Cable Forum
Page 3 of 17 12 3 456713 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Liz Truss Resigns [Who'll be the next Prime Minister?] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711301)

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 16:29
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Maybe a terrible look to those who hate the Tories. But there is some logic behind this. By not capping the bonuses, salaries won’t need to rise further to compensate for the cap. Banking is a competitive high wage industry and is the bread and butter service for the UK. Bonuses mean reward for success; salaries are an overhead especially in bad times.

Less emotion, more proper understanding.

Jaymoss 16-09-2022 16:34
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134322)
Maybe a terrible look to those who hate the Tories. But there is some logic behind this. By not capping the bonuses, salaries won’t need to rise further to compensate for the cap. Banking is a competitive high wage industry and is the bread and butter service for the UK. Bonuses mean reward for success; salaries are an overhead especially in bad times.

Less emotion, more proper understanding.
Problem is we have all seen them rewarded for failures

Paul 16-09-2022 16:46
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134321)
It's not gossip - Kwasi Kwarteng mentioned it to the City last week.
Which makes it a rumour/suggestion/gossip, nothing more.

If its announced as policy, you can complain then, while the govt plans for losing the next election.

jfman 16-09-2022 16:47
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36134323)
Problem is we have all seen them rewarded for failures
When you’re at the roulette wheel with taxpayers funding your losses bonuses encourage perverse behaviours.

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 16:57
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36134323)
Problem is we have all seen them rewarded for failures
That’s a different point. Corporately, the banks want this so that they become less burdened by fixed costs.

ianch99 16-09-2022 17:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134285)
Trickle up economics is back.
Never went away

Mr K 16-09-2022 18:45
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134316)
l agree with Pierre as its a terrible look in the current climate.
Grabbing the cash for themselves and their mates whilst they can Den.

1andrew1 16-09-2022 19:10
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134332)
Grabbing the cash for themselves and their mates whilst they can Den.
I think Truss and Kwarteng genuinely believe this idea is in the country's best interests.

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 20:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134334)
I think Truss and Kwarteng genuinely believe this idea is in the country's best interests.
So do I, Andrew. And we're both cleverer than they are!

OLD BOY 16-09-2022 20:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134317)
I don't think you can blame Sir Ed Davey or Sir Keir Starmer or even Boris Johnson for this move.

It's clearly a Liz Truss move which anyone with an ounce of sense would tell her not to do.
Liz is just bringing us in line with our competitors. In the end, it should increase our income as a country, which is all that matters.

Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to pay down our debt and the poor would be amongst those who would suffer for that. The strategy is to increase investment and growth to pay down our debt. That should be the focus, not the politics of envy.

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 21:12
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134343)
Liz is just bringing us in line with our competitors. In the end, it should increase our income as a country, which is all that matters.

Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to pay down our debt and the poor would be amongst those who would suffer for that. The strategy is to increase investment and growth to pay down our debt. That should be the focus, not the politics of envy.
Spot on, OB. The lefties here hate anyone making money that they can't. The others, normally reasonable, a re somewhat misguided imo.

The trouble is that there are enough lefties to around who can possibly sink the Tories in 2024 and the Labour politicians will lap this up.

Mr K 16-09-2022 21:19
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134346)
Spot on, OB. The lefties here hate anyone making money that they can't. The others, normally reasonable, a re somewhat misguided imo.

The trouble is that there are enough lefties to around who can possibly sink the Tories in 2024 and the Labour politicians will lap this up.
And when you need someone to save your life will the bankers be there then? Or will you be reliant on those lefty non profit making NHS workers? Will your last thought be, 'thank God the cap on bankers bonuses was abolished' ?

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 21:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134347)
And when you need someone to save your life will the bankers be there then? Or will you be reliant on those lefty non profit making NHS workers? Will your last thought be, 'thank God the cap on bankers bonuses was abolished' ?
Don't be silly, Mr. K. The two scenarios are unrelated.
Someone has to be bankers if we're to have a thriving finace/service sector.

GrimUpNorth 16-09-2022 22:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
I think it's the (rightly or wrongly) connection between bankers bonuses and the crash in 2008 that worries many people, indeed it worried the financial regulators enough for them to impose the cap in the first place. If it happens let's hope people are wrong and history doesn't repeat itself. Or can we afford yet another bailout?

ianch99 16-09-2022 22:43
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134346)
Spot on, OB. The lefties here hate anyone making money that they can't. The others, normally reasonable, a re somewhat misguided imo.

The trouble is that there are enough lefties to around who can possibly sink the Tories in 2024 and the Labour politicians will lap this up.
I think it is childish thinking like this that is the real problem here. If you really think that siphoning yet more money to the ultra-wealthy is the solution to this country's woes, then you are delusional.

The "politics of envy" trope is so tired, you really need to do better than this. Do you really think that allowing the wealthy to get even more wealthy will "save the country"? I know that the Tory Party members are out of touch but really, are you that naive?

jfman 16-09-2022 22:58
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134343)
Liz is just bringing us in line with our competitors. In the end, it should increase our income as a country, which is all that matters.

Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to pay down our debt and the poor would be amongst those who would suffer for that. The strategy is to increase investment and growth to pay down our debt. That should be the focus, not the politics of envy.
:rofl:

40 years of not paying down the debt what makes you think Truss is the one to have the epiphany of doing something about it.

By this flawed rationale we could decide our competitors are China and erode workers rights, living conditions, rights to political protest.

Taxing those who trousered the most wealth in the racking of up £2.5 trillion of debt as we sold off every meaningful asset the state had is very much not the politics of envy.

---------- Post added at 22:58 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134346)
Spot on, OB. The lefties here hate anyone making money that they can't. The others, normally reasonable, a re somewhat misguided imo.

The trouble is that there are enough lefties to around who can possibly sink the Tories in 2024 and the Labour politicians will lap this up.
It's not the lefties who will sink Truss - they'd not have voted for the liar who held the post previously. It's disillusioned people in the middle who will realise that whatever the Conservative party are conserving, it's not their living standards or prospects.

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 23:04
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134357)
I think it is childish thinking like this that is the real problem here. If you really think that siphoning yet more money to the ultra-wealthy is the solution to this country's woes, then you are delusional.

The "politics of envy" trope is so tired, you really need to do better than this. Do you really think that allowing the wealthy to get even more wealthy will "save the country"? I know that the Tory Party members are out of touch but really, are you that naive?
Pure leftie speak.

Hugh 16-09-2022 23:18
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134357)
I think it is childish thinking like this that is the real problem here. If you really think that siphoning yet more money to the ultra-wealthy is the solution to this country's woes, then you are delusional.

The "politics of envy" trope is so tired, you really need to do better than this. Do you really think that allowing the wealthy to get even more wealthy will "save the country"? I know that the Tory Party members are out of touch but really, are you that naive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134363)
Pure leftie speak.
Well rebutted - your in-depth analysis and point by point repudiation of his comments proved your point.

It would have been so easy to just type a simplistic ad hominem attack, but you rose above that - well done, you…

Dave42 16-09-2022 23:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134343)
Liz is just bringing us in line with our competitors. In the end, it should increase our income as a country, which is all that matters.

Otherwise, we wouldn’t be able to pay down our debt and the poor would be amongst those who would suffer for that. The strategy is to increase investment and growth to pay down our debt. That should be the focus, not the politics of envy.
nonsense OB man do you remember who caused the 2008 financial crash wasn't the lefties it was the bankers was that the politics on envy come off it OB

OLD BOY 16-09-2022 23:27
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134347)
And when you need someone to save your life will the bankers be there then? Or will you be reliant on those lefty non profit making NHS workers? Will your last thought be, 'thank God the cap on bankers bonuses was abolished' ?
Well, if my life is in the balance, I will be more likely to be helped by the people with me at the time, because NHS medical staff seem to be nowhere to be seen in an emergency.

My priority is to see more investment making its way into our economy so that we can afford to make improvements to the public services that we need and to have a Royal Commission set up to make recommendations as to how this creaking service can be made more efficient.

The present situation, frankly, is appalling. And before you make any ridiculous political comment, I would just remind you that when the Conservatives took power from Labour in 2010, Labour said that the increased spending on the NHS proposed by the government was 'reckless'! Check it out for yourself, it's true. So no lectures on how much better the NHS would be in Labour hands - it wouldn't be!

---------- Post added at 23:27 ---------- Previous post was at 23:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36134367)
nonsense OB man do you remember who caused the 2008 financial crash wasn't the lefties it was the bankers was that the politics on envy come off it OB
You are right that the crash was not caused by Labour, and I don't think anyone said it was.

However, Gordon Brown spending all our reserves didn't exactly help us weather the storm, did it?

jfman 16-09-2022 23:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
A Royal Commission to investigate 40 years of economic failure, I like it!

There's an obvious answer to what has gone wrong in the provision of public services - the fact nobody wants to pay for it. £2.5trn of debt. Billions in interest payments year on year just to service it.

---------- Post added at 23:31 ---------- Previous post was at 23:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134369)
However, Gordon Brown spending all our reserves didn't exactly help us weather the storm, did it?
Pray, tell, OB just how much was that, out of the £2.5trn?

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 23:36
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36134366)
Well rebutted - your in-depth analysis and point by point repudiation of his comments proved your point.

It would have been so easy to just type a simplistic ad hominem attack, but you rose above that - well done, you…
Why do you bother? It needs no analysis to identify leftie dogma.

jfman 16-09-2022 23:38
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134373)
Why do you bother? It needs no analysis to identify leftie dogma.
Nor the lazy right wing tropes.

