Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

but we are experts on suffering from crime...

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

I suggest you read the above again: "rather than what actually does most to reduce crime".

Now imagine if one of these elected officials decided they were going to have an "initiative" to protect kids from paedophiles by putting Police patrols around parks and playgrounds and schools.

How can anyone argue against that? How could someone else get elected by saying they were going to take these Police *away* from these patrols when their opponent would shout from the rooftops that they were endangering children...???

Of course the fact that actually it would make virtually *no* difference and it *would* be taking Police away from where they are needed and could be much more useful would get lost in the rhetoric.

The "initiative" would be nothing more than a "political" tool to grab the voters attention and ensure re-election and not be of any actual use in reducing crime.

That is the sort of thing I am talking about.

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Then read the proposal again, the cheif constable will be able to say "no, that's not what we're going to do as it won't make any difference" the media is likely to be involved, if the commisioner is trying to get publicity for himself, giving both parties a chance to state their case, and the facts from the cheif constable are likely to win out.

However, lets say there are loads of kids in one street terrorising people, damaging property, stealing from local shops, bunking off school, joy riding, dealing drugs and generally being unsavoury.
The Cheif Constable would have a hard time justifying not targetting that if the commisioner suggests it.

The commisioner could also push for things such as speed cameras in accident blackspots where they are needed rather than places which will get the police the most revenue (when was the last time you saw an accident on the M275 slip road going out of Portsmouth? Or down on Cambridge road near St George Rd?)

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

The public/media's obsession with the siting of speed cameras is an excellent example of why this proposal is indeed a non-starter.








(PS. If you don't speed why would speed cameras be an issue (beyond, perhaps, civil liberties concerns). The argument always thrown up is that cameras are not about safety but revenue. OK, stop speeding and cut off the revenue stream.)
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Shouldn't that be 'independent' teach? I dunno, standards today! ;) :)

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Err, so what you're saying, then, is that this elected official *won't* be able to change Police policy if the Police don't want it to change...???

I'm sorry? We're talking about Tabloid style media coverage here, since when did facts ever enter into it?!

I think a Chief Constable should have a hard time justifying that *anyway* without needing someone elected to tell him that!

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

We're talking Cable Forum Current Affairs here, when did facts ever enter into it?! :)

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

A gatso camera costs between £20,000 and £40,000 to install.
A PC starts on about £20,000 once training has been completed.
Which would be more effective at tackling total crime?
A £40,000 speed camera or 2 police constables?

The main objection people have with speeding being classed as a crime is that there is no victim.
If someone does 80 down the motorway, who's the victim?
Sure, you're going to say "but if they crash into someone because they can't stop in time then there's a victim" but speed didn't cause it, dangerous driving, by being too close for instance, caused the accident and no speed camera will ever catch someone driving dangerously under the speed limit.
A policeman in a patrol car however can.


I assumed you knew what the PA's powers were rather than just blindly commenting on something you're not well informed of, but for any others who don't know what PA's actually do:

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Rubbish. "If you don't speed then you've nothing to worry about" is NOT the answer. It's a human trait that concentration will waver from time to time. So why should I be penalised for temporarily displaying a factor which is built in to all humans?

Speed cameras do NOT save lives. They do NOT prevent accidents. They just take photographs. A policeman on the side of the road is going to prevent speeding. If I'm driving at 40 mph in a 30 zone then I'll get snapped and rightly so will be punished and the next time I'm in that area I'll be more careful. So how about measures which will prevent or discourage me from speeding the first time I go there?

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

I agree that there should be better signing of speed limits. No argument. Speed limits are just that limits; the highest speed you can drive. If your concentration wavers that much.... and if your concentration wavers you are driving without due care and attention as well as speeding :) Speed cameras do not save lives? Not my understanding of the situation from the figures released last year. As I say this a populist cause; the sort of thing this proposal (notice how I got us back on thread there) would see being seized upon by the easy vote-grabbers.
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Are you replacing cameras every year to balance that particular budget then?!!

But I don't agree that the reduction in traffic police is numb.


(notice how I got us back off topic there?! Sorry!)

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Do speed cameras automatically cause a car's engine to lower in RPM? Do they automatically apply the vehicle's braking system?

No, it's the thought that he/she will get caught which is what causes the driver to slow down.

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

If someone was running with the pledge that they would invest in bobbies instead of gatso's then they'd get my vote.
A policeman can do a far better job of improving road safety than a gatso, and they can be used in other areas to help tackle a variety of crimes.

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

It doesn't happen often but here Xaccers posts something I can say makes perfect sense.

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

So, returning to the thread.... isn't this precisely the point that some of us have been making as to why this proposal should not be implemented. Populist cause = vote=knee-jerk, ineffective policing.

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Oi you cheeky what not! :P
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Sorry? Having more police is ineffective policing?

Re: I think this is a stupid Idea
 

Suggesting speed cameras are ineffective is a highly populist cause. Having more police is a separate issue; I'd like to see more police (and traffic police to catch all those middle lane hoggers, dozy bs and speeders where there are no cameras). But every politician is going to say they'll recruit more police. They do it all the time.

Off for the night now. G'dnight all. And let's be careful out there.