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Pierre

23-08-2023 12:53

Re: Trump Organization Found Guilty Of Tax Fraud At Trial

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36159058)

I wouldn't be so sure. Trump is clearly not the man he was last year. A Trump-Biden debate could end up making Biden look like someone with the intellect of Stephen Fry and the physique of Joe Calzaghe in his hey day. Well, I might be exaggerating slightly but you get my drift. :D

That's not a reflection of any uptick in Biden but more reflective of where Trump is now - unsteady on his feet, slurring his words, promising to release reports then not and hiding from his opponents with appearances limited to uber friendly YouTube channels.

How's he hiding from his opponents?

In any event, Biden's cognitive issues have been evident for sometime. He's been on holiday/convalescense for over 30% of his tenure so far.

Have you actually watched any videos of Biden over the last 12months?

TheDaddy

23-08-2023 14:37

Re: Trump Organization Found Guilty Of Tax Fraud At Trial

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36159059)

Donny spent a quarter of his presidency at one of his golf courses and of course he's hiding from them, they'll rip him apart in debates, I suspect he's wagering no one will be watching to see them ripping apart his empty chair

Damien

23-08-2023 15:04

Re: Trump’s Troubles

It's crazy how both parties seem determined to put up their worst possible candidate.

The only person that Biden could beat from the Republican line-up is Trump. The only way the Democrats could lose to Trump is if they pick Biden.

If either party put someone senile, someone who hadn't tried a coup, someone that isn't under multiple investigations and someone who is somewhat normal they would probably win the White House easily.

1andrew1

23-08-2023 16:10

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36159061)

It's crazy how both parties seem determined to put up their worst possible candidate.

The only person that Biden could beat from the Republican line-up is Trump. The only way the Democrats could lose to Trump is if they pick Biden.

If either party put someone senile, someone who hadn't tried a coup, someone that isn't under multiple investigations and someone who is somewhat normal they would probably win the White House easily.

I think you mean someone's who's not senile? Both parties are skilled at putting up senile candidates. ;)

1andrew1

23-08-2023 20:25

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Sad to see this. Rightly or wrongly, Giuliani's reputation until recently was good based on his zero tolerance approach as New York Mayor. Since he caught a ride in the Trump taxi, his reputation has been shredded.

Quote:

Rudy Giuliani surrenders in Fulton County after $150,000 bond agreed

Giuliani’s surrender on racketeering charges marks a low point for the former prosecutor who made a name with racketeering cases

The former New York mayor and lawyer for Donald Trump, Rudy Giuliani, arrived in Atlanta on Wednesday in order to surrender to face charges in the sprawling Georgia elections racketeering case, hours after prosecutors released mugshots of the first two defendants to be booked.

Giuliani was seen leaving his New York apartment building early on Wednesday and then later landing by plane in Georgia. “I am going to Fulton country to comply with the law,” he said. “If I plead today, I plead not guilty.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...keteering-case

Hugh	24-08-2023 11:52

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1692874435

I see he accidentally added "for" in his first sentence…

Itshim

24-08-2023 17:40

Re: Trump’s Troubles

How do Donald Trump and Joe Biden match up in the polls?
Polls in recent months show an extremely close race between Donald Trump and Joe Biden for the presidency, should they both be nominated by their respective parties.

They are both frontrunners to win their party's nominations, so a Trump-Biden rematch is looking like the most likely outcome.

In a recent AP-NORC survey, a majority of Americans said they definitely wouldn't vote for Mr Trump in the 2024 presidential election.

However, he is still polling within the margin of error of Joe Biden in a hypothetical general election matchup.

Although Americans as a whole don't like Mr Trump, he is highly popular among Republicans - and Mr Biden is not particularly popular, either.

Mr Biden has one of the highest disapproval ratings on record for an incumbent at this point of his presidency, averaging around the mid-50s.

A recent Quinnipiac University poll found 47% of respondents would support Mr Biden and 46% would support Mr Trump in a hypothetical election between the two.

Some 3% of respondents said they were undecided, 2% said they would vote for someone else, and 2% said they would not vote. Taken from sky news sorry don't know how to copy another way :dozey:

Mr K	24-08-2023 18:06

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36159136)

He only needs to persuade a small section of decent Republicans off voting for him, and it's game over. Trump is a gift for Biden. Any other candidate the Reps would walk it.

The courtroom dramas won't help him either. Plus he can't stop his social media crap. The hardcore nutters will love it, but they aren't the majority of voters.

Chris

24-08-2023 18:08

Re: Trump’s Troubles

It doesn’t matter how fired up the MAGA base gets. The core vote doesn’t win an election, the swing vote does. And if the swing voters wouldn’t re-elect Trump based on his presidential record, they’re certainly not going to vote for him based on his criminal record.

Hugh	24-08-2023 21:03

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1692907335

Mr K	24-08-2023 21:20

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36159156)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1692907335

A 'stollen' election sounds very tasty, I do live marzipan :) Silly Donny.

GrimUpNorth

24-08-2023 22:10

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36159156)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1692907335

Someone needs to show Don how to search google, then he wouldn't make claims that are so easy to disprove.

Most viewed videos on YouTube

Pierre

24-08-2023 22:15

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36159162)

Someone needs to show Don how to search google, then he wouldn't make claims that are so easy to disprove.

Most viewed videos on YouTube

I think he’s referring to the time, it’s been less than 24hrs.

1andrew1

24-08-2023 23:08

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36159163)

I think he’s referring to the time, it’s been less than 24hrs.

Trump could do worse than hire you for his defence, Pierre. :tu:

Pierre

24-08-2023 23:43

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36159167)

Trump could do worse than hire you for his defence, Pierre. :tu:

He couldn’t afford me.

Hugh	25-08-2023 00:49

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36159167)

Trump could do worse than hire you for his defence, Pierre. :tu:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36159168)

He couldn’t afford me.

He wouldn’t pay you - he has form…

Anyhoo…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1692920947

GrimUpNorth

25-08-2023 09:05

Re: Trump’s Troubles

They were saying on CNN last night Don used the services of a bondsman which seems strange. If he shows up in court as expected etc he'll get his money back, but a bondsman charges a handsome fee AND if he skips town he'll be chased for the whole $200k. Would make a good episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter.

1andrew1

25-08-2023 09:19

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36159186)

Well, he turned up and the historic mug shot was taken.
https://news.sky.com/story/historic-...orgia-12946945

Hugh	25-08-2023 09:41

Re: Trump’s Troubles

And his stated (self-proclaimed) weight was 215 pounds, or in British money, fifteen stone five pounds…

1andrew1

25-08-2023 09:44

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36159191)

And his stated (self-proclaimed) weight was 215 pounds, or in British money, fifteen stone five pounds…

Well, whatever the truth of that, I'm sure it will go down if he's ever jailed. As a meme said yesterday, they couldn't find him 11,000 extra votes in Georgia but they can find him 12. ;)

Hugh	28-08-2023 16:54

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...s-live-updates

Quote:

Donald Trump’s criminal trial for his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results will take place in 4 March 2024, the federal judge presiding over the case in Washington ruled on Monday, marking a sharp repudiation of the former president who had sought to delay the case for years.

The schedule set by US district court judge Tanya Chutkan means Trump’s first trial defending himself against prosecutors and the special counsel Jack Smith will be the election subversion case – and it will come during the height of the 2024 Republican primary season.

Trump pleaded not guilty earlier this month to charges filed in federal district court in Washington that he conspired to defraud the United States, conspired to obstruct an official proceeding, obstructed an official proceeding and engaged in a conspiracy against rights.

The former president had asked ahead of the hearing for the trial to take place in April 2026, citing the supposed “median time” of 29.2 months* that it took to convict defendants in cases that involved the charge of conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding.

But prosecutors had argued in response that using the median time as a benchmark was misleading because it included the time it takes for jury selection, trial, verdict and several months of sentencing deliberation, rather than just the duration of pre-trial proceedings.

Quote:

* Judge Tanya Chutkan signals she disagrees with arguments made by Donald Trump’s attorneys that, based on the “median time” of similar cases, his trial should begin in 2026.

At the hearing, Chutkan said those numbers were misleading because they included the time from commencement to sentencing, not to trial.

The judge also noted that she is overseeing one of the cases cited by Trump’s lawyers in their proposed timeframe, and the delays in that matter were because of Covid-19 and a superseding indictment – none of which applied to the former president.

Damien

30-08-2023 22:42

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://news.sky.com/story/senate-re...weeks-12951001

Mitch McConnell has had another moment where he freezes up and seems to stare into the distance. The first time might be a one-off but this might indicate a problem.

Along with Biden you do wonder if there is a case for age limits now for senior office. It's not just mental acuity either but also the physical demands of the job. A role like the President requires being able to work for long days, concentrate for long amounts of time, have the energy to suddenly take up a crisis and so on.

Chris

30-08-2023 22:47

Re: Trump’s Troubles

America has a gerontocracy problem. Even the sainted Ruth Bader Ginsburg could be said to have caused the Supreme Court to end up with a baked in, generation-long conservative majority because she desperately clung on to her seat there when she could have resigned while there was still a Democrat in the White House. All she achieved by hanging on until death was to give the job of replacing her to the worst man ever to occupy the White House, something which was a known risk a good while before the 2016 election.

1andrew1

31-08-2023 16:26

Re: Trump’s Troubles

More evidence that shows that perhaps Biden and Trump are not so different in terms of their ageing.

Quote:

Just how much is Biden’s advanced age affecting his ability to do his job? That’s a valid question.

What’s infuriating, though, is how that question is used as a cudgel by the right, despite the fact that their preferred guy – Donald Trump, who continues to lead in Republican primary polls – is also an elderly man, just three years Biden’s junior, and demonstrates even more worrying signs of both cognitive and physical decline, as well as narcissism, grandiosity and dishonesty.

Still, nearly 90% of Republicans say Biden is too old to be president, but only 29% say the same about Trump, who is roughly the same age and will also leave office in his 80s if he wins in 2024.

Nor is it the case that Trump is demonstrably fitter than Biden. By many accounts, Trump’s physical and cognitive health is poor. He’s both elderly and obese, which puts him at greater risk of a host of mental and physical problems, including dementia, cancer and cardiovascular failure. He has evinced significant cognitive decline, saying he can’t remember notable conversations and events, and that he doesn’t know people he has clearly met.

During Trump’s presidency, some of those around him worried that he had lost his mind. Over the years he has grown less and less coherent, more paranoid, more conspiratorial. His speech is erratic, his thoughts disorganized, and he makes simple factual errors – for example, seeming to forget where his father was born. As Trump’s years in the Oval Office ticked by, the question of whether there was something neurologically wrong with him became all the more urgent.

The man says he can’t even remember saying he has one of the world’s best memories.

The default assumption now seems to be that Trump is simply lying, and indeed that might be the case (if it is, it should also be disqualifying). But either he’s lying or he’s not firing on all cylinders – or, perhaps, both.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ea5fd2c5&ei=27

Pierre

31-08-2023 20:44

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36159500)

More evidence that shows that perhaps Biden and Trump are not so different in terms of their ageing.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ea5fd2c5&ei=27

A very fair objective piece………………

For the sake of balance.

Quote:

Just how much is Biden’s advanced age affecting his ability to do his job? That’s a valid question.

Donald Trump, who continues to lead in Republican primary polls – is also an elderly man, just three years Biden’s junior,

he is, which is what make the comparison so stark

Quote:

and demonstrates even more worrying signs of both cognitive and physical decline,

No he doesn’t and the author fails to state what they are.

Quote:

as well as narcissism, grandiosity and dishonesty.

I don’t disagree but nothing to do with his health and tells you all you need to know about the author’s position. So not a balanced piece. I would usually just stop there.

Quote:

Still, nearly 90% of Republicans say Biden is too old to be president, but only 29% say the same about Trump, who is roughly the same age and will also leave office in his 80s if he wins in 2024.

It’s not his age, it is the consistently well documented cognitive issues, that try as they might they cannot hide.

Quote:

Nor is it the case that Trump is demonstrably fitter than Biden.

Well, let’s see Biden play 18 holes.

The was a video just the other day where Trump flicked the ball up with his putter and caught it.

I’m not saying that means he’s anything special but, as a golfer, I know that takes reflexes, coordination and a little skill.

Quote:

By many

unsubstantiated I.e. from the authors imagination

Quote:

accounts, Trump’s physical and cognitive health is poor.

Trump has just done a long form interview with Carlson, he sells out arenas.

They won’t let you talk to Biden.

Quote:

He’s both elderly and obese, which puts him at greater risk of a host of mental and physical problems, including dementia, cancer and cardiovascular failure. He has evinced significant cognitive decline, saying he can’t remember notable conversations and events, and that he doesn’t know people he has clearly met.

He is at risk. But that’s all.

And if not remembering people you’ve met, or what you said, is a sign of dementia, well. I’m 53 and that happens to me all the time.

Quote:

During Trump’s presidency, some of those around him worried that he had lost his mind. Over the years he has grown less and less coherent, more paranoid, more conspiratorial. His speech is erratic, his thoughts disorganized, and he makes simple factual errors – for example, seeming to forget where his father was born. As Trump’s years in the Oval Office ticked by, the question of whether there was something neurologically wrong with him became all the more urgent.

All opinion

Quote:

The man says he can’t even remember saying he has one of the world’s best memories.

The default assumption now seems to be that Trump is simply lying, and indeed that might be the case (if it is, it should also be disqualifying). But either he’s lying or he’s not firing on all cylinders – or, perhaps, both.

The whole thing is a third rate opinion piece.

Must do better.

1andrew1

03-09-2023 13:15

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36159508)

A very fair objective piece………………

For the sake of balance.

he is, which is what make the comparison so stark
No he doesn’t and the author fails to state what they are.

I don’t disagree but nothing to do with his health and tells you all you need to know about the author’s position. So not a balanced piece. I would usually just stop there.

It’s not his age, it is the consistently well documented cognitive issues, that try as they might they cannot hide.

Well, let’s see Biden play 18 holes.

The was a video just the other day where Trump flicked the ball up with his putter and caught it.

I’m not saying that means he’s anything special but, as a golfer, I know that takes reflexes, coordination and a little skill.

unsubstantiated I.e. from the authors imagination

Trump has just done a long form interview with Carlson, he sells out arenas.

They won’t let you talk to Biden.

He is at risk. But that’s all.

And if not remembering people you’ve met, or what you said, is a sign of dementia, well. I’m 53 and that happens to me all the time.

All opinion

The whole thing is a third rate opinion piece.

Must do better.

One of the better defences of Trump I've seen.

Credit to Trump for the golf trick. However, given his lifetime's dedication to golf alongside his hobbies as President and CEO, it's not entirely unexpected.

Not remembering stuff is not opinion - if he forgot he forgot.

The rambling Tucker Carlson X fireside chat does nothing but demonstrate Trump's cognitive issues. Give him a proper interviewer and he'll be even more to pieces than he was with Carlson. And there seemed to be more fawning in that fireside chat than Dorries's infamous fangirl "interview" of Johnson on GBN.

But if anyone still has any doubt about his cognitive issues, look at his latest attempted money-earner: selling a T-shirt of him surrendering to the Georgia Police with the words "Never surrender" on it! :D
https://www.indy100.com/politics/tru...rrender-tshirt

Itshim

03-09-2023 18:49

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36159632)

And the t shirt was a runaway success

pip08456

04-09-2023 00:45

Re: Trump’s Troubles

There's trouble at 't mill for Trump appearing.

Quote:

BREAKING: ABC News drops bombshell, reveals that “efforts to keep Donald Trump off the 2024 ballot under the 14th Amendment” are “gaining steam” as “election officials in key states are preparing legal challenges to Trump's candidacy.”

But it gets WAY worse for Donald Trump…

ABC reports that “Arizona, Michigan, and New Hampshire” are “gaining momentum” in their quest to keep insurrectionist Trump off the ballot — which would decimate Trump’s chances of winning in 2024.

Adding insult to injury for Trump, Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson tells ABC News that “she and other secretaries of state from Pennsylvania, Georgia, Nevada, New Hampshire and Maine started having conversations over a year ago about preparing for the legal challenges to Trump's candidacy.”

This news comes as legal scholars across America — from both sides of the political aisle — are calling for Trump to be banned due to Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment, which states that an elected official is not eligible to assume public office if that person "engaged in insurrection or rebellion against.”

That description fits Trump and his actions like a glove.

pip08456

04-09-2023 02:52

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Oh, and those t-shirt sales.

Quote:

BREAKING: Trump is poised to lose millions by using his mugshot to sell T-shirts if Fani Willis enforces Georgia’s copyright.

Various legal experts have noted, Trump’s sale of that mug shot, taken by the Fulton County sheriff, likely violates U.S. copyright laws.

This could mean the millions Trump is making off that photo may rightfully belong to the Fulton County sheriff — an entity that just happens to be in desperate need of funds to address the horrific conditions in the Fulton County Jail.

1andrew1

04-09-2023 06:53

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36159643)

And the t shirt was a runaway success

Looking stupid and losing money is not the conventional description of a runaway success.

pip08456

05-09-2023 17:28

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Oh dear Donald.

Quote:

BREAKING: Donald Trump is hit with more devastating news as January 6 Committee member Adam Schiff becomes the highest profile member of Congress to call for insurrectionist Trump to be banned from running for office under the 14th Amendment.

But it gets way WORSE for Trump…

In front of millions of live MSNBC viewers, Schiff declared that it’s “very clear” that Trump “engaged in acts of insurrection and rebellion against America’s government and gave aid and comfort to those who do” — so he MUST be “disqualified from the ballot because he fits the 14th Amendment’s ban on traitors and insurrectionists ‘to a ‘t.”

Congressman Schiff continued, encouraging Democrats to take this all the way up to the Supreme Court because even prominent conservative constitutional scholars believe that this is a “legitimate issue” — and that traitor Trump must be banned from running.

This new endorsement from Congressman Schiff is the latest sign that the will to ban Trump from running for office under the 14th Amendment is gaining steam. The damn appears to be breaking — and Trump worst nightmare just might be coming true.

Hugh	05-09-2023 18:47

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Here’s an article that goes into a bit more depth…

https://wapo.st/3P7dxnW

Damien

05-09-2023 19:14

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Not sure that will work and will only embolden him and his supporters.

Americans saw what happened on January 6th, they saw his antics beforehand, and they saw his supporters storm the center of their democracy to overturn an election. They know all that and they get to decide to make of it.

Pierre

05-09-2023 20:50

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36159710)

Oh dear Donald.

Can demand all they want they have to prove it, and under 1st amendment rights it’s very difficult to pin that on him.

Hugh	06-09-2023 19:03

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2405713.html

Quote:

As he pleaded with a federal judge for leniency on 5 September, the former leader of the far-right Proud Boys admitted that Donald Trump lost the 2020 presidential election.

Enrique Tarrio, 39, was sentenced to 22 years in prison for orchestrating a failed plot to keep the former president in power – marking the longest sentence ever to date among the hundreds of cases connected to the Capitol riot on 6 January, 2021, an attack fuelled by Mr Trump’s false narrative that the election was “stolen” from him and “rigged” against him.

