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-   -   Reform UK's chronicles (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33713145)

papa smurf 22-04-2025 12:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195149)
Well, as you seem to be so sure of yourself, why don’t you just tell us?

Don’t worry, Hugh, it’s just a rhetorical question. I know you don’t have the answer.
I guess somewhere between 0-73

Hugh 22-04-2025 13:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195149)
Well, as you seem to be so sure of yourself, why don’t you just tell us?

Don’t worry, Hugh, it’s just a rhetorical question. I know you don’t have the answer.
Actually, I do - it’s a number less than 1…

Pretty sure the ”Business Surgery" he held on January 24th doesn’t count, as he wasn’t dealing with queries/constituents’ problems…

Remember when he lied about receiving advice from the Speaker’s Office about not holding Surgeries?

TheDaddy 22-04-2025 15:11
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195142)
That would be a disaster for Reform.

---------- Post added at 11:58 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

@TheDaddy

My criticism is that you are damning Farage for abstract matters; matters not of substance. His task is to convince voters that (all in good time) he has sensible policies to put the economy to rights and then explain how he can deliver them.

The main parties cannot deliver sensible policies as we've seen. All this @Russ type stuff, born out of blind hatred for anything right of the political spectrum is more emotion and less substance. After all @Russ regards me, a card carrying (disappointed Conservative) as something akin to ****.

One thin Farage wants is a low tax model for the economy that drives economic growth through investment. And this net-zero scam just has to be stopped. Farage is for that.


How can he be trusted when everything he promised failed to come about? People have short memories if they fall for his act again.

Sephiroth 22-04-2025 15:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36195181)
How can he be trusted when everything he promised failed to come about? People have short memories if they fall for his act again.
There is nothing significant in Farage saying he'll leave the UK if Brexit fails. Anyway, it hasn't failed yet - there's lot's more to do and achieve.

TheDaddy 22-04-2025 15:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195184)
There is nothing significant in Farage saying he'll leave the UK if Brexit fails. Anyway, it hasn't failed yet - there's lot's more to do and achieve.
When, how much more time is it going to take, a third of the people that voted for it are dead, what's it going to take, for them all to go extinct?

Sephiroth 22-04-2025 15:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36195186)
When, how much more time is it going to take, a third of the people that voted for it are dead, what's it going to take, for them all to go extinct?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...arenowdeceased

Quote:
You asked
Please could you provide the following information: the number of people who voted to leave the European Union in the 2016 referendum who are now deceased.

We said
Thank you for your enquiry.

Since the referendum was conducted by secret ballot, the identities of those who voted either way are unknown. Consequently, we have no way of determining how many people who voted for Brexit are now deceased.
Again lack of substance because you are assuming that sufficient numbers of Leave voters were old enough to die.

Do please try and provide substance rather than let your anti-Brexit sentiment affect the validity of your posts.

Farage's task, if he wins the GE, will be to make Brexit a success. This will involve a pragmatic approach to the EU without bending over (as in fisheries). It will also involve a practical approach to the USA - where Trump will likely no longer be president (he's on a failure path right now anyway). I hope that Farage does not get into deeper bed with Trump - just play it sensibly.

1andrew1 22-04-2025 17:40
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195188)

Farage's task, if he wins the GE, will be to make Brexit a success.
How many more PMs will it take for you to realise that's simply impossible?

TheDaddy 22-04-2025 17:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195188)


Again lack of substance because you are assuming that sufficient numbers of Leave voters were old enough to die.

Do please try and provide substance rather than let your anti-Brexit sentiment affect the validity of your posts.

Farage's task, if he wins the GE, will be to make Brexit a success. This will involve a pragmatic approach to the EU without bending over (as in fisheries). It will also involve a practical approach to the USA - where Trump will likely no longer be president (he's on a failure path right now anyway). I hope that Farage does not get into deeper bed with Trump - just play it sensibly.
Don't try and lecture me about substance when the man you're defending has none and no I wasn't assuming anything, iirc the third figure actually came from The Economist earlier in the month from an article titled Zombie Politics about how the two main parties in this country are catering mainly for dead people.

Sephiroth 22-04-2025 19:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36195193)
Don't try and lecture me about substance when the man you're defending has none and no I wasn't assuming anything, iirc the third figure actually came from The Economist earlier in the month from an article titled Zombie Politics about how the two main parties in this country are catering mainly for dead people.
That article ( https://archive.ph/2025.04.11-090954...itish-politics ) is highly skewed in favour of Remain.

Mr K 22-04-2025 20:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195195)
That article ( https://archive.ph/2025.04.11-090954...itish-politics ) is highly skewed in favour of Remain.
Think you'll find the current state of the UK is 'highly skewed in the favour of remain'.
You were all warned, so can't blame politicians...

papa smurf 22-04-2025 20:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36195201)
Think you'll find the current state of the UK is 'highly skewed in the favour of remain'.
You were all warned, so can't blame politicians...
But we are out so remaining isn't an option

Sephiroth 22-04-2025 20:47
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36195201)
Think you'll find the current state of the UK is 'highly skewed in the favour of remain'.
You were all warned, so can't blame politicians...
Yes - I've seen the stats. I find it interesting that Starmer didn't add rejoin to his election pledges.

Anyway, now's not the time as they're in a huge mess which we would then have to pay into. We have enough mess of our own.

Paul 22-04-2025 21:17
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36195186)
a third of the people that voted for it are dead
I doubt that, where is your evidence for this ?

Russ 23-04-2025 08:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Great to see Reform celebrating St George’s Day.

Strange how they were silent on Saints David, Andrew and Patrick’s Days.

Very telling of their attitude.

1andrew1 23-04-2025 09:24
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195215)
Great to see Reform celebrating St George’s Day.

Strange how they were silent on Saints David, Andrew and Patrick’s Days.

Very telling of their attitude.
I just don't know where Reform UK stand these days.

They seem to be wanting to undo all of Thatcher's legacy by nationalisation and one of their people was in the press recently advocating for reparations to be paid to our former colonies.

They seem to be making policy up on the hoof.

Russ 23-04-2025 09:32
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
You're giving them far too much credit.

They're usually (DISCLAIMER: please note the word "usually") the thick people who think Britain and England are the same.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 09:56
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195216)
I just don't know where Reform UK stand these days.

They seem to be wanting to undo all of Thatcher's legacy by nationalisation and one of their people was in the press recently advocating for reparations to be paid to our former colonies.

They seem to be making policy up on the hoof.
The problem is that Thatcher's legacy has unwound. I never approved of here denationalisation back in the 90s. I could foresee what would happen, and did happen. The water companies illustrate it perfectly - how foreign majors bought Fred out, then asset stripped the companies into huge debts.

Farage understands that. Though where he's gonna find the the money for re-nationalisation other than be borrowing it is beyond me. Perhaps grow the economy first.

Chris 23-04-2025 10:04
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195218)
The problem is that Thatcher's legacy has unwound. I never approved of here denationalisation back in the 90s. I could foresee what would happen, and did happen. The water companies illustrate it perfectly - how foreign majors bought Fred out, then asset stripped the companies into huge debts.

Farage understands that. Though where he's gonna find the the money for re-nationalisation other than be borrowing it is beyond me. Perhaps grow the economy first.
There are ways and means, c.f. Stephen Byers and Railtrack.

1andrew1 23-04-2025 11:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195218)
The problem is that Thatcher's legacy has unwound. I never approved of here denationalisation back in the 90s. I could foresee what would happen, and did happen. The water companies illustrate it perfectly - how foreign majors bought Fred out, then asset stripped the companies into huge debts.

Farage understands that. Though where he's gonna find the the money for re-nationalisation other than be borrowing it is beyond me. Perhaps grow the economy first.
I think that's the crux of the problem for Reform UK. If they're serious about winning, their policies like the £20k tax free allowance need to be costed. Stating you want economic growth is one thing, it doesn't make it happen.

Damien 23-04-2025 11:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform is the same as the Lib Dems. They never need to budget anything because they know they won't win. 20k tax-free allowance isn't going to happen.

I am surprised Labour, who you think are naturally predisposed to nationalisation, haven't understood it would probably be quite popular now. They're still chasing an imaginary voter from 10-15 years ago who is wary of government ownership of anything and believes in privatisation unreservedly. In reality, I think voters are far more sceptical of private multinational companies and would welcome government ownership of utilities and rail. It would be an act of populism to give these things 'back to the people' from the hands of foreign ownership, which Farage and the left have understood but the main parties have not.

Labour is chasing a moderate free-market Thatcher voter from the early 2000s, which doesn't exist, and the Tories are chasing a British Trump voter, which doesn't exist.

Do either of them know who their voters are?

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 11:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195223)
I think that's the crux of the problem for Reform UK. If they're serious about winning, their policies like the £20k tax free allowance need to be costed. Stating you want economic growth is one thing, it doesn't make it happen.
You're absolutely right. The Tories failed, Labour is failing (and those lying toads promised that their plans were "fully costed").

A wise Reform leader would be lining up the ducks right now, costing the plans in conjunction with industry and finance leaders so that well in advance of the GE, they will know where to borrow from to kick start it all.


---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36195224)
Reform is the same as the Lib Dems. They never need to budget anything because they know they won't win. 20k tax-free allowance isn't going to happen.

<SNIP>

Labour is chasing a moderate free-market Thatcher voter from the early 2000s, which doesn't exist, and the Tories are chasing a British Trump voter, which doesn't exist.

Do either of them know who their voters are?
Good point. The British voter is fickle and will vote emotionally. Brexit was an example, and chucking out the Tories was another.

Therefore, at this point, Reform cannot be ruled out. Imo.

Chris 23-04-2025 11:55
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36195224)
Reform is the same as the Lib Dems. They never need to budget anything because they know they won't win. 20k tax-free allowance isn't going to happen.

I am surprised Labour, who you think are naturally predisposed to nationalisation, haven't understood it would probably be quite popular now. They're still chasing an imaginary voter from 10-15 years ago who is wary of government ownership of anything and believes in privatisation unreservedly. In reality, I think voters are far more sceptical of private multinational companies and would welcome government ownership of utilities and rail. It would be an act of populism to give these things 'back to the people' from the hands of foreign ownership, which Farage and the left have understood but the main parties have not.

