Cable Forum - Lockerbie bomber released

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- - Lockerbie bomber released (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33654016)

Tezcatlipoca

20-08-2009 19:26

Re: Lockerbie bomber release imminent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nidge (Post 34857981)

Ronnie Biggs didn't kill 200+ people.

True.

Although another thing regarding Ronnie Biggs is that there wasn't any doubt of his guilt.

The same can't be said for al-Megrahi, given all the unanswered questions, & those little things like the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission (SCCRC) finding that a major miscarriage of justice may have occurred.

I think it's a pity he had to withdraw his appeal to be able to get compassionate release.

martyh

20-08-2009 20:54

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

i personally don't agree with him being released on compassionate grounds at all ,no prisoner should be released on compassionate grounds ,in this case i don't think he should have been locked up at all as the evidence was flimsy to say the least add the political side to the argument and things start to look a tad shady. I also don't give hoot what the yanks want or think ,they are now demanding he is kept under house arrest untill he dies ,who the hell do they think they are

Chris

20-08-2009 22:24

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova (Post 34857952)

Nothing can be done about it now and it is just another case of Brown toadying to the likes of Gaddaffi and The Dark Lord meeting Gaddaffi's son

All that then happens is the Libyans see this and realise how spineless a country we now are.

So I guess you didn't know that justice is a devolved issue, and that this decision was absolutely nothing to do with Gordon Brown or anyone else in the Labour Party.

This decision was taken by Kenny McAskill, the justice secretary in the devolved Scottish Executive. McAskill is a member of the SNP.

Peter_

20-08-2009 22:36

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 34858124)

Would you trust Brown or the Dark lord not to have bent his ear when it involves billions in oil from Libya?

I for one would trust them not to have meddled about as far as I could throw Libya.

Damien

20-08-2009 22:49

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova (Post 34858131)

Would you trust Brown or the Dark lord not to have bent his ear when it involves billions in oil from Libya?

I for one would trust them not to have meddled about as far as I could throw Libya.

On the other hand, they really irked the Americans. If he was not released people would have said Brown and the 'Dark Lord' intervened to please the Americans and how we are America's lapdogs and so on.

I suspect Brown and Labour were very pleased not to have to deal with this issue at all and stayed as far out of it as possible. It's a lose-lose situation. They would be nuts to have to get involved. It appers McAskill was in an unfortunate situation and everyone else stayed way clear of it.

martyh

20-08-2009 22:51

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 34858124)

seriously Chris i didn't think you were that naive ,this whole saga has politics smeared all over it imo it had nothing to do with true justice just finding a scapegoat to apease the relatives (who weren't as daft as the gov hoped)and getting on making under the table deals with Gaddafi

Tony.

20-08-2009 22:52

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonzoe (Post 34858041)

Yes, the USA always think that they are right, don't they? Remember the justification for the Gulf war was WMD (none found). It was just Bush JNR wanting to complete what Bush SNR didn't.

Oh, and wasn't oil involved.

I get sick of this old colony trying to tell everyone what to do.

There WAS WMD in Iraq. We (the West) sold them to Saddam during the Iran/Iraq war. All the Security services had to do was check the receipts :dozey:

In this case I think he should have been transferred to a Libyan Jail to complete the rest of his days closer to his family but not released.

Damien

20-08-2009 22:54

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 34858142)

Seriously?

The Scottish Justice system is independent. Brown and Co cannot influence it.
Even if they could, it's a different party. What authority does Brown have over the SNP? None.
Why on earth would anyone choose to get involved in this mess? It's a poisoned chalice and anyone could spot it.
Pleasing America is more important to our government that pleasing Libya.

martyh

20-08-2009 23:07

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 34858144)

Seriously?

The Scottish Justice system is independent. Brown and Co cannot influence it.
Even if they could, it's a different party. What authority does Brown have over the SNP? None.
Why on earth would anyone choose to get involved in this mess? It's a poisoned chalice and anyone could spot it.
Pleasing America is more important to our government that pleasing Libya.

i'm not sure how much of a distinction the american public draw between Scottish and British justice so as far as they are concerned "the british have let them down"

nobody chooses to get involved in a mess like this they just are because of the job they do and Brown should be involved just to prove he is in touch with public opinion and has some balls and doesn't just walk away from issues to tough for him to handle

Chris

20-08-2009 23:44

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 34858142)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moldova (Post 34858131)

Would you trust Brown or the Dark lord not to have bent his ear when it involves billions in oil from Libya?