In fairness to you though you're arguing at the high level about the merits of economic policy. OB is down there in the gutter howling into the abyss about Gordon Brown doing a deal that - if you are Captain Hindsight - might have saved us 0.006% of the national debt. :rofl:

Sephiroth 16-09-2022 23:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134374)
Nor the lazy right wing tropes.

In fairness to you though you're arguing at the high level about the merits of economic policy. OB is down there in the gutter howling into the abyss about Gordon Brown doing a deal that - if you are Captain Hindsight - might have saved us 0.006% of the national debt. :rofl:
Correct - and thanks!

OLD BOY 17-09-2022 00:06
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134371)
A Royal Commission to investigate 40 years of economic failure, I like it!

There's an obvious answer to what has gone wrong in the provision of public services - the fact nobody wants to pay for it. £2.5trn of debt. Billions in interest payments year on year just to service it.
The objective would be to find a more efficient way of providing the service.

jfman 17-09-2022 00:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134376)
The objective would be to find a more efficient way of providing the service.
Back into your old stomping ground then of eroding workers rights, pay and conditions then.

1andrew1 17-09-2022 00:46
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134376)
The objective would be to find a more efficient way of providing the service.
Coffey has addressed this issue: they just need to use the Oxford comma more frequently, Old Boy. ;)

Maggy 17-09-2022 09:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Back to the topic please which is our New Prime Minister:Liz Truss.

ianch99 17-09-2022 13:33
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134373)
Why do you bother? It needs no analysis to identify leftie dogma.
Put the lazy tropes to one side for a moment and try and justify in rational terms why giving more money to wealthy helps those struggling to feed their children, pay their mortage/rent and to heat their homes. It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that trickle-down economics is a failure so why do you pretend it still works? What do you personally hope to gain from supporting these policies that Truss is pushing?

You also miss the point that it was the unfettered greed, fuelled by excessive bonuses, of the casino bankers that caused the 2008 crash (see the Big Short film for an excellent exposure of this period). Truss's policy risks a repeat of this, learning nothing from history.

The other Truss policy of allowing the Energy companies to keep their obscene "war" profits, as opposed to enforcing a windfall tax like the EU have done, is another example of where the shadow figures that control her and her policies are visible. She appointed Matthew Sinclair, former boss at the right-wing TaxPayers’ Alliance, as her chief economic advisor. A hard-right economic think tank that is notoriously coy about its funding sources or backers.

Many people regard War profiteering as immoral; it seems Truss does not.

jfman 17-09-2022 14:08
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...budget-reports

Oh dear, Government looks to break long established fiscal rules and increase debt and the deficit. It’s not just the bankers at the roulette wheel seemingly. It’s the new Chancellor too.

Sephiroth 17-09-2022 14:32
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134406)
Put the lazy tropes to one side for a moment and try and justify in rational terms why giving more money to wealthy helps those struggling to feed their children, pay their mortage/rent and to heat their homes. It has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that trickle-down economics is a failure so why do you pretend it still works? What do you personally hope to gain from supporting these policies that Truss is pushing?

You also miss the point that it was the unfettered greed, fuelled by excessive bonuses, of the casino bankers that caused the 2008 crash (see the Big Short film for an excellent exposure of this period). Truss's policy risks a repeat of this, learning nothing from history.

The other Truss policy of allowing the Energy companies to keep their obscene "war" profits, as opposed to enforcing a windfall tax like the EU have done, is another example of where the shadow figures that control her and her policies are visible. She appointed Matthew Sinclair, former boss at the right-wing TaxPayers’ Alliance, as her chief economic advisor. A hard-right economic think tank that is notoriously coy about its funding sources or backers.

Many people regard War profiteering as immoral; it seems Truss does not.
I've carefully explained the rationale for removing the limits on bankers' bonuses. It's a matter of economics in our principal service industry, including the tax take.

https://obr.uk/box/tax-revenues-from...ancial-sector/

Attachment 30162

You, on the other hand (and one or two others), are taking the leftie's position of citing "wealth" and "greed" as reasons for not unshackling the economy.

jfman 17-09-2022 14:56
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134409)
I've carefully explained the rationale for removing the limits on bankers' bonuses. It's a matter of economics in our principal service industry, including the tax take.

https://obr.uk/box/tax-revenues-from...ancial-sector/

Attachment 30162

You, on the other hand (and one or two others), are taking the leftie's position of citing "wealth" and "greed" as reasons for not unshackling the economy.
The theory, at textbook level, is sound. But in practice if they're at the roulette wheel knowing the taxpayer will fundamentally back their losses - "too big to fail" - the situation necessitates tighter regulation.