Labour is chasing a moderate free-market Thatcher voter from the early 2000s, which doesn't exist, and the Tories are chasing a British Trump voter, which doesn't exist.

Do either of them know who their voters are?
The privatisations of the 1980s were sold on the premise that the shares would be owned by Sid (assuming anyone ever told him). Middle Class Thatcherites all bought in to the idea that these privatisations were true public ownership because Joe Public was buying all the shares.

That wasn’t entirely true in the 1980s, and it certainly isn’t true now.

Russ 23-04-2025 12:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195225)
Therefore, at this point, Reform cannot be ruled out. Imo.
You summed it up with..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195225)
A wise Reform leader
In the main, Reform voters aren't going to be swayed by a "wise" leader; that's who they've been trained to rebel against. After all, politics needed a 'reform', right? Something different from the "usual" politics.

This is why former investment banker Farage is trying to portray himself as "one of us". Many Reform fans are attracted to knee-jerk ideas ("send them all back" etc), and a wise leader will stay away from these, thereby marginalising the traditional Reform voter.

As Damien says, all the political ambition of the Lib Dems. What does make reform different (although still no more likely to win an election) is their ability to "worry" the main parties, in the way UKIP's rise in popularity pushed Cameron into offering the referendum

Paul 23-04-2025 15:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36195227)
The privatisations of the 1980s were sold on the premise that the shares would be owned by Sid.
Sid owned them for a while, then sold them on.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 15:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195229)
You summed it up with..



In the main, Reform voters aren't going to be swayed by a "wise" leader; that's who they've been trained to rebel against. After all, politics needed a 'reform', right? Something different from the "usual" politics.

This is why former investment banker Farage is trying to portray himself as "one of us". Many Reform fans are attracted to knee-jerk ideas ("send them all back" etc), and a wise leader will stay away from these, thereby marginalising the traditional Reform voter.

As Damien says, all the political ambition of the Lib Dems. What does make reform different (although still no more likely to win an election) is their ability to "worry" the main parties, in the way UKIP's rise in popularity pushed Cameron into offering the referendum
As I said, voters are fickle. They might choose Reform on the basis of not Labour nor Conservative.

My point was that Reform would need to have pre-sorted out the HOW of getting the economy right within a reasonable timeframe taking into account the forces that bear on the matter. This might gain them votes from people who are not fickle, but the "anyone else" vote is what they're after.

Actually I don't thin that we are in disagreement on this.

1andrew1 23-04-2025 17:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36195224)
Reform is the same as the Lib Dems. They never need to budget anything because they know they won't win. 20k tax-free allowance isn't going to happen.

I am surprised Labour, who you think are naturally predisposed to nationalisation, haven't understood it would probably be quite popular now. They're still chasing an imaginary voter from 10-15 years ago who is wary of government ownership of anything and believes in privatisation unreservedly. In reality, I think voters are far more sceptical of private multinational companies and would welcome government ownership of utilities and rail. It would be an act of populism to give these things 'back to the people' from the hands of foreign ownership, which Farage and the left have understood but the main parties have not.

Labour is chasing a moderate free-market Thatcher voter from the early 2000s, which doesn't exist, and the Tories are chasing a British Trump voter, which doesn't exist.

Do either of them know who their voters are?
I think as a "challenger brand" like the LibDems and Greens, Reform UK can move a lot more quickly on policy matters. The Conservatives and Labour mull things over more; because they've got more at stake and are likely more bureaucratic.

Pierre 23-04-2025 17:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195242)
They might choose Reform on the basis of not Labour nor Conservative.
That's how and why, I voted last GE.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 17:21
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195253)
I think as a "challenger brand" like the LibDems and Greens, Reform UK can move a lot more quickly on policy matters. The Conservatives and Labour mull things over more; because they've got more at stake and are likely more bureaucratic.
The reason (in my eyes at least) why "Reform UK can move a lot more quickly on policy matters" is that they are seen to represent a reasonable policy path. They are not zealots for Green stuff, nor Remain supporting like the Lib-Dems. The public understand this and, if the UK is still up shit creek come the next GE, Reform are likely the only party to come forward with a paddle.

Currently Labour are lying toads implementing bad policies. The Tories are a failed brand (I do my bit to try and bring them into some sort of sensibility), but they stand more chance than Labour of getting some sort of message across to the fickle public.

For what my opinion is worth, if Labour stay on their present heading, Net-Zero will be their downfall and the Tories' only hope will be to jump early onto to stop-net-zero track.

Russ 23-04-2025 19:11
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195255)
They are not zealots for Green stuff, nor Remain supporting like the Lib-Dems.
No, just zealots for blaming everything on immigrants.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 19:57
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195264)
No, just zealots for blaming everything on immigrants.
How about Labour, Tories and illegal immigrants then?

1andrew1 23-04-2025 20:01
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195264)
No, just zealots for blaming everything on immigrants.
And Remain is now remain outside the EU and the LibDems did not have Rejoin in their manifesto.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 20:04
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195268)
And Remain is now remain outside the EU and the LibDems did not have Rejoin in their manifesto.
Like I say, they (not Reform) are lying toads.

1andrew1 23-04-2025 20:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195269)
Like I say, they (not Reform) are lying toads.
I'm afraid your inherent adoration of all things Farage is preventing you from seeing the wood from the trees here.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 20:26
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195270)
I'm afraid your inherent adoration of all things Farage is preventing you from seeing the wood from the trees here.
Not at all. I am being totally objective. When you compare Farage with Starmer, there is no contest. Starmer is an outright liar, Farage speaks the truth. Kemi is not a liar, but she leads a bruised party of (in the main) useless nodding heads. The Lib-Dems are not liars (yet) but have too much liking for the net-zero agenda.

"Inherent adoration" is plain wrong. Admiration, maybe. But I still carry the Conservative card and did not vote Reform.

Russ 23-04-2025 20:42
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195267)
How about Labour, Tories and illegal immigrants then?
I don’t recall Labour blaming everything on illegal immigrants .

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 20:58
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195272)
I don’t recall Labour blaming everything on illegal immigrants .
I recall Labour saying they'd smash the gangs and do away with housing the boat people in hotels.

Hugh 23-04-2025 20:59
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195271)
Not at all. I am being totally objective. When you compare Farage with Starmer, there is no contest. Starmer is an outright liar, Farage speaks the truth. Kemi is not a liar, but she leads a bruised party of (in the main) useless nodding heads. The Lib-Dems are not liars (yet) but have too much liking for the net-zero agenda.

"Inherent adoration" is plain wrong. Admiration, maybe. But I still carry the Conservative card and did not vote Reform.
Your view on your being "totally objective" is subjective, and therefore is oxymoronic.

Russ 23-04-2025 21:07
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195273)
I recall Labour saying they'd smash the gangs and do away with housing the boat people in hotels.
Not quite the same as blaming housing shortages on migrants is it?

Chris 23-04-2025 21:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195271)
I am being totally objective.
It is objectively funny that you said this with (what I assume to be) a straight face.

Sephiroth 23-04-2025 21:11
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195275)
When?
During the election campaign.

Russ 23-04-2025 21:13
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195277)
During the election campaign.
Edited

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36195276)
It is objectively funny that you said this with (what I assume to be) a straight face.
I was wondering what happened to Graham…

1andrew1 23-04-2025 21:34
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36195276)
It is objectively funny that you said this with (what I assume to be) a straight face.
Indeed, all humans are biased.

Russ 25-04-2025 06:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
So there were 4 council by-elections yesterday.

Reform won 0.

Interestingly that’s now 240 council by-elections since the general election, with just 14 seats won by Reform.

Lib Dems-level results again.

Sephiroth 25-04-2025 13:22
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195384)
So there were 4 council by-elections yesterday.

Reform won 0.

Interestingly that’s now 240 council by-elections since the general election, with just 14 seats won by Reform.

Lib Dems-level results again.
Reform won Marine (Arun). Their vote in the other three was in the 20% range along with the others.

Paul 25-04-2025 17:38
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195384)
So there were 4 council by-elections yesterday.

Reform won 0.
You may want to recheck that, it does look like they won 1.

Quote:
Marine (Arun) Council By-Election Result:

RFM: 26.0% (New)
LDM: 25.2% (-2.8)
LAB: 20.1% (-1.1)
CON: 16.3% (-1.3)
GRN: 9.8% (New)
IND: 2.6% (New)

No IND (-33.4) as previous.

Reform GAIN from Independent.
https://www.markpack.org.uk/174621/l...l-by-election/

Russ 25-04-2025 17:42
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Ah right, 1.

1.

OLD BOY 25-04-2025 19:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195191)
How many more PMs will it take for you to realise that's simply impossible?
That is your highly negative outlook, so why are we surprised?

---------- Post added at 19:53 ---------- Previous post was at 19:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195272)
I don’t recall Labour blaming everything on illegal immigrants .
No. From my recollection they showed every sign of welcoming them. They trotted out ‘’policies’ to replace the Rwanda scheme that anyone with a brain knew would not work. Now they are paying the French to issue these people with life jackets as they leave rather than turning them back. Great initiative, Kier!

Russ 25-04-2025 21:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36195427)

No. From my recollection they showed every sign of welcoming them.
Really? From my recollection, they deported more illegals in 6 months than the Tories did in the previous 12 months

Sephiroth 25-04-2025 22:37
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195432)
Really? From my recollection, they deported more illegals in 6 months than the Tories did in the previous 12 months

Might this below be the truth around the government's boast:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyw8jw11jwo

Quote:
Sir Keir Starmer has highlighted his government efforts to tackle illegal immigration, saying: "We've returned more than 24,000 people who have no right to be here."

He was speaking at an international summit in London aimed at tackling people-smuggling gangs.

The Home Office has also posted a video on X, showing people being escorted onto planes by immigration enforcement officials, with the words: "we have removed more than 24,000 people".

But the claim is misleading. The government's latest figures show that only 6,339 of these were "enforced returns"., external The majority were "voluntary returns" - and a significant number of these happen without the government's direct involvement or even knowledge.

Russ 25-04-2025 22:46
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
So it matters more to you how someone returns rather than the fact they actually returned?

I sense an agenda…

Sephiroth 26-04-2025 08:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195441)
So it matters more to you how someone returns rather than the fact they actually returned?

I sense an agenda…
What matters to me is that the government's misleading spin hides the facts that Reform UK are accurately reporting. And you've fallen for the government's spin.

1andrew1 26-04-2025 09:14
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195440)

Might this below be the truth around the government's boast:

[URL="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyw8jw11jwo"]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyw8jw11jwo[/URL
How does this figure compare to last year?On its own it does not mean much.

Itshim 26-04-2025 10:09
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195451)
What matters to me is that the government's misleading spin hides the facts that Reform UK are accurately reporting. And you've fallen for the government's spin.
so true, following trumps lead perhaps

Sephiroth 26-04-2025 11:20
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform simply want to stop the boats. The reported bussing of people to Calais ahead of the summer is a grim warning to us that we will be importing both sides of the Ethiopian warring groups (there will be factional fighting); goodness knows how many trained terrorists/jihadists; many indented people who'll have to turn to crime to pay their gangmasters, etc.

Russ 26-04-2025 11:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Not a single person on a boat has put peoples mortgages up, underfunded the NHS or spaffed £32bn to their mates for faulty PPE.

papa smurf 26-04-2025 11:46
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Andrea Jenkyns says she's 'smear campaign survivor' as complaint dismissed
Controversy had risen over whether the Reform candidate could claim to live in Lincolnshire

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/n...smear-10134276

Sephiroth 26-04-2025 11:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195461)
Not a single person on a boat has put peoples mortgages up, underfunded the NHS or spaffed £32bn to their mates for faulty PPE.
Er-
- They get priority medical treatment from the underfunded NHS;
- They get priority free dental treatment not available to most people;
- They are housed in conditions well superior to the homeless UK people;
- They get 3 meals a day and AFAIK, catered to their preferred cuisine;
- They have been filmed singing Jihadi songs;
- They are here to milk our benefits system at "best";
- They are here to commit crimes at worst.

Your mortgages point is a red herring and the "spaffed £32 bn" point shows that you really don't understand the threat facing the UK.

Reform UK fully understands and points this out.

Russ 26-04-2025 14:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Nothing I've said is a red herring, and for spaffing £32bn just see Bullshitting Boris and his cronies from the start of the pandemic. Not to mention the £5bn of that Sunak decided to write off.

And they're singing hurty songs? How quaint. Just ignore them, I do.

And the benefits and crimes? I agree, I demand ALL criminals and benefit scroungers be white British born people ONLY.

By the way, illegal immigrants can apply for priority care. Doesn't mean they'll get it.

Neither do they get housed in 'superior' conditions. Why? Because...and get this.... they're illegal.

I'm sure reform are aware of all this and selectively ignore it.

Itshim 26-04-2025 17:45
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195464)
Er-
- They get priority medical treatment from the underfunded NHS;
- They get priority free dental treatment not available to most people;
- They are housed in conditions well superior to the homeless UK people;
- They get 3 meals a day and AFAIK, catered to their preferred cuisine;
- They have been filmed singing Jihadi songs;
- They are here to milk our benefits system at "best";
- They are here to commit crimes at worst.

Your mortgages point is a red herring and the "spaffed £32 bn" point shows that you really don't understand the threat facing the UK.

Reform UK fully understands and points this out.
Don't give them anything at all, that will stop them

Russ 26-04-2025 23:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Great to know that if you’re a a decent working class person Reform are happy to erode your employment rights.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rs-rights-vote

Still, let’s get rid of those boat people eh?

Pierre 26-04-2025 23:49
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195530)
Great to know that if you’re a a decent working class person Reform are happy to erode your employment rights.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rs-rights-vote

Still, let’s get rid of those boat people eh?
Well let’s look at it.

Quote:
banning exploitative zero-hours contracts and day-one access to sick pay, they have voted to deny millions basic protections at work.
How is not having day one access to sick pay..”exploitative”? Why should any employer have to provide that? It’s totally unreasonable.

Paul 27-04-2025 03:08
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
I'm curious how not banning zero hours contracts is "denying a basic protection" ?

Quote:
Despite the lack of guaranteed hours, zero-hours workers still have the same statutory rights as other employees, including the right to the National Minimum Wage and statutory annual leave.
Also, isnt it really easy to get around anyway ?
Just offer a 5 minute a week contract, perfectly legal as far as I can tell.

Sephiroth 27-04-2025 11:00
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36195530)
Great to know that if you’re a a decent working class person Reform are happy to erode your employment rights.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...rs-rights-vote

Still, let’s get rid of those boat people eh?
The fact that you pray in aid the Morning Star speaks volumes.

The unions will (once again) bring Britain too its knees, if they get their way.

Itshim 27-04-2025 11:31
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195536)
The fact that you pray in aid the Morning Star speaks volumes.

