Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I remember the commentator saying that Minardi were against the new qualifying, as they'd lose out on a return of the 107% rule (not really needed, while there are only 10 teams instead of the 12 there once were), and then some other teams followed suit for their own reasons.

As usual, a miserable weekend for Minardi, especially after the death of sporting director John Wilson.

How do they manage to keep up any enthusiasm? - neither the speed, nor the reliability, nor the luck to make any impact, while the other Italian team...

The Ferrari is the best car, or if not the best in everything, the best all-round package.
Schuey is one hell of a driver, but we've never seen a fair fight with his team mate ... and some extremely unfair ones!
And then, there's the strategy, the reliability, the luck - some would say you make your own luck, but if he dropped his toast, it would land butter side up!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

which is fair play to a point , it starts to wear a bit thin when it happens all the time , i can see where you are coming from but it aint racing is it , tbh i would rather watch btcc where it is bumper to bumper and let the best man win , lets be honest , there is far too much money involved in the sport now :erm:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Another predictable outcome. WOT NO COMPETITION!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Oh dear, silly me, thinking it was about the best driving ie; speed, control, overtaking etc.:rolleyes:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

yes i have to agree pauly my friend now its geting like football its a pity it all cant go back to basic's in all the sports trouble is if we could do that we as a country would be well hammered even more than we are allready
can't see any real answer can you ??? :shrug:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Calculate the average distance the field can manage on a full tank of fuel and then abolish pit stops altogether. Then the really skilful driver who can look after his tyres and fuel consumption, whilst actually having to try and overtake on the race track ( it is still called a race isn't it ) instead of having to rely on trained robots and computers in the pits.
It may even become exciting again and at a stroke reduce the massive costs incurred.
but on the other hand, I may have to start playing squash with a wooden Dunlop Maxply Fort instead of my state of the art graphite composite racket, now I would not like that one bit.;)

Oh yes, they could also make the drivers run to get into their cars like they used to at Le Mans. ( just being silly now) sorry.:angel:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

How about putting ballast in the cars, one kilo for each championship point. That'd slow Schumi down a bit (I think). :D

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Abolish qualifying, and start them in the reverse order of the last race finishing positions - then you'd see plenty of overtaking!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i can see an answer and it comes from america , i watched the cart racing on motors tv ( sorry , sky only ) and the racing was far from boring , some real ballsy racing and if a car went off the track then it was push/pull started and away it went as long as all the wheels were pointing in the right direction , i say go back to slicks , reduce the wings , steel brakes and a manual/sequential gearbox that the driver has to take his hand off the wheel to change gear with , add a bit of success ballast as in btcc and i reckon we would have a sport worthy of its name , the idea of 2 timed sessions would imho work to the good of the sport , saturdays prequalifying was pathetic , lets all go as slow as we can so we run first in the proper qualifying so we can avoid the rain we might get is total ******** imho , the push to pass button works extremely well in cart racing , why cant something like that be introduced into f1 ?????????? , rant over :D :D :D :D

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Probably more accidents too

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

why ??????????


sorry :(

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

as i said back to basic's ie repair a blown engine not rip it out and put a new one in etc etc

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

but a blown engine is what it is , a blown engine , the speed they spin at there is going to be considerable damage :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd: :disturbd:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I pretty much agree with all of those suggestions, Paul, the only one I'm not sure of is the 'push to pass' button, as afaik, that works by temporarily allowing more boost from the turbo - and we ain't got them. ;) - but slicks, smaller wings, success ballast, steel brakes & manual/sequential gearboxes :tu:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

fair point about the push to pass , i reckon they could do something similar along the lines of mixture adjustment though :)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Push to pass works in Cart because all the cars are using the same engine. I like the Cart system of allowing the cars to be restarted with assistance and continuing in the race.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i don't know if you saw it but on last weeks collectable models on ideal world they had a scale model of a ferrari formula one steering wheel from 2003,and the expert guy showed you ferrari's push to pass button on it.
i don't know how it worked but he definately called it a push to pass button.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

maybe it was like i said , a mixture adjustment button :)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

could be but i wonder if any other f1 team as the same button,because something for sure gives ferrari the edge and i don't think its all down to schumacher or ross brawn.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

but it cant be illegal as it would have been picked up on :erm:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

ask ron dennis about ferrari,he knows there's one rule for ferrari and one for everybody else.
why would it have been picked up on,ferrari are not going to be so stupid as to call it a push to pass button are they.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

very true but dont you think the fia might just check all the cars thouroughly ;)

edit :- i am sticking with my mixture adjustment idea :)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

in my opinion the fia and mr ecclestone want schumacher to win 17 out of the eighteen races this year,so i'm sure a blind eye can be turned.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

sorry mate but i reckon that is talking total and utter ******** , nothing personal , think about it , what are they going to gain from that , f@ck all i reckon apart from annoying all the formula 1 fans , sorry my mate i reckon you are very very far from the mark on that one :erm:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The "push to pass" button or whatever was mentioned in commentary during one of Schu's overtaking manoeuvres in the French GP.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

and like i said it is going to be some sort of engine adjustment , i.e. mixture richening or whatever

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

sorry paulyoung666,
but bernie ecclestone is money motivated,and if schumacher was to win the championship say by hungary,the fans for the races after that who maybe would have bought tickets won't be so motivated to buy them,and tv viewers less likely to watch the last few races.that would annoy the tv companies who pay millions to show f1 and the sponsors wouldn't like it to.
so bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races, so the fans and viewers will keep watching to see if he can do it.
that way people can't say it is boring(which i think it is by the way)and bernies happy, sponsors are happy, and the tv companies are happy.
after all even the greatest british racer this country has had (nigel mansell) says f1 is boring and after the start he can't bear to watch it.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

very sorry andy1 but i reckon your logic is very seriously flawed :disturbd:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Isn't that the point, though, Andy 1? - people want to see healthy competition, drama, overtaking - not one bloke driving into the distance race after race. It will be an incredible achievement for Schumacher if he can win the rest of the 'races', but a spectator friendly experience, it aint :(

Slightly off topic, but to illustrate what I mean, I watched the World Superbike races from Laguna Seca, last night - I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. The combination of a circuit that makes Cadwell Park look flat & some excellent camera work, highlighting the supreme skill & bravery of the riders, was superb. I know which I would rather watch, these days, & I've been a fan of F1 since I was a kid.:shrug:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

haven't you twigged it yet paulyoung666.
what bernie wants bernie gets.
and bernie wants schumacher to win all the remaining races,so a blind eye can be turned,by the fia the stewards ,charlie whiting and ,the scrutineers.after all cheating has been known to go on in f1.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

whats your point homealone
i agree with what you say about f1,all i am trying to say is i think ferrari have something on there car which lets them win races.and its not all down to schumacher.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

sorry my mate , you are talking out of your @rse , i wouldnt normally rise to this but you are really getting my goat over this :mad:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Too be honest Andy 1, I was avoiding that point, sorry. It's a very controversial, subject. The trouble is, I'm at a loss to think how any mechanical 'boost' could be given, without compromising engine reliability (e.g. by raising the rev limiter), or fuel consumption. That then leaves electronic aids, which were supposed to have been drastically reduced, so who knows? The software is supposed to be scrutineered........

I actually think it's the tyres that have had the most effect, myself, Bridgestone make bespoke tyres for Ferrari - all the other teams have to design their cars around the tyres Bridgestone & Michelin will supply them with, Ferrari's tyres are designed for the car. - which can run with your theory, rather than contradicting it :)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

If it's down to "something on the car", how come even Rubens Barricello can't keep up with Michael Schumacher?

Yes, Ferrari have got one of the greatest GP cars ever, but they *also* have one of if not *the* greatest GP *drivers* ever.

Schumacher has demonstrated this time and again and in the future MS will be talked about in the same breath as Fangio, Clark, Prost and Senna as someone who made Formula One "their" sport.

As to this "push to pass" button, my guess is that either it improves the fuel mixture to add a little extra "oomph" for a few seconds, or it raises the setting of the rev limiter to give some more power briefly, neither of which, from what I understand, are illegal under current F1 rules.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The point is, though, that it's only temporary. If the engine was revving at that speed all through the race or consuming fuel at that rate, then it would be too much, but we're probably only talking of a boost for a matter of a few seconds.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

true - and, as you say, afaik, it is within the rules - the only slight niggle is why you need a 'push to overtake' button, when you are in front, all the time ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

good point that i reckon ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The push to pass button increases, or removes the upper rev limiter on the engine. As when in the slipstream of another car you have less drag and so can go faster. Usually a car will be setup to just fall shy of its rev limiter on the fastest part of the circuit. If you were following someone else close enough you'd hit your limiter and be stuck at normal speed.

The reason why its a button is because you do not want the engine to stray into high revs to often which could happen in the other 6 gears if the limiter was just set higher.
It's most likely easier to have one limit and an overide button than for the ecu to work out what gear the car is in and apply a limit based upon that.

Why would ferrari need it ? Backmarkers and being out of position from pit stops

Bring back the good ol' days of qualy, on fast circuits you could make use of your team mate to slipstream down a straight and then duck out of the way.
K

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Ahem, Silverstone?

Schumacher was *not* in front until another piece of brilliant team pit-stop strategy (going two stops when virtually everyone else was doing three) and some traffic left MS sitting pretty yet again.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The "push to pass" button is also a "push to prevent being passed" button. It gives a boost to help overtaking OR to prevent other cars from overtaking you.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

No it does not do the latter read my post please.
It stops the car hitting 'the wall' when in a slipstream it cannot prevent the car from being overtaken

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I think you miss ian's point.

If the lead car, suspecting he is about to be overtaken, hits the rev limiter button he can attain a few extra mph thus preventing an overtake. Of course if the chase car also hits his button all things are back equal again !! :rolleyes:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

hi graham
have you ever thought,schumacher could be better than barrichello because rubens doesn't have on his car what ever m shumacher has on his.ie illegal software.
and for the rest of you.
as for michael schumacher being the greatest driver of all time.
don't make me laugh,a driver who has to have it written into his contract that his team mate always as to defer to him.who's team mate isn't even allowed to overtake him.
a driver who's team go bitching to the stewards and the fia because the grooves on the opositions tyres are 0.5 of a millimetre to wide.
no schumacher isn't the greatest driver of all time,he just hasn't got the opposition he used to have since hakkinen jacked in and mclaren and williams lost the plot.
but i will agree on one thing ferrari have produced the best car for a long time.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

If you had read my post you would of found that the car would be setup not to hit its rev limiter under normal conditions, that would just be silly if it did.
On the otherhand when one car follows another one closely it's drag is greatly reduced so it can go faster much faster, around 10mph quicker if no limiter is hit. Hence the button temporarely disables the limiter allowing the car to go faster.

This is not just a ferrari thingy btw, Renault, Williams, BAR, Toyota, McLaren, Sauber all have it. The only ones im not sure about are Jordan, Jaguar and minardi (all ford engines)

K

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The "push to pass" button is a feature of Cart racing, not F1, where all the cars run the same Ford Cosworth turbocharged engine. It provides an extra 50 BHP for the duration of the press (approx 10 seconds) by increasing the turbo boost 2 to 3 inches and the driver has the use of this for 60 seconds during the race.

The so called "push to pass" in F1 is basically a fuel economy system that the cars use to conserve fuel during the race. Pushing the button increases fuel flow to the maximum and also advances the ignition by a couple of degrees.

Both the Cart and F1 systems can be used to assist passing AND help prevent being passed. The Cart system gives a bigger percentage speed improvement than the F1 system.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I thought that's what I said ?? In order for any F1 car to go marginally faster for short periods the rev limiter is disabled (or adjusted up at least) via the steering wheel button. :confused:

The rev limiter usually has differing limits according to the gear selected and is useful for limiting revs on airborne cars :shocked: and another setting for the pit lane.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I'm agreeing with you / backing up your statement.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Have you ever considered that if you're going to make accusations like this it's a good idea to have some proof to back them up?

Firstly AIUI the "no overtaking" contract condition was put in by Ferrari, not insisted on by Schumacher, because it makes no sense for the team to risk losing both drivers in a stupid accident when they can have a 1-2 instead. Secondly such "team orders" are now illegal anyway.

So it's the team, not the driver? I suggest you look at the history of F1 and notice the number of times that there have been complaints by one team about another's car infringing some rule by a fraction of a millimetre.

Err, if his success is all down to that, how come he managed to win all those *previous* F1 championships...?

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

and another point , which teams were d'qed for illegally sized brake ducts recently , ok it wasnt ferrari but dont you think that if they had them then they would have been ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Or maybe the brake ducts issue was just down to incometence of other teams.

Maybe Ferarri are just good at hiding things?

Ever the heard the story (which was proven true and admitted) in the 80's where a NASCAR team were running a nitros engine but no one knew because the roll cage was in fact the gas cylinder. In the end the team that did it owned up because NASCAR ripped so many of their cars appart and found diddy squat every time.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

any more conspiracy theories :erm: :erm: :erm:


so the nascar team owned up because nascar couldnt find anything wrong :confused:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

You can cheat and not be found out, but if your spending 100's of hours each week putting that cars back together is it worth it? This was in the days before it was big money.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

F1 is a big money business with the ten teams spending over £1.3 billion a season. The teams watch each other like hawks trying to find that extra bit that could give them an advantage including putting spies in other teams camps. It would take tremendous effort to cheat and avoid being found out by the other teams and official scrutineers. If there was any cheating going on there would be a queue of whistle blowers waiting to pick up the thousands or millions that they would get by revealing all.

It is obvious to anyone that there are five main areas that determine who wins. Technical research, strategy planning, engineering reliability, driver ability and teamwork. Ayone who suggests that there is a sixth area, cheating, is talking out of the back of their head. You have only to look at the qualifying lap times of the top teams to realise that there is only a fraction of a second between the fastest which, to me based on this years race outcomes, suggest that Ferrari have the top driver and the best strategists.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

ermm but the grid can be manipulated by increasing the fuel load during practice to hide the extra speed. Then of course the extra fuel comes in handy at the start of the race.

However im not saying anyone is cheating. At the end of the day Ferarri have the only decent driver, and have bought the rest of the top guys from other teams over a period of time and assembled what has to be considered about the best team possible.

Its the same as any sport if you pay enough you will get the top people and win the top prizes. Therefore money = trophies

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

so button or montoya or coulthard or raikonnen in a ferrari wouldnt win then :erm:

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

all right then tell me what real opposition schumacher as had then in all his championship years.and please don't say damon hill (the man who daren't overtake or please keep ralph behind me eddie or i won't win the race).
i mean real opposition like senna,prost,mansell,piquet,fittipaldi,andretti,ste wart,clark.
oh and i nearly forgot if schumacher is the greatest racing driver on earth why does he have to cheat to win, ie hitting damon hill in the side pod to stop him winning the world championship,trying to do the same thing to jaques villneuve another time.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Just accept the fact
Michael Schumacher is the greatest F1 driver of his generation, maybe of all time. He has proved it time and time again. Just look at what he achieved in 97,98,99 almost winning the championship in an inferior Ferrari, which he finally won in 2000. Plus countless races where he drove the cars to the absolute limit.

If you don't like him personally then you don't like him. But it's less painful if you just accept the fact that he is maybe the greatest F1 driver of all time.
You only end up sounding like idiots trying to criticise him or find excuses.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

just look back to the last 2 races.. the best driver at the moment in the best car thought it was better to pass via the pit stops than do it on the track.. Surely that is what is wrong with F1 at the moment..

For Shuey's contract i remember back at Benetton when Herbert came there he wasn't allowed to see ANY data from Shuey's car after the first test when they saw how quick he was. Shuey was allowed the data from Herbert's car. That isn't very far.

On the conmputers now they put up signs showing car no x is under investigation. Sometimes this leads to penalties and sometimes after reviewing the evidence nothing happens.

At the US GP last year Shuey looked to have passed Button when a yellow flag was out at turn one. Maybe the zone didn't start until a few yards further on from the mopve but it was very close. The stewards never even chose to look at this again.

At the US GP this year after the restart Shuey was right along side Barrichello. Now the rules state there is no racing until the cards have passed the start \ finish line. Shuey went past alongside Barrichello and the timing screen showed the gap as 0.000 initially it showed Shumacher ahead and then it "adjusted itself" . Now even if Shuey wasn't ahead he was still racing as he was 0.000 behind Barrichello. if that isn't racing what is!! Why wasn't that investigated by the stewards if only to say we've looked at it and he was behind.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

what about Varzi, Ascari ( both Antonio and Alberto), Caraciolla,Mosmeyer and Stuck

let's face it half of these names are unknown to people here but you can't discount what they achieved.

For my money and the best of all was Nurvolari

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

wasn't there a race in the last few years where the great m schumacher went off into the gravel trap and was pushed back onto the track by the marshalls and a spectator.and didn't the said schumacher go on to win the race.
i thought being pushed back onto the track automatically disqualified you.
but not if your names m schumacher,a rule was found which states that you can be pushed if you are in a dangerous position.
once again schumacher is favoured by the stewards,i bet if any other driver did this he would have been disqualified.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The quicker Schumacher is out of the equation, the better. I know for a fact 99% of the time he'll win = F1 Tedium.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

can i stop laughing now

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Button - No he seems to trail off towards the end of a race, montoya possibly but not as dominent he runs off the road abit to much and tangles up with other cars.
Coulthard - No he aint fast enough he's a once maybe twice a year kinda guy.
Raikonnen possibly if he was abit more of an all rounder circuit wise.
All of them really need to be able to put up the quick laps when needid.
These cars do super quick qualyfying times yet are nowhere near the pace in the race even though they start with a nearly 3 laps less fuel.

With Regards to us gp, its no passing till crossing the line after the safety car has pulled in, not racing.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

the best race i ever saw schumacher in was the british grand prix at silverstone in 1999.i often play it on the video best laugh i've ever had.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Hrumph, if you could put Senna, Prost, Mansell, Piquet, Fittipaldi, Andretti, Stewart, Clark (to borrow from another post in this thread) and a few of his peers he is currently competing against in a race with Schumacher, all driving the same car, well I guess he would still win, but only because he would use his car as a battering ram and be the only car on the track come the finishing line.

He is a very good driver, there is no taking that away from him, what I feel is his downfall is that there seems to be a lack of sportsmanship, that makes watching him and F1 a complete turn-off to me at the moment.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

seriously though i think we should revert back to pre senna's death days.
slick tyres, no plank,the full hour for everybody qualifying, and possibly no refueling.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

well put smharman i agree.its like watching a robot watching schumacher

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I would like to see two races of a shorter distance at every Grand Prix with the grid for the second race being in reverse order to cars finishing position in Race one. Cars to be fueled for the race with no refuelling allowed.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

it was the European GP and... the Nurburgring.. again the incident wasn't even investigated it was just decided straight off that he was in a dangerous position so he was allowed to be pushed back on track

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Yes, exactly a rule was *found*, ie it already *existed* it wasn't made up just to help Schumacher. IIRC the rules state that it's illegal to get a "push start", ie if the engine has stopped, but his was still running.

Please, these sour grapes are getting very tiresome.

Ok, you don't like Schumacher, we get the point, but please stop trying to make up conspiracy theories that his success has been due to "favoritism" or "bias" or "cheating" or any other such nonsense, because unless you can back them up with something credible, you're not going to convince anyone.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

what we need is the following

slick tyres... narrow at the front and huge at the rear
tyres should be hard enough to last entire race.. this would mean there would be no marbles off the racing line so cars could use the extra track without penalty
no refueling.. cars should be on track at all times. with no pitstops for tyres or fuel cars have to overtake if they want to move up a place
revert back to car width from pre-98 and reduce wing width by 2 inches each side of the central plane
no barge boards, extra wings on engine covers \ in front of rear wheels
no sensors on the car or computer data allowed.. black box recorders to be used by FIA only for recording accidents and increasing safety.. the driver is the best sensor there is so why get a computer to do it ?
allow more powerful engines and go back to steel brakes.. let the cars go faster and make them have greater distances to slow down for corners
qualifying as it was
circuits with more highy speed corners
get rid of the 2 hour race time limit
no safety car ( no refueling allowed so can't be used as cars would drop out of race)
raise the weight limit and ban balast.. make the cars heavier and force contructors to put the extra weight in making cars safer rather than lowering centre of gravity
rules stability for next 5 years to allow smaller teams a chance to catch up
wind tunnels use limited
point for pole and fastest lap
less testing plus teams to nominate testing circuit to prevent testing at circuits before GP weekends
F1 fans to sit on F1 comission

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

As i said, Ferrari have bought themselves the best team by buying the best people (e.g. drivers, engineers etc) Sadly i dont think those drivers in a Ferarri would win either. Schumacher arrived at Benneton and was instrumental in making it a winning team. That fact of te matter is that the team is built around his driving style.

Taking another driver and putting them in Schumachers car doesnt mean they should be as good as him. Everyone likes a different car set up and that often means the car is designed around the #1 dirvers driving style.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

The important words in the point made as "HIS GENERATION" all those drivers are from a different generation and cannot be compared with anyone in the current generation. They knew how to use a clutch and a gearbox!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I disagree with this, he is favoured by the team to the detriment of their No. 2 driver, far more than any other teams. You get the impression that the drivers in other teams work as a team of drivers, not in Ferarri.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Im all for seeing ballast added for previous points scored just like in Touring Car racing

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

o its you again graham is it.
i can have my say on this forum just like you can.if you don't like what i put don't read my posts.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Does anyone in their right mind believe that the other nine teams would spend around £1 billion a year if there was even the slightest possibility that these conspiracy theories were true? Many a race is decided by a single incident that if it happened just a fraction of a second earlier or later would mean a different result. Pit strategy is a prime example where only a fraction of a second can mean the difference between being stuck behind a slower car or being in front of it when leaving the pit lane. Let's face it, Ferrari have had the better car, the better reliability, the better strategy and the best driver in recent years.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

now now girlies ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

sorry smharman
i beg to differ schumacher in my opinion schumacher is definately favoured by bernie ecclestone,charlie whiting and the stewards.
ask montoya see what he thinks.
also was that quote the one about him being pushed back onto the track.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i'm afraid to say all the evidence points to this.. look at 97 where he got let off for driving into Villeneuve.. he should have been kicked out of the 97 championship and had his results removed from the record books, all his victories from there still stand and been kicked out of 98 as well.

Part of the problem is that the cars are so safe now the drivers know if they hit each other they can get way with it.. in the past that wasn't the case. look at Trulli's accident from Silverstone for example.. If they knew they would get a broken bone or worse from a crash would Shuey drive the way he does.. i think not

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

thats a good idea sherer.
f1 fans to sit on a f1 commision.
also what about making f1 more fan friendly instead of celebrity friendly.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i think what Bernie should do is get some Alfa P8s built and get the best drivers from F1, Champ Cars, F3000, Nascar, IRL etc to race in them in Non-Championship 500 mile races over the winter..

Then we could really see who was the best at the moment.

Still think if you look at Nuvolari and what he did over his career or even G Hill or Clark and how they could be quick in anything they are better than Shuey who gets a car built so he can drive it.. Look at what happened when Alesi and Berger went to Benneton and couldn't drive the old car Shuey had.. Don't think it is a coincidence that after Ruben pushed Shuey harder than he been pushed over a season by a teammate before the next car they made suited Shuey better and now Rubens can't challenge him any more

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

[QUOTE=sherer]i think what Bernie should do is get some Alfa P8s built and get the best drivers from F1, Champ Cars, F3000, Nascar, IRL etc to race in them in Non-Championship 500 mile races over the winter..

Then we could really see who was the best at the moment.



don't the americans already do some thing like this and call it iroc

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

International Race of Champions = IROC.. not very international as all US people but there you go

it's saloon cars with the IRL and nascar stars in them.. we need to do something similar but go back to cars with no wings \ downforce

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

There was a reminder that car safety is not everythin, with Ralph's accident - F1 Cars and concrete don't get on well together, unlike at Monaco, where there are a lot of walls, but plenty of armco to slide along.


Maybe the other teams will figure a way to counter the strategy that Ferrari use a little too much.... carrying a few laps more fuel, and risking losing out on pole. Trouble is, if all the other teams did the same, they'd be behind - it need ONE to get in front, for those behind to surprise him by running longer.

Mind you, if they DO change the qualifying, how's that going to work?
Fuel 'em up at the start and then try to get a good lap, whil keeping more fuel, and not spending the tyres too much?

A whole new balance, as on average, the best lap would either be on fresh tyres, or with a low fuel load. I'd guess on Coulthard being a few places up if they move away from single lap quali, as he's never been good with it.

The 10 place penalty for engine changes is also rather too steep, especially as it usually seems to be bottom half of the pack teams who seem more likely to be in that position.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i can sort of see your point about the 10 place penalty being a it steep , but who suffered last race ??????????? , alonso , and why didnt he do better than he did in the race ??????????? , the spec of the cars wouldnt allow him to , that is why , the big aerodynamic blackhole came into play when he tried to overtake even a 'lowly' minardi or sauber or jordan , there is no getting away from the fact that the cars need a radical overhaul to sort the sport out before it dies a slow and painful death :( :( :( :(

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

sad but true - ban the 'dirty' air - but keep 'slipstreaming' - was that gurney flaps or gurning contests :D

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

And if you don't like what I say about your messages, don't post them in the first place...! :rolleyes:

This is a public forum, you're free to say anything you like (within the rules) but if I think you're talking out of your backside or making up "conspiracy theories" based on nothing but seeming jealousy, I'm free to comment on that too!

If you can supply some *facts* to back up your *opinions* (and not just supposition, hearsay and innuendo) then please, post them so we can have a reasonable debate on the subject.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

huh? and what sort of circuit would you used that doesnt give a bias to someone?

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Would be more suited to a PM exchange. We dont need to hear this.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

Nah, as Incognitas says, pull up a deckchair. Both are having a valid debate, just some pacifiers and toys seem to be lying on the floor now.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

would be fine if it was on topic

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

It is
Graham is refering to this alleged favouritism Shuey is given over all others. Andy 1 seems to find it difficult to provide anything other than a JFK/Moon landing proportioned conspiracy theory.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

i didn't know that you where a moderator graham.
have you ever thought i could be posting my conspiracy theories to wind people like you up.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

he isnt but the way you are going on there is going to be a mod landing very heavily around here soon , if you want to argue a point , then take it to pm , as i did with graham recently , it was sorted out no problem , and that will allow this thread to carry on as normal ;)

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

beg your pardon
but schumacher crashing into damon hill and jaques villeneuve is not a conspiracy theory nor is it a conspiracy theory that he stopped in the gravel trap and was pushed back on to the track,these things happened and are fact.
all i am doing is stating my opinion that schumacher is favoured by his team and certain f1 officials and i am not alone in thinking this try reading some interviews given by juan pablo montoya or eddie irvine (shumachers ex team mate) for instance.

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

so i take it if you have a conspiracy theory you can't post on this forum,is that right.
if not tell me what i have done wrong,and why graham is right.i notice you don't have a go at him paulyoung666.
or could it be you are both schumacher fans and don't like a bit of critiscism of the said schumacher

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

And surely all Graham is doing is disagreeing with you? As has been said before, in a public forum like this, you won't get everybody agreeing all of the time - just live with it.

For the record, I think that Schumacher is a top driver with the top team who, on occasion, isn't above using a few dirty tricks to get his own way!

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

me a schumacher fan , no way jose :erm: , nowt wrong with a bit of the old conspiracy theory now and then , i just cant believe that you seriously think that everything is weighted in schumachers favour :confused: , for the good of the sport the reverse should be true , do you seriously think that bernie and his cronies want to see m.s. winning all the time , if you do then you my friend are living in cloud cuckoo land :(

Re: Formula One Motor Racing
 

I truly hope this is not the case. Deliberately provoking other members is against the Terms of Use of this site:

3.1 You agree that you will not provoke others or cause trouble. If you wish to argue with people then go to instant messenger or email.