Cable Forum - why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

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- - why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver? (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33656508)

DarthMuppet

10-10-2009 20:22

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34887832)

Client MAC address information is available to certain VM staff, not all, BenMcr is an example of an agent who can't see this. Probably more second line and technical/security investigations.

The problem is the info is fairly useless to them to the most extent, as client premise equipment registration via MAC address is not required on the VM network, and therefore makes diagnostics tricky in that when a customer changes their cpe address, or cpe all together, it is only seen by virtue of a change of MAC address.

It seems to have worked fine though for the legacy networks in the past, they obviously feel it is not important to have another layer in the modem registration system by forcing the end user to register their computer/network MAC address.

So for some reason your old router address no longer works...have you considered that your area has had a network change such as a service re-segmentation, and that while you were away somebody on a different CMTS with a matching client MAC address was also moved onto the new service with you, and they got an IP address and now you can't?

Absolutely. That was actually the only thing I wanted to know when I called. If they'd said yes, i'd probably have just got on with it. The answer was an immediate unequivocal 'no' too. I'd stop short of calling it a lie (as that implies that it was a known falsehood), and I think the tech just assumed nothing changed. That's wrong too - if you don't know the answer, say so, don't guess. Clearly that was not the correct answer as my earlier IP was in 86.x.x.x and the new one is in 213.x.x.x. If that's not a network change, i'll print this out and eat it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto (Post 34887832)

The diagnostics are there though, perhaps you should push a bit harder, mybe get an escalation to second line - they have the toolsets.

Wouldn't it be nice if they just offered to escalate for me?

xocemp

10-10-2009 21:19

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Have you contacted Linksys for selling you and another customer a device with the same physical address?
How dare they 'Dos' you ;)

DarthMuppet

11-10-2009 07:43

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir John Luke (Post 34887629)

IF post #14 is not relevant, and someone else has indeed used the same MAC address as the OP's ROUTER, this would not be a breach of any T&Cs. It's only cloning the MODEM MAC address which is 'naughty'. People can set their router or PC MAC address to whatever they like, and if there is a clash, it's just bad luck. (As per Toto's post above).

What WOULD be interesting, is what would tech support do/say if the OP's PC MAC clashed, rather than their router's?

(The OP has already stated that if he swaps the router and PC addresses, connecting the PC direct to the modem, he fails to get an IP address. This COULD be due to the issue in post #14, but if not, what WOULD support do/say? I think that is what the OP is asking, in case soeone else less 'techle' has the same issue).

That's *exactly* what i'm asking :)

DarthMuppet

12-10-2009 13:22

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

I was rather hoping that some of our VM staff members would comment on this, but as they haven't, I'll tell you how I think this would play out.

VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP address (modem direct connect)
VM send engineer, plugs existing modem into his laptop, works fine
User in the brown stuff, off to PC world to get a rebuild.
Machine STILL does not work.
VM say 'engineer's PC works fine, must be your PC hardware'
User goes back to PC World, they say 'it's just fine'

At this point it either becomes a ping-pong match, or the user buys a new PC, all because VM won't investigate what, based on the evidence I've presented, is a clear issue with their own service.

For the sake of Joe Non-Techie, can someone PLEASE tell me I've got that hopelessly and completely wrong.....and if so, how it would really play out.

moaningmags

12-10-2009 15:16

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

We can tell if it's a duplicate NIC MAC and do tell this to the customer.

Have you contacted Linksys as suggested by xocemp to find out why they sold a device to you and another customer that has the same physical address or do you not think they're responsible?

DarthMuppet

12-10-2009 16:26

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by moaningmags (Post 34888875)

We can tell if it's a duplicate NIC MAC and do tell this to the customer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moaningmags (Post 34888875)

Have you contacted Linksys as suggested by xocemp to find out why they sold a device to you and another customer that has the same physical address or do you not think they're responsible?

I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)

So, if a user had had their MAC address cloned, the outcome would be different to the new PC / rebuild / ping-pong match I described above?

Toto	12-10-2009 17:09

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMuppet (Post 34888893)

I'll assume you work for VM based on that. It would be nice to know why nobody offered to do that. If its NOT a dupicated MAC address (and it is possible that it isn't) what else could it be? I see DHCP discover, but no response.

