Cable Forum - Are Police to Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup ?

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arcamalpha2004

02-05-2010 08:57

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S (Post 35012181)

I don't think the Police can revoke licenses :confused: They can make recomendations to the licensing board but can't act as jury, judge and executioner.

So why threaten it because people want to wear football shirts?

Yep, but I am also very, very lazy. If you are going to post accusations like this at least provide a source so I don't have to expend any more energy than strictly necessary.

Sorry Derek, I cannot abide lazy people.

I'd disagree, part of their responsibilites as a landlord is to do everything in their powers to reduce crime. If teams of shoplifters use pubs to openly sell stolen goods or drugs are sold and consumed and the licencee condones it or turns a blind eye it's nothing to do with licensing laws but the Police wouldn't be happy about it.

And ofcourse said landlord would call the police and be promised a visit within the next 7 days if he is lucky.

I'll save you the bother, I seriously doubt that information would be recorded. If you want to ask about spikes in violence during football matches and their aftermath and by people under the influence of alcohol then feel free.

Well we have information for everything else do we not?

---------- Post added at 09:57 ---------- Previous post was at 09:56 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob M (Post 35012182)

Now now Derek, you're spoiling a good argument by trying to introduce facts into it again.

Who is arguing? :erm:
No football shirt on here !

Hugh	02-05-2010 09:00

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

I don't think the Police can revoke licenses :confused: They can make recomendations to the licensing board but can't act as jury, judge and executioner.

Quote:

So why threaten it because people want to wear football shirts?

They didn't - the Stunna (in your OP) reported the words "advice", "suggest", "guidance", and "not obliged", which is seems to me a world away from "revoke licences"........

arcamalpha2004

02-05-2010 10:01

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 35012208)

They didn't - the Stunna (in your OP) reported the words "advice", "suggest", "guidance", and "not obliged", which is seems to me a world away from "revoke licences"........

"Police will not hesitate to use powers under the Licensing Act should we find you are not actively supporting the prevention of crime."

What does that tell you?
So a licence would be revoked if a pub did not follow the dress code " advice " from the police.

Maggy

02-05-2010 10:09

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

I have become invisible again.Perhaps a neon flashing nose and a police cone hat will get people to listen.:D

IT'S NOT A TRUE STORY.IT IS A LIE.

Therefore no need to argue about something that's not going to happen...:rolleyes:

Jon T

02-05-2010 10:10

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Both the premise license licence(which is granted to the pub), and the personal license(granted to the landlord), are awarded by the local authority, not the police. The police form part of the licensing panel and therefore can influence if a licence is granted or not, the same panel would also be responsible for any revocation at a licensing hearing.

If the terms of a license, either premise or personal are not being adhered to, the police have powers to close the establishment until they are satisfied that the terms of either license or being complied with.

BTW, the licensee ie Landlord definitely is responsible for ensuring the lawful conduct and general good order of people in any area covered by either license.

Derek

02-05-2010 10:11

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 35012256)

What does that tell you?
So a licence would be revoked if a pub did not follow the dress code " advice " from the police.

I would seriouly doubt pubs allowing someone in an England top would be reason enough for a licence to be revoked.

If the story is true, it shows the Police are trying to reduce violence during the world cup rather than just mopping up the blood and teeth afterwards.

Maggy

02-05-2010 10:27

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek S (Post 35012271)

It's not true.:dozey:

Raistlin

02-05-2010 10:28

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

I think there's a chance this story might not be true you know :D

punky

02-05-2010 11:09

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcamalpha2004 (Post 35012151)

Punky, it is not the job of a landlord to " control their punters " as you put it.

Yes it is.

Licensing Act 2003, section 161:

Quote:

161 Closure of identified premises

Closure orders for identified premises

(1) A senior police officer may make a closure order in relation to any relevant premises if he reasonably believes thatâ€”

(a)there is, or is likely imminently to be, disorder on, or in the vicinity of and related to, the premises and their closure is necessary in the interests of public safety, or

(b)a public nuisance is being caused by noise coming from the premises and the closure of the premises is necessary to prevent that nuisance.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003...pt8-pb2-l1g161

And the fact that you are still being deliberately obtuse when ypu have been proven wrong just shows your character really.

