.
On one week last year I earned an extra £100, the route had 800+ calls and three different sets of election material. Under the new system in the same situation I would end up with £20 because it will be counted as regular household unaddressed mail. Though there is likely to be another dispute over this as it wasn't specified in the agreement yet rumours suggest that RM plan to enforce it.

I can see a lot of Posties refusing to deliver them if thats the case and invoking the clause. The clause only applies to households or unaddressed mail AFAIK. But it would have to be declared in the office and someone else would be assigned to deliver them. This is deffinatley gross misconduct if any payment was accepted for the dumped items.

As per my post above we can refuse to deliver it and could even when this article was written though we needed a good reason. The pay in that article was accurate but only for standard households, not election material.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

Again Marty, I was not saying they were right to have "dumped" the leaflets (if indeed they were "dumped").

I was merely stating that by "dumping" the leaflets they had (and were obviously) exercising their right not to deliver them and were sending a very clear message (whether rightly or wrongly in its delivery (pun alert)) to that effect.

Potential syllogism?

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

I think "exercising their right" is a bit too generous on your behalf ,however i would agree that they/him/her are making a protest in the way they chose to not deliver them

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

But as ZrByte acknowledges in his post above it is a right, a negotiated right. How they chose to exercise that right, particularly if they performed actions which are unwarranted, is the issue at hand.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

As a ex-postie I have to say that if the pamphlets were dumped the posties will get sacked as if they leave the office they must be delivered. This is still the case as well.
If there is any objection it needs to made in the letter delivery office (LDO) before been taken out.

The posties still to get paid extra for the leaflets that they deliver (when i was doing it it was about 2-3p per one delivered, So they do mount up to boosting the wage.

Also with all the changes that have now gone on in the RM since i left have driven a lot of posties that i know to get fed up?

I forgot that the election material stuff you did not get paid for.

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

Agreed .
My personal take on this should it be proven of course ,is that it was a protest against the BNP as the postie would have known what the leaflets where .
One question ,the offence by a postman of withholding mail ,does that apply in this case as it is unaddressed mail or junk mail ? if it does then that is quite a serious offence ,i believe there are cases where postmen have been jailed

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

At the end of the day, if they are being paid to deliver it they should do just that. They do not have to read it, just stick it through the door.

When i was a paper boy years ago, I had no choice of what leaflets I had to shove through hundereds of letterboxes, I was glad of the extra couple of quid i would get for doing so.

You could argue that no one likes getting bills, so therefore not deliver them also, or in my case, I don't like pizza all that much, so you can forget me delivering any Dominos menus.

No?

Re: BNP Accuses Royal Mail Of Dumping Leaflets
 

No.