Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Labour before election: “Fully costed” for years stated & attacked Tories for wanting to reduce WFP. After elected make their lame excuses.

After election: Winter fuel payments stopped for 10 million.

Able to pay Train drivers £70K. That’s nothing to do with Tories. Can’t keep blaming them.

And now the cronyism, glasses for passes. Labour activists & supporters getting top civil service job, don’t ever fecking call Tories again. :rolleyes:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

TFL drivers are paid from the TFL budget. It isn't given a government subsidy apart from infrastructure projects such as Crossrail. Some other train drivers outside of TFL were already paid £70,000k tho but that predates the election.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...oogle_vignette

Tory MP partying at time of economic crisis…..….bad

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ilmed-33566381

Labour MP partying during time of economic crisis…….good.


It’s very simple

---------- Post added at 21:17 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

an above inflation pay rise, in line with he private sector, which would have been around 5% that would have been reasonable.

And I would have happy to agree to that for a further two years, so 15% over three years.

More than reasonable.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:17 ----------

There go the tax payers………..


https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ri...140707213.html

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Where does it say one is bad, one is good ?
Not that I would pay the slightest attention to the Daily Mirror anyway.
Not exactly known for their balanced articles.

I hope Mr Grove had a good holiday as well. ;)

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

From the article dated Tue, 18 Jun 2024
There went the tax-payers, when the Conservatives were in power…

From the actual report

https://www.henleyglobal.com/newsroo...on-report-2024

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Are they tax payers ?
I thought the complaint was that the "rich" keep avoiding paying tax.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It’s the narrative Paul, come on.

Tory ……….Tory MPs partying during economic crisis…….bad

Labour…….Labour Deputy PM during Economic crisis and 20 billion black hole, partying……Girl Boss…….all good here.


We’ve had 14 years of the left slagging of the Tory’s daily (sometimes justifiably). Labour are now in power and I will do the same to them …were warranted, and when I see two tier standards applied or rank hypocrisy.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Anticipating that Labour would get in.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Even worse then, they saw the writing on the wall, the incoming dicks.

It’s worse than imagined

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I don't think attacking Rayner for going on holiday when Parliament is in recess is a valid criticism.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Optics though….isn’t that the word. The same week as Starmer gives a speech saying things are going to get worse.

A few weeks after pensioners are told they’ll have to freeze in the winter, she photographed having a great time……….

Like I say this time last year, or any year, if that was Sunak or any other leading Tory, you’d have Mr K on here saying the same thing, backed up by the usual suspects.



I do, just in the same way many, many more, hold the exact opposite view

It’s not because I’m angry.

I’m going to hold this government to the same standard as others on here held the last one……..that’s all.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Crisis, what crisis:)

Note: I do realise that Callaghan didn't actually say it.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Good album, though…

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Weird behaviour from the right-wing media. They would prefer politicians who are out partying during the Covid lockdown as oppose to when Parliament is in recess.

Perhaps not in the same silly league as criticising someone for changing the pictures when they move house, but definitely a few-sandwiches-short-of-a- lunchbox mentality.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It looks like I'm having some first hand experience of entrepreneurs leaving the UK.

I had been in communication with a person who runs a company from the UK, with offices in a few locations in Europe and the USA. He had been very keen for me to undertake some work for his company which carries out product R&D and modification/manufacturing in the UK. He has a couple of guys working for him who are past retirement age and looking to finish later this year. He was very keen to know when I would be available to take on some work, he said he wanted my services full time but would be glad of a day or two a week if possible.

I emailed him a few weeks ago as we agreed to let him know that the extended contract I was working on had come to an end, and that would free me up for a couple of days a week. I had a very brief response saying that the business was currently being restructured and he would let me know the situation when things have settled down.

I mentioned this to the acquaintance who introduced us, and he says that the business is being located outside of the UK due to concerns about the new government. (His wife is an employee)

Being nosy, I notice that his residential property has very recently appeared on an upmarket estate agent website.

It looks like this guy and his business are off.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

People are allowed to have and enjoy their Summer holidays though.

What's the issue really?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Looks like there is still some money for pensioners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewlqxv0n1qo

That'll put it up to about £12k, getting close to the [frozen] tax free limit (£12,570).

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

+400

Won’t cover the increase in gas/elec

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

£300 loss this year
talk about removing single occupant council tax relief £400 + loss [many pensioners are widowed]

I've spotted a black hole :dig:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You're expecting gas/electricity to rise by more than £400 ?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

It will if that eco loony Milliband gets his way.

Labour are fully signed up to the net zero nonsense.:rolleyes:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Scotland has dropped free school meals to all primary school pupils.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg54zv32gyo

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

No magic money trees nowadays.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

That's down to starmer cutting the budget,starve the kids to give train drivers a 10K rise

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

When does the Barnett Formula get applied. Starmer & co giving out large pay rises in England, which should feed through to extra money for
Scotland, Wales, and NI. Do they have to wait until next April?
Not a fan of the Barnett Formula, but it would be unfair to have to wait that long.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Posts removed. This is not another blame everything on Brexit topic.
If you want to winge about that (again) there are dedicated topics for it.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Makes sense.

Combat the policies of the pensioner hating nasty party

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The air fares to France and fees to the gangs would cost more than the Winter fuel allowance that will not be awarded to better-off pensioners this year!

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2609340.html

If you're going to do something, that you know, by your own fact finding report, is going to kill people...............would you be, potentially criminally, liable for those deaths?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The small chink of light at the end of the tunnel is ,IFyou survive the winter and don't sucumb to hypothermia there's a pension rise due in april of next year.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I was being cheeky, just highlighting the absolute rank hypocrisy of our Dear Leader.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The 1 in 4 pensioners that are millionaires, will struggle without this £200 payment. I feel for them.....

Basing it on council tax band wouldn't be a bad idea with only the lowest bands qualifying. It needs to be targeted instead of throwing it at those that will just buy a new patio heater.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Postpone it a year. See if there is a way to target it better in that time and if not then you'll have another year of triple-lock anyway. It also gives people more notice and hope that energy prices have come down, which they are predicted to do anyway as this coming increase is lower than it was this time last year.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Millionaires as in assets, or disposable income?

If you are retired, with a house worth £500k, and a pension pot of £500k (which gives an annuity of £23k per year), that makes the household worth a million, but pretty sure they are not living a "millionaire's" lifestyle...

Btw, I do agree with you that it needs to be more targeted.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

They always have the option to downsize to release a lot of capital. Rattling around in a big house with empty bedrooms, with high heating bills makes no sense. There's enough young families out there needing such property.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Not as easy as you think - where we live, 3 bed bungalows cost as much as 4 bed detached houses (because developers can build a 4/5 bed house on the bungalow’s footprint).

We need 3 beds because we have family who live all over the country, and they visit most months.

Like most things, it’s not that simple…

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Hes just trolling again, ignore him.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

So you reckon there are 3.25Million people of pensionable age in the U.K. that are millionaires?

Which is 400,000 more millionaires that exist in the country of any age.

If you’re going to spout bollocks to make a point, try harder.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

No, the nasty party will tax house sales……..it’s coming.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I assume hes basing it off a similar claim made in 2021.

https://fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

Most are not really 'millionaires' in the sense its normally referred to.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Not even because of that, my mother-in-law is downsizing (I said that in a Bernard Manning impression)

Just sold her three bedroom bungalow for £470,000. And not to a young family (because a young family couldn’t afford that) but to another couple of similar age who are also downsizing.

And if you’re downsizing to £470K, I doubt any young families are buying the property they’re leaving either.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You might not refer to this in this way but it is a common definition:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millionaire

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Did you even read it ?

The whole point is that is not how they are defining it.

Their definition is an individual who lives in a household whose total value is over a million.
They even give you a simple example which you ignored.
Each could be "worth" £550,000, not millionaires.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Doesn’t make it accurate.

I remember watching a tv movie years ago about a kid that had a bet with his friend that he would be a millionaire, or have 10 million, or something, by a certain time, a week or something like that.

And he engineered a way, by blagging test drives in expensive cars etc, to get to an auction on a house.

His plan was to bid on the house when it reached £1M or more, he was convinced he would be outbid…..but those few seconds he would own that house and be worth it’s value.

So, it just shows how measuring on that basis is pointless.