If they're genuinely at the roulette wheel with their own money (no laughing at the back, please) then fair enough. Good luck to them, so long as they pay the appropriate tax of course.

ianch99 17-09-2022 15:06
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134409)
I've carefully explained the rationale for removing the limits on bankers' bonuses. It's a matter of economics in our principal service industry, including the tax take.

https://obr.uk/box/tax-revenues-from...ancial-sector/

Attachment 30162

You, on the other hand (and one or two others), are taking the leftie's position of citing "wealth" and "greed" as reasons for not unshackling the economy.
I see no explanation, only support. You ignore the real risk of greed-based decision making in financial dealings. You are obviously not a student of history.

The fact that you equate making the wealthy wealthier to "unshackling the economy" says all you need to know about the current ERG-driven Conservative thinking.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134410)
The theory, at textbook level, is sound. But in practice if they're at the roulette wheel knowing the taxpayer will fundamentally back their losses - "too big to fail" - the situation necessitates tighter regulation.

If they're genuinely at the roulette wheel with their own money (no laughing at the back, please) then fair enough. Good luck to them, so long as they pay the appropriate tax of course.
And there is the sleight of hand. The effective tax rate for these wealthy individuals, when compared with us P.A.Y.E schmucks, is the key here:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/resea...ich-really-pay

Quote:
Using anonymised data from personal tax returns, we show that in 2015-16 the average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent: the same as someone earning £100,000. But one in four of these paid 45 per cent – close to the top rate – whilst another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent—the same as someone earning £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together.
As I have said, they are laughing at us ...

jfman 17-09-2022 15:16
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134411)
I see no explanation, only support. You ignore the real risk of greed-based decision making in financial dealings. You are obviously not a student of history.

The fact that you equate making the wealthy wealthier to "unshackling the economy" says all you need to know about the current ERG-driven Conservative thinking.

---------- Post added at 15:06 ---------- Previous post was at 15:00 ----------



And there is the sleight of hand. The effective tax rate for these wealthy individuals, when compared with us P.A.Y.E schmucks, is the key here:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/resea...ich-really-pay


As I have said, they are laughing at us ...
Fundamentally this. To be 'competitive' in the gambling, sorry finance, sector that means giving the greatest tax breaks and standing behind the greatest amount of losses.

Essentially we are being mugged and told we should be grateful for it. It's a notion so ridiculous Pierre and I almost agree. Let that sink in.

Sephiroth 17-09-2022 15:56
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134413)
Fundamentally this. To be 'competitive' in the gambling, sorry finance, sector that means giving the greatest tax breaks and standing behind the greatest amount of losses.

Essentially we are being mugged and told we should be grateful for it. It's a notion so ridiculous Pierre and I almost agree. Let that sink in.
ROFLMFAO.

Paul 17-09-2022 16:17
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134411)
And there is the sleight of hand. The effective tax rate for these wealthy individuals, when compared with us P.A.Y.E schmucks, is the key here:

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/resea...ich-really-pay
I found one part of that article quite interesting.
Quote:
A one-off wealth tax on millionaire couples paid at one per cent a year for five years, we found, would raise £260 billion.

OLD BOY 17-09-2022 19:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134417)
I found one part of that article quite interesting.
The problem is how you persuade these people to continue to work and invest in the UK. What would you do in their position?

jfman 17-09-2022 20:25
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134424)
The problem is how you persuade these people to continue to work and invest in the UK. What would you do in their position?
Sit at home with 95% of his wealth in 2027 (assuming his work and investments haven't grown his position in that time.

Presumably whatever work and investments to date have resulted in them achieving such wealth are at least somewhat reliant upon being in the UK? The idea that these people would up sticks - taking the hit on any asset values in the rush out the door - is fanciful.

Paul 17-09-2022 21:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134424)
The problem is how you persuade these people to continue to work and invest in the UK. What would you do in their position?
Well, its rare I agree with jfman :erm: but actually, I'd pretty much do this ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134425)
Sit at home with 95% of his wealth in 2027 (assuming his work and investments haven't grown his position in that time.
It would probably be more than 95% as well, since I would still have income, and interest coming in after the -1% each year.

OLD BOY 17-09-2022 23:26
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134425)
Sit at home with 95% of his wealth in 2027 (assuming his work and investments haven't grown his position in that time.

Presumably whatever work and investments to date have resulted in them achieving such wealth are at least somewhat reliant upon being in the UK? The idea that these people would up sticks - taking the hit on any asset values in the rush out the door - is fanciful.
Not when you can accrue more wealth elsewhere, you wouldn’t, not if you were a true capitalist. How do you think they accrued such wealth in the first place? Certainly not by putting their feet up, which some on this forum would undoubtedly do, I’m sure!

That’s why they are lefties..and probably pretty poor!

jfman 17-09-2022 23:33
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134435)

Not when you can accrue more wealth elsewhere, you wouldn’t, not if you were a true capitalist. How do you think they accrued such wealth in the first place? Certainly not by putting their feet up, which some on this forum would undoubtedly do, I’m sure!