Maggy

02-05-2010 11:23

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob M (Post 35012287)

I think there's a chance this story might not be true you know :D

Don't think anyone is listening..I think they have their hands over their ears going lalalala...........;)

speedfreak

02-05-2010 11:42

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

so is this story true or not :confused:

:D

TheDon

02-05-2010 12:12

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky (Post 35012315)

Yes it is.

Licensing Act 2003, section 161:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003...pt8-pb2-l1g161

And the fact that you are still being deliberately obtuse when ypu have been proven wrong just shows your character really.

How exactly does legislation allowing the police to close a licensed premises show it's the landlord's job to control their punters?
Obviously the landlord has some responsibility, but that doesn't stretch any further than making sure there's no obvious crimes being committed on their premises. Their responsibilities are purely reactive.

Also that's one of the most abused pieces of legislation going. I've seen countless officers shut down pubs for next to no reason (a fight starting outside completely unrelated to the pub for instance) citing their powers under the licensing act when the licensing act requires it to come from an Inspector or above. I've even challenged it happening citing the exact part of the act saying they didn't have the authority to and got told to go away or be arrested.

So do I trust the police to only shut down pubs when there is an actual real and immediate threat to the public, and not just because the pub has ignored it's guidance? No chance.

Derek

02-05-2010 12:17

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 35012350)

Their responsibilities are purely reactive.

I'd disagree, they can't just open their doors, get everyone tanked up and turn them loose. Licensees have to expect issues if their pubs and clubs are at the centre of trouble every weekend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 35012350)

Also that's one of the most abused pieces of legislation going. I've seen countless officers shut down pubs for next to no reason citing their powers under the licensing act when the licensing act requires it to come from an Inspector or above.

How do you know the decision to close the pub wasn't taken or at least OK'd by an Inspector or above and transmitted via radio to the cops on the ground.

punky

02-05-2010 12:24

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 35012350)

How exactly does legislation allowing the police to close a licensed premises show it's the landlord's job to control their punters?

OK I will make this as clear as I can.

Pub doesn't control its punters -> causes disorder -> pub gets closed down -> landlord loses his job.

Understand?

Quote:

I've seen countless officers shut down pubs for next to no reason (a fight starting outside completely unrelated to the pub for instance)

Yes, i'm sure you're in a position to know exactly what the entire circumstances that mean a pub getting shut down. Let me guess - the ex-landlord told you?

Quote:

when the licensing act requires it to come from an Inspector or above.

Yes, i'm sure you're in a position to know that a pub was closed to down by a PC and not an Inspector.

arcamalpha2004

02-05-2010 13:39

re: Police to Not Ban the wearing of England Shirts in Pubs During the World cup

Quote:

Originally Posted by punky (Post 35012360)

OK I will make this as clear as I can.

Pub doesn't control its punters -> causes disorder -> pub gets closed down -> landlord loses his job.

Understand?

Yes, i'm sure you're in a position to know exactly what the entire circumstances that mean a pub getting shut down. Let me guess - the ex-landlord told you?

Yes, i'm sure you're in a position to know that a pub was closed to down by a PC and not an Inspector.

Punky, the only duty a landlord has is not to serve someone clearly over the limit, do you get that?
Closing a pub down because a landlord is not actively supporting the prevention of crime is bullocks.
Any prevention of crime, if wearing a shirt is a crime, is down to the police, nobody else.
That is what we pay their wages and pensions for and they retire at 50/55 with a nice wedge.
Why should landlords make up for the shortage of real police on the beat?
Feel free to answer.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedfreak (Post 35012334)

so is this story true or not :confused:

:D

Apparently in the police state we live in yes.

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:36 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35012323)

Don't think anyone is listening..I think they have their hands over their ears going lalalala...........;)

No maggy, it is true, the police have now found a new way of doing things.
Next will be telling old grannies not to visit the bank or post office to get their benefits, or they will be banged up for not actively preventing a crime.

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