Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Yes :tu: Although you have to remember that some of that 90% are like me :disturbd:

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Oh great, let's demonise our children by ignoring the facts and going along with the Daily Mail's view of the world, that'll make them grow up to respect us and our laws.

I'd be interested in this if I could be assured that, say, directors of companies who fleece people of millions in pension mis-sellings or politicians who take bribes (or Jeffrey Archer) would be sweeping the street outside in a lurid pink suit with **** on the back. Somehow I doubt they would (and they are the ones who tend to end up in rather comfortable open prisons rather than the rather small number of persistent yobs who cause trouble).

As for making them do useful jobs around the place, this isn't the 1950s. One major argument against, say, national service is that the job of Average Squaddie today is far removed from what it was in the 1950s - there are far more specialised roles, equipment, training with other NATO forces, IT etc. and it's likely the Army wouldn't be particularly happy to be diverted from its primary task (being a highly-skilled but rather small rapid response force) to become a large, low-skilled place to put bored youth for a year.

Likewise, building, plumbing, electrical work etc. is a trade that these days requires a degree of skill and of course a large amount of certificates etc. Not many people would want to live in a house or work in a hospital wired by a mugger or graffiti artist who was doing it as a punishment in a pink suit. By all means offer to *teach* them a trade* as part of their punishment and rehabilitation, but leave plumbing to people who want to be plumbers.

If you're looking for a place for low skilled workers, try hospital cleaners or any other job primarily done by recent immigrants. MRSA, anyone?

* After all, expertise in daylight robbery is a plus in, say, a builder or plumber

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Oh I'm not saying they do.............just that if the govt thinks that the key is for the parents to sit down with the kids at mealtimes they may find that it's a target too far :D

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

You do *not* make someone part of a community or even make them *want* to be part of a community by *excluding* them from it!

What do they expect? For the person excluded to break down and go "oh no, I'm sorry, please let me come back and be part of the community again"? More likely they'll go "well sod you, I don't want to be part of your damn community anyway!" and this will just lead to more problems in future.
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See above.

Err what??? :confused:
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Yes, because that is exactly what it is.

It says "You are different", "You are being made an example of", "You are excluded from *our* society", "You are not one of Us".

As I said above, this is *not* going to make them want to rejoin a group or society or community that treats them in this way, it's going to make them say "screw you, then, I'll go my own way. Oh and I may just try to make *your* society a bit worse out of revenge".

Not a good idea.
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Ah, "everyone who supports human rights is, deep down, actually just a sanctimonious hypocrite who, as soon as they experience the troubles the *rest* (note the exclusion concept again!) of us have suffered will immediately change their tune and join those of us who know the only solution is to string them all up!!!" :rolleyes:

(And putting a winking smiley at the end of your comment *does not* somehow make it acceptable or "just a joke")

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Well now that you have disagreed with most people who have posted, what is your idea for a proper deterrent that would help reduce the amount of youngsters out there that think it's ok to commit crimes, be abusive to people, damage property and generally behave in such a way that ASBOs have to be put in place etc?

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

I wasn't trying to make it 'acceptable' or a 'joke', I was just making a statement, which I believe we are all entitled to do, even if it doesn't conform to your way of thinking.
Apologies if I have caused offence.
I never said I wanted to 'string anyone up' as you put it, indeed I would be interested to see what your solution would be, as all you have done is picked this thread apart. And as a single parent I have a vested interest - as certain parts of society would blame 'my sort' for the problem in the first place.

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Making an example of a few of them might just make any protoscrotes out there stop and think twice before making the rest of our lives a misery.
As for the fully formed scrotes out there, they should be shown that if they **** with society society ***** them back................it's probably the only language that they understand.

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

How about:

1) Anyone in the media who deliberately distorts facts about crime rates for a lurid headline should be liable to be pelted in the stocks by professors of journalism using wet sponges
2) Any politician who panders to people's perceptions rather than making policy sensibly on the basis of facts should be held upside-down in a vat of warm marmalade
3) The basic tenets of our judicial system should be taught in schools and made familiar to all. In the interim it should be made a sticky on CF's Current Affairs forum
4) All parties should accept that zero crime is only achievable in a state with zero freedom. If you want freedom, you have to accept a level of crime
5) Inequality creates crime. Therefore all parties should accept that reducing inequality is necessary to reduce crime. If this means moving back from the slavish devotion to 'competition' and 'market forces' then tough.

Any more for any more?
Edit: I forgot one
6) Anyone who holds up the example of the US judicial system as in any way a suitable case study from which we can learn positive lessons should be bound and gagged with suitable equipment from Graham's emporium of the exotic.

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

I agree with 1, 2 & 3...........as for 4--zero crime isn't possible even in a totalitarian state--but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for zero crime.

5-'inequality creates crime'--that's such a load of bull!--are you a communist? Criminals create crime and a lack of 'proper' upbringing creates criminals. There will always be inequality- deal with it :rolleyes:

6--Just 'cos the US judicial system isn't perfect doesn't mean that we should dismiss it out of hand.......you can draw lessons from everything.


or was that post tongue in cheek? :D

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

How many times do I have to explain that just because I object to something I *DON'T* have to be able to solve the world's problems as the "price" of that objection???

Oh, and, if you actually bothered to *READ* what I'd written, you'd note that it was the *UNIFORMS* that I was objecting to, not the community service.

It *is* possible for many (but not necessarily all) offenders to be rehabilitated by community service and it's better than putting them in prisons where they are only likely to become better (or more prolific) criminals.

However if you *discriminate* against offenders by forcing them to wear clothing that clearly says "criminal" or "excluded", you are doing *nobody* any favours.

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Well I'm sorry, but I did find that offensive because it implies that *I* (being someone who supports human rights, would be so shallow as to change what I thought just because it was *me* who was affected, rather than someone else.

:rolleyes: See above.

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

But it would be nice if you could offer some solution if you've criticised everyone's opinion?

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Chopping their hands off or putting them up against a wall or just giving them longer jail sentences would also "make an example" of them.

Curiously enough, that's what politicians have been doing by being "tough on crime" etc etc over the past decade or two, yet somehow it doesn't seem to have brought the crime figures down.

Copyright the Daily Mail editorial (although in slightly different words)...
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I've already green repped you in this thread, I can't do it again! :(

KerCHIINNNGG!!! :D

(Although *certain* parts of the US system actually have a more enlightened view, see the links I posted above)
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Damn commies!

Yes, there is certainly an element of lack of "proper" upbringing, but to claim that that is the *only* cause and that inequality doesn't pay a part is simply glib and unhelpful.

Some crimes are committed through greed, others, however, are committed through desperation and that *can* happen where there is massive inequality if people want to survive.

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

You wanna gave Chavs and convicted criminals access, to and training in the use of, Explosives?

:D

Only joking, I don't think you actually meant that.
It's ironic that our local council cannot afford to light all the roads in our town (there are two roads from our local station. One is lit and the other has absolutely no lighting apart from a single bulb at one end despite the fact that most of the passengers use it), yet have enough money to maintain hanging baskets on most of the streetlamps.

Actually, back on topic. I personally have no objection to people doing community service being required to wear a uniform. I certainly don't think it would be more humiliating than wearing a uniform for a job.

You appear to have made several assumptions there. First that Chimaera was referring to everyone who supports human rights (she never said that, and I don't think she was), and second, that Chimaera was in the "String 'em up" group that seems to be present on this forum. I have met her on several occasions, and have spent many hours talking to her (on and off line). While we have never discussed it, I am sure she is not in the "string 'em up" brigade

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

Why not, what's the percentage of the population with a photographic memory? :shrug:

Re: Breaking Rocks for yobs
 

The problem is that no matter how thoroughly you search them, if they are determined enough, they will always find a way to hide a reciept or bank statement.