That’s why they are lefties..and probably pretty poor!
Why would they forego the means of generating the wealth they have created here to go abroad which has to date accrued to over a million pounds? You’re making the assumption that these are inherently easily transferable. If they were already in a position to do so they would have done so already. A windfall tax of 1% per year for 5 years is unlikely to change those numbers substantially.

I’m not sure who you are insulting by calling them “lefties” and “probably pretty poor”. It’s certainly an unhelpful and unwelcome contribution to a discussion about taxation.

ianch99 18-09-2022 00:19
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134435)
That’s why they are lefties..and probably pretty poor!
You'd be wrong.

OLD BOY 18-09-2022 01:09
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134438)
You'd be wrong.
You may be a fare exception, ian! :D

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134436)
Why would they forego the means of generating the wealth they have created here to go abroad which has to date accrued to over a million pounds? You’re making the assumption that these are inherently easily transferable. If they were already in a position to do so they would have done so already. A windfall tax of 1% per year for 5 years is unlikely to change those numbers substantially.

I’m not sure who you are insulting by calling them “lefties” and “probably pretty poor”. It’s certainly an unhelpful and unwelcome contribution to a discussion about taxation.
H'mmm...

You are not really a capitalist though, jfman, so I doubt you will understand!

I think you will find that most capitalists are not lefties. Isn't that obvious?

jfman 18-09-2022 08:21
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134439)
You may be a fare exception, ian! :D

---------- Post added at 01:09 ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 ----------



H'mmm...

You are not really a capitalist though, jfman, so I doubt you will understand!

I think you will find that most capitalists are not lefties. Isn't that obvious?
Can you address the points without throwing around political labels, which you have limited understanding of, as insults?

People who disagree with you over the role and function of the state, and who should contribute, do not automatically not understand capitalism or be “lefties”.

Maggy 18-09-2022 11:15
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Topic? I don't really see much discussion about our new PM.Let's stop commenting about other members affiliations and stick to the topic.

Paul 18-09-2022 15:58
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
I warned both of you to stop the other day, you can both take a break from this topic.

Sephiroth 18-09-2022 16:25
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 

While the entertainment is turned off, I’d like to observe what a godsend the Queen’s passing has been to Truss. The spotlight has been off her, the Opposition have had nothing to say and she has had a real opportunity to get her Ducks in a row.

1andrew1 18-09-2022 17:12
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134448)

While the entertainment is turned off, I’d like to observe what a godsend the Queen’s passing has been to Truss. The spotlight has been off her, the Opposition have had nothing to say and she has had a real opportunity to get her Ducks in a row.
Agreed. Things like The Queue have presented the country in a good light and having lots of heads of states in the country can do no harm either.

Mr K 18-09-2022 18:39
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134448)

While the entertainment is turned off, I’d like to observe what a godsend the Queen’s passing has been to Truss. The spotlight has been off her, the Opposition have had nothing to say and she has had a real opportunity to get her Ducks in a row.
She can't rely on the monarch dying every week. (Although Charlie is knocking on a bit...)

Lizzie's honeymoon will be very short and her 'Ducks' are prioritising things like bringing imperial measures back, cutting taxes for the rich, and giving bankers unlimited bonuses. She's certainly got her finger on the pulse on what the nation has been crying out for.

GrimUpNorth 18-09-2022 18:49
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134452)
She can't rely on the monarch dying every week. (Although Charlie is knocking on a bit...)

Lizzie's honeymoon will be very short and her 'Ducks' are prioritising things like bringing imperial measures back, cutting taxes for the rich, and giving bankers unlimited bonuses. She's certainly got her finger on the pulse on what the nation has been crying out for.
Well I think this coming Friday they're planning to fire starting gun on the countdown to the end of Conservative governments for a generation. Borrowing even more to fund tax cuts is a big big gamble and one the normal people (ie those described as lefties) will see through for the smoke and mirrors it is.

OLD BOY 19-09-2022 16:41
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134452)
She can't rely on the monarch dying every week. (Although Charlie is knocking on a bit...)

Lizzie's honeymoon will be very short and her 'Ducks' are prioritising things like bringing imperial measures back, cutting taxes for the rich, and giving bankers unlimited bonuses. She's certainly got her finger on the pulse on what the nation has been crying out for.
She may have a few crowd pleasers, Mr K, but don’t assume she cannot multi-task.

Liz Truss has a huge agenda, and she should be judged on her ability to navigate it successfully.

I think that is most likely to be what the electorate will do come polling day.

jfman 19-09-2022 21:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
:rofl:

You’re absolutely delusional if you think that the electorate will judge her on anything other than the ever declining living standards and public services. For which her agenda has limited meaningful impact.

Julian 19-09-2022 21:39
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
<removed>

Sephiroth 19-09-2022 21:59
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134483)
:rofl:

You’re absolutely delusional if you think that the electorate will judge her on anything other than the ever declining living standards and public services. For which her agenda has limited meaningful impact.
@OB - John has a point. It isn't difficult to read the public mood.

Truss will have to do something spectacular on the NHS/Doctor's appointment front in particular. Likewise inflation - they've got a plan but it's a gamble.

The NI Protocol business is irrelevant. The illegal immigrants problem plays to a smallish proportion of votes.

Boris pretty much broke Britain, or even Osborne 10 years ago with his sill pension reform that drove the doctors away.

Paul 19-09-2022 22:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134483)
You’re absolutely delusional if you think that the electorate will judge her on anything other than the ever declining living standards and public services. For which her agenda has limited meaningful impact.
I suspect most will judge on little more than what directly affects them - i.e. the cost of living.

1andrew1 19-09-2022 23:53
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134488)
I suspect most will judge on little more than what directly affects them - i.e. the cost of living.
I agree that's probably the key factor but I think Seph's right to add the NHS to the list.

1andrew1 20-09-2022 09:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Michelle Donelan is "re-examining the business case" for selling Channel 4. Looks like the new government is acting a bit more sensibly now that Dorries and her Twitter account have gone.
Per FT journalist: https://twitter.com/janinegibson/sta...17302723727362

OLD BOY 20-09-2022 13:02
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134500)
Michelle Donelan is "re-examining the business case" for selling Channel 4. Looks like the new government is acting a bit more sensibly now that Dorries and her Twitter account have gone.
Per FT journalist: https://twitter.com/janinegibson/sta...17302723727362
https://www.politicshome.com/news/ar...ne-safety-bill

[EXTRACT]

New Culture Secretary Michelle Donelan has said ministers plan to “re-examine the business case” for selling Channel 4, a proposal that had caused severe backlash within industry when suggested by Nadine Dorries.

Dorries, who headed the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in Boris Johnson's government until recently, claimed that public ownership was holding back the channel from competing with the likes of Netflix and Amazon and was planning legislation for its privatisation.

The proposal sparked outrage among a number of Tory grandees and media figures.

But now her successor Donelan said she is “making sure that we still agree” with the decision to take the broadcaster out of public ownership.

"We do need to reexamine the business case, and that's certainly what I'm doing,” she told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme on Tuesday.

Donelan described herself as “the type of politician that bases their decisions on evidence, that bases their decisions on listening," after questions were raised over whether the controversial Channel 4 plans would still go ahead under new Prime Minister Liz Truss.

“I will take that approach when it comes to Channel 4 and every aspect of my brief,” she added.

The MP for Chippenham also said she is a “sceptic” when it comes to the BBC licence fee, which has also been a point of contention among senior ministers.

1andrew1 20-09-2022 13:29
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36134529)
https://www.politicshome.com/news/ar...ne-safety-bill

[EXTRACT]

New Culture Secretary Michelle Donelan has said ministers plan to “re-examine the business case” for selling Channel 4, a proposal that had caused severe backlash within industry when suggested by Nadine Dorries.

Dorries, who headed the Department for Culture, Media and Sport in Boris Johnson's government until recently, claimed that public ownership was holding back the channel from competing with the likes of Netflix and Amazon and was planning legislation for its privatisation.

The proposal sparked outrage among a number of Tory grandees and media figures.

But now her successor Donelan said she is “making sure that we still agree” with the decision to take the broadcaster out of public ownership.

"We do need to reexamine the business case, and that's certainly what I'm doing,” she told BBC Radio 4's Today Programme on Tuesday.

Donelan described herself as “the type of politician that bases their decisions on evidence, that bases their decisions on listening," after questions were raised over whether the controversial Channel 4 plans would still go ahead under new Prime Minister Liz Truss.

“I will take that approach when it comes to Channel 4 and every aspect of my brief,” she added.

The MP for Chippenham also said she is a “sceptic” when it comes to the BBC licence fee, which has also been a point of contention among senior ministers.
Obviously if there was a clear case to flog it they would not have to look at it again. A waste of tax-payers money for what will end up being a policy u-turn.

jfman 20-09-2022 13:30
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Oh dear. A commitment to evidence based decision making has to be bad news for those in favour of privatisation of C4 and the end of the BBC licence fee. Since both are the dying remnants of an ideology from the 80s that we are spending hundreds of billions to prop up I can’t see anyone committing further to it in any meaningful sense.

1andrew1 20-09-2022 13:32
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
From the FT
Quote:
Channel 4’s planned privatisation has been thrown into doubt after the new UK culture secretary said she was revisiting “the business case” for selling the publicly owned broadcaster, while at the same time backing an overhaul of BBC funding.

Speaking in her first major interview since she was appointed last month, Michelle Donelan told the BBC on Tuesday that she was “re-examining” the rationale for the proposed sale of the commercially funded broadcaster “to make sure we still agree with the decision”.