I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)

So, if a user had had their MAC address cloned, the outcome would be different to the new PC / rebuild / ping-pong match I described above?

You may be interested to know that a while ago a large batch of motherboards were dispatched with ethernet ports that all had the same MAC address. If memory serves it caused some problems for Virgin Media, or ntl as they were then known.

Raistlin

12-10-2009 17:25

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMuppet (Post 34888893)

I'm not convinced Linksys are at fault here, but I may well ask them. In this day and age, there is no excuse for manufacturing kit with identical hardware addresses. Unless we've run out :)

You'll most likely find that's not the case.

I strongly suspect that someone has simply changed their MAC address to get around an IP issue of some sort, possibly to force a change of their public IP address, and that they happen to have changed it to the same value as yours.

To be honest I think that by now I'd have just made things work (which you've obviously already done) and then moved on. I appreciate how frustrating these things can be, but sometimes they're really not worth the time.

Get yourself down to Pop Bellies on the High Street and partake of the Eggs Benedict (with ham) that they do - it's sublime, especially with a nice coffee, and will definitely make you feel better (always works for me) :D :D

Oh, and <offtopic> if you happen to hear of any good technical security jobs going at whatever (large by the sounds of it) company you work for do give me a shout won't you - I could do with a change of job :p: </offtopic>

xocemp

12-10-2009 19:14

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthMuppet (Post 34888822)

I was rather hoping that some of our VM staff members would comment on this, but as they haven't, I'll tell you how I think this would play out.

VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP address (modem direct connect)
VM send engineer, plugs existing modem into his laptop, works fine
User in the brown stuff, off to PC world to get a rebuild.
Machine STILL does not work.
VM say 'engineer's PC works fine, must be your PC hardware'
User goes back to PC World, they say 'it's just fine'

VM confirm after usual restarts that PC gets no IP/169 address (modem direct connect)
VM first line agent has customer remove coax or put modem in standby, customer gets a 192.168.100.1 to .11 IP. ( All very cleaver this DHCP stuff ;) )
VM first line agent contacts 2nd line who search the CMTS and ARP for the physical address.

For the rest of what VM 2nd line do reread this post
http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34887846-post27.html

<off topic>
I'm off to pop bellies, it sound good
</off topic>

DarthMuppet

22-10-2009 07:20

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

That's good information - thanks. i'll try the bit with the coax removed at some point to see what happens.

I've now been told by VM that my router's MAC does not appear to be in the DHCP logs or tables anywhere. Thinking about it, DHCP makes no special case for a request where the MAC is already in the table - if it did, tools like dhcploc would not work.

Interestingly, since this began, i now have to reboot my router every 2 days, - i can get to my router's management page, but not through it to the CM.

Traduk

22-10-2009 12:16

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

I have a WRT54G on 20Meg and have been seeing the same occasional loss of DHCP lease renewal as you. The simple answer is to reboot the router to force it to renew its lease with the modem.

The changes were evident after I was put back on the 50Meg set-up using Docsis file 1.1 as opposed to 1.0. The change was from never having to reboot the the router to frequently but of late it has held without rebooting which tends to point to something being done at VM's end.

My router is cloned to the MAC of my primary PC but as far as I can tell, a PC will automatically search for a new connection if dropped but a router just sits there like a dummy until its pre-programmed renewal time is right,

I do not think that anybody has asked you if other changes have taken place or what BB you are on and what appears in your event logs. I would guess that as you have had an IP change, that you are on 20Meg and have been migrated.

DarthMuppet

22-10-2009 21:07

Re: why is it that when I need to phone VM, they fail to deliver?

Quote:

Originally Posted by xocemp (Post 34888983)

I got 192.168.100.11 when i unplugged the coax, put the router's original MAC back and rebooted it. Reconnected coax, rebooted router and i got another 213.x.x.x address, so problem now seems resolved.

So i'm guessing the modem is providing DHCP when there's no Coax link so the local hardware can talk to the modem (neat idea), but i'm none the wiser as to the cause of my problem. Ah well.

Thanks to you all.

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