The unions will (once again) bring Britain too its knees, if they get their way.
Unions have long been the main reason that British industry is such a mess.

OLD BOY 27-04-2025 13:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195532)
Well let’s look at it.



How is not having day one access to sick pay..”exploitative”? Why should any employer have to provide that? It’s totally unreasonable.
Agreed, and zero hours contracts offer people a flexibility that will now be denied to them. They also offer employers the flexibility they need for work that is very variable in its requirements for labour. By making these contracts subject to a minimum number of hours per week, employers will instead offer overtime to full timers and the people benefiting with the flexibility of zero hours contracts through family commitments or whatever will lose out.

It’s Labour’s warped thinking on workers’ rights that Farage is calling out, and people with logic can see that he’s right.

If people want regular earnings, they should be applying for part time or full time contracts.

---------- Post added at 13:03 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

The Conservatives are polling so badly that they are now seriously contemplating a coalition with Reform UK. As Farage has ruled that out, it is clear that the two parties will be standing separately at the next election, but of course if Reform is only able to get into power or make its decisions stick with some sort of accommodation with the Conservatives, things could change.

Unless voters change their minds radically before the next election, I can see Farage becoming our next Prime Minister in the biggest political upset in this country I have experienced.

One of the Conservatives’ biggest donors has now transferred his allegiance to Reform UK with a donation of £1m and he expects others to follow. Expect also an increasing number of defections from Conservatives to Reform in the meantime, which will boost Reform’s credibility with the public.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...tories-smiling

1andrew1 01-05-2025 17:23
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Slippery when questioned!
Quote:
Ed Balls and Richard Tice clash as Reform MP fails to answer question 12 times

Former shadow chancellor Ed Balls and Reform UK MP Richard Tice clashed on Good Morning Britain on Wednesday (30 April), after the latter failed repeatedly to give a cost estimate for nationalising British Steel.

Mr Tice said it was "cheaper" and a "lot more cost-effective", that he had an "expert" advising him, and that he has a "good idea" of the sum - but he did not provide an exact figure despite being asked several times.

At one point, after Mr Tice addressed his interviewer as "my dear Ed", Mr Balls replied: "Don't patronise me, answer the question."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other...16708e81&ei=36

Itshim 01-05-2025 17:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195815)
If you are paying you may well own it :D

Pierre 01-05-2025 19:20
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195815)
Watched PMQ’s recently? Starmer never answers a question?….ever.

All politicians are the same.


Also amusing that a former Shadow Labour minister is attacking a right wing politician for suggesting taking British Steel into public ownership. The world has certainly changed.

1andrew1 01-05-2025 21:53
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195825)
Watched PMQ’s recently? Starmer never answers a question?….ever.

All politicians are the same.

Also amusing that a former Shadow Labour minister is attacking a right wing politician for suggesting taking British Steel into public ownership. The world has certainly changed.
He's being attacked for not answering the question, not for his policies. If Tice says that nationalisation is cheaper, he needs to substantiate his claim like any other politician.

The days of Reform UK being given free passes are hopefully behind us. They're a major Party now.

Hugh 01-05-2025 22:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195831)
He's being attacked for not answering the question, not for his policies. If Tice says that nationalisation is cheaper, he needs to substantiate his claim like any other politician.

The days of Reform UK being given free passes are hopefully behind us. They're a major Party now.
Just like the Green Party…

1andrew1 02-05-2025 07:17
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Reform UK have won the Runcorn by-election by six votes after a recount.
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-...reens-12593360

Damien 02-05-2025 08:05
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Bad night for Labour and the Tories. The Tories must be scared witless, this is an existential threat to them now.

papa smurf 02-05-2025 08:36
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195849)
Reform UK have won the Runcorn by-election by six votes after a recount.
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-...reens-12593360
A reminder to people that your vote counts

---------- Post added at 08:36 ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 ----------

Huge win for reform in Lincolnshire

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...-live-10148365

Sephiroth 02-05-2025 08:48
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
It'll be the next election round that matters, imo. Will it consolidate reform?

Mr K 02-05-2025 09:24
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
The more Reform are exposed to the electorate before the next election the better. Populists fall down when they actually have to do something. Ask the residents of Clacton...

1andrew1 02-05-2025 11:17
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36195851)
A reminder to people that your vote counts.
:clap::clap::clap:

Spot on.

---------- Post added at 11:17 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36195850)
Bad night for Labour and the Tories. The Tories must be scared witless, this is an existential threat to them now.
Will be interesting to see if it provokes a Tory leadership challenge.

Maggy 02-05-2025 11:28
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36195855)
The more Reform are exposed to the electorate before the next election the better. Populists fall down when they actually have to do something. Ask the residents of Clacton...
:clap::clap::clap:

1andrew1 02-05-2025 11:42
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36195855)
The more Reform are exposed to the electorate before the next election the better. Populists fall down when they actually have to do something. Ask the residents of Clacton...
That's slightly different as Clacton is Farage Five Jobs' seat.

I suspect Reform UK will lean upon its other MPs to knuckle down and deliver locally.

Jaymoss 02-05-2025 12:03
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
This is what you get when countless governments fail to deliver anything. Jebus cripes we had Boris in power if that does not tell you something about how desperate the electorate is for change nothing will. Now we have another moron it is plain to see people are sick and tired of it

Itshim 02-05-2025 12:15
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Love sir keirs comment , it's all the tories fault that labour lost. Think about it.

1andrew1 02-05-2025 14:54
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36195863)
This is what you get when countless governments fail to deliver anything. Jebus cripes we had Boris in power if that does not tell you something about how desperate the electorate is for change nothing will. Now we have another moron it is plain to see people are sick and tired of it
Your words pretty much echo the analysis in the FT yesterday:
Quote:
For a decade, the country has been consistent that things cannot go on as they are.

This week’s local elections in England will follow that trend. Even if Nigel Farage’s Reform UK party underperforms its headiest predictions, it looks set to cement its status as a major party, capable of superseding the Tories as the main opposition to Labour.

But though allies and rivals will focus on the potency of its populist nationalism, there is a danger of over-interpreting its success. One cannot dismiss the power of the immigration issue or the Tory implosion that Reform is exploiting, but there is a broader and simpler explanation for its rise. Britain is going to keep voting for change until it feels it has come and Farage is the latest beneficiary of that thirst. Reform’s momentum is less about its programme than its claim to the change mantle. That is why Farage, whose personal ratings remain highly negative, is now working to broaden his platform...

MPs on doorsteps report that, just months after backing Labour’s nebulous pledge of change, voters now see Starmer’s defining act as the cutting of pensioner winter fuel payments. To them, this was a betrayal. Not change, but Labour austerity.

The main causes of disaffection have not changed since the 2008 financial crisis: the cost of living, high immigration and public services — the NHS especially. And beneath this is a simpler sense that Britain has stopped functioning as it should, that the state has become unresponsive, that the country is getting poorer.

The UK is following the European pattern of citizens deserting the main parties for alternatives offering a more radical breach with the past.
https://www.ft.com/content/b8efadcb-...3-74b807147dcc

RichardCoulter 02-05-2025 15:07
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195873)
Your words pretty much echo the analysis in the FT yesterday:

https://www.ft.com/content/b8efadcb-...3-74b807147dcc
I can only agree. Labours fortunes won't be helped if they go through with their plans to cut/stop payments to the sick/disabled next year.

If Reform formed a Government i'd be similarly worried about the welfare state/NHS.

Sephiroth 02-05-2025 16:16
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
What's missing here on this thread at this time is any recognition from the Lefties that people at large are kicking Labour for their treachery and robbery. The Conservatives were collateral damage, which they desrved.

All that the Lefties want to tell us us is how awful Farage is. He's not awful - he says it like it is and a large section of the voting public agree with him particularly as they see the Labour nonsense performed before their very eyes.

My party, the Conservatives, need to develop a proper response, including a clear-out of their front bench who carry the stigma from the previous years. They need to retake the Conservative torch from Farage, and talk like Farage as well as sticking it to Labour.

RichardCoulter 02-05-2025 17:39
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36195878)
What's missing here on this thread at this time is any recognition from the Lefties that people at large are kicking Labour for their treachery and robbery. The Conservatives were collateral damage, which they desrved.

All that the Lefties want to tell us us is how awful Farage is. He's not awful - he says it like it is and a large section of the voting public agree with him particularly as they see the Labour nonsense performed before their very eyes.

My party, the Conservatives, need to develop a proper response, including a clear-out of their front bench who carry the stigma from the previous years. They need to retake the Conservative torch from Farage, and talk like Farage as well as sticking it to Labour.
I'd hardly call the Labour Party left wing, the Lib Dems are the nearest we have (in the major parties) to a left wing party these days. You are right though, at the moment Labour seem on course to piss off as many people as possible.

Damien 02-05-2025 18:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Labour getting rid of the winter fuel payment was a big miss. It didn't save much money, and whilst it made logical sense, it cost them far too much politically. Given the damage they got for it, they would have been better to take the hit on the triple-lock. Turn into a double-lock and remove the link to average earnings growth. A government will have to do that eventually. It would be a huge political hit, but at least it would free up substantial space in the budget they could use to do some politically popular things.

They're taking big political hits on small-ticket cuts. They need money for investment, they need money for social care and the NHS. Take a big political hit on something that will allow you to make a big decision.

As for the Tories, I don't know what to say. They've gone complete Twitter-brain. They've got little to say about people's material circumstances and instead Badenoch loves the 'culture war' issues, the social issues. She isn't going to outflank Reform on that, meanwhile, Reform has a populist economic message that outflanks both parties.

I said the other week that Labour are chasing a 1990s Thatcher voter that no longer exists, and the Tories think they're going to win by going after right-wing culture war internet bros.

Itshim 02-05-2025 18:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Loving this
Farage goes through some of the party's victories so far and congratulates the Reform UK candidates who have now been elected - notably the county council in Durham, a Labour heartland.

"I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly."

papa smurf 02-05-2025 19:27
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36195887)
Loving this
Farage goes through some of the party's victories so far and congratulates the Reform UK candidates who have now been elected - notably the county council in Durham, a Labour heartland.

"I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly."
Should make some good savings there once all that is in the bin

1andrew1 02-05-2025 19:35
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36195887)
Loving this
Farage goes through some of the party's victories so far and congratulates the Reform UK candidates who have now been elected - notably the county council in Durham, a Labour heartland.

"I would advise anyone working for Durham County Council on climate change initiatives, or diversity, equity and inclusion, or thinks they can go on working from home, I think you all better really be seeking alternative careers very, very quickly."
Councils are pretty lean, having their funding halved since 2010 and seeing increased demand for adult social care so I doubt there's any fat to cut.

A touch hypocritical of Five Jobs to criticise people working from home given he's a rare visitor to his own constituency.

Jaymoss 02-05-2025 19:37
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Round my way 7 out of 8 council seats went to reform and the 8th to the greens

papa smurf 02-05-2025 19:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36195896)
Round my way 7 out of 8 council seats went to reform and the 8th to the greens
The greens are all barking mad

Paul 02-05-2025 19:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Whats wrong with Working from Home ?

1andrew1 02-05-2025 20:02
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36195901)
Whats wrong with Working from Home ?
Farage and Musk say it's woke but practice it themselves. They seem to trust themselves to work from home but not their underlings.

Sirius 02-05-2025 20:44
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Well the Labour and Conservative supporters will have sensed a disturbance in the Force today. No matter how they frame their arguments for and against a given party they should start to be concerned.

Personally i hope come the next election both Labour and the Conservatives are given the kicking they deserve. I already know who i will vote for unless there is a similar disturbance in the force but somehow i cannot see it happening. The conservatives are going to need a total rebuild from the ground up, Labour have pissed off to many pensioners over the Winter fuel theft and if rumours are to be true they are about to stab the disabled in the back as well.Numbers wise that a sizeable chunk of voters

Damien 02-05-2025 20:50
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius (Post 36195905)
Well the Labour and Conservative supporters will have sensed a disturbance in the Force today. No matter how they frame their arguments for and against a given party they should start to be concerned.

Personally i hope come the next election both Labour and the Conservatives are given the kicking they deserve. I already know who i will vote for unless there is a similar disturbance in the force but somehow i cannot see it happening. The conservatives are going to need a total rebuild from the ground up, Labour have pissed off to many pensioners over the Winter fuel theft and if rumours are to be true they are about to stab the disabled in the back as well.Numbers wise that a sizeable chunk of voters
It's not a rumour. They're looking to reduce PIP payments.

1andrew1 02-05-2025 21:23
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Good graphic from the FT showing the winners and losers in the council elections. The Conservative losses and Reform gains are almost equal.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1746217369

Jaymoss 02-05-2025 21:38
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36195906)
It's not a rumour. They're looking to reduce PIP payments.
I thought the cuts were just no yearly increases for a long time so effective cuts rather than dropping the amounts?

Pierre 02-05-2025 22:18
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36195881)
I'd hardly call the Labour Party left wing, the Lib Dems are the nearest we have (in the major parties) to a left wing party these days. You are right though, at the moment Labour seem on course to piss off as many people as possible.
They’re all left of centre, apart (at the face of it) from Reform.

---------- Post added at 22:18 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195895)
Councils are pretty lean.
There you go again, you comedy genius you,

Paul 02-05-2025 23:43
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195903)
Farage and Musk say it's woke but practice it themselves.
Just proves what morons they are.

Our company has moved out of a huge 4 floor office block they leased into a single floor in a smaller building as 90% WFH now.
For the changeover, which is taking about 4 weeks, they told everyone to WFH if possible.

---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

In the meantime Reform took control of almost everything around me, they took Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire, Lincolnshire & Staffordshire, they also took the most seats in Leicestershire, but were 3 short of overall control (needed 28, got 25).

1andrew1 03-05-2025 00:06
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195911)
There you go again, you comedy genius you,
If you understood the smallest thing about the impact of adult social care costs on councils and the tough funding choices they make, you would be somewhat less generous in your 'praise'.

---------- Post added 03-05-2025 at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was 02-05-2025 at 23:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36195911)
They’re all left of centre, apart (at the face of it) from Reform.
Your ability to make me chuckle never ceases with this little gem. So you're now inviting forum members to join you in your Lewis Carrollesque world in which the Party that threatened to send unlawful immigrants to Rwanda is to be viewed as 'left of centre'. I think you've been watching too much Maga TV! :D

Pierre 03-05-2025 08:10
Re: Reform UK's chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36195917)
If you understood the smallest thing about the impact of adult social care
. I’ve built a annexe to my home to house my Mother in Law as she was diagnosed with dementia four years ago. I am well versed in the Adult care …….or should I say the lack of it.
Quote:
tough funding choices they make
is that why half of them are bankrupt.


Quote:
Your ability to make me chuckle never ceases with this little gem. So you're now inviting forum members to join you in your Lewis Carrollesque world in which the Party that threatened to send unlawful immigrants to Rwanda is to be viewed as 'left of centre'. I think you've been watching too much Maga TV! :D
Also the party that let them all in, and a practice happily continued by the slightly leftier party that followed.


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