As it happened, he won the auction and couldn’t pay for it……….and much hilarity ensued.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I did read it. Not all pensioners are in a couple which is something you ignored. I think around 40% at the last count. Bottom line is that there are many pensioners who are wealthy and this should not be dismissed out of hand. It is part of the equation.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

So now you're just making it up as you go, because you got it wrong.
I didnt say "all" at any point, nor did they, so clearly we didnt ignore anything.
I also never said there were no "wealthy" pensioners or that it should be "dismissed out of hand".

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

As we have concluded that there are many millionaire pensioners, maybe things like the Winter Fuel Payments should be means tested or somehow linked to their HMRC status. These payments should go to those who literally cannot afford to heat their home.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Yes, on that we can agree, but isnt that basically how they will work for 2024 ?

The full eligibility as currently listed: https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:21 ----------

Also, unless I missed an announcment, the Warm Home Discount (£150) is still being paid in 2024.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

But Labour themselves have said implementing this policy will kill people.

They know, they are killing pensioners with this.

I’m not saying that, a Labour Shadow cabinet are saying that, they’re no longer a shadow cabinet, they are the government but are now implementing the very policy they said would kill people.

How do you reconcile that?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Relatively even-handed article on the Winter Fuel Payment issue.

https://eastangliabylines.co.uk/news...t-winter-fuel/

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Torys do it = bad
Labour do it = good

---------- Post added at 09:19 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

I'm a little confused here

the article states The allowance is a single annual payment of £200 a year for people over 65 and £300 for those over 80, paid in November to everyone receiving state pension.


last year i got £ 300 i was 67 back then .

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Well, not sure about even handed.

This statement raised my eyebrows That's quite an opinion, if my employer was to reduce my salary by £300, I'd miss it.

I think anyone would miss £300.

and on the second point...... "most will be keeping it"

The writer of the article itself states So most will not be keeping it, around 84% of pensioners will be losing it.

All this to save £1.4B, when asylum seekers cost us £4.3B

Why bring Asylum seekers into it, I hear you ask. Because it's a waste of money that could and should be sorted out before taking money away from pensioners

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

[Yet another stupid trolling comment removed].

.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

This I more akin to them increasing your salary to £900 but taking away an annual bonus you got of £300 if we're making that comparison.

Anyway, I think Labour should delay it a year. This takes us past this 10% increase in energy bills and allows another year of triple lock to kick in.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Today i am so glad i did not vote for the bunch of muppets in power now. I can sleep easy knowing that i have not contributed to the eventual deaths of pensioners this winter, i await the response from the labour supporters who believe that Labour have done well by voting in this cut. The train drivers will be loving all the extra money at the expense of the pensioners.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Thousands of pensioners might die of hypothermia but on the pluss side mick jagger won't get £200:td:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Perhaps before you pontificate further you could answer the following. What are the estimated excess deaths caused by austerity ? Cuts to public services etc ?

Sleep easy……

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Not forgetting the savings we should have by then from GB Energy;)

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

My local MP voted for the deaths of pensioners.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2609340.html

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

And every one of those voting for pensioners to be killed can claim their £3500 heating allowance.

The sweet smell of hypocrisy.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Thats champagne socialists for you.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

And Kemi Badenoch (and those Conservative MPs who voted for her in the 2022 Leadership Election)…

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/kemi-baden...093446081.html

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Just to add a little reality to all this.
Remember that energy is cheaper this year (winter).

The Energy cap last winter (Oct-Dec) was £1834 and then £1928 (Jan-Mar).
This year its only £1717 (Oct-Dec) and predicted to be about £1740 (Jan-Mar).

So £117 cheaper for Oct-Dec this year, and around £188 cheaper in Jan-Mar.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

And the last State Pension rise was £900 in April 2024…

I don’t understand why they don’t delay it until they can find a way of targeting at those most in need (just ask HMRC for a file if those who have incomes of less than £nn,nnn, then match the payments on NI number).

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Don’t know, you tell us.

Not sure giving train drivers £50K+ saved too many lives.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Can somebody help Rachel Reeves with her memory? She seems to have forgotten something she said she’d never forget.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I couldn’t vote today as I was at the dentist…………

But if I wasn’t at the dentist I would definitely 100% have voted against the government, they’re so nasty.

I’m 100% for pensioners and when the time comes to increase taxes on your private pension my pledge to you is that I’ll be at the chiropodist……….

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I expect that the train drivers will only be loving it until the budget, then we will most likely be back to square one with them demanding more.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

He is referring to the Tories freezing other benefits over the last decade. Working age benefits, child tax credits and so on have been reduced/frozen for a long time now. As well as making it harder for people to claim disability benefits.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Benefits went up by the rate of inflation, as they always have done. It was the salaries of Ministers that were frozen.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Just do a quick internet search for 'Did the Conservatives freeze benefits' and there are lots and lots of results that seem to contradict your statement.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

<cough cough>

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50278634

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

And a year later.
Link

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

And that has what relevance to your incorrect assertion?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

My mother phoned me earlier, apparently their pension income is 75 pence per week over the threshold to claim the heating allowance.

My fathers health is poor and they are not the type to attempt to get handouts, but this has annoyed them so much they are going to apply for attendance allowance.

My mother attends classes at the local adult education establishment, and she is aware that many of them in the class receive attendance allowance. When asked they usually become defensive and say it's because someone puts their bins out for them etc. She's really annoyed because the majority of these people receiving the attendance allowance are fit enough for foreign holidays etc.

They had a similar problem when my father lost his DLA and my wife persuaded them to appeal, as they didn't want to make a fuss. My father actually ended up having his benefits increased. They were annoyed then because they knew examples of people receiving DLA who were able to walk up Pen y fan, but my father would struggle to make it the length of the car park.

The benefits system has always been rigged in favour of those who know how to work it.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The original statement implied they were frozen for a decade, when it was actually 4 years, so neither of them were correct.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Many people on disability benefits would be capable of climbing up Pey y fan, I don't understand your point.

---------- Post added at 18:02 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

There's lots of ways they could stop the more affluent pensioners getting the Winter Fuel Allowance, whilst continuing to help those not much above the Pension Credit level.

They could restrict it to basic rate taxpayers only, keep it for those in bands A to C for Council Tax or make it taxable so the more affluent pay up to 45% of it back.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

These people are supposedly physically not mentally disabled, they have all their limbs, walk unaided and lead fairly active lifestyles for their age.

It is unfortunate that those who lie and know how to play the benefit system do very well from it, whilst those who are more deserving but too proud to speak up get nothing.

We have one scrounger in our family, over 40 years ago he got two girls pregnant and told me at the time that he wasn't going to ever work again because they would come after him for maintenance payments. Fair play he was true to his word, apart from the 18 months or so when he left school he hasn't worked a single day since as he's been living on disability benefits.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

A simple solution? Don't make the WFP to households paying higher rate Income Tax?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Hey everyone, here’s another rich pensioner, you know, the ones Mr K hates.

Look at how much money they have …….makes me sick, playing the system. Taking money from those poor doctors and train drivers………

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Isn't £221.20 a week the full state pension?

Pension Credit is for those not in receipt of the full state pension. It only brings you up to £218.50 a week hence why you need to be under that amount.

Unless I've misunderstood the purpose of it.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

£221 pw i bet almost amounts to a weeks rent in many places in the uk

a quick google shows
In Great Britain, Wales has the lowest average rent at £748 per month. Typical rents in Scotland are £965 a month, and in England are £1,319 per month.28 Aug 2024

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Doesn’t Housing Benefit for pensioners help with rent?

https://lottie.org/fees-funding/hous...or-pensioners/

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

i have no idea

maybe an elderly fourum member might have first hand knowledge of the subject.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Has no idea but why should that stop you having a strong opinion on it :spin:

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Whats the answer then ?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You managed to google the average rent across the country but not what the criteria is for claiming housing benefit then couldn't be bothered to click Hugh's link and now expect me to tell you the answer? Guess what, I can't be arsed to google it for you but I am certain if you meet the criteria which are, being over pensionable age, paying rent and are on a low income you qualify and I'll go further and say I bet it's easier for pensioners to claim, the savings threshold is higher and that it can be back dated for longer for them too

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

how sure of all that are you?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Look it up or move on, you're just trolling again, its getting tiresome.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Starmer 2021

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-curtains-row

Starmer 2024

https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-...ny-mp-13217287

Yes, definitely the moral high ground, and a step up from Sleazy Tories.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Maybe I've misunderstood things so far, and let's face it there's a pretty good chance, but isn't Starmer and Co more or less doing what Dodgy Dave and the Tories did in 2010? The main difference being you can virtually count each financial disaster the Tories caused (£40bn to their mates for crappy PPE that didn't work, and a Track and Trace system which was crap at best and Google and Apple offered to work together to create for free, also Liz Truss' attempts at beyond-bankrupting the country) etc etc which put us in this position, whereas Cameron and Osbourne tried to blame Labour for the world recession from 2/3 years previously?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Oh okay, so you’re happy with that then.

Just that I thought, that you considered the Tories the devil incarnate.

But if it’s Starmer & Co, it’s OK?

I thought the reason for voting for Starmer & Co was for voting for better….not the same.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

You're going to have to keep going for at least 10 years with this. It's going to get quite wearing for you...

Can they sort the NHS out, can they give the young hope, housing and a future , can they make people content again and the country prosperous? On that they'll be judged.

Big task after the self destruction and running down of everything of the last 14 years. It'll take at least that time again, not a few weeks. Be patient, maybe get back into the workforce and help out? More productive than posting on here.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Evidently not, it’s literally taken just a few weeks.

Not only on that…….not by a long way.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

The other week I took the wrong pair of glasses to the gym (I need one pair for reading, the other for VDU use and this was the pair I meant to take as I enjoy watching Netflix on my iPad while I do cardio) and annoyingly they got damaged in my bag en route so I’m stuck with the pair I can’t properly read my iPad with.

So I’m sure you’ll forgive me for asking if you can point out, post-quote even if you prefer, where I said I was “happy” with it, or alternatively in any way pleased with it?

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

In my area you could pay well over £1200 a month for a 2 bedroom apartment. (that's what my niece and her girlfriend were paying.)

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Ok “happy” may be a stretch. …….bit of a theatrical avenue to making a point, though.

But you cite an equivalence between Starmer now and Cameron then and you seem to be ok with that, because now it’s Starmer doing it and not the Tories.

If I’ve called it wrong please correct me and denounce Starmer at the same time.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

I’m sorry, you’re calling my shots now? Sorry son it doesn’t work that way.

The point I was making is there are plenty of anti-Labour (or just Tory) voters having a dig at Starmer and Co for what he’s done early on in his leadership yet conveniently staying quiet at the fact that Dodgy Dave did exactly the same, with pretty much the only difference being the reasons behind the vastly unpopular cuts Starmer is planning to make can be measured a hell of a lot more legitimately.

So yes, you’ve called it wrong. And speaking of wrong, I’m the “wrong” person you should be attempting to get performing like a trained monkey.

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Oh the naivety,

That my boy is 100% the prerogative of the Tory voters at this time. Labour have campaigned against the corrupt Tories. You yourself have described Tories and Tory voters as “scum”.

You have championed Starmer as the alternative, as the greater good, as the better choice.

And he’s just as corrupt, and you can’t even argue he’s better, ……just equivalent to the apparent evil that has just been removed.

I’m not wrong, I’ve called it dead right. It’s a bit embarrassing after all this time………..for you and your ilk.

That the great hope, is just as bent, and after only 70 days the country hates them

https://order-order.com/2024/09/17/l...n-record-time/

Re: Here comes the tax rises
 

Labour keeps making self-inflicted mistakes, like Johnson in that way with the wallpaper. There is no reason for Starmer to get clothes, glasses and football tickets donated. I understand with football that he can no longer go to the stands so I don't care as much about that, especially if he is invited into a box as Sunak was, but he needs to cut out the rest of it.

They also didn't need to spend as much political capital on the winter fuel allowance. Say you're delaying it a year and tie it to the tax bands so it doesn't go to anyone paying 40%.

I don't think it's at the level of the Tories yet. That will come if they start giving out government contracts as dodgy as the PPE ones.

It's still early and they've had very little Parliamentary time so the jury is still out on what they will do. I think they need to signal some hope in the next budget now though, it can't be all doom and gloom. They'll be judged on the NHS, housing, crime and the economy. The problem is you need money to do the first three and not investing in anything won't help the economy either.