Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Monkey, any chance you can post a template of the first letter you sent? I don't want to go quoting Acts etc as advised by Mr Angry if it's going to **** them off....

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Good point OB, this is one of the things that's holding me back, I seem to have lost the plot somewhere, I know it's a lot to ask, but is there someone who can either post a link to / or post the letters in the order they should be sent, and the manner / content of said letters :tu:

sorry to ask a lot but I'm soooooooo stupid when it comes to this stuff, probably what got me into the state of affairs in the first place.

Thanking any and all in advance :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Go to THIS forum - sign up (same as any other forum, no charges or anything)
You will then have access to the letter templates (sticky threads in that forum)
Then read the FAQs
Then go HERE and pick your bank and see how others are getting on against them

IIRC process in summary

1. The letter to request your statements for last 6 years under DP act - they have quite a long time to respond to that but most seem quite quick - max £10 charge for this
2. Wait for statments, calc what you've paid and are owed
3. Letter giving them 14 days to refund your charges
4. Letter Threating to sue them for the money giving them 14 days to give to refund your charges
5. Letter 'Before Action' threatenng to take them to court - again 14 days notice
6. Create a court action/case online at MoneyclaimOnline, again this gives them some notice period - you have to pay charges up front, but would be claiming those back too + 8% interest on the amount owing to you (spread sheet for calculating interest HERE)


I didn't do step 1 since, no charges before, so went straight to no .3

Never heard from them once in the entire process, untl the funds appeared in my account + letter next day after step 6

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thanks bob a builder, that has been posted I think, I'd forgotten about it, maybe a MOD could create a sub thread to this with relative links etc etc, it might save others getting lost in the flood of posts as i did.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I did exactly what Bob_a_builder said. I got to step 3. I asked for it back, and they did! I may be lucky, or they know they are very in the wrong.

---------- Post added at 10:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:01 ----------

I would post the letter I sent but I would rather you sign upto the consumer action website as bob_a_builder has posted, as they were very helpful to me.
Or PM me!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

My son went to Barclays in Guildford and he asked the manager to give him 60 quid back that they debited from his account for being overdrawn 2-3 times the previous years. The manager thought that it was ridiculous request and he brushed it off as naÃÃâ€*’¯ve but he registered the complain with Barclays legal dept.

A cheque of 100 quid was sent by Barclays to my son today as gesture of good will.

This and Shaun's advice on a Credit card saved me 600 quid--- no bad!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Lloyds TSB have just issued a leaflet with this months CC bills - this is the new conditions including the late payment charge reduced from £20 to £12 in addition to this it points out the interest rate for cash advances and normal transactions is both xx.xxx% and xx.xxx% - morons! (section 5.1)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Capital One sent a leaflet in their statement - no sign of reduced fees for bouncing payments but they're now classing withdrawals at bookies and internet gambeling sites as cash advances rather then purchaces. :rolleyes:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I am bit puzzled about this. I understand you could not use your credit card to gamble, for example there was the case of Kassogi, the arms dealer that used his credit card in various euro casinos and lost millions. The casinos failed to enforce his debts as he had used his credit cards to gamble and that was illegal.

That's perhaps why Capital One classes them as cash advances.

Capital One is also one of the few credit cards that can be given to under 18 (non principal cardholder). The idiots at 3 network, said to my 14 year old son, we checked, you have a credit card, therefore you are over 18, here is free adult content for you....

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've made this thread a sticky as there seems to be a wealth of useful info in it. :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Does anyone have an update on their claim ?

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Still no updates then ???

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

not at the moment hun :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Not always possible. I went overdrawn once (without an overdraft) not so long back and got charged £20 for going overdrawn, plus £30 as it was a DD that took me overdrawn (it was only by about £8).

On top of that, my bank has been charging me at least £20 a month for going overdrawn because their £20 charge made me overdrawn each month :mad:

So I got stuck in a nastly loop, as paying my bills didn't leave enough in my account to pay their charge, but they took it anyway.

Also, the other month, I phoned ntl up and paid my bill with my debit card, and it got approved, as I had enough money in my account. Then, a couple of weeks later, I got a letter from ntl saying that my bank had not paid it. The reason was... My bank had took their charges out AFTER my payment to ntl was approved.