I for one would trust them not to have meddled about as far as I could throw Libya.

If they were stupid enough to try, it would have made no difference. Except that it might have given the SNP some valuable political ammunition with which to beat the Labour Party.

Really, you lot south of the border need to go and read up on how devolution works in Scotland. We have a real parliament here that makes real laws and real ministers with real executive responsibilities. Justice issues like these are simply not in the remit of any London-based minister, they are in the hands of Scottish Ministers in Edinburgh who answer to the Holyrood parliament, not Westminster.

No matter what G. Brown and Co. think about the release of Megrahi, it wasn't their decision to make or to influence and attempting to get involved would have been political suicide, in Scotland at least.

Peter_

21-08-2009 06:36

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 34858168)

Sorry ... how about you run along, read up on Scottish devolution and what it means, and then pass comment when you have at least a slender grasp of the subject.

---------- Post added at 23:44 ---------- Previous post was at 23:38 ----------

If they were stupid enough to try, it would have made no difference. Except that it might have given the SNP some valuable political ammunition with which to beat the Labour Party.

Really, you lot south of the border need to go and read up on how devolution works in Scotland. We have a real parliament here that makes real laws and real ministers with real executive responsibilities. Justice issues like these are simply not in the remit of any London-based minister, they are in the hands of Scottish Ministers in Edinburgh who answer to the Holyrood parliament, not Westminster.

No matter what G. Brown and Co. think about the release of Megrahi, it wasn't their decision to make or to influence and attempting to get involved would have been political suicide, in Scotland at least.

But you still get your money from Central government and Gordon and Meddlesome have hold of those purse strings and you actually still trust them.;)

Osem	21-08-2009 09:06

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Those responsible for releasing this guy may see it as a worthy act of compassion but I can't help feeling that around the globe, terrorists and their supporters will see this as just another example of weakness. Rather than gaining respect amongst those whose hearts and minds we need to win, I think this action is more likely to inspire more derision than anything else. I don't think people who deliberately commit mass slaughter of innocents and gruesomely murder helpless people in front of cameras then distribute the footage will moderate their behaviour in any way as a result of this decision. If anything they'll just despise us more.

Saaf_laandon_mo

21-08-2009 10:05

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Do people here opposing to his release believe he did it? I was not interested in politics when it happened and didn't follow the details of the trial or the subsequent follow up. However having read some of the information from the links posted, as well as the recent press, I would say that there was so much doubt surrounding his conviction that he should not have been locked up in the first place, or been allowed to stay in prison for so long.

So are all the people complaining that he is back in Libya and escaped punishment saying he is guilty?

On page 15 of today's Sun there is a picture of him getting off the plane in Libya with a huge headline across the page saying, "Final Insult". The one page article makes no reference to the doubts surrounding his conviction. It does not suprise me with media coverage like this going out to the masses, that so many people think, "Yes he is guilty. String the ******* up!"

Osem	21-08-2009 10:27

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saaf_laandon_mo (Post 34858290)

Do people here opposing to his release believe he did it?

I'd have thought the answer to that is evidently yes. In the eyes of the law he is guilty, of course, but having now abandoned his appeal it's doubtful we'll ever find out whether there was a miscarriage of justice. Some will argue his release was agreed simply in order to save HMG's embarrassment....

RizzyKing

21-08-2009 11:10

Re: Lockerbie bomber released

SLM i don't know if he was guilty or not i am certainly not convinced he was but until such as that had been established beyond reasonable doubt he should have remained in custody and the investigation should have continued. There is politics in this somewhere whether that be in scotland or not whether it is to do with his release or his conviction but politics is in there. I oppose compassionate release unless as i said the person concerned has demonstrated true remorse and regret over whatever actions placed them in prison and it shouldn't be something that gets abused the way it does right now. Ronnie biggs that frail poor old man that seems to have come on in leaps and bounds since his release and lets not forget the guiness guy (think it was guiness anyway but i am sure someone remembers it better then me) a few years ago who had a really bad illness till he got released and wollah instant cure.

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