While Donelan left open the possibility that she would press on with Boris Johnson’s contentious privatisation plans, the marked change of tone will raise Channel 4’s hopes of finding an alternative solution to a sale, from which the government hoped to raise at least £1bn.
Quote:
Channel 4 will see her review as potentially reopening debate about alternative reforms to its business model that stop short of a private sale.

Chief executive Alex Mahon had proposed partnering with private investors to increase the broadcaster’s investment in programming while remaining in public hands. Donelan’s predecessor Nadine Dorries flatly rejected the plan as unworkable.
12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.ft.com/content/551253ca-3577-4212-934e-8193d61a63c9

jfman 20-09-2022 13:46
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134530)
Obviously if there was a clear case to flog it they would not have to look at it again. A waste of tax-payers money for what will end up being a policy u-turn.
What’s quite funny is the implication that Nads was acting out of ideological dogma. Colour me surprised.

Damien 20-09-2022 15:38
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Looks like the removal of the cap on banker bonuses will happen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62968072

Mr K 20-09-2022 16:08
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134538)
Looks like the removal of the cap on banker bonuses will happen: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62968072
And Lizzie has admitted her tax cuts will benefit the rich most.

She's doing Labour's job for them nicely.

1andrew1 20-09-2022 16:13
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36134540)
And Lizzie has admitted her tax cuts will benefit the rich most.

She's doing Labour's job for them nicely.
She's got a big majority so she can take unpopular decisions without fear of them being thrown out by the House.

But if they're too out of tune with the electorate, she risks staying in power for only as long as her two recent predecessors.

Paul 20-09-2022 16:51
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
She'll likely stay in power until the next election.

ianch99 20-09-2022 17:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
There are mutterings that Truss will unleash "Charter Cities" on us. If true, be very afraid - this taken from her chief economic advisor's former employer :

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ch...1e_acnz6xzb7l0

Quote:
Take Hull. Given its prime location facing Europe, we've long believed it has huge potential, and yet it has failed dismally to exploit it. Suppose it became our own version of a Charter City - minimum wage and working hours regulations abolished, social benefits for working age citizens abolished (maybe a 5 year phased withdrawal), central government economic and planning and regulations abolished, no more central government development assistance but a 10% flat rate income tax, 10% Corporation Tax rate, and no capital gains tax.

Public spending as a percentage of GDP would obviously fall sharply, and those that depend on public spending would certainly feel the squeeze (although welfare recipients could be given the option of staying on benefit if they relocated outside the City). But against that, Hull would attract entrepreneurs and private investment on an unprecedented scale - and with its easy European access, much of the inflow would come from overseas. There would soon be jobs for all.

jfman 20-09-2022 17:12
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36134565)
There are mutterings that Truss will unleash "Charter Cities" on us. If true, be very afraid - this taken from her chief economic advisor's former employer :

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/ch...1e_acnz6xzb7l0
A wet dream for finance that can trickle in and back offshore but a living nightmare for anyone who actually had to live in Hull.

1andrew1 20-09-2022 17:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134558)
She'll likely stay in power until the next election.
Agreed - hadn't realised Johnson had been in power for so long as he had. She'll actually be less - probably 2 years and about 3 months.

Chris 20-09-2022 17:30
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134570)
A wet dream for finance that can trickle in and back offshore but a living nightmare for anyone who actually had to live in Hull.
TBF living in Hull is already a living nightmare.

Mr K 20-09-2022 20:02
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36134558)
She'll likely stay in power until the next election.
Great news for the opposition.

Dizzie Lizzie now says we wont even begin negotiations on a trade deal with the US for years It was all supposed to be so easy....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...de-deal-years/

Meanwhile UK plc goes down the pan. You get what you vote for.

Damien 20-09-2022 22:49
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Stamp Duty looks to be cut alongside the NI cut, the corporation tax cut and the income tax cut.

Really quite a dramatic program of tax cuts and spending at the same time. Wasn't sure she could go though with it during the leadership campaign.

Ms NTL 21-09-2022 22:52
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134600)
Stamp Duty looks to be cut alongside the NI cut, the corporation tax cut and the income tax cut.

Really quite a dramatic program of tax cuts and spending at the same time. Wasn't sure she could go though with it during the leadership campaign.
If she adds increasing the LTA, then that will be really great!

1andrew1 22-09-2022 12:36
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36134670)
If she adds increasing the LTA, then that will be really great!
I don't know what the LTA is but what's increasing today is interest rates.
Quote:
The Bank of England (BoE) has hiked interest rates by a further 0.5 per cent, bringing it to 2.25 per cent, and indicated that the country is already in a recession.

The hike, the biggest since November 2008, is the BoE’s seventh in a row in a continued attempt to tame soaring prices and inflation. It takes borrowing costs to the highest level since the global financial crisis.
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/...elated_stories

Sephiroth 22-09-2022 12:42
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 

Pension Lifetime Allowance, I reckon.