I'm only just about getting sorted from that.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

yeah the banks will always approve charges to them over other payments.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Any updates or success stories yet ??????

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just sent my first polite letter yesterday asking them for the charges back (First Direct). Will post any results.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've tried 3 polite letters to FD with no joy...

They just quote standard T&C back & refer you to the FSO.

Time for the legal action route I think....

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

There's lots of examples of successful cases against FD on the Consumer Action Group site - Lots of cases in it's own forum here

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Not me :( Still waiting for NatWest to action the SAR.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Hoping to be able to complete the cliam online when more funds hit my account next month.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

It seems most pay up at this stage..........see online survey post 219 or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/surveyresults.php

Keep going

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Update on my claim - sent of my first letter, asking nicely with no quoting and acts etc... Got it all back in full! Yay! :D:D
I was only claiming 560 quid, so I'm not sure whether that was too small a claim to bother them too much - is your claim larger?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

OB, congrats & well done. Let the floodgates open!!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Orangebird................well done

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

what bank orangebird?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

First Direct!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Only claiming 560 quid, well only give it to me then :)
Good on yer ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I didn't mean that it was a small sum of money - I'm paying for a wedding at the moment and the money was an absolute saviour. What I meant was, looking at other cases, if the claim goes up into the thousands, they resist a little more before giving in.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Gotcha ;) but its better in your pocket than theirs, will go towards the photographer :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No, it's paid for half the dress... my photographer is free. :D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Barclays has reported a 37% rise in half-yearly profits to £3.6bn
:mad:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5240928.stm

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Did anyone watch GMTV this morning?
A woman from liverpool who took on her bank over £3700 bank charges.
She had been working but had to go off sick, she built up the above overdraft through bank charges, she even went into the bank hoping to get a sympathetic ear, instead they said basically she had to pay back.
She heard about the website that was set up, took their advice on getting her money back, sent her bank a letter threatening small claims court proceedings.
The bank sent her an offer of £575 off the total debt, she declined.
Then she got another letter offering over £1000 off the debt, again she refused.
During this period the wheels were in motion for the small claims court.
Eventually, within 2 days of receiving a date for the hearing she received a cheque for the full amount.:)
The guy on GMTV said that you have to stick to your guns, that the banks do not want this to get to court so they are paying out to save going to court.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thought you might be interested in this article...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I prefer everyone paying £20 then many paying nothing with a few paying hundreds a year, I know where I stand then.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Depends on the bank. Our bank approves everything else on the basis that (OK perhaps I'm being cynical ;) ) they will apply their charges anyway so what's the worst that can happen other than more charges.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Work collegue .............claimed £1031 and has just been offerred £925 based on first letter :) :) :) !

Mike

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

If the 1031 included interest and the 925 is the basic charges, accept it!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Accept it anyway, £925 on the hip is better than £1031 that could take months to get.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No! You should accept nothing less than at least the amount of the charges. It's not protocol to ask for the interest too on yourt first letter as I advised above - interest should only be claimed once you file a mony claim on line (to start court proceedings). :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

No, about the same....

Your reputation must precede you!! ;)

Well done!!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

If you've paid interest to your bank as a result of an overdraft caused by the charges you can claim that back as part of the initial claim. It's only the 8% you can't claim until it gets to the stage of court proceedings.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

You can ask for 8% interest at any point, you don't have to wait untill you go to court. I'd advise anyone to calculate and request the interest as the banks will pay that too. :)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

They won't offer it on your first letter. And I'd advise (having claimed sucessfully myself) not to refuse an offer that pays the charges back in full, but not the interest.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

When the APR is 17.9 % though you should certainly claim the interest.

Especially when the company in question have reduced their charges from £20 to £12 but increased the interest charge to 19.9% for me netting them £14+ extra a month of my money.:grind:

I haven't been charged for the last year either because I'm paying the card off.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

:rolleyes: I'm fed up now. Just read the Consumer Action Group banking forums for yourselves. Follow their advice - IT WORKS!!!!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I've now had a file a complaint with the Information Commissioner regarding NatWest's failure to action my SAR, I've also written to Natwest and given them 7 day's before I head down to the county court and arrange for them to be forced to comply (and pay out in damages any fee's on phone calls, letters, my time etc)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Sorry, should have made it clear. I have already written the letter to them. 5 days ago I asked for the money or they can go to court, waiting for a response now.

