Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

im sure there would be a way to offer this to ntl phone users if thats what they wanted.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

i suppose ntl has such a terrible reputation that they hope everyone will forget after a few months

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

I will put it to you this way. If ntl dont do any kind of "major" investment in their network and expanding their footprint they will have problems in the next few decades. Their current network only has a limited life and as someone else said they not taking advantages of new housing estates, the cost when cabling those is vastly reduced because half of the costs are gone with the housing developers laying their own stuff.

Ntl do have the money if needed but the shareholders chose not to do it, I think that would be more accurate.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Well plenty of ntl managers on 90 days notice any hands on staff yet ?

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Lets put it this way. They could switch to an IPTV system running over ADSL and get coverage over non-cabled areas for a lot less money than it would cost to cable them. Which option do you think Shareholders would go for?

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

I dont care about the shareholders one bit to be frank. They would obviously go for whats cheaper, but would they even sanction adsl rollout, as its still more then the big 0 investment figure they happy with.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

When BT's 21C network is fully operational, they will offer every sub 100 meg BB, TV, VoIP etc over ethernet/Fibre.
Our answer is IPTV over ADSL??? (read;Old twisted pair copper)
We NEED to expand OUR network, not piggy back on someone elses

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Show me that the sums add-up and I'll believe you.

It makes no sense to have more than one "network" when there's always going to be massively excess capacity.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Have I missed something?

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Not quite dude 21CN is experimenting with new access techs but most of it is backbone upgrades and conversion to IP in the BT core.

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

The sums add up better now than they did, but they could either deliver the full service over a CATV network, or nearly there over BT's network and not spend loads building out.

It makes sense, especially if the network is fibre rich, but the bean counters won't like it and ntl et al will have a lot easier time waiting for BT to build out then using the Ofcom enforced loop sharing.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

uk in the 21st century eh? we all use one network built by BT in the future not a single other company will lay cables in our rich country, what a shambles.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Well *if* BT can provide a decent service down their wires why would any company in their right minds spend millions in digging up roads to put down more wires?

They have all seen cable companies p**s money away on their networks and no-one is going to do that again. The only exception could be in new estates with the help of the builders but even that is unlikely.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

well other countries do it, usa verizon is laying fibre when existing copper is in place, I guess verizon dont want to be restricted by buying wholesale service of the owner of that copper.

their seems to be a perception that laying cable=bankruptcy which I dont think is the case if done in a controlled manner.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Are they burying fibre or just stringing it along from lamposts etc.

I think that any form of major works, like burying cables, is too expensive for companies without government assistance.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

no idea how its been done but they rolling out in city areas, one day someone will have to roll out fibre here and I expect it will probably be BT, but I dont think it will be for at least half a decade.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

I would imagine NTL will upgrade the older area's with new fiber/coax before they expand anymore. Places like leicester and cambridge will require a lot of new fiber to replace the existing infrastructer if NTL want to go any further tech wise. (especially Leicester!) The original Leicester cables and structure where just not meant for the stuff NTL is trying to make it do. (it was never designed for digital or broadband even in mind).
With regards to new build area's, I think NTL are nuts to not lay cables in the freshly dug ducts the new home builders have dug. BT still do it. In the mean time, why not use BT wholesale in offnet area's until there are funds to expand the network again.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

monkey2468 do you even think they will upgrade these areas tho?

everyone I have asked directly about it either just laughed or said in more politely it isnt happening because of cost.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

They have been doing upgrades for a month or two, but it has been suspended as it is causing more problems than can be fixed easily.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

It's not all of Leicester, it's mainly LE3 that have the trouble. This side of town Ntl can supply all three products, not very well mind you but that's not down to old cabling (it's all new on this estate) but just poor set top boxes and overloaded UBRs, or was when I was with them.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Its not just to do with the local cabling, it more to do with the way leicester was designed from the headend out over originally. :(

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

yeah aylestone area and outer parts of leics like blaby have digital, but from what shaun says it seems they still suffer poor broadband performance.

I will never know if the broadband is actually better performing in the digital part of leics since my sister ditched ntl when she moved.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

It's not any good here either mate. I live at the back of the LRI by the canal and when we had Ntl both the TV and the BB were up and down like the proverbial whores draws!

As for Blaby, most of it seems to have cable laid in the street (even the estates at the far end where my nan lives) but they won't install green cabs or drops to the houses. What a waste of money. Putting fiber in to let it just sit there.:(

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

As dezzo suggests, most cable in the US is overhead. I don't really understand why they can't do that over here too, they could even rent BT's telegraph poles to save money.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

As far as I know all new wiring etc. needs to be done underground. Even when BT wire up new estates they tend to bury the cables instead of putting in new telegraph poles.

Certainly thats the case round here. I don't know if this is due to any sort of government regulations but if it was it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

I believe that it's what comms companies have to do now, telegraph poles are a no no. Saying that most new estates have ducting put in by the builders, my house (we move din 6 years ago in May) even had Ntl and BT sockets installed on the wall by the builder!

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

Yeah it must be some sort of regulation as it would make financial sense to do it overhead otherwise, and shaun has confirmed what I said, they could cable up new estates at minimal cost by getting the builders to do their job for them.

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

in year time will the name ntl go and become Virgin cabel bb so no your will it stay ntl ?

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

eh? what's that in english?

Re: ALL Virgin / NTL merger discussion
 

:angel: so new users will be new virgins, thats lucky:p: