Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Shit, I just realised that when well over a million people marched to stop the war we were actually sympathisers to Saddam Hussain, why did no one tell me this at the time, I mean I was under the impression at the time that support for one didn't automatically equate to support for another but clearly we were all wrong

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

I meticulously applied my observations of past events and scriptures to the present, pointing out where they still applied and where they didn't.

"virtue signalling"?

I am surprised to see you come out with the standard right-wing accusation lazily aimed at any principled statement they disagree with.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

You shouldn’t be…

"Woke", "wokerati", "remoaners", "out of your minds", "critical mass", etc. will probably be along soon.

As was stated in the 8th post in this thread

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Judaism and Christianity were there before Islam came along, so of course Churches existed in those areas.
Islam took over areas by force in the Mediterranean area, including parts of Spain, France, Italy, and south eastern Europe. Then came along the Ottoman(Turkey) Empire which expanded and only ended after WWI.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Made up, false definitions

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Just look a the numbers that cheered after 9/11. Just look at the number of them that went off to join Bin Laden,IS, etc. Just look at the poll where only 4% that believed Bin Laden was responsible for 9/11 or the 43% that believe there should be some sort of Sharia Law or the 15% that believe music shouldn't be taught in schools.
Have a read.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Not these.

https://www.poolre.co.uk/19-individu...ular-migrants/

https://www.timesofisrael.com/livebl...blic-not-told/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acks-2014.html

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo...001669_EN.html


Etc, etc, etc

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Cracking post mate, well said.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Not really, what’s the sample set ?

Here’s one for you 1 person out of 1 surveyed think you two are a pair of dimwits who want to feel oppressed.

Must be true….

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Survey of 3,000 UK Muslims. Then look at the number who actually went off and joined Bin Laden, IS, etc.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

What number did go off and join ? As a percentage of the 1.8bn Muslims in the world ?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Please can you provide the links for those survey results?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

The mere use of the term 'virtue signalling', whoever it is aimed at, has become an indicator of a right-wing mind set. Having said that, I once used it ironically against a right-wing correspondent who indulged in actual virtual signalling.

You can't dismiss history just because it no longer suit you. I first brought up recent immigration of Jews as an example of how the current stereotyping of Islam and Muslims has happened under similar immigration circumstances, but in the context of Judaism and Jews. I was hoping you might learn from history. Right-wing fanatics and fascist like Oswald Mosley warned us of Jews doing what you are now telling us that Muslims are planning.

You then dip into history to explain that Europe has always been Judeo-Christian and that is why Jews integrated so well. Pity someone didn't explain that to Oswald Mosley

I then dipped into history to explain how relatively tolerant of Christianity Islam was when it was at its height in contrast to the brutality of evangelical Christian European colonialists. I also explained how the scriptures predisposed all three Ibrahimic religions to being either brutal or highly civilised. I explained that on this basis Muslims weren't exceptionally hard to integrate. Suddenly, you decided that history wasn't so relevant after all.

You tell me that history is no longer relevant, because we are looking at Muslims now, not 900 years ago, presumably because Islam now is intrinsically different than it was then. :rolleyes:

Having then decided it is Muslims now that are the problem you then fail to convince us that there is a conspiracy to take over the western world. You are convinced this is there ambition berceuse ... erm history tells us that they are like that and that some of them are quite angry now for some reason or other.

Finally, there's that question you asked somewhere in that previous 13 pages of debate.

"What would happen to us if there was a Muslim majority in Parliament? "

Firstly, if that were to happen, then it would seem that most of the 93% of the country that aren't Muslim, decided they wanted Muslim MPs. :Yikes::LOL: Suddenly we must have decided that Muslims R us!

But, to be fair to you, I guess you meant that this might happen in some future you have in mind, where all those Muslims breeding like rabbits and arriving in rubber dinghies outnumber non-Muslims. I think that scenario has already been well and truly dissed. The only way that would happen is if most of the the folk of sub-Saharan Africa and the near East headed this way because climate change had made their land unlivable! Whoops! Perhaps we better sort out climate change quickly. After all, global warming is the enemy of all of us.

BTW. Your definitions of the made-up words Wokerati and Remoaner are just laughable. They would be hilarious terms if it were not for the fact that such words are deliberately deployed by the right-wing's puppet masters because they know that if their marionettes have those words in their vocabulary they can use them to pigeon-hole and dismiss members of the liberal left without having to engage them in informed rational debate. This makes it so much easier to propagate conspiracy theories amongst the gullible, keeping them socially and intellectually at a distance from those who might explain what is really going on.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

A fair few, 17 ended up at Guantanamo Bay.
3,000 chosen at random is still representative of the group overall.

2,000 IS women caught and detained by Kurdish and Iraqi forces.
Link

Link

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Well I have enjoyed your lengthy diatribes, and your well structured, seemingly well researched, cognisant opinion.

But you’ve just torpedoed yourself under the water line with that remark.

I now see you for who you are. You are illuminated.

Thank you for the clarification.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1701653023

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

So much coffee in this topic. :hyper:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

So much blue font and paranoia too ;)

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

:tu:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Too much denial of facts.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

I'm sorry Seph but why are you trying to side derail your interesting debate with roughbeast on Islamism and multiculturalism by inserting a cut-and-paste paragraph on gender identity? Is that effectively a white flag I see? Or just a large handkerchief?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

This pensioner is subsidising her children already so I'm hardly bleeding the country dry.:mad:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

No its not dangerous at all.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

I. I spoke about the right-wing origins of your language, not about your position on the left/right political spectrum. If you continue to use right-wing buzz words and make right wing assumptions I may eventually conclude that you are right wing. Because I don't know you well, I can't come to a view yet.

2. My point about your attitude to history is that you are selective when it suits you. We agree, I think, in general terms about what it is that caused the rise of radical Islam and thereby terrorist acts, i.e. continued western military support for Israel despite its illegal expansionism and military interventions in Muslim lands, killing millions, in order to secure oil supplies. Yet, you believe that there is something exceptional about Islam that makes their reaction more likely than that of Christians or Jews. You choose not to list the colonial terrorist acts of Christian Europeans such as the Amritsar Massacre. There is a long list of the use of terror and air policing by countries such as the UK and France in order to subjugate local populations in Kenya, Libya, Algeria etc. Then, of course, there were the terrorist acts by Zionist zealots against Palestinians ands Brits that contributed to the creation of Israel. No doubt you will chose not to attribute this terrorism to the Christian or Jewish nature of those terrorists.

Incidentally, I was one of those peace marchers on Armistice Day, that could have ripped up London. I and 10s of thousands of non-Muslims joined the march for peace. Why did the marchers not rip up London? Could it be that the marchers, mostly Muslim men, women and children, shared the values of peace, which is why they were easily policeable? You selected out the genuinely unpoliceable fascist gangs of Mr Loxley Lennon who caused mayhem at the Cenotaph.

You probably need to read this survey of the attitudes of British Muslims to give yourself a balanced picture. https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/...in-ipsos_0.pdf

3. The British Union of Fascists had a membership of over 50,000 in the 1930s and had the full support of Lord Rothermere and the Daily Mail. They subscribed to the Nazi view of Jewry. Only the outbreak of war prevented Mosley et al from gaining strength. As it is, his organisation was made illegal and members were thrown into jail.

4. I'm glad you noted how those Muslim MPs stood up for the people of Gaza and the West Bank but you omitted to mention the sizeable number of non-Muslim MPs. You see, you did it again. By leaving out the non-Muslim peace protestors and rebelling MPs you hoped that would support your conspiracy theory that the Muslims are against us and preparing for an takeover when Muslim population suddenly leaps to over 50% of the population. :rolleyes:

For my amusement, I see a great irony here, when you project the rising number of Muslims in the light of large Muslim component of our vastly increasing net immigration numbers. The irony is that those immigrants are replacing the 100s of thousands of white, Christian EU workers who started to leave our shores from June 23rd 2016. I don't know if you voted Leave or Remain, but many who voted leave did so to reduce immigration. They hadn't realised that immigration numbers are largely ruled by the needs of the economy and that EU workers would have to be replaced with mostly non-white, non-Christian immigrants, many of whom are skilled Muslims. I wonder if some of those Leave voters are now complaining about a Muslim takeover. :LOL::clap:

5. I see you have had a go at the left and at liberals poorly stereotyping them as unable to distinguish between male and female. These kinds of generalisations are pretty mindless and shabby stuff, not worth of someone capable of grasping the intricacies of the world of IT, networks etc way beyond my ability. You stereotype Muslims just as clumsily. I understand that pigeon-holing groups and individuals makes it easier to dismiss or attack them and also reduces cognitive dissonance, but in the end it intellectually lazy and potentially dangerous as we saw when Adolf deployed stereotypes to powerful effect.

A general problem I see in the field of sexual identity, is people's inability to distinguish between sex and gender. Our sex is either Male or Female according to attributes we have at birth. (Genuine hermaphrodites are a miniscule minority) However, gender is a social construct. A significant number of males and females, due to hormone irregularities or socio-environmental factors or wilful misassignment by their parents do not feel that they are the gender they have been assigned. They need recognition, help and support, either medical and/or social. They certainly shouldn't be discriminated against.

Regarding public toilets and showers my view is that maximum choice is the key to reducing concerns about privacy especially when accommodating people who don't fall into traditional gender categories. It would also accommodate those men and women who are concerned about being perved by gays. The move towards unisex toilets and showers areas, but with ample private spaces for those who need and want it, is the way to go anyway. Lots of toilet cubicles and hidden urinals and individual shower cubicles is sensible. I am not proposing that we go down the route of Belgium Sun Parks that I experienced over 30 years ago. There I was changing ready for a swim when two women entered the area and started changing too I hadn't realised that the Belgians were so grown up and had left concerns about nudity so far behind years ago and that if I had wanted privacy there were plenty cubicles. I guess they feel that if nudity in public areas is commonplace then there is no point in furtive perving. :LOL:

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:43 ----------

I'm disappointed. You tease me with your remarks, but give no explanation or examples.

---------- Post added at 11:55 ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 ----------

Doh! We can all find examples of useless people especially if we trawl those sources, but what about the vast majority who are useful?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Nail on the head! Covid certainly increased or accelerated the exit of Christians back to their EU home states too.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

1. We aren't going around in circles. Your arguments have been well and truly dissed. You just haven't realised it yet.

2. If Starmer and Cooper were of the left, that wouldn't mean the whole of the left think like them. You applied a stereotypical view of the left, as you did that of Muslims. I wasn't prepared to let you get away with that.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:14 ----------

That was a bit random.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Sorry, posted in haste. In long form it would read

You've certainly hit the nail on the head there.

We should also acknowledge that Covid increased or accelerated the exit of Christians from the UK back to their EU home states.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

This is true, although Brexit has been the main factor. Also, without Brexit, most of those workers who went home for Covid, may well have come back after the pandemic. Either way, EU workers have been replaced by non-EU workers.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Agreed.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

This in a nutshell :tu:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

:tu: Wonderful post. Well said. I just love the summary of the lazy, child-like use of the "Woke", "Remoaner", "Lefty" tropes. Perfect!

However, don't for one minute think that those who hide behind these lazy insults will be tempted to engage & debate the objective reality of the real world.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Thank you for your appreciative comments.

I have no great expectations of people who lazily use insulting labels or apply stereotypes instead of engaging in the subject properly. For that reason I was very happy that Sephiroth engaged for a while at least. I might be wrong, but I sensed that he was beginning to find that some of the stereotypes he was applying to various groups aren't necessarily applicable or universal. Maybe that is why he backed off, but more likely he did so because I'm a pedantic old bugger who follows through in detail. :D

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

you left out Right Wing.

---------- Post added at 12:59 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Islam isn't at it's Height, it's still growing.

And it's lovely to hear it was relatively tolerant, there's no evidence that is the case today. Quite the opposite

They don't integrate, they set up their own closed communities.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Like all the Doctor Who fans that are crying woke because of the diverse castings and mention of pronouns and a trans character. How very dare they bring that into their favourite show.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

The name calling of remoaners, woke etc, have proven to be empty words from those who have nothing to offer themselves, and to deflect from the real issues facing people. Divide and conquer always works and has for over a decade with this Govt.

The NHS will cease to function if the current immigration proposals actually happen. However those with a bit of cash will be OK, as they have been over the last 13 years and that's the main thing.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

It's not multiculturalism that's dangerous it's the present government.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Yes, members of the current government use terms such as wokerati as part of their divisive culture wars. Culture wars, anti benefit claimants, anti-asylum seekers etc all works as a distraction from Tory failures.

I really don't get their stance on immigration. One moment, high net immigration is all because of free movement in the EU, then its students daring to stay for the length of their course and then it's 700,000 non-Europeans in one year. The government looks desperately for ways of discouraging people coming here to work, setting up mean and cruel barriers and completely missing the elephant in the room the whole time.

The elephant in the room is the lack of trained people already in this country. Leavers, this government and, most employers and, I fear, Starmer, do not seem to realise that if we educated and trained our own people there would be less vacancies unfilled and, therefore, lo and behold, less immigration. Of course, this government has failed to overhaul and properly fund our education, training and qualification systems for 13 years now. Why are they surprised that immigration has soared and it wasn't the EU causing it? I suspect they knew all along that the EU didn't cause high net immigration. They needed to assert that lie to persuade folk to vote Leave.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Much like all the woke fans endlessly spouting this as if its a defence. ;)
Doctor who went super woke, and super preachy, your just too blind to see it. :cool:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Bit below the belt :td:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Firstly I have no issues with multiculturalism or any diversity. Nothing to do with being too blind to see it. It doesn't affect me negatively like all those that do have issues.

Secondly as someone with sight issues and being partially sighted I do take offence though to your attempt to turn sight into a joke.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

If Paul knew you were partially sighted then you would have cause to be offended. I didn't know.

To blind to see it, is a commonly used phrase, same as can't see the wood for the trees.

If you're offended in this instance, that's totally subjective to you and nothing that anyone else should care a jot about.

Now that we have notice of your impairment, we can be more careful in the future.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

In other words…..you don’t know :dunce:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Thank you - that’s all we needed to hear, although you have dodged the question I actually asked.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

And for the avoidance of any further avoidance from you I originally asked (several times) without getting any straight answer…

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Perhaps because you're the one claiming they're a big problem and yet peoples lived experiences seem at odds with that

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Thank you- that’s all we needed to hear.

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

Bullseye on top of the bullseye.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Indeed he is the one who started this thread and yet he struggles to come up with effective answers when questioned by other forum members.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

And that is the biggest bull of all..

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

An event organised en masse like that protest is going to bring out a lot of people and it did.

But you seem to be obsessed with this idea of a mass Muslim uprising on its way like it’s been planned for years.

I’ve proven that’s not the case. And I’m sure so could most/all other CF members who live or have lived in high multicultural areas.

When I pick up my son from Leicester I spend a good few hours in the city. I’m not hard to spot, my size means I tend to stand out a bit.

Not one single Muslim has ever given me grief.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Just like you’ve skimmed the point I’ve made? Fair enough.

Ok, will YOU be facing east as our apparent Muslim masters will demand?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Next they'll be insisting that only Halal meat is allowed, eg in schools, takeaways. Oh wait a minute, they DO to a large extent. Eg 71% sheep Halal slaughtered, 22% chickens.
It's ILLEGAL to use Halal or Kosher slaughter for those that don't require it.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

In which ways does that affect your life?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

People are FORCED to eat Halal meat, that hasn't been slaughtered to UK/EU standard animal welfare conditions. As I pointed out, even Halal slaughtering the meat for use by non-Muslims is ILLEGAL. Do they consume all of the that 22% of chickens slaughtered in the UK? It's a form of cartel, where only one group is allowed to supply meat products.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

How the meat was slaughtered doesn't impact my eating and enjoyment of the meat at all. I don't even think about it or question it.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

You’ve not answered my question though.

In which way does that truly impact your life?

---------- Post added at 18:38 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

Ditto. It never crossed my mind and I eat at least 4 or 5 chicken breasts a day.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

https://www.tescoplc.com/sustainabil...nimal-welfare/



---------- Post added at 18:15 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

How will that happen?

In the 2019 election, it took 14 million votes to give the Tories 360 seats (previous election 13.6 million votes to give May 316 seats, Cameron 11.3 million votes to get 330 seats).

So to get a simple majority of 330 Muslim MPs, 11.3 million Muslim votes would be required - how’s that going to happen?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

300,000 peace protestors does not make a Hamas support march. People calling for a ceasefire are looking for a pause in fighting that allows for talks about the future and how to achieve peace.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

You know that there weren't 300,000 Hamas supporting protestors in London. Why the constant trolling?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Do you eat fish? If so you have probably been eating Halal. All fish, unless it has been farmed, is Halal.

Also, did you know that the standards of Kosher meat are almost the same as for Halal?

For slaughtered meat to be Halal or Kosher, it is important that the animal has been reared with high standards of husbandry, basically organically. Halal and Kosher meat animals are often raised on the same farms. It is also important that the animal is kept calm and content until it is killed. This is to reduce the amount of adrenaline released into the tissue and also because the Prophet demanded that all of Allah's creation is treated well. Traditionally, the animal is led to a feeding stall. While it is eating, a surgically sharp blade is passed through its jugular and windpipe. Properly done, the animal doesn't know it has been cut before it is unconscious. The slaughtered animal is then hung upside-down to bleed out. Blood is not consumed in Islam or Judaism. In both traditions the animal is blessed before slaughter.

Nowadays, because of UK traditions, and the perception that they are a less cruel way of killing an animal, the animal must be stunned before it has its throat cut. This is done with an electric shock or a stun gun.

Having witnessed both methods being done professionally my personal view is that traditional Islamic and Jewish methods are more humane if done properly. Maybe my view has been affected by seeing a 'stunned' cow hung upside-down whilst still conscious and having its abdomen cut open and screaming in pain and terror.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Good grief. :sleep:

---------- Post added at 19:18 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Wow, I thought I ate a lot of chicken, but I'm nowhere near that. :shocked:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

It’s why you look the way you do and I look the way I do :D

J/K :angel:

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Wow, I didn’t know it was illegal to eat Halal meat. Which law am I breaking by going to the local kebab shop? What sort of sentence should I expect if the rozzers come calling?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

What a load of cobblers, I know quite a few people who went on the march and I can tell you they certainly aren't muslims. Next you'll be saying it was 300,000 gun carrying terrorists.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Your description of the 300,000 seems to change from post to post, probably related to how intolerant you're feeling at the time. Look back through some your posts and you'll see how daft the statements about the 300,000 are.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

It is you that has to prove your assertion. Given there is no evidence that all 300,000 marchers are Hamas supporters, you have all your work ahead of you to prove different.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Hello pot, meet kettle. I see you’re both the same colour.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Not sure I’ve said “we” need to eat that many.

Still waiting for a genuine answer to my question that isn’t a derivative of “I just don’t know” seeing as anything more substantial than that might go some way to giving your opinion a much-needed shot in the arm.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

OK, no problem, here're are just a couple of examples of you changing description of the 300,000, but anybody reading your posts will know there are more versions out there:

And I would add, from what I see on here, the majority of the scare mongering posts are by older out of touch people who just have a thing against Muslims and who really haven't got a clue what they're on about beyond what their blind political allegiance tells them to do/say? The people I know who went on the march are highly qualified, professional and well paid people in their 40's, 50's and older and I'm pretty sure they know quite a lot about why they felt they had to go to London to join the march.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

I am reading things very clearly. You said:

Prove it

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Enough of this friggin nonsense or you'll both be removed from the topic.


Edit: Off topic posts removed.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

More Hamas supporters. :rolleyes: https://www.facebook.com/reel/362555033027631

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Does that challenge your stereotype of those marching for peace?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

It should do. That was just one element of the 300,000 marching for a ceasefire on Armistice Day.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Thanks Rishi,

I agree, what the fcuk are you going to about it, as seen this issue has mushroomed totally under the torys.

Don’t talk tough about a situation totally of your own making.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

If Sunak had merely pointed out that the flow of of illegal migrants and the flow of asylum seeker was likely to increase, mostly because of the direct and indirect political effects of climate change, that would be one thing. Something has to be done to help stabilise countries badly affected by climate change and to help people mitigate the effects in their own countries. This is essential or billions will be on the move. We in Europe won't be able to cope with that!

However, Sunak goes a step further into mindless conspiracy theory. He is trying to convince us that hostile states are deliberately driving refugees towards us in an attempt to overwhelm our cultures and democracies. In spouting that dangerous garbage he is clearly trying to create a rightwing axis of agreement and action across Europe and at the same time outflank the Reform Party, Farage et al, who spout similar bile. He spends too much time with Islamophobic nutjobs like Georgia Meloni, Le Penn and his role model Modi. He sees electoral salvation in promoting an anti-immigrant narrative and Islamophobia, carefully without mentioning the words Islam or Muslim.


He should advocate ways of helping folk stay in their own countries, stop attacking the victims, speed up the processing of those already here, create safe, legal routes so we can take our fair share of refugees in a controlled way (This would outflank the people traffickers.) and concentrate with other European countries on crushing the traffickers. Will he do that? No! There's more Tory votes in attacking and demonising victims, and in creating a narrative that appeals to racists, xenophobes and Islamophobes. He even thinks he can secure the red wall with that kind of trash, but I have a feeling that the British people have more brains and compassion than that and that British values will prevail.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Given that there’s video evidence of this occurring on the Poland/Belarus border and Wagner, with its extensive influence operations across the African continent, is now officially admitted to have been an arms-length operation of the Russian government, you perhaps want to be a bit more careful about calling something a ‘mindless conspiracy theory’ just because it’s on the lips of someone whose politics you dislike.

Disagree by all means, but the charge is serious and dismissing it does rather require engagement with, and refutation of, the evidence.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Indeed,

Do people think Russia and China, who are advocating for a multi-polar world, are going to achieve this by destabilising the West militarily?

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

1. Citing a known enemy, Russia, as a diverter of refugees towards Europe, when most refugees are coming of their own volition through Europe's Mediterranean and Turkish border, is a distraction - a massive red-herring. Please understand that hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees is not a conspiracy.


2. I don't think you really want to open a discussion on your hate for Muslims and Islam again do we? You ran out of arguments last time and will run out of them again.

3. The effects of climate change in countries where refugees are coming from, include constant drought and desertification of once productive lands. e.g. in sub-Saharan Africa, Afghanistan; excessive heat, which has already killed hundreds of thousands; and increased storm surges flooding agricultural land e.g. Mekong Delta, Ganges Delta. These effects will increase and begin to include more low-lying coastal areas as general sea-level rises.

Some of these physical effects of climate change have destabilised existing regimes or democracies. For example, the event that triggered the Syrian War was a peaceful march, including whole families, against Assad's mishandling of the unprecedented drought in the region. Instead of seeking to meet their demands he had them mown down with live gunfire. Apart from the unstable near East, currently there are 15 ongoing wars in Africa, most in regions stressed by climate change. These all create refugees too.

We can help this situation in a number of ways.

a) Long-term all countries must meet their obligations regarding 1.5C and carbon zero by the dates each country pledged. Without that there is no hope.

b) Developed and wealthy countries must commit and ring-fence trillions in dollars/pounds to climate change mitigation schemes, including drilling for fresh water; continuing the growth of the great tree belts such as the one growing in the sub-Sahara (These increase local rainfall and, store carbon and retain water in the soil); education regarding methods for conserving water and growing drought resistant crops; building of sea and river defences; reforestation of water catchment areas to slow down flood water and reduce erosion of good soil.

c) Maintain properly targeted overseas aid aimed particularly at education of boys and girls, clean water supply and treatment, medical facilities and large scale green technology initiatives. Remember, overseas aid is also an investment in future markets, so not a penny is wasted if properly targeted and controlled.

4. You, and people who think like you, have debunked key British values long ago.

What are these British values? I draw your attention to the last two particularly, although given the behaviour of fascist shock troops attacking police at the Cenotaph recently, I am concerned about the rule of law too.

* democracy.
* the rule of law.
* individual liberty.
* mutual respect.
* tolerance of those of different faiths and beliefs.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:06 ----------

Nothing stopped Sunak mentioning Russia, Belarus or Wagner operations in Africa, but he didn't. He knows that there is no evidence and they aren't his intended target. His target is deliberately nefarious because he is gaslighting his potential electorate and assumes that they are mindless sponges for that kind of rhetoric and conspiracy theory. He wants the blame to fall in Islamic countries and on an Islamic conspiracy. There's votes in that, not on blaming Russia.

The Italians have been more specific trying to blame the migration effects of climate change on Russia. They ignore the fact that drought, hunger, starvation and 15 African wars are the real main cause.

Italy’s Defense Ministry declined to share evidence showing the Wagner Group’s involvement. I wonder why? Prigozhin said that Wagner has “no idea what’s going on with the migrant crisis,” and that Italy’s defense minister should face his own problems instead of “looking around.”

Migration and security experts, while not privy to Italy’s intelligence, say that Wagner is surely not the primary cause of the surge. Though mercenaries do operate in Libya — a major jumping-off point for migrants — their troops are primarily headquartered at bases far from the shore.

“Wagner has indeed become this new boogeyman,” said Wolfram Lacher, a researcher on Libya at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs.

There’s another reason to discount the Wagner explanation: The spike of crossings is being fed, primarily, by a country where Wagner does not operate. While most boats used to depart from Libya, the slight majority now take off from neighboring Tunisia, a result of the country’s deteriorating political situation.

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

Re: Multiculturalism is dangerous
 

There is too much coffee in this topic.