Before his sentence was handed down in US District Court in Washington DC, Tarrio apologised for his actions, branded the Capitol riot a “national embarrassment” and vowed that his days of meddling in politics are over.

He also publicly denounced his false claims that the election was “stolen” from Mr Trump.

“My candidate lost,” he admitted.

What happened on January 6 was a national embarrassment ... I do not think what happened that day was acceptable,” he said.

Choking up with emotion, Tarrio said that he had let his family down with his actions as he begged the judge not to rob him of his 40s behind bars.

“I am not a political zealot. Inflicting harm or changing the results of the election was not my goal,” Tarrio said. “Please show me mercy. I ask you that you not take my 40s from me.”

He added: “When I get back home I want nothing to do with politics, groups, activism or rallies ... and when you walk out that door your honour, I won’t be saying anything other than that.”

But the admission came too late to save him from being hit with the longest prison sentence to date over the Capitol riot that resulted in five deaths and hundreds of law enforcement officers injured.

US District Judge Timothy Kelly said that Tarrio was the “ultimate leader” of the Proud Boys’ conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election in Mr Trump’s favour.

Pierre

06-09-2023 20:19

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36159740)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2405713.html

A total irrelevance, but always nice to see the beaten beg for clemency.

Hugh	26-09-2023 22:02

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-...se-2023-09-26/

Quote:

Donald Trump and his family business were found liable for fraud on Tuesday by a New York judge in state Attorney General Letitia James' civil lawsuit accusing the former U.S. president of illegally inflating his assets and net worth.

The decision was issued by Justice Arthur Engoron of the New York state court in Manhattan.

James sued Trump in Sept. 2022, accusing him and the Trump Organization of lying for a decade about asset values and his net worth to get better terms on bank loans and insurance.

She has said Trump inflated his net worth by as much as $2.23 billion, and by one measure as much as $3.6 billion, on annual financial statements given to banks and insurers.

The attorney general has said assets whose values were inflated included Trump's Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, his penthouse apartment in Manhattan's Trump Tower, and various office buildings and golf courses.

Lawyers for Trump and the other defendants did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

Engoron said James had established liability for false valuations of several properties, including Mar-a-Lago and the penthouse, and chided Trump for offering defenses in a deposition that were "wholly without basis in law or fact."

"He claims that if the values of the property have gone up in the years since the (financial statements) were submitted, then the numbers were not inflated at that time," Engoron wrote.

"He also seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a 'buyer from Saudi Arabia' to pay any price he suggests."

A trial is scheduled for Oct. 2, and could last well into December.

1andrew1

26-09-2023 22:18

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36160745)

https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-...se-2023-09-26/

Hands up anyone who was surprised by this finding? Not me!

Hugh	26-09-2023 22:40

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1695764388

Judge Engoron has found that Donald Trump committed fraud, and has ordered the cancellation of all of his New York business certificates, and the dissolution of the Trump Organization.

This explains it more clearly.

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...les-rcna117493

Quote:

In case anyone needs a refresher, it was exactly a year ago this week when New York Attorney General Letitia James announced a sweeping lawsuit against the former president and the Trump Organization. The civil case was rather devastating: The state attorney general’s office, pointing to more than 200 instances of fraud over 10 years, announced that it was seeking roughly $250 million in civil penalties.

As a New York Times report explained, that case is still ongoing, but James' office has won "a major victory" now that a judge has concluded that Trump did, in fact, fraudulently inflate the value of his assets "to obtain favorable loans and insurance deals."

What this latest ruling indicates is that the evidence was so clear that a trial isn't necessary to prove the underlying claim about Trump defrauding lenders. The judge agreed that James' argument about Trump's financial misconduct was true, and elements of the defense from the former president were ultimately "preposterous."

The AP's report added that Engoron "ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded as punishment, making it difficult or impossible for them to do business in New York, and said he would continue to have an independent monitor oversee the Trump Organization’s operations."

This means the trial starting next month will be limited to how much the defendants should pay in damages.

Mr K	27-09-2023 07:18

Re: Trump’s Troubles

He's very naughty boy! He cheats at golf too.

Hom3r

27-09-2023 20:09

Re: Trump’s Troubles

It wouldn't surprise me if he became president again.

Pierre

27-09-2023 20:41

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36160803)

It wouldn't surprise me if he became president again.

If runs against Biden it’s almost certain.

I’m just looking forward to seeing the inventive way they remove Biden in the next year and parachute in Newsome or whoever.

pip08456

27-09-2023 21:44

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

The child's had a tantrum.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1695847286

Chris

27-09-2023 21:49

Re: Trump’s Troubles

So Mar-a-Lago could be worth £1.8 billion. But he’s still taking campaign-style donations for his legal defence.

Hugh	27-09-2023 22:11

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36160807)

So Mar-a-Lago could be worth £1.8 billion. But he’s still taking campaign-style donations for his legal defence.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1695849025

Pierre

27-09-2023 22:38

Re: Trump’s Troubles

It’s all still peripheral fluff. Which won’t impact his presidential run at all.

TheDaddy

30-09-2023 14:54

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Donny and his eastern European rental have been renegotiating their prenup, got to wonder what's in it for him really, does she make any difference to his presidential credentials or is it because a wife can't be forced to testify against her husband, can't think of anther reason he's going from prenup to postnup

Hugh	03-10-2023 20:51

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

While in court today, Donald Trump posted on Truth Social, attacking Judge Engoron’s clerk, calling her “Shumer’s girlfriend” and linking to her Instagram account.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1696362185

The judge then issued a limited gag order.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-let...516f29b5a43d33

Quote:

Judge Arthur Engoron issued the order, which applies to all parties in the case and pertains only to verbal attacks on court staff. It came after Trump recirculated a disparaging social media post about Engoron’s principal law clerk, Allison Greenfield.

Without naming Trump, Engoron said that a defendant in the case “posted to a social media account a disparaging, untrue and personally identifying post about a member of my staff.” He added that “personal attacks on members of my court staff are unacceptable, not appropriate” and not tolerated.

Trump had already deleted the post. Engoron said he ordered it gone.

Hugh	06-10-2023 09:33

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Donald Trump: I’ll take over as Speaker for 90 days

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6...8af3ae4b753834

Quote:

Donald Trump has said he will accept the speakership of the House of Representatives for up to 90 days in an effort to unite the fractured Republican Party.

Speaking to Fox News on Thursday night, the former president, 77, said that he was willing to step in and serve as the “unifier” of his party, days after his supporters in the House voted to remove Kevin McCarthy, another Republican, prompting a crisis that threatens to leave lasting divisions.

“I have been asked to speak as a unifier because I have so many friends in Congress,” Trump said. “If they don’t get the vote, they have asked me if I would consider taking the speakership until they get somebody longer term, because I am running for president.”

“I would only do it for the party,” he said, stressing that his focus was on his presidential campaign...

… Some of his supporters in the House, such as Marjorie Taylor Greene, the Georgia congresswoman, have argued that Trump would be the best candidate for the speakership, the third most senior position in the United States behind the president and vice-president.

Were Trump to win the backing of colleagues, the party would have to change its rules to accommodate him.

Trump is ineligible as Republicans bar people with felony indictments from serving in the role. Trump is facing 91 criminal charges in the four cases.

If this were to go ahead, if anything unfortunate were to happen to the President and Vice-President, the Speaker would become Acting President (there is some debate about this, as Trump would not be an elected (by the people) Member of Congress, but an appointed Speaker (which has never happened before)).

1andrew1

20-10-2023 20:57

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Don't get your hopes up, folks! His post now been taken down so I can't see Trump going to jail for this offence.

Quote:

Donald Trump threatened with jail after breaking gag order in $250m fraud case

The former president made a personal attack against a judge’s staff member in a since-deleted post. While it was removed from Truth Social after a gag order was put in place, the post was still available on Trump’s campaign website.

Donald Trump could face jail after violating his gag order with an "untrue and disparaging post".

Judge Arthur Engoron, presiding over Trump's $250m (£206m) New York civil fraud case, said the former president could be sent to prison for failing to comply with the partial suppression order.

At the start of October, Judge Engoron ordered a Truth Social post be removed and imposed a limited gag order "with respect to posting or publicly speaking about any member of my staff".

On Friday morning however, the judge noted that the post was still available on Trump's 2024 campaign website, which violated the order. It has since been removed.

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...-case-12988477

Hugh	20-10-2023 21:22

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://wapo.st/49fwNJt

Quote:

Trump co-defendant Kenneth Chesebro pleads guilty in Georgia election case

Chesebro became the second former Trump lawyer to plead guilty in as many days, following Sidney Powell on Thursday

ATLANTA — Kenneth Chesebro, a former lawyer for Donald Trump’s campaign, pleaded guilty Friday to illegally conspiring to overturn Trump’s 2020 election loss in Georgia, a deal in which he will avoid jail time and agreed to provide evidence that could implicate other co-defendants, including Trump himself.

Chesebro pleaded guilty to a single felony count of conspiracy to file false documents and accepted a sentence of three to five years of probation, a $1,000 fine, $5,000 in restitution to the state of Georgia, an apology letter, 100 hours of community service and a promise to testify truthfully against any other co-defendants in the case, should they go to trial.

1andrew1

20-10-2023 21:50

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36162403)

https://wapo.st/49fwNJt

Quote:

...and a promise to testify truthfully against any other co-defendants in the case, should they go to trial.

I assume that primarily means Trump.

Chris

20-10-2023 22:27

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Yup. He (and Powell yesterday) have turned State’s evidence. A plea deal so they get a light sentence in return for fingering the one the prosecutors really want.

Trump’s goose is well and truly cooked.

Paul	20-10-2023 23:26

Re: Trump’s Troubles

He got slapped with a fine today.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67175328

Pierre

20-10-2023 23:47

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36162411)

Trump’s goose is well and truly cooked.

I still wouldn’t bet the farm against him being the next president.

Hugh	24-10-2023 15:26

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://wapo.st/3tMutJB

Quote:

Trump co-defendant Jenna Ellis pleads guilty in Georgia election case

ATLANTA — Jenna Ellis, a former lawyer for Donald Trump’s 2020 campaign, pleaded guilty Tuesday to illegally conspiring to overturn Trump’s 2020 election loss in Georgia, making her the third attorney associated with the former president to accept a plea deal in the sweeping criminal racketeering case.

Ellis, who had been facing two charges including violating Georgia’s anti-racketeering act, pleaded guilty in court Tuesday morning pleaded guilty in court Tuesday morning to a single felony count of aiding and abetting false statements and writings. The deal allows her to avoid jail time in exchange for providing evidence that could potentially implicate other defendants and agreeing to testify in any future trials. Ellis worked closely with personal Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani, another defendant in the case who faces 13 charges.

The plea marks the first time a senior Trump aide has been held criminally accountable for and has admitted to making false statements that the 2020 presidential election was tainted by widespread fraud. In a hearing Tuesday morning, Ellis tearfully admitted that she was wrong and misled and that she no longer believes those false claims.

“If I knew then what I know now, I would have declined to represent Donald Trump in these post-election challenges,” Ellis said.

Appearing before Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee on Tuesday, Ellis and her attorneys Franklin and Laura Hogue listened as a prosecutor read out details of an amended indictment. According to the details of the agreement, Ellis agreed to complete three to five years probation and 100 hours of community service, and to pay $5,000 in restitution to the Georgia secretary of state. She agreed to write a letter of apology to the state of Georgia.

pip08456

30-10-2023 19:20

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Oh dear.

Quote:

BREAKING: Donald Trump has a middle of the night meltdown over his failing 2024 campaign and desperately lashes out at President Biden over his multiplying indictments.

This guys is clearly coming apart at the seams...

Apparently unable to sleep, Trump took to Truth Social late last night and demanded to know why "Crooked Joe Biden" didn't have the Department of Justice files its lawsuit and indictments against him "3 years ago, instead of right in the middle" of his presidential campaign.

The answer is both obvious and twofold. Firstly, Joe Biden did not have his Justice Department do anything. He is not pulling the strings behind the scenes. Investigators looked into the facts because that's their job and the facts show that Donald Trump repeatedly broke the law.

Secondly, it takes time to carry out a proper investigation. The reason the Justice Department didn't immediately indict Trump for his crimes is because they needed time to gather investigate and question witnesses. It's that simple. The timing with the election is purely coincidental.

Trump wasn't done with that little opening barrage of complaints though, and he went on to implicitly threaten to weaponize the Justice Department against Biden if he wins in 2024—

"You’re setting a BAD precedent for yourself, Joe. The same can happen to you," wrote Trump. "These Third World Biden Indictments, which should never have been filed, would have been tried and over with years ago. My SleazeBag Opponent shouldn’t be able to do this during my campaign, OR BEFORE THE ELECTION!"

These are not the words of a man who is confident in his future. These are the words of a man who feels helpless to stop all of the mountains of evidence arrayed against him.

Trump can rant on Truth Social all he wants. In the end, it won't save him.

https://twitter.com/OccupyDemocrats/...16669975359889

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:51 ----------

Donald Trump might have broken Judge Tanya Chutkan's gag order just 75 minutes after it was reinstated: Trump attacked his former attorney general — and potential witness — Bill Barr on his failed social media site.

Hugh	30-10-2023 20:56

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Trump took to Truth Social late last night and demanded to know why "Crooked Joe Biden" didn't have the Department of Justice files its lawsuit and indictments against him "3 years ago, instead of right in the middle" of his presidential campaign.

Point of Order 1 - Joe Biden wasn’t President three years ago…

Point of Order 2 - Donald Trump isn’t the nominated Republican Presidential Candidate at this time (de facto, maybe, but he hasn’t been confirmed by Republican National Convention, which takes place in July 2024).

Pierre

30-10-2023 21:18

Re: Trump’s Troubles

He’ll still be president. Most likely.

1andrew1

30-10-2023 22:28

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36163116)

He’ll still be president. Most likely.

If you mean Biden, I agree. If you mean Trump, nope.

Pierre

30-10-2023 23:28

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Biden is incapable of running.

It won’t be Biden v anyone, and if it is ..,, he’ll lose, to anyone

1andrew1

30-10-2023 23:51

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36163122)

Biden is incapable of running.

It won’t be Biden v anyone, and if it is ..,, he’ll lose, to anyone

Trump's not popular enough with the electorate to win another term, but popular enough to win the Republican nomination.

Economically, the US is doing very well so no one's going to risk that by voting for Trump, however poorly the President comes across.

Pierre

31-10-2023 13:20

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36163123)

Trump's not popular enough with the electorate to win another term, but popular enough to win the Republican nomination.

I wouldn't put my house on it.

Quote:

Economically, the US is doing very well so no one's going to risk that by voting for Trump, however poorly the President comes across.

The economy was doing well under Trump.

Biden has diminished the USA's standing in the world, the USA isn't feared...which is bad for everyone.

1andrew1

31-10-2023 13:37

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36163147)

I wouldn't put my house on it.

That's sensible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36163147)

The economy was doing well under Trump.

And now it's doing very well. I know which one voters prefer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36163147)

Biden has diminished the USA's standing in the world, the USA isn't feared...which is bad for everyone.

Trump's done worse in that area, just look at his relations with the Israeli PM!
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/202...den-rcna120078

1andrew1

31-10-2023 23:16

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Fellow Republican Presidential candidate De Santis has launched the Trump Accident Tracker in response to his competitor who seems to be suffering from the same issue he has accused Biden of.

In the interests of balance, perhaps they're not age-related, perhaps they're simply due to the pressure from the criminal cases surrounding him?

To add a bit of colour to the recent Trump gaffes:

Quote:

At his most recent campaign appearance there were hoots from the crowd in Sioux City, Iowa, when he began: “A very big hello to a place where we’ve done very well: Sioux Falls. Thank you very much Sioux Falls.”

... at a New Hampshire rally on October 23 Trump praised Viktor Orban, the Hungarian prime minister, as “the leader of Turkey”, and he informed his audience in Sioux City that “Hungary fronts on both Ukraine and Russia.” Ukraine lies between Hungary and Russia.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d...-ups-nd2rlwllw

Itshim

11-11-2023 21:18

Re: Trump’s Troubles

I think "we " will end up with trump v biden , devil and the deep blue sea comes to mind , Guess I will vote for whom ever runs as a no hope third candidate. An aside we had much better results under trump.

Mr K	11-11-2023 21:22

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36163880)

Do the Welsh have a vote in the US: election now? :confused:

1andrew1

12-11-2023 00:26

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36163880)

What results were better? The rugby?

Itshim

12-11-2023 22:07

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36163884)

Do the Welsh have a vote in the US: election now? :confused:

Hold a US passport

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36163899)

What results were better? The rugby?

USA didn't even make it to the finals ! No the family trust ( companies) made more
$ ,s under Trump. As did all our workers (via bonus scheme)

Hugh	12-11-2023 22:09

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36163937)

Hold a US passport

---------- Post added at 22:07 ---------- Previous post was at 22:02 ----------

USA didn't even make it to the finals ! No the family trust ( companies) made more
$ ,s under Trump. As did all our workers (via bonus scheme)

Don’t you have to have Residency?

Hugh	13-11-2023 15:34

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://wapo.st/47rE7Qi

Quote:

Former president Donald Trump denigrated his domestic opponents and critics during a Veterans Day speech Saturday, calling those on the other side of the aisle “vermin” and suggesting that they pose a greater threat to the United States than countries such as Russia, China or North Korea. That language is drawing rebuke from historians, who compared it to that of authoritarian leaders.

"We pledge to you that we will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists and the radical left thugs that live like vermin within the confines of our country that lie and steal and cheat on elections,” Trump said toward the end of his speech, repeating his false claims that the 2020 election was stolen. “They’ll do anything, whether legally or illegally, to destroy America and to destroy the American Dream.”

Trump went on further to state: “the threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous and grave than the threat from within. Our threat is from within. Because if you have a capable, competent, smart, tough leader, Russia, China, North Korea, they’re not going to want to play with us.”

The former president’s speech in Claremont, N.H., echoed his message of vengeance and grievance, as he called himself a “very proud election denier” and decried his legal entanglements, once again attacking the judge in a New York civil trial and re-upping his attacks on special counsel Jack Smith. In the speech, Trump once again portrayed himself as a victim of a political system that is out to get him and his supporters.

Yet Trump’s use of the word “vermin” both in his speech and in a Truth Social post on Saturday drew particular backlash.

“The language is the language that dictators use to instill fear,” said Timothy Naftali, a senior research scholar at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs. “When you dehumanize an opponent, you strip them of their constitutional rights to participate securely in a democracy because you’re saying they’re not human. That’s what dictators do.”…

… Steven Cheung, a Trump campaign spokesman, told The Post “those who try to make that ridiculous assertion are clearly snowflakes grasping for anything because they are suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome and their entire existence will be crushed when President Trump returns to the White House.”

Russ	13-11-2023 15:41

Re: Trump’s Troubles

The man is effing deranged. And to think even people over here would like to see him as president again.

Pierre

13-11-2023 16:12

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36164036)

The man is effing deranged. And to think even people over here would like to see him as president again.

For the entertainment value in seeing everybody lose their minds if he did indeed win.

Hugh	13-11-2023 16:16

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36164040)

For the entertainment value in seeing everybody lose their minds if he did indeed win.

”OK, The world was destroyed, but at least we oWnEd ThE LiBs…"

:erm:

peanut

13-11-2023 16:18

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36164036)

The man is effing deranged. And to think even people over here would like to see him as president again.

Not sure about him 'Making America great again (and again)' but he does make America / politics a little bit more interesting. Obviously not all for the right reasons. But he's never boring I'd give him that.

Russ	13-11-2023 16:48

Re: Trump’s Troubles

I’m not exactly sure when it was that America was “great” in the first place but there you go.

For the pure danger he possesses whilst in power I’d happily forgo the “entertainment factor”.

Although the pure entertainment of seeing him sent to prison would be priceless.

One can only hope….

Paul	13-11-2023 16:57

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36164036)

The man is effing deranged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36164050)

Although the pure entertainment of seeing him sent to prison would be priceless.

One can only hope….

Cool, something I can fully agree with Russ on. :D

:cool:

ianch99

13-11-2023 19:12

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Mr Trump's been reading the wrong sort of books :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2023/11/1.jpg

Hugh	23-11-2023 14:34

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

Happy Thanksgiving message from the former President (posted at 02:03am his local time).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1700750019

Chris

23-11-2023 17:38

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36164817)

Happy Thanksgiving message from the former President (posted at 02:03am his local time).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1700750019

Anyone else would have been locked up for contempt of court weeks ago. I wonder how much more of this the judge will take.

Mr K	23-11-2023 18:28

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Am currently catching up on 'Crown Court' on Talking Pictures (true it's taken me 50 years to 'catch up'....)

Keep expecting Trump to appear, to be found Not Guilty by the numpty jury of course, despite overwhelming evidence.....

TheDaddy

24-11-2023 12:30

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36164837)

Seems unlikely a jury would be involved as apparently your lawyer has to be competent enough to tick a box requesting one and sadly for donny as yet that is an unaccomplished aspiration

pip08456

01-12-2023 16:38

Re: Trump’s Troubles

George Santos has been expelled from the US House of Representatives

1andrew1

01-12-2023 17:07

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36165513)

George Santos has been expelled from the US House of Representatives

Lock him up!

Hugh	01-12-2023 17:15

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://www.reuters.com/legal/us-app...ck-2023-12-01/

Quote:

WASHINGTON, Dec 1 (Reuters) - A U.S. appeals court on Friday ruled that Donald Trump must face civil lawsuits over his role in the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol by his supporters, rejecting the former president's claim that he is immune.

A panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit found that Trump was acting "in his personal capacity as a presidential candidate" when he urged his supporters to march to the Capitol on the day of the riot. U.S. presidents are immune from civil lawsuits only for official actions.

The ruling clears the way for Trump to face lawsuits from U.S. Capitol police officers and Democratic lawmakers seeking to hold Trump responsible for the violence by his supporters during the riot, which was an attempt to overturn his 2020 election defeat.

The case is one of several civil and criminal challenges facing the frontrunner for the Republican nomination to challenge Democratic President Joe Biden in the 2024 election.

The unanimous decision focused only on whether Trump could be sued, and said nothing about the merits of the cases themselves.

Bit more detail here (no paywall)

https://wapo.st/3Gq9TSj

Quote:

The unanimous decision by a federal appeals court in Washington is expected to be appealed and also offers insight into how the court could view Trump’s argument that presidential immunity also protects him from being charged criminally for his efforts to stay in power after the 2020 election.

“When a first-term President opts to seek a second term, his campaign to win re-election is not an official presidential act,” Chief Judge Sri Srinivasan wrote for the three-judge panel. “The Office of the Presidency as an institution is agnostic about who will occupy it next.”…

… At a hearing nearly a year ago, the judges argued about how to distinguish between protected presidential speechmaking and unprotected personal agitating. One judge, a Trump appointee who served in his administration, said during the December 2022 hearing that Trump’s case was complicated because the former president was plausibly accused of instigating violence in his message to supporters.

The “arguable incitement,” Judge Gregory G. Katsas said, “makes this a hard case.”

But in the end, the judges drew the line differently, saying what mattered was not the violence of the rhetoric but the fact that Trump had offered no evidence that his speechifying before and on Jan. 6 were about anything other than his own desire for reelection.

“Trump … has made no argument as to why his actions alleged here should be treated more like the State of the Union than [a] campaign ad,” Srinivasan, an Obama appointee wrote.

Despite agreeing on the decision, all three judges wrote separately — underscoring the unprecedented and complicated questions involved. Katsas joined Srinivasan’s opinion in full, adding that “when the President speaks at campaign events … he normally does so in a private capacity,” although he “may occasionally render official speech even during a typical campaign event.” For example, he said, a president could announce he is replacing a member of the Cabinet during a campaign speech.

The decision will also impact another case in which an additional eight Capitol Police officers are suing Trump over the injuries they suffered during the riot. But Trump is likely to ask the entire D.C. Circuit to hear the case, and then the U.S. Supreme Court.

Pierre

01-12-2023 21:19

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36165515)

. Donald Trump must face civil lawsuits over his role in the Jan. 6, 2021,

He’ll bat those off, or pay them off, no jail time for civil suits.

Not really even news worthy, more clerical than criminal.

Hugh	02-12-2023 12:17

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://wapo.st/3uEfvpo

Quote:

U.S. judge rejects Trump immunity claim in Jan. 6 criminal prosecution

A federal judge on Friday rejected Donald Trump’s claim of “absolute immunity” from criminal prosecution for actions taken while he was president, setting the stage for a legal battle over presidential power probably headed to the U.S. Supreme Court and starting the clock ticking on whether the justices will agree to allow him to face trial in Washington before the 2024 election.

U.S. District Judge Tanya S. Chutkan denied Trump’s request to toss out his four-count August indictment on charges of conspiring to defraud the federal government’s election process, to obstruct Congress’s certification of the vote on Jan. 6, 2021, and to disenfranchise American voters.

“Whatever immunities a sitting President may enjoy, the United States has only one Chief Executive at a time, and that position does not confer a lifelong ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ pass,” she wrote in the 48-page opinion. She said Trump may be subject to federal investigation, indictment, prosecution, conviction and punishment for any criminal acts undertaken while in office.

“Defendant’s four-year service as Commander in Chief did not bestow on him the divine right of kings to evade the criminal accountability that governs his fellow citizens,” Chutkan added.

Chutkan said no court or any other branch of government has ever accepted Trump’s contention that former presidents enjoy “absolute immunity from criminal prosecution.” Nor, she said, was there any basis for Trump’s double jeopardy argument asserting he could not be prosecuted for a crime unless he had been impeached and convicted of those actions while in office. It defied the Constitution’s “plain meaning, original understanding, and common sense,” she wrote.

Hugh	12-12-2023 14:33

Re: Trump’s Troubles

https://wapo.st/3TmRwVY

Quote:

Supreme Court will consider fast-tracking Trump appeal in D.C. trial

The Supreme Court said Monday it will consider special counsel Jack Smith’s request to fast-track consideration of Donald Trump’s claim he is immune from prosecution for alleged election obstruction in 2020 — intensifying the legal jockeying over whether Trump’s criminal trial in D.C. will stay on schedule for early next year.

The decision by the nation’s highest court doesn’t mean that the justices will definitely short-circuit the typical appeals process, but it means they are going to hear arguments from both sides about whether they should act quickly. Trump’s lawyers were told to file briefs on the issue by Dec. 20.

The quick response by the Supreme Court came hours after Smith’s office filed its request seeking to essentially leapfrog an appeals court process that Trump has already started but which could take months to resolve. A lengthy appeal could slow the Justice Department’s push for a March trial for Trump, the front-runner for the 2024 GOP presidential nomination.

It is unusual for the government to ask the court to disrupt the judicial process, and to do so quickly. “The United States recognizes that this is an extraordinary request,” Smith wrote. “This is an extraordinary case.”

He added that without special intervention, the Supreme Court might not be able to consider the issue before the justices complete their term in June.

1andrew1

20-12-2023 00:09

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Donald Trump ineligible for the US presidency under constitution's insurrection clause, Colorado Supreme Court rules

The ruling comes as the former US leader prepares to run for the presidency in 2024.

Trump is accused of inciting riots at the US Capitol Building in an effort to overturn the result after he lost the US election in 2020.

The ruling in Colorado sets up a likely showdown in the US Supreme Court, which has the final say on constitutional matters, to decide whether the front-runner for the Republican nomination can remain in the race for the White House.

The Trump campaign has already said it will appeal to the US Supreme Court.

Trump lost Colorado by 13 percentage points in 2020 and doesn't need the state to win next year's presidential election.

But the danger for the former president is that more courts and election officials will follow Colorado's lead and exclude Trump from must-win states.

https://news.sky.com/story/donald-tr...rules-13034585

Pierre

29-12-2023 00:12

Re: Trump’s Troubles

It would seem, quite troublingly, that the USA is no longer a democracy.

Hugh	29-12-2023 00:15

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36167383)

It would seem, quite troublingly, that the USA is no longer a democracy.

In what way?

Pierre

29-12-2023 00:19

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36167384)

In what way?

By removing candidates from the ballot that have not been convicted of any wrong doing.

jfman

29-12-2023 00:35

Re: Trump’s Troubles

The downsides to skewing at a 200 year document and it’s amendments and guessing what they meant.

Hugh	29-12-2023 01:05

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36167386)

By removing candidates from the ballot that have not been convicted of any wrong doing.

States’ rights - in a constitutional federal republic, each State has its own Courts, with a right of appeal to the US Supreme Court.

Checks and balances.

https://ar.usembassy.gov/u-s-governm...nited%20States.

Quote:

While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States. The Constitution not only provides the framework for how the federal and state governments are structured, but also places significant limits on their powers. “Federal” means that there is both a national government and governments of the 50 states. A “republic” is a form of government in which the people hold power, but elect representatives to exercise that power.

Every State has different laws about how to handle violations of the 14th Amendment in a primary - Colorado ruled it had the power to disqualify, Michigan ruled it didn’t.

Update

Trump is still on the ballot, as the rulings have been put on hold pending his appeal against them (including the new one in Maine).

https://wapo.st/485hl1n

Quote:

Both states have temporarily put their decisions on hold so Trump can pursue appeals.

The challenge for the Courts is the interpretation of the 14th Amendment Section 3

Quote:

Section 3 Disqualification from Holding Office

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

It doesn’t say "been found guilty of insurrection", it states "engaged in insurrection".

Chris

29-12-2023 10:13

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36167383)

It would seem, quite troublingly, that the USA is no longer a democracy.

The USA is what it always has been. It’s a constitutional republic, federally structured, with extensive rights for federated states to conduct their own affairs.

The constitution - democratically agreed by all states - bans insurrectionists from office. Interpretation of the constitution ultimately falls to constitutional courts. Each state has a Supreme Court to handle such matters, though this will undoubtedly end up in final appeal at the federal Supreme Court eventually.

Nothing has changed, except that for the first time in that country’s history a man is trying to get (re) elected to the presidency after fomenting an insurrection to try to stop himself getting booted out after his first term.

Nobody was really talking about it as all the attention was on the civil and criminal charges he’s facing, but it was always likely to be the 14th amendment that gets him in the end.

Pierre

29-12-2023 10:29

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Doesn’t look the state court had much say in the initial Maine decision…………

https://twitter.com/kanekoathegreat/...427205273?s=12

Hugh	29-12-2023 11:11

Re: Trump’s Troubles

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36167402)

Doesn’t look the state court had much say in the initial Maine decision…………

https://twitter.com/kanekoathegreat/...427205273?s=12

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugh

Every State has different laws about how to handle violations of the 14th Amendment in a primary

https://wapo.st/3H1MU0i

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1703853160

Chris

29-12-2023 11:45

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36167402)

Doesn’t look the state court had much say in the initial Maine decision…………

https://twitter.com/kanekoathegreat/...427205273?s=12

Initial being the operative word. Maine’s Supreme Court is competent to hear an appeal should the candidate wish to make one. Though the final arbiter is the federal Supreme Court which is going to have to get involved now, much as it might have hoped to avoid doing so.

The point is, your suggestion that the USA has ceased to be a democracy represents a misunderstanding of how a republic governed by a written constitution works.

jfman

29-12-2023 17:45

Re: Trump’s Troubles

@Chris and @Hugh (although equally anyone else) - how do you see this playing out?

Pierre

29-12-2023 18:23

Re: Trump’s Troubles

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36167425)

@Chris and @Hugh (although equally anyone else) - how do you see this playing out?

Trump being the next president of the US.

In the meantime democrats will try every legal avenue open to them to prevent it, as they are terrified they can’t beat him at the ballot box.

Personally, I’d prefer DeSantis, 4 more years of Trump will not do anything to stabilise the world.

---------- Post added at 18:23 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36167406)

Though the final arbiter is the federal Supreme Court

My point being the “final arbiter”, in a democracy, should be the electorate.

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