Working out what they owe me and the interest is how I now know that I am paying them £14 a month more...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I have sent my letter in for the money just waiting for a reply I will give them a call on Thursday to see if they have recieved it or trying to pretend its not arrived if they havent got it will send a second one recorded delivery.

Just hope they offer me the amount without the charges and I will be happy.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

when sending a letter to the bank do u just post the letter to your local branch

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I think you have to send it to the official registered office and I believe that all registered companies have to include that address on all correspondence they send to the public.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just worked out how much Abbey National have charged me since last August…

£1,030! ! :eek:

A letter will be winging its way to their head office tomorrow…

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I'll be interested to see how you do with the Abbey, my claim will be against them ( when I pull my finger out ) read some stories over on the consumer advice site, Abbey are trying a stall tactic by say thatthey don't hold the records anymore, something along those lines anyway. Not trying to put the mockers on your claim, like I said, I'll be watching, off the top of my head I would say they owe me £5000 - £10,000 :Yikes:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

What they actually say is that they don't store the last 6 years' worth of charges separately from "other transactional data" (which I read as being payments and withdrawals). They do offer (for a charge of £5 for one month's worth of data or £10 for several months' worth) to retrieve a complete list of transactions from microfiche. They even supply a form to request the data.

The day after receiving the letter I received the past year's worth of statements, which pretty much covered the period that they were charging me for so I didn't bother with the microfiched data.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Nice one, I knew it went something like that :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

************* do that as well... I expect if you check the dates that the law changed about how data had to be kept then you ewill find it mysteriously coincides with the date that the records are held on microfiche...

Still haven't heard from a certian CCcompany yet... 10 days so far, 4 days to go...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Quote:
I would like to advise you that under a Data Protection Act Request, you will only receive the transactions that are currently held on our systems. These will be forwarded to you within 40 days, free of charge, under separate cover. Any earlier transactions have been archived onto microfiche, which is not covered by the Data Protection Act. These archived transactions will not therefore be supplied to you under a Data Protection Act request and will not be subject to the 40-day ruling.

Any bank / financial institution citing this as a reason for exemption / non compliance is chancing its arm.

Under the terms of the DPA Part 1: 1(c) it is stipulated that the data covered by the act includes all and any data held in relation to an individual which "is recorded as part of a relevant filing system or with the intention that it should form part of a relevant filing system".

Microfiche IS a filing system. It forms a part of their archiving system and is, therefore, a part of their relevant filing system. Otherwise why do they have it?

The banks are simply trying to put claimants off by citing this nonsense as it is more expensive for them to convert microfiche records into legible understandable paper documents for claimants (which the act requires them to do).

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

mr angry is a very on the ball person.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Cheers!

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Nice info ( again ) Mr. Angry :tu:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The banks are still breaking the law then by (a) not complying and (b) pretending the law is something different.

What would happen if someone took their above statement to a court?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Firstly you'd have to get to court, 99.99% of cases never see court and are settled beforehand.

If you got to court the court would read the exact same section of the DPA as copied above. There is nothing in the exemptions precluding any records held for the previous six years.

If a bank can make records available to the Information Commissioner if asked to do so in order to prove to him that they are meeting their statutory obligations and complying with the Act then why can't they make them available to a customer under the Act?

That is the question a claimant or judge / magistrate would ask.

From the bank's perspective there is no answer which would defend any such position having been adopted by them when dealing with customer requests under the DPA.

To attempt do so would draw into doubt whether or not they were complying with the Act at all.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

yep, its a shame they dont get to court over such things.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Actually, its not as insiduous as that. Mostly the instances that Mr Angry is referring to are cases when so-and-so doesn't know the law was changed. In 1998-2000, the DPA was very quietly revised. In fact so quietly, not many businesses I know, know it was revised at all.

Under the old (1984) DPA, data stored manually was exempt. That included microfiches and good old paper. Only electronically stored data was covered. That was the reason for the DPA in the first place. For centuries we've been able to store paper happily without needing a DPA. It was brought in as technology grew, with things like remote access via networks, and things like the ability to make identical duplicates without the author's knowlege.

In 2000 it was updated, amongst other things, to close a loop-hole they spotted. It was updated to include any manually stored data that was part of an electronic system. I.e. a word processed document that was printed out and stored in a locked filing cabinet, but not saved.

The trouble is it was so quietly done, most are completely oblivious that the goal posts moved a couple of miles over night. I certainly didn't recall any news or fanfare about it. Many are still unaware it changed... I spoke to a guy, who owned a small building company (only one employee) about upgrading and he turned me down saying he wanted to bypass the act by sticking with paper storage.

So its not always a case of the eeeevil baby-eating companies trying to trample over the citizen.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thats assuming thats the situation, however you would expect banks to know the law you can excuse a 1 employee company.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Interesting given that the company in question have not responded within the 14 days I gave them. There reason when I phoned them earlier - apparently the microfilch is held off site and it takes upto 28 days to get a response and they won't pay claims without confirming them first.

I was already going to write a letter to them to advise that they had 14 days to cough up or I'd take legal action* (+costs) but this is more weight to the matter. I think a comment to the information commisioner is in order...

BTW does any one know if/when I can add the special delivery costs to my claim (to the registered office no less, none of this 'we didn't receive it' tosh for me)

*I send them a copy of the N1 form with full details...

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Add all postage and telephone costs from the start mate :)

In addition stick to your guns, if you gave them 14 days then 14 it should be. Send the N1 to the court and sit back and wait for Abbey to cough up. I'm sure it'll light a fire under them ;)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

After my first letter to HSBC I have received an offer of £808 from the £950 they have charged me. As my daughter starts Uni soon I am considering accepting this

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Did they give you a reason for the £808.00 ?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

yes sending over PM

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Cheers. Right back at you.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Any update on this which you can share ( as a collegue was offered £950 based on a claim of £1031.0 0....first letter HSBC !)

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Any update on this which you can share ( as a collegue was offered £950 based on a claim of £1031.0 0....first letter HSBC !)

Hi Mike, I can't comment on Florence's case for obvious confidentiality reasons but I can tell you that there have been a swathe of settlement offers of late with "strange" figures being bandied about.

It appears that the majority of banks are simply giving refunds on the first letter as they know that there's no point in protracting what they are not confident they can defend.

One instance I am aware of with a value of £1132.6 4 was settled (minus £54.00) yesterday after the first letter which went as follows - I kid you not!!

"I value my credit card and the services which you / it afford me however I also suspect that the recent interest rates applied to same are to offset successful claims by customers in respect of charges levied. Whilst I am prepared to pay additional interest for the use / convenience which your card affords me I have to draw a line when it comes to unfair charges.
I can quite well do without the hassle of County Court proceedings to recover these charges and, to that end I am hopeful that you will afford my particular case you most careful consideration and respond to me at your earliest convenience †“ hopefully with a mutually agreeable outcome."

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Mr Angry the big question still for me is tho are the majority of people claiming still moving to different banks after or still able to use the banks facilities as normal?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

maybe taking the first offer and thanking them like Mr Angry said to me would help, as you have still allowed them to have some money for the use of their money so to speak but have had the builk returned.


I am ok if need be as the family allowence into one bank and my wages another so I can just move my wages over if I need to.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The thing to bear in mind is that banks are banks, it's what they do. Each will have their own hangups from a customer perspective. As Florence says above - having two accounts is the best idea / practice.

Two years ago the banks would refund and then close the account out of spite. Today, however, if they were to do that they'd soon be in difficulties with the sheer number of people reclaiming charges so they have to be more pragmatic in their approach (hence the dramatic increase in very near complete offers of settlement after letter one).

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Finally got all my statements through, claiming for just under £1000. It took 10 phonecalls, 3 letters, a complaint to the ICO and the chairman of RBS. They were kind enough to send me back my £10 SAR fee, they stapled a tenner to the one of the statements :S

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

These disputes... They're only affecting the inital charge for going overdrawn, aren't they? Not the set interest rate for remaining overdrawn?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Correct.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

If you can show that the interest you're charged is due to a penalty fee taking you overdrawn then you can claim it back, sign up here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum there's loads of info on it, after registering read this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...tructions.html

You can also claim 8% APR interest IF it goes to court, but not before.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Thats why I have applied for a 2nd account but until I have gained trust with the 2nd bank it has no visa card and no overdraft limit meaning I cant just leave the 1st bank, the overdraft is a moot point since a payout would cover the amount but the visa card is a much needed thing for me.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