Ms NTL 22-09-2022 15:48
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36134695)

Pension Lifetime Allowance, I reckon.

That's correct!

Confirmed: NI increase 1.25% scrapped from 6-th of November.

Mr K 22-09-2022 21:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ms NTL (Post 36134709)
That's correct!

Confirmed: NI increase 1.25% scrapped from 6-th of November.
So the NHS and social care, which is what it was intended for, can go swing.

False economy folks paid for by borrowing, to be paid back by us all with interest later. Bleeding socialists.

Damien 23-09-2022 10:02
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
45% tax rate abolished.
Basic rate from 20% to 19%
NI rise cancelled.

jfman 23-09-2022 10:16
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
They've found the magic money tree.

papa smurf 23-09-2022 10:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Did he mention pensioners? i may have nodded off.

Damien 23-09-2022 10:24
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36134758)
Did he mention pensioners? i may have nodded off.
No although they'll benefit from the 1% income tax cut if they have a private pension in addition to the state one.

Maggy 23-09-2022 10:25
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134759)
No although they'll benefit from the 1% income tax cut if they have a private pension in addition to the state one.
If!

papa smurf 23-09-2022 10:29
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
i would have thought raising the standard Personal Allowance from £12,570, would have helped the poorest in society.

Damien 23-09-2022 10:30
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Even it won't be much in terms of actual cash in the pocket i don't think unless you have a very good pension.

I am not sure they were ever likely to offer much though. Each year they maintain the triple-lock is a good one for pensioners really, that was almost at risk this year.

denphone 23-09-2022 10:41
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36134757)
They've found the magic money tree.
Strange how that suddenly appears in the last 2 years of the electoral cycle.;)

daveeb 23-09-2022 10:54
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134763)
Strange how that suddenly appears in the last 2 years of the electoral cycle.;)
That's always the time they seem to start watering it :rolleyes:

jfman 23-09-2022 10:56
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
“Politically toxic and economically dubious” - one Conservative MP.

:rofl:

denphone 23-09-2022 10:59
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
And they call the Conservatives the party of economic competence.

If any other political party did this they would be crucified by large parts of the media.

denphone 23-09-2022 11:04
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
And the pound is falling. fast.

Damien 23-09-2022 11:06
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
The pound was already weak. I noticed it the other day trying to buy something in dollars.

noel43 23-09-2022 11:15
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134759)
No although they'll benefit from the 1% income tax cut if they have a private pension in addition to the state one.
But the rich Will get a 46p tax cut.

jonbxx 23-09-2022 11:17
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36134770)
And the pound is falling. fast.
On the other side, gilts yields are going up fast, increasing the cost of borrowing for the government - https://markets.ft.com/data/bonds/te...mmary?s=UK10YG

Yikes

Pierre 23-09-2022 11:20
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
It's a bonanza.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36134772)
But the rich Will get a 46p tax cut.
How do you work that out?

Damien 23-09-2022 11:22
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
I am surprised they didn't rise the 40% threshold. I thought that would be ahead of the dropping of the 45% rate. It would help a lot more people in the middle.

noel43 23-09-2022 11:31
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36134774)
It's a bonanza.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 11:20 ----------



How do you work that out?
Because they are abolishing the upper tax bracket for anyone earning more than £150,000.

GrimUpNorth 23-09-2022 11:35
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
So we've tried levelling up which didn't work now we're trying trickle down and all that's happening is the richest are still getting richer. All Liz has shown is whether up or down whatever the Conservatives call it their aim is to increase the wealth of the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

Anything traded in $'s is going to cost more so any marginal tax break enjoyed by the masses will be swallowed up in the increased cost of living.

1andrew1 23-09-2022 11:44
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
1 Attachment(s)
Guide here. Not sure many of us will need more than the first few lines. ;)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1663929848

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/3a0c52cd-...c-01fe7cd4e89e
"Kwasi Kwarteng scraps top rate of income tax in £45bn package of cuts"

1andrew1 23-09-2022 11:50
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36134771)
The pound was already weak. I noticed it the other day trying to buy something in dollars.
As Den says, it's even weaker today. The markets think we're over-leveraged.

I thought this concerning!
Quote:
The additional [£72bn] borrowing is far more expensive for the government than previously, with the two-year cost of borrowing rising to 3.9 per cent from 0.4 per cent a year ago.

jfman 23-09-2022 12:09
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36134782)
As Den says, it's even weaker today. The markets think we're over-leveraged.

I thought this concerning!
But… but… Gordon Brown…. Gold reserves….

:rofl:

Pierre 23-09-2022 13:00
Re: New Prime Minister: Liz Truss
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by noel43 (Post 36134778)
Because they are abolishing the upper tax bracket for anyone earning more than £150,000.
Help me out as I'm not great with numbers, Which is 5%. How does that equate to a 46p tax cut?


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:57.
Page 3 of 17 12 3 456713 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum