Re: BNP loses seats
 

Firstly, its not alright to say something like white blah blah and not about Nigerians blah blah. If you bother to read my posts, you'd realise i've been refuting both and never said it was even wrong to say either in the first place.
And when i asked the question about paedophiles, this was the exact response i expected - finally, you've delivered. That response being an attitude of victimisation and unfairness. Even though i'm not making any double standards at all, you've finally decided to take the "its not fair" and "why are you attacking me?" attitude when comments, which can be taken as offensive, are directly related to YOU.
If the first thing anybody said was "whites are likely to be paedophiles", you and many others, would have made the exact same "its so unfair,i shouldnt be victim to this" speech. THAT is why you're complaining about invisible double standards, in order to try and enhance your feelings of victimisation.

Pakistan is the most corrupt country on earth, and theres facts to prove it. Find me facts to prove Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud and white males are more likely to be paedophiles.

Where have i tared policeman with the same brush? I havent. But if you're referring to alis, then in that case you're tarring him and me with the same brush! The very same hypocrisy you're complaining about!

No, you imagine its one rule for me and one rule for you - even when its clearly not, because it propogates your own agenda. Its the exact same tactic the BNP use.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I have no idea what he's on about. Sorry.:shrug:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

So if you have never said that it's wrong to say so, why are we arguing?

My response (about white males being bore likely to be paedophiles)was not made with an attitude of victimization! It's a statement of fact. The fact that I also happen to be a white male is neither here nor there. I don't feel put upon because white males may be seen as the main perpetrators of paedophilia. Why should I?

I am feeling put upon because you seem to be taking offence at my comment about Nigerian fraudsters whilst simultaneously judging the entire police force and one officer in paticular.

What?! If someone started a thread like that I, for one, would agree with it! I do not feel remotely victimised bt the claim that most paedophiles are white males. Why should I? If I did I would just be burying my head in the sand.

and that country is run by pakistanis (irrespective of their class) I will have a bash at it.

You are quite right, it was aliferste:"You see, what i was insinuating was that the police are institutionally racist anyway, therefore no wonder a policeman would come out with a statement like that.....you see now??"
"I dont need to assume anything..........the Macpherson report backs me up :)
Dont think anything had really moved forward since then !"

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Nigerians trying to repair their world image
nigerian gov warning of fraud
'fraud is a way of life for nigerians'
read the second to last sentence in the comment by umberto gui



I have been looking for the white male paedophile bit and as yet I cannot find anything. I am not looking any longer as it is a not very nice search and I dont really want to read any more about it.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

"Vaults" in relation to public houses........it used to be room, as Defiant said, where the darts and pool were. It was usually located in one corner or at the back of the pub. It is not in any way connected to the Google searches 'vaults' in that it was not underground or had curved roof structures !!

The room was generally men only :shocked: very basic decor with no carpet, where the seasoned beer (no lager please !) drinkers congregated. The term is rarely used nowadays. Another term to describe similar rooms would be the 'tap room'.

How either of these terms came into being I cannot determine. I used to spend most of my formative drinking years in 'vaults', but that was forty years ago !!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

For the sake of it i expect.

I didnt take offense to it at all. I questioned it by making clear; merely because Nigerians may disproportionately commit more fraud, does not mean a Nigerian is more likely to commit fraud than the next man - which is what you said.

Ramrod, none of those links prove what i've been arguing: Nigerians are more likely to commit fraud.

When Nigeria was still under British rule, it was run by the British - and it was just as corrupt, infact more so then. Did that make the Nigerians under British rule corrupt? No.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

This is the first time I mentioned the subject:" I'm saying that a fair few Nigerians go in for fraud"
Not that all of them do! I never said that, I have been at great pains not to say that, in fact I have pointed out that it's not the case that they all are fraudsters.

eh? read what you just wrote. say that again?



So you are saying that Nigeria is corrupt!
So what's wrong with me saying that Nigerians seem to go in for a lot of fraud?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

This seems to be an odd conclusion ??......

If Nigeria was corrupt under British rule and is still corrupt now under Nigerian rule, that would seem to prove to me that it is indeed the Nigerians (the constant) who are corrupt :confused:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Not even the last one?
Or how about the fact that the Nigerian government is taking out newspaper ads to warn people about Nigerian fraudsters?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

You failed:

"open your eyes to the possibility that black male Nigerians (for instance) are more likely to commit fraud."
And your copper conversation:
"I asked him if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud here and he instantly replied: "Oh god yes! Nigerians, they're notorious for fraud Just ask any dss fraud investigator!"

I meant arguing against.

I've lived in Nigeria.........yes i am bloody well saying Nigeria is corrupt country.

Theres that victimisation mentality again. NOTHING. And i never said there was. Sheesh.

Thats a pretty poor logic, especially seeing as the Nigerians under British rule werent the corrupt ones. Therefore, the Nigerians in your statement are not a constant. If the above simple, narrow logic is all it takes to prove something to you, then God help us all.
And its the British who instilled corruption in the culture of Nigeria, which is part and parcel of the current state of Nigeria. But thats a whole different debate entirely.

You say as a group, white males are more likely to commit acts of peadophillia.
So going by your logic above, because the British dont advertise warnings to people about white, male, hetrosexual paedophiles then that proves white, male, hetrosexuals as a group arent more likely to commit acts of paedophillia.
And the Nigerian government warn people about Nigerian fraudsters, because Nigerian fraud is a big problem and Nigerians, proportionately commit more fraud. None of this proves that any ethnic group is more likely to commit fraud. Especially, as i've already said; there is no Nigerian ethnic group.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Ok I havent read through this entire thread nor do i plan to.

I dont see what the big deal is, even Labour is losing votes. The fact still remains that not all the voters for the BNP are racist, its a dangerous tag to put on someone. I wouldnt dare call say a Muslim in Britain (MIB Party) racist, even if they were preaching that they should be given priority over the British in every matter.
At the end of the day a vote for the BNP is more about showing displeasure to the Labour gov about its immigration policy. Yes I am getting a little sick and tired of these so called immigrants, I dont for one minute think all of them are undeserving of sanctuary in the UK, but I do think that a high percentage are not fit to live here, not legally entitled to live here and as a result shouldnt be here.
People often see the treatment these immigrants are getting, let me tell you a little story about an old folks home here in my town of Billingham, Teesside shall I?

An old folks home which is approx 1/2 a mile away from my house, I pass it every day. The old people were shipped out, moved to god knows where, probably anywhere that could accomodate them. These old people often had to sell their houses to pay for care in their choice of nursing home. This nursing home had not been re-fitted in the 27 years I have lived in billingham. Now theres no old folk in there, its getting double glazing, completely re-fitted (th ebuilding is just a shell atm). For what? can you guess yet? Yes these so badly done to immigrants are given preference for accomodation there. What I want to know is what happened to the old people, why were they turfed out of their home, why did they HAVE to move?

This is the reason parties like the BNP get votes, this is the reason there is the starting of a backlash against so called "do gooders". This is what makes me physically sick, not only does it disturb me, it appalls me, I think its disgusting and should be stopped. Fine let immigrants into the country but do not put their needs before the needs of the citizens already here, the citizens that have lived here for 60, 70 80 or even 90 years, the citizens that had to sacrifice a hell of a lot in the 1940's that have endured their own fair share of hardships in their lifetimes.

I'm going to quit this rant now, I just hope I have managed to let everyone know how utterly disgusted and appalled I am, this incident has left me numb, I have so much anger over it I dread to think what the racist element will do, I think thye will be more angry than me.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Well, at least THAT is cleared up..........now about that abroad part........

Scotland is DIRECTLY North of England.....and we are in fact part of Britain :)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Get me the name of the Nursing Home please.......or why dont you get involved if you are angry about it....go to your loal tenents group and ask them...you may be surprised by what you hear :)

UM, I wish i knew who the people you are meaning when you say "do gooders"?
Who are you talking about?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

ok OK......lets stop going on about Nigerians..........that fact is ...in this country they do not commit the fraud against us!!


They prey on people from far away ..........people who are greedy and think they can make a fast buck out of someones else misfortune!!!!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Is anyone watching the program about racist policemen on BBC1 now?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

errr...no, I'm sitting in front of my computer replying to you .... ;)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Some people may have a tv in the computer room :rolleyes: or nearby.

The guy on now, bald, bad mouthed and chewing. They actually can't be bothered beeping all the f words but still do c***.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

erm....I didn't say that, the policeman did....


but if we both agree, what are we arguing about?



I never said that, basa did...



No, you are mixing up two different points. A government issuing a warning about the conduct of some of it's people implies that there is a problem with the conduct of some of it's people. The fact that another government dosn't issue a warning does not imply that there isn't a problem, it just means that it isn't being highlited by that government.
Thank you for finally admitting that!
Ah, I think I see why you are getting hot under the collar. Do you think I am coming at this from a genetic point of view? :rofl:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I have my 'puter in the front room so I can watch tv, surf and talk to my wife as well:)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

err...they do you know. DSS, credit card...etc

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Ramrod, i'm bored, tired and depressed. This discussion is coming to an end.

You asked the question "if any ethnic group was more likely to be found commiting fraud".

Nothing, which is why this is ending.

I know, i was speaking to basa.

Obviously, as i've already said.

I've always admitted it and have never denied it.

Considering your wording, is that not obvious - "if any ethnic group was more likely". Thats the point i made at the very beginning and have been talking about ever since.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

lol, me too.:)


If I phrased that Incorrectly please accept my apologies.




You have never admitted it until your last post!



:rofl: How the hell could you think that? My giddy aunt! Anyhoo....I am sorry about the misunderstanding. A very good lesson to be more exact in my phrasing.:)
Still.....it's been fun!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

More good news for the do gooders and more blood on the hands of the goverment when it kicks off

Re: BNP loses seats
 

....but we don't know the full story Defiant. Do you have a link?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Nice Post Timewarrior, Was on the same lines as what I wanted to post. Makes me feel pyshically sick that our elderley folk get shipped out, When they fought for this country in the World War, to allow these immigrants into the country..

Tell me, Who should come first? (Honestly please)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3210605.stm

The full story is this is not the first time they have done this and it wont be the last

Re: BNP loses seats
 

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_831886.html

or

http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html

or

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...portaltop.html

It appears the government is doing it to try and save money.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Jeepers......you seem to have this impression that there is going to be some kind of bloodbath or something :rolleyes:

When what kicks off?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I'm starting to think Defiant was Enoch Powell in a former life.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Has he been proven wrong

Re: BNP loses seats
 

When all the British kick off, Cos' there fed up :rolleyes:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

By doing what?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

What do you think Einstein

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Defiant, you cant come up with any answers to the questions we've put to you, I'm not being rude, but do you know what your talking about? :blah:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I know what's going on around my area yes thanks as for you trying to pretend there's nothing wrong.

I bet that story about the 60 thousand immigrants being allowed to stay cheered you up. You know the one’s that were supposed to be fecked of back home

Re: BNP loses seats
 

D, this is what I mean, I've never stated that I think large numbers of people should be allowed to settle her, I have agreed with you about the fact that we need to tighten the laws, and change the way things are done. That isn't the issue here (well at the start of the thread anyway) it is that you vote for the BNP in the belief that they will change things.

I have repeatedly asked you HOW they intend to do this, what measures they will put in place and what it is that they will do differently to the Labour party, who ARE attempting to change the laws?

You still haven't given us any answers and you repeatedly post things like those quoted above, this doesn't further your cause, and makes people like me question if you know what you are on about or if you are trolling.

Please can you answer the questions I people have repeatedly asked??

edit - an apology would be nice too

Re: BNP loses seats
 

One Labour has done nothing but allow more and more scroungers in

Two shutting the frontdoor for good on scrounger's. Only allowing people in here that can support themselve's or have skill's to add to our work pool

Anything else I'm not that bothered about. Check out their website I just wont this door shut.


PS I think it will kick off in France or Austria before here but we wont be far behind them

EDIT an apology for what. You can't check out website's ?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Defiant......I honestly dont know? What ARE you going to do? moan some more on this forum?


OR THIS


https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2003/10/6.jpg

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Wow you managed to find a picture Einstein very clever but thats a racist thing and I have nothing again'st colour, other countrys etc only this one being flooded by scroungers

Re: BNP loses seats
 

So please tell me how it will "kick off"

Honestly then.....TELL ME!!!!!

WHAT will you DO to have your voice heard???

Ive told you time and time again why people seek asylum in this country.......you are now talking about people and skills coming to this country!

Have you actually got a clue??

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Well here's my 2 pence worth, and I guess I will probably end up with the term racist thrown at me again when that is untrue.

I think as others have said the BNP have gained seats because the majority of people in this country look at people working on the minimum wage and getting by only to see money thrown at people who seek asylum in this country. Many asylum seekers make the extra effort to get to the UK because they are wrongly under the impression that the streets are paved with gold.

I just say things as I see them, and a person scrounging/cheating the system of money that you and I paid in are all the same as far as I am concerned. Now before you all go ands flame me I would like to say that I realise there are genuine cases of people persecuted in other countries, I am personally involved with someone from a country (South Africa) who has seen it from the other side with people being beaten on the streets and families putting their money together to get the younger generation ou of that terrible mess. This person has had their own family memebers arrested and on one occassion apparently tortured and killed by the government, which was apparently a common occurance for anyone who did not stand in line.

BTW this friend is not a scrounger/assylum seeker, she is in this country paying a large amount of money each year to study at university. she does however not agree with the way this government is allowing hoards of people into this country, and she confirmed as a foreigner herself that the opinion is that the UK is paved with gold. She has a relative working for the local authority in London dealing with asylum seekers and she has many stories to tell, including that a large number are actually working in factories using forged National Insurance numbers. It is claimed that the government is turning a blind eye to this practice and they are not worried because of the shortage of factory sweatshop fodder and they are getting the Tax and NI from these employers/employees anyway, so why would they care?

The failure of government in this country to act effieiently in these matters is the main reason that parties like the BNP get votes. I guess many of you noticed that the government kept saying that there was not a problem with asylum seekers, and then turned around and have admitted how bad things are when they could not keep it under wraps any longer.

The namby pamby doo-gooders are playing into the BNP's hands :eeek:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Yay, back on topic, thanks Escapee.

The point I've been trying to make all along is that I can't see what a difference having the BNP in control as they can only work by the same laws that we have in place for our current government.

People like Defiant banging on about closing a door, and keeping them all out is just silly ness, because if it was that easy the surely the current government would bolt the door now and get all the good publicity from it.

There are international/national laws that we must work to (for good reason), I just cant see what the thugs at the BNP will do to change the situation.

I do agree with you and Defiant (thats want I want an apology for, your accusations that it will please me that loads are being let in when I have clearly state that isn't my view all along) that things need to change but noone seems to be able to tell me how (not even the BNPs website) they intend to change things :(

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I think the current and former goverment are actually afraid to close the door because they fear it will cost them votes come election time, wher the BNP would probably gain more votes by offering to do this from people who do not share racist views but are sick and tired of the current situation.

I find it very interesting when these discussions come up in the work place, because the vast majority say they are against these people gaining access to this country. I guess if we were to have a vote it could be the case, but how many of the people gaining access to this country during the last generation or so would vote against letting more people in here I wonder.

I do have sympathy for people who are treated badly, but we can't go around labelling people as "racist" because they are against these issues. I consider the two issues to be entirely separate in my opinion anyway, that's why I was appalled in an earlier discussion on the .com site that I was branded a racist for speaking my views.

As a little side issue to the racist bit, my friend said racist is not such a big issue in South Africa these days but tribal differences are more common.
It's a common label/misconception that you have to be a different colour to be racist!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

No it you that hasn't got a clue. Why dont you sod off to some island and ask all the scrounger's to go with you.

The far right nearly got into power in France not long back. People have had enough of it and prats like you that think we should have every fecker over here.

This ****e is not going away its getting closer because their's more and more being allowed to stay here and its us the taxpayer folking out for it all :2up:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

This is exactly what I mean, you cant give any answers so you resort to name calling. :(

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I'm just answering a wish arse and instead of muttering on all the time about answer like I said before find them out yourself. You think I'm your researcher or something

Re: BNP loses seats
 

:blah: :blah: :blah:

D, so what your saying is you think we should all vote BNP but you don't know why! That'll be the blokes down the pub talking then :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I know why I'll be voting for them and thats to stop the flood of scrounger's taking money which should be going on Schools,NHS,OAP's etc



Anyhow like I've said it happening NOW. Europe are ahead of us for now though ( France and Austria )

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Again I ask you HOW are they going to do this??

Their site says:

"The first thing a BNP government would do is to stop all further mass immigration into Britain"

But there is no mention of HOW, anywhere on their site. Surely if you are voting for them you will want to know how they intend to fix the problem??

http://www.bnp.org.uk/faq.html#immigration

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Well I think that’s self explanatory. More security at ports and those caught KICKED on the first plane out.


Other potential scrounger’s would soon get to hear it’s a waste of time trying to sneak in then

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Your fond of kicking people aren't you! :erm:

The thing you seem to have glossed over is, you can't just stop people coming in, you have to allow them to apply for asylum, that's international law.

International law is there for a reason, and we have to stick by it, that's not the answer to our problems. Like I said earlier, if it was, do you not think that the current government would have done it by now.

These issues are complicated, and need complicated policy's to alter them, not just "were gonna stop them coming it". You need to decide how and create policy's do do what you think is right.

I don't see any forthcoming from the BNP, so I don't see how they will change things!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

International law is being abused everyday like the immigrants queuing up in France, Holland trying to get over here. Mind you I wouldn't like it in those dangerous countries

Re: BNP loses seats
 

My only consolation is that you are not intelligent enough to gain any position of any significance.
:rolleyes:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Please see post 255!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

And lucky I'm not retarded like you. Look around and smell the coffee. Do gooders make me sick :2up:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Phew you must be on your last braincell now. Keeping it to a min with the qwerty keyboard hey.

This is the kind of ****e aliferste amd his mates think is okay,

http://www.sundaypost.com/news5.htm

Take a note of this part,

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I work with people with learning difficulties as well
:rolleyes:

Just shows what kind of person you are that says that as an insult!


YAWN!!

Ill read over the rest of your tripe in the morning

night night! sleep tight :)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

The racist views that people feel the BNP have aside, why not vote Tory instead?
They've got a better record of actually doing things once elected.
They also have the plan to put asylum seekers in an off shore centre so that they can't dissapear, their costs are controlled, it saves money which can be pumped back into public services, and if found to be illegal, they will be deported to their original country, and those genuine asylum seekers will be allowed in with the ability to work and pay taxes just like anyone turning 18 who was born in this country, and if I remember correctly should the situation in their home country become safe within a short period they will be returned home.
They Tories are also the ones who managed to get an agreement with the french to return people who snuck in through the ports (an agreement which labour tore up),

Re: BNP loses seats
 

You work with them !

Re: BNP loses seats
 

People - I'm not all that impressed with some of the insults being thrown around in this thread.

This subject is always going to stir up emotions but everyone is permitted to hold an opinion without being verbally attacked for it.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Yes. There has to be some "do gooders" that do this :)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Actually, this is hilarous as noone in the Tory party even know where this off shore centre actually is or even where it could be.


What is needed is through better education as to the reasons why people seek asylum ........and then in areas where the asylum seekers are placed for there to be good integration programs so that people in the "vaults" are actually informed about what they say.......and then passionate people about the subject like Defiant get more angry about the way that asylum seekers are treated and make a differance.



And then of course vile people like the BNP would not stand a chance as Defiant would be there telling them they are talking rubbish.

But who knows when that will happen :(

Re: BNP loses seats
 

And that Cameron Stout bloke does ot have a clue what he is talking about......."or the hundreds of thousands of Scottish children who are still living in absolute poverty"
People in the UK will never live in "absolute poverty" !

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Putting do gooders all on the same island and letting them give there advice to each other now that would be good. How long before the first murder their I wonder. No matter what anyone tells you your views are not going to change and its your views that are helping to create racists and votes for BNP.

Congratulations.


Christ when you get people like,

http://www.sundaypost.com/Images/cameron_oct26.JPG
http://www.sundaypost.com/news5.htm

That wouldn't say boo to a goose well that says it all. You really don't know just how ****ed of the general public really are. You’re really living in cloud cuckoo land :2up:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

And you do Einstein don’t you. The braincell works overtime with you doesn’t it NOT.

You wont be happy till the whole country is flooded. The economy has gone. Over crowding is everywhere, The NHS has crashed and there’s no more money to be handed out to your friends :rolleyes.

Last but not least theirs riots all over the country :rolleyes:

Wrong their are peope in cardboard boxe's. Something else that prove's your not in the real world

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Go and look up what "absolute" and "relative" poverty mean please!!


Defiant...you are like a little school boy in the playground ......your comments are increasingly troll like and it would actually be a pleasure debating with you , even with the odd insulting comment, if you actually did a little reading in the subject ....

However, you refuse to even move an inch from your stance and throw about idiotic statements about me being a "do gooder" Whatever the hell that is??

If a "do gooder" is someone that is concerned by people in distress ...no matter who and will do anything to alleviate this...then so be it!!

Re: BNP loses seats
 

At least i know what im talking about........I work with people in that situation........not in the real world indeed :rolleyes:

Re: BNP loses seats
 

Ok for the second time this morning I'm stepping in here. Leave out the insults please or I'll lock the thread for 15 minutes to let people cool down.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

GO then GO and help them out. Why the hell should everyone else over here have to. If you think everyone should have to keep putting up with this just because its something YOU agree with then your wrong. Get a one way ticket and help as many as possible cya

Re: BNP loses seats
 

How much would the extra security cost? Bear in mind that we would probably have to process the same number of inquiries, so the processing cost would be similar.

Apart from that, I would class what Cameron says as opinion, not necessarily fact.

One last thing. You say you want to get rid of all the do gooders along with the refugees (or scroungers as you call them), because if you don't, then the NHS and the Economy will crash.

Do you think there would even be an NHS without do gooders?I don't.

Re: BNP loses seats
 

They've suggested one of of the many uninhabited scottish islands.
The idea is to give asylum seekers a safe place to be processed, where they will be fed and given health care they require.
I'm pretty sure you'd agree that we should take in as many genuine asylum seekers as we can (and I'm pretty sure Defiant would agree as from what I see, he's against false claiments not genuine ones)
Once processed, as I said, these people would no longer be asylum seekers, they'd have been given asylum, they are genuine, actually fleeing persecution, people definitely in need.
Those with skills already (such as doctors) can be given the extra training/exams so that they can continue in the same field, those without skills can be given training so that they can enter the work force.

The money spent on trying to hunt down people who have dissapeared within the current system would be saved.
People wouldn't feel threatened by open centers filled with 200 single men being created on their back door.
Genuine asylum seekers would be processed much faster.
False asylum seekers would be processed much faster and returned to where they came from, sending a clear message that Britain will only take genuine aslyum seekers.
The great unwashed will know that these people coming out of the center and entering the work force are not scroungers, but genuine asylum seekers who have gone through hell.

Why do you scoff at such a suggestion?

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I think the term do-gooder has a different meaning to many of us!

I am not against anyone who collects for charity or has feelings towards people who have been or are receiving harsh treatment, but in my mind the ones that I class as do-gooders are the ones that have their blinkers on and are only looking at helping a certain group of underdog.

The people that I consider to be do-gooders usually pick on one particular group and concentrate all their energy and emotion in that direction, in most cases totally ignoring the plight of other groups including their own.
I have allways beleived in the saying that charity starts at home, and I admit that I never give money to charities that distribute it to foreign countries.
I suppose I will be labelled as a nasty person, but I think in many cases money is thrown at them to assist without looking at the root of their problem.

However much we all disagree, we can not get away from the fact that mnay of the asylum seekers especially the bogus ones make a lot of effort to make it the last little stretch to the UK.

I just wish I had a couple of empty houses that I could rent out for asylum seekers because a local council is paying almost double the going rate to rent properties for them! (FACT)

Re: BNP loses seats
 

I always vote Tory:)

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Yea....cya :rolleyes:

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I certainly dont scoff at it in theory. BUT the tories basically stuck this idea into there speeches as a vote winner as they know it is the one topic that everyone gets heated up about.
So when they go to this island......that doesnt exist by the way....there are reasons why islands in Scotland have noone living on them...... and start building houses and medical centres etc....and what will happen???? Defiant will moan about all the money being spent on them up there.

What money should be spent on is education of people in Defiants position as all he sees is Asylum Seekers getting more than him. Possibly if he was a bit more educated he would have a bit more compassion.

To be honest I dont think Defiant would agree about even people in genuine need......I have told him countless examples of what has happened to people coming to this country and why they have been branded "bogus" and he still refuses to move his stance.

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Its just a shame that we never actually discuss any other groups that are in need? Why is that? is it because the media dont make a massive thing about it????? Why is homelessness on the agenda and in the Tory and Labour speeches?

Because its not a vote winner thats why!

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I don't have to change my position I'm educated enough to realise whats happening. I think its you that needs to go back to night school. Math's may help you for starter's.

I think your blind to whats really happening because you don't care about this country

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I think you'll find it's more than just an attempt to win votes, especially considering much of their financial plans rely on the savings made.

There are many suitable islands which exist (not quite sure why you said the scottish islands don't).
An island which is unable to sustain farmers etc could still sustain a processing center, even if supplies have to be shipped in each month!
Running a single center would be much cheaper and more effective than the current system of hotels etc.

Rather than assuming things about Defiant, lets ask him.
Defiant, would you moan about what the tories have planned?
Personally, I feel that as a civilised nation we have a duty to assist as many genuine asylum seekers as we can (that means less than would be a burden on our nation's finances etc)

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I'll go with that yes but I think thew most important thing to do next is to let the world know were not the mug's everyone seems to think we are. Surly then only true asylum seekers would come here. We've got to be taugh to be kind

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Exactly, and from what I've seen of the Tory plan, the idea would be any asylum seekers found on the mainland would be shipped to the processing center.
Failed asylum seekers would be sent packing.
Genuine asylum seekers would know all they had to do is report to customs or a police station and will then be moved to the processing center.
There wouldn't be the chance of benifits, or the chance of dissapearing within the system.
That'd be a stronger deterrant than what we have now.

We need to say "If you a genuine we want to help, if you aren't don't even bother"

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What savings? Someone, prolly Defiant, mentioned 1.3 Bn a year, that wouldn't keep the national health going for a week let alone the spending plans of the Torys and the like.

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Thats what they know of. Who knows how many have false documents to claim

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Whatever extra security you put into the system, people will manage to bypass it.

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I'm one for ID cards myself. I have nothing to hide after all

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I think what you see and what i see are two entirely different situations!

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Is there a thread running on that?
It would be nice to debate with you on another topic entirely for a change
:argue:

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no, pleeeze don't, you'll get ramrod and graham started again :disturbd: ;) :D

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I'm with you on that one, wheres Graham when you need him ;)

edit - you two beat me to it :eek:

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Ditto. I would like to see ID cards introduced. I remember having a little arguement with Graham about it...

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Graham and I don't agree on much but we do agree about ID cards ... I'm dead against them. For a start, illegal immigrants won't have them because they're illegal. But there are already illegal immiigrants in the UK without passports, driving licences, NI numbers, etc etc etc ... and that doesn't stop them working on fruit farms etc.

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Surely it would be easier to spot the difference between illegals and legals if the illegals didn't have ID cards ? Also the assylum seekers who overstay will be spotted easier as their ID cards will either state when their leave date is or can be checked through their ID number.

I just can't see the harm in it. If it allows the police to check peoples real identity wheres the loss of civil liberties in that ?

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I think we should have it for our civil liberties. We have people pretending to be us committing fraud (it’s happened to me) and like I say if you have nothing to hide then where’s the harm

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Aye, its always the criminal who seems to complain that we are infringing their civil liberties. Never the poor granny whos scared to go outside after dark.

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Agreed, I was always against ID cards but the current situation has changed my view entirely.

The food industry would collapse in the UK if they did not have the illegal immigrants working for them, these people often use false NI numbers and the government turn a blind eye because they dont give a toss as long as they are getting the NI and Tax from it.

If they clamped down the food industry would have a big problem and the government know it!

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Sounds like tabloid nonsense that, that the whole UK food industry would collapse if those who employe fruit pickers had to pay them a decent wage.

You seem to be campaigning for the continuation of exploiting cheap labour in our country ? So let me get it right, no id cards for you because you want to keep people working for a couple of quid a day illegally, fair enough.

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'Those who have done no wrong need have no fear' is not an argument in favour of anything; it's a poor excuse for a whinge put forward by those without the wit or intelligence to argue their point based on the issues. Such people prefer cheap innuendo and insults rather than well-reasoned debate.

It is extremely cynical of you to insuinuate that those that disagree with you on this issue must have something to hide, or be a criminal in some way. I might just as easily accuse you of being a deranged despot with unhealthy fantasies about imposing your ideas on other people. I don't do that, because I find it quite believable that you have arrived at your opinion by thinking about it and deciding you genuinely believe it to be for the best. I would be grateful if you would extend the same simple courtesy to those of us who disagree with you.

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DId you click the wrong quote button cos I can't see how thats aimed at what I said.

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Okay you have nothing to hide and your not a criminal then so what possible harm would it cause you!

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Please read my post again.

I said that I "was" against ID cards but my opinion has "now" changed, meaning that I agree that it would help the current situation.

ie: No card and out you go!

I have contact with someone dealing with asylum seekers and illegal immigrants in a London borough, and they are saying that these people working with false NI details are far more widespread than any of us imagine. On the other hand I know two people (one very well) that are making a mint from renting houses out to local authorities for asylum seekers where the local authority is paying twice the going rate for the rent.

I have not seen that claim in the news or the newspapers, but then again I may be wrong. I am not in favour of importing cheap labour into the country I am all for a fair wage for people who are allready resident here.

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Defiant used the immortal phrase 'those who have done no wrong...' in the next post you agreed with him and observed that people who complain their civil liberties were being infringed seem to be criminals.

I was generally having a go at the notion that you can only object to ID cards if you are a criminal (which is what you said) or have done something wrong (which is what Defiant said, and how I began my post).

My apologies if I have entirely misunderstood you or appear to have victimised you ... praps you could clarify, do you think it is possible for a law-abiding citizen of the UK to have honest. well founded objections to having an ID card (whether you agree with their objections or not)?