There must be about 14 billion credit cards that you could apply for & get, your bank's isn't the only one.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

The problem there is the assumption that you will get one of the varied credit cards - it took me ages to get one and, even 3 years later, I'm still stuck with a lousy credit limit :shrug:

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

wow, iv just been hit by this charge so am finding this thread very useful, thanks to Mr.A, your a star.

the outline is
i opened an Alliance & Leicester account a while ago as was required by the gov to deposit the child benefit and i wanted a DD option that my PO account doesnt have.

long and short of it is that i didnt have any problems having the NTL DD setup in november and was running the account just fine until last month.

im still not sure who started this, but it was eather NTL asking for the DD a day early and also made a second failed request and so a double charge, or the bank messing up(intentionally?), but it turns out that last month i was tecnicly something like 50p overdrawn by the DD request and thats what has started this mess.

low and behold, NTL didnt get their allocated cash (apparently in law a DD is a cash payment?)

http://www.swarb.co.uk/lisc/Banki19971997.php

the result was that now NTL were also making that request for a late payment £10 charge , just great.....

perhaps Mr.A can advise how that unlawful charge might be set aside after/if i manage to recover every single penny of my money from the bank ?.

as yet iv not done anything as i intend looking into my quickest options on monday as it involves a state benefit that the banks messing with and apparently (depending were you are?) thats a no-no.

the right of appropriation
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ighlight=anone


heres some info you readers might be able to use , apparently its all about your instuctions to the bank as regards your deposits (something i never realised you could do).

http://www.advicewirral.net/news_selected.php?Code=26
"Posted By: Kieran Littler
22nd October 2003



During the course of a normal bank/customer relationship, where an account is either operating within an agreed overdraft facility or is in credit, it is not usually necessary to consider how money paid into an account should be allocated. It is only when there is a dispute about an amount owed and/or where an account is operating outside of an agreed facility that the question arises.

As a general rule, if you pay money into an account you have a right to apply that payment as you wish and that, if you do not do so at the time of payment, the bank may decide how the money should be used.

This rule can operate to the detriment of the customer. Take the common example where you have a current account from which a monthly transfer is made to a loan account with the same bank. If you pay money into the account without giving any instructions, the bank can use some or all of the money towards the loan repayment. This could result in other payments not being made. However, if you specify exactly how you want the money to be used, the bank must follow those instructions.

Broadly speaking, the situations where appropriation might be helpful fall into two main categories:

• You have an unauthorised overdraft or have exceeded the agreed limit. You want to pay in money and draw it out for living expenditure. Banks have been known to ‘swipe’ such funds to clear or reduce an overdraft, which could leave you with no money for food and bills.
• You have a current account and loan account with same bank. There is insufficient balance to cover all outgoings. Banks often take the monthly transfer to the loan account at the expense of other essential outgoings. Either an overdraft is created, or an existing overdraft is increased by the amount of the transfer, fees and interest charged at the default rate.

Here, appropriation will ensure essential items get paid although it will not affect the bank’s ability to continue making the monthly transfer. Where the same instructions are likely to have to be repeated every month, it is advisable to make clear that your instructions are to be effected every month until further notice.

As long as a bank continues to offer you banking facilities it is obliged to abide by your instructions regardless of the state of the account. The bank can withdraw banking facilities at any time and end its duty to follow appropriation instruction. Although appropriation might be helpful where an internal transfer is being made from a current account to a loan this type of transfer is neither a standing order nor a direct debit, so you cannot simply cancel it. Appropriation cannot be used to stop an internal transfer to a loan account.

Whilst appropriation can be a useful tool to protect money paid into a bank account, it is not a situation that a bank will be prepared to put up with indefinitely. The bank is only likely to accept such instructions for a short time before withdrawing banking facilities altogether. It should, therefore, be seen as a very short-term strategy only and you should open another bank account elsewhere as soon as possible.

Whilst it is possible to give the bank appropriation instructions verbally, written instructions are preferable in case of any later dispute. You should keep a copy of the letter and request an acknowledgement from the bank.

If you are struggling with your debts and want to sort them out, you should contact an advice service with the CLS Quality Mark for advice and help. To find a Quality Marked advice service near you, go to www.advicewirral.net/providers.php"

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

on initial reading of this thread,it appears it could just as well apply to the NTL:TW £10 late payment unlawful charge?.
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...=appropriation

just the first post:read the rest there perhaps.
"zootscoot http://cag-images.co.uk/forum/images...ser_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_188086", true);
Classic Account Customer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 318
http://cag-images.co.uk/forum/images...tation_pos.gif


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2006/08/7.gif Take the campaign from unlawful to illegal?
Is it time to assert our rights a little more forcefully and attempt to show that what the banks are doing is illegal. This surely would give the banks more reasons to act and repay everybody with out them having to take them to court.

This could be done through writing to the Director of Public Prosecutions asking them to review the legality of the banks and whether it would be worth their while taking out a criminal prosecution against the banks or bringing a private prosecution.

I'm sure there is something about criminal convictions in their operating licences?

An outline of the relevant law of theft is below. Do people think it is worth a shot?

S1. Theft Act 1968 a person is guilty of theft if they dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another with the intention to permanently deprive.

Dishonestly –

D is regarded as dishonest if their conduct is dishonest according to the ordinary standards of reasonable honest people and D realised that their conduct was by those standards dishonest. R v Ghosh

This is a question for the jury to determine – Is it likely that reasonable honest people would regard the banks conduct of charging unlawful penalties and refusing to return them on initial request when knowing that the charges are unlawful as dishonest?"


Appropriates

Appropriation is assuming the rights of an owner (s.3 TA). By charging penalties they are assuming the rights of the owner by extracting money from their account.

S3 also includes where a defendant acquired the property innocently a later assumption can amount to theft. This would cover the situation if the banks did not know that the charges were unlawful at the time they took them, when they became aware of them being unlawful, their refusal to return them.

The fact that an owner consents to an appropriation does not prevent the action from amounting to an appropriation (R v Gomez) – Therefore the fact that customers agree to the terms and conditions will not stop the actions of the banks from amounting to an appropriation.

Property

The deducting a sum from a bank account may amount to a thing in action with in the meaning of s.4 TA.

Belonging to another

The banks may argue that the sums deducted lawfully belong to them. However, the legalities on penalty clauses indicate otherwise. Hence the charges have been paid by customers by mistake ie under the mistaken belief that they were lawfully due. Where a person receives property by mistake the property is still regarded as belonging to the giver (s.5(4).

With the intention to permanently deprive

The banks refusal to repay until being dragged through the courts is sufficient evidence in my view that they intended to permanently deprive

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Debit card not credit card, and yes I could apply for 14 billion but I would get 14 billion rejections. My credit rating is poor. Not to mention I have only just moved and about to return the electrol roll form so thats also not accurate yet.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Ask the boffins at NTL to give you an actual breakdown of the £10.00 charge. They won't.

Ask the person you are speaking with to confirm their identity by sending you a "real time" email. Advise them that under consumer contract law it is illegal in that it is a penalty charge which constitutes an unfair term and advise them that you are intent on seeking restitution in the event that they do not waive same - through County Court action if need be.

As far as your bank is concerned they should conform to your request when faced with the same argument and the additional facts / information you have to hand.

There is no such thing as an "unauthorised overdraft". Once a bank authorises (by accepting and processing) a payment from / debit to an account which brings that account into an overdrawn status they, as a party to the contract, have, by their own actions, negated that argument.

One could successfully argue the merits of an "agreed" overdraft on the premise that the bank agreed to conduct the transaction without consulting you (to their benefit, strangely enough) and that in doing so they had, in effect, made a contractual amendment without actually consulting you.

You'd probably be more successful in arguing "abuse of process" or "willful neglect" than "theft" on the part of the bank.

It shouldn't get to that though.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well, so far for the 2 that I'm going after at the moment I am still bogged down in getting to original data from them. They both have 8 days more to respond to the full DPA request.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

By the term "unauthorised" do the banks not infer that it's "previously unauthorised", obviously it's authorised as you say when they allow payments to be processed that take your account into an overdraught. I always took it to read that "you've borrowed money without our prior consent, now we're going to hit you with a charge for it"

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

That's the point. Once they debit your account by the amount they are authorizing it, not you. Their defence would be rational if they were to phone you prior to authorizing the debit to advise you of the charges and ask if you are happy to pay them in the event that any action on their part makes you overdrawn and liable for their charges.

It's not rocket science in this day and age to expect a computer to be able to determine whether there are sufficient funds in an account at any given time.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

handyman, as strange as it might seem, are you sure its not more to do with the fact your credit file has defaults on it?, infact, have you ever even seen a copy of your credit file ?.

after reading through the bank charges sections of the www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk ,it became clear that infact the longer term result of this unlawful charge, was that many , many people were finding out for the very first time that these false defaults the banks were adding were the real problem.

apparently a Default is just as bad as having a CCJ on your file when it comes to anyone checking your credit file , as are getting many searches done on it in a given time, every one gets logged and entered there apparently.

you, and indeed all the readers here, should take a read of all this thread Default hell!!
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ault-hell.html

http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/index.html

Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.insolvencyhelpline.co.uk/...pair-faq.htm#4

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...r-default.html
"

• Assume you have a default marked on your credit file and continue to miss payments. You are then summoned to court and have a CCJ against your name and this is also noted on your credit file BUT, before you appear in court you negotiate with the lender and either pay the debt in full or arrange a deal to pay off a percentage, perhaps 60%-80%
• In such a situation you would think the matter is closed. You were bad but made good in the end NO. Most people don't realise that though the Default will be noted as 'satisfied' on your credit file, the word 'default' WILL NOT DISAPPEAR and it will remain there fora minimum of 6 years
• If however you pay off the debt in full then you are strongly advised to write to the finance company in question and politely ask them to remove the default notice - there is no guarantee that this will work though

The word 'satisfied' looks good in your eyes but in the eyes of a possible lender (mortgage, credit card company etc) it is massively overshadowed by the word 'default'. Any lender will take one look at the fact that you haven't been good at managing your debts in the past (rightly or wrongly) and will likely close the door on you and any future business.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just to let you know first direct (hsbc) has paid back the money that was offered first within 2 days of me returning the signed form.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

you still got the hsbc account florence?

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

yes but I accepted their first offer didn't go for all.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well so far the 2 CC's that I approached,
Company A has failed to provide the info requested under the DPA within 40 days so info comission is now involved.

The other well. let me call them company B. have so far

1) not provided any data older than May 2004 because its stored off site using an old medium and not stored in away that allows them to fall under the DPA... info commissioner is also being contacted about that.

2) In addition I have a letter from them that is amazing in the level of arrogance displayed. Basically "we're entitled to screw you, you agreed to let us do this when you signed the contract. tuff" Nuff said really.
To date the offered just the difference between the charges that I have been able to highlight (prior to discussing the arcaic storage issue with them) with no interested added. Bearing in mind some of these charges were nearly 3 years old, thats 3 years of compound interest they have had in addition already. Still the more they try to dodge and duck this ,more it will cost them to settle...

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

I can testify to this. NTL put a default note on my credit record for £2* (yes thats correct, its not a typo) I only found it after 5 years but by then the damage had been done. I did get them to remove it but I'll never ever sign up with NTL again. Once removed, the indicitive credit score nearly doubled (to just under the top level)

*the £2 was for 2x the £1 charge they were charginf for non DD in those days... I paid off the bill when the account closed and ended the DD. They sent out a bill for the remaining amount (which I'd payed) and £1 for non DD. I refused to pay (the co I worked for routinely wrote that charge off so I assumed (Ha Ha) that NTL would as well.) Next month another bill for £1 + £1 for non-DD again called and asked for it to be written off. Heard nothing else and found out 5 years later that the default was on there.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Just had notification from my Credit card company that they are reducing the normal charge when you forget to pay minmum from £20+ down to £12, the same figure the OFT suggested as 'reasonable' - they have or course increased something to compensate, in this case interest on cash withdrawals IIRC
So they are finally moving in the right direction

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Update on Company A, I just had through all of the data they hold on me, the stack of paper is nearly half an inch thick! At least I only need to submitt 1 info commissioner complaint now.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Scarlett, well done - keep chipping away at them.

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

I just checked my online banking today (Abbey National) and was pleasantly surprised:

That's £780 in refunded charges!

:D

Re: Reclaim Your Bank And Card Charges
 

Well done

Mike