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-   -   Panic at the Pumps (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710400)

Chris 28-09-2021 16:28
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095036)
Indeed it has.

Quote:
‘Brexit I hear mentioned a lot and it no doubt will have been a factor.
‘On the other hand, it has actually helped us to change rules to be able to test more drivers more quickly.
‘So, it has actually worked in both ways.’
The figure I keep seeing at the moment is a shortfall of 100,000 drivers. I also keep seeing the industry admitting the number of EU drivers no longer working in the UK is only 16-20k. You don't have to be Einstein to see that Brexit is only responsible for around 16-20% of the problem, and in the absence of a global shortage and a pandemic-induced training delay wouldn't be causing any particularly noticeable problems at all. Funny, then, that for certain contributors on this board it's 100% of their obsession.

pip08456 28-09-2021 16:28
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095039)
Yes they can, by the time politicians got involved, it was too late (the panic was already happening).
Correct, the media started it all.

Mr K 28-09-2021 16:33
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095039)
Grant who ?.
Good question. He's the Secretary of State for Transport, apparently. I'd assumed the post must have been vacant...

jfman 28-09-2021 16:39
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095039)
Grant who ?

---------- Post added at 16:23 ---------- Previous post was at 16:23 ----------


Yes they can, by the time politicians got involved, it was too late (the panic was already happening).
And if the Government had any credibility telling people not to panic would count for something. Similarly if people had faith that the Government could intervene for the purposes of alleviating any problems.

However the Government lacks credibility and almost nobody believes they could resolve the issue within a reasonable timeframe. Entirely rational actors are going out and topping up “just in case”.

Hugh 28-09-2021 16:40
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36095042)
Indeed it has.



The figure I keep seeing at the moment is a shortfall of 100,000 drivers. I also keep seeing the industry admitting the number of EU drivers no longer working in the UK is only 16-20k. You don't have to be Einstein to see that Brexit is only responsible for around 16-20% of the problem, and in the absence of a global shortage and a pandemic-induced training delay wouldn't be causing any particularly noticeable problems at all. Funny, then, that for certain contributors on this board it's 100% of their obsession.
You’re absolutely right - but in the real world, those things happened, the noticeable problems did happen, but for certain contributors on this board it had nothing to do with it…

Chris 28-09-2021 16:49
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36095046)
You’re absolutely right - but in the real world, those things happened, the noticeable problems did happen…
Indeed. But if 80% of the shortage is caused by the pandemic, plus historically poor working conditions and low pay, and 20% or less is attributable to EU drivers no longer working in the UK, why, I wonder, are some people so desperate to obsess over the 20% rather than the 80%?

Actually I don't really wonder. It seems pretty clear that the usual suspects are continuing to latch on to anything that feeds the false "Brexit crisis" narrative they can't seem to escape from.

jonbxx 28-09-2021 16:57
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Interestingly, some of the root of this problem is the end of the cold way funnily enough. In Germany, HGV drivers were trained almost exclusively as part of their National Service, basically lugging US, UK and German tanks all over the country to face down the Red Menace. Conscription finally finished 10 years ago with no real pipeline of new drivers to replace these military trained drivers.

Of course, these drivers are getting older, retiring, getting new jobs, etc. so Germany could either attract foreign drivers or train new ones. Foreign drivers from just over the border in Poland and further afield is of course the quick easy route. Offering better pay and conditions is why there's a bigger shortage in Poland. Of course, the UK attracted its share of drivers from the former Eastern Bloc too but many have left due to COVID and, ahem, other reasons.

Offering big pay to get some of these drivers back is one thing but if these visas we're offering are like other types of visa, there's a big cost associated with it. Visas to work in the UK can be up to £1000 plus a few hundred for the NHS surcharge. My american colleague pays £625 per year for access to the NHS despite being a UK taxpayer for example.

Chris 28-09-2021 17:19
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
The government really, really doesn't want to go down the visa route though. That much is abundantly clear, and is why I think they've gone for a very short term concession. They've done enough to be able to go on the news and say they've done something, but they haven't really helped the industry. The expectation clearly is still that the industry gets its house in order and recognises the reality of supply and demand. Their demand must be met from domestic supply, and that means they're going to have to invest in the workforce instead of undercutting it.

I don't routinely scan the job vacancies newspaper pages but on the occasions when I have in the past, I have noticed that hauliers have routinely advertised for trained and time served drivers. Apprenticeship vacancies have for years been extremely rare, which is perhaps unsurprising when there's a good supply of relatively cheap, trained and mobile drivers available in Eastern Europe. The chickens are now, however, coming home to roost (even if they're not coming to your local supermarket).

1andrew1 28-09-2021 17:20
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36095047)
Indeed. But if 80% of the shortage is caused by the pandemic, plus historically poor working conditions and low pay, and 20% or less is attributable to EU drivers no longer working in the UK, why, I wonder, are some people so desperate to obsess over the 20% rather than the 80%?

Actually I don't really wonder. It seems pretty clear that the usual suspects are continuing to latch on to anything that feeds the false "Brexit crisis" narrative they can't seem to escape from.
Who are these shadowy usual suspects? For the avoidance of doubt, I've been clear it was a combination of things and cited the figures of 70k left the sector, 20k returned to Europe. But to deny that Brexit played a part as Ian Duncan Smith has done is foolish.
I've also quoted the Daily Mail which showed that other European countries have shortfalls in the HGV driver needs, but these were shown as far less than the UK's.

Sephiroth 28-09-2021 17:38
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095045)
And if the Government had any credibility telling people not to panic would count for something. Similarly if people had faith that the Government could intervene for the purposes of alleviating any problems.

However the Government lacks credibility and almost nobody believes they could resolve the issue within a reasonable timeframe. Entirely rational actors are going out and topping up “just in case”.
Quite right.

Carth 28-09-2021 18:55
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
The last Government to have any public credibility was . . .


*searching


. . . hang on, it must be noted somewhere



*still searching




. . . there has to be something, don't go away




*starting to panic




. . . aaah found it




. . . erm . . can anyone read hieroglyphics :D

Sephiroth 28-09-2021 19:10
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36095061)
The last Government to have any public credibility was . . .


*searching


. . . hang on, it must be noted somewhere



*still searching




. . . there has to be something, don't go away




*starting to panic




. . . aaah found it




. . . erm . . can anyone read hieroglyphics :D

Quote:
. . . aaah found it
Thatcher up to 1989.

1andrew1 28-09-2021 19:20
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36095063)

Thatcher up to 1989.
Yes and probably Blair's jurisdiction pre-Iraq.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095044)
Good question. He's the Secretary of State for Transport, apparently. I'd assumed the post must have been vacant...
The post may not be vacant...:D

nffc 28-09-2021 20:08
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36095047)
Indeed. But if 80% of the shortage is caused by the pandemic, plus historically poor working conditions and low pay, and 20% or less is attributable to EU drivers no longer working in the UK, why, I wonder, are some people so desperate to obsess over the 20% rather than the 80%?

Actually I don't really wonder. It seems pretty clear that the usual suspects are continuing to latch on to anything that feeds the false "Brexit crisis" narrative they can't seem to escape from.
You are exactly right here Chris.


We were short of drivers before Brexit, which has no doubt heightened the issue in the short term more than not, but in the long term will probably not.


It's obviously a reason, like all the others, why some are no longer here.



But the poor conditions, and other factors, which are nothing to do with Brexit need to sort themselves out and long term I think the government are doing the right thing distancing themselves from anything but a short term fix.


The Government can't make haulage companies pay their staff more or give them better working conditions where they don't spend 12 hours in a truck on the motorway peeing in a bottle because they don't have time to stop at services.

Carth 28-09-2021 20:10
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Could be worse, China - that powerhouse of trade and industry - are having power cuts, which is affecting those companies that moved there to take advantage of . . well whatever it was they gained in doing so.

Add a drop in production to the issues already affecting transporting stuff from there to Europe/USA and we're in for some fun and games :D


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...s-power-crunch

Won't need as many HGV drivers when there's not as much reaching the ports ;)

Pierre 28-09-2021 23:53
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
1 Attachment(s)
This was taken just earlier in the waste lands of West Yorkshire

pip08456 29-09-2021 02:00
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
LMAO at this.

Quote:
The chaos on Great Britain’s petrol station forecourts has been worsened by hundreds of panicking motorists filling their tanks with the wrong kind of fuel, breakdown services have reported.

With queues snaking hundreds of metres from some filling stations – and tension building between motorists in places, more than five times as many people as usual in the UK have mistakenly put diesel in their petrol engine or vice versa.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ith-wrong-fuel

Paul 29-09-2021 05:41
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095045)
And if the Government had any credibility telling people not to panic would count for something. Similarly if people had faith that the Government could intervene for the purposes of alleviating any problems.

However the Government lacks credibility and almost nobody believes they could resolve the issue within a reasonable timeframe. Entirely rational actors are going out and topping up “just in case”.
Full marks for another laughable attempt to pin this on 'the government'.
I really dont know how you expect to be taken seriously, or perhaps you dont, and you're just trolling again.
Its clear to everyone that this was a panic started by the media, and once it set it, no amount of words from anyone could stop it.

Mr K 29-09-2021 07:17
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095085)
Full marks for another laughable attempt to pin this on 'the government'.
I really dont know how you expect to be taken seriously, or perhaps you dont, and you're just trolling again.
Its clear to everyone that this was a panic started by the media, and once it set it, no amount of words from anyone could stop it.
Whatever the reason we have a shortage of HGV drivers. The Govt have been warned about this for several months before taking panic action like emergency visas, bringing the army in etc., and not taken that action until the proverbial has hit the fan.

The Govt are responsible as they are in charge. Not too much to expect them to do forward planning. It's what we pay their wages for.

pip08456 29-09-2021 07:54
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095087)
Whatever the reason we have a shortage of HGV drivers. The Govt have been warned about this for several months before taking panic action like emergency visas, bringing the army in etc., and not taken that action until the proverbial has hit the fan.

The Govt are responsible as they are in charge. Not too much to expect them to do forward planning. It's what we pay their wages for.
Where do you expect these HGV drivers to come from?

Considering, as many have said, the pay and conditions here are worse than anywhere else why would they come here rather than anywhere else in europe which also has a shortage?

Do you not think logistics companiies would have been better off training up drivers to replace the 20% lost by EU drivers returning home etc rather than relying on that cheap source of labour?

jfman 29-09-2021 08:56
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095085)
Full marks for another laughable attempt to pin this on 'the government'.
I really dont know how you expect to be taken seriously, or perhaps you dont, and you're just trolling again.
Its clear to everyone that this was a panic started by the media, and once it set it, no amount of words from anyone could stop it.
I’m certainly not trolling, however I don’t take the stance that the Government are absolutely passive actors in every crisis going and they get a free pass simply because they delivered Brexit. It’s going to be a massive collapse into becoming a failed state if a one off event in 2016 leaves them absolutely unaccountable forever more.

I’m more than happy to call Starmer crap if that helps matters.

The free market has shown itself incapable, or unwilling, to take actions required. For something as important as fuel supply who else is there to intervene?

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36095083)
And we trust these people to take “personal responsibility”.

jonbxx 29-09-2021 09:01
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095085)
Full marks for another laughable attempt to pin this on 'the government'.
I really dont know how you expect to be taken seriously, or perhaps you dont, and you're just trolling again.
Its clear to everyone that this was a panic started by the media, and once it set it, no amount of words from anyone could stop it.
Isn't that suggesting that the great British public believe the media more than the Government or industry experts? It doesn't bode well for the future of this country if that is the case.

(of course, everyone here is a genius who makes their own mind up and ignores the media)

pip08456 29-09-2021 09:02
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095091)
I’m certainly not trolling, however I don’t take the stance that the Government are absolutely passive actors in every crisis going and they get a free pass simply because they delivered Brexit. It’s going to be a massive collapse into becoming a failed state if a one off event in 2016 leaves them absolutely unaccountable forever more.

I’m more than happy to call Starmer crap if that helps matters.

The free market has shown itself incapable, or unwilling, to take actions required. For something as important as fuel supply who else is there to intervene?

---------- Post added at 08:56 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------



And we trust these people to take “personal responsibility”.
I trust no-one to do anything.

jfman 29-09-2021 09:03
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36095089)
Where do you expect these HGV drivers to come from?

Considering, as many have said, the pay and conditions here are worse than anywhere else why would they come here rather than anywhere else in europe which also has a shortage?

Do you not think logistics companiies would have been better off training up drivers to replace the 20% lost by EU drivers returning home etc rather than relying on that cheap source of labour?
Potentially not. There’s now a clearly limited supply across the industry which in turn allows them to charge higher prices to customers in the interim for essentially providing the same service. It’s not a market that others can readily enter to introduce supply to apply downward pressure on the price.

---------- Post added at 09:03 ---------- Previous post was at 09:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36095095)
I trust no-one to do anything.
:D quite right.

nomadking 29-09-2021 09:19
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
If you picture the average British lorry driver, chances are it's a white, middle-aged man. The UK haulage industry is dominated by them and over the next 10 years as many as 80,000 could retire.


It will leave a large hole to plug, at a time when haulage firms are having trouble recruiting. As many as 24,000 each year will be needed, says Skills for Logistics (SfL) - the body overseeing lorry driver training in the UK.
It could affect us all. The doomsday scenario of empty supermarket shelves is dismissed, but if firms have to ramp up pay to recruit drivers, that cost could trickle down to the consumer.
Guess the year. Clue: before Brexit.
Spoiler: 
Tuesday, 3 July 2007

jfman 29-09-2021 09:29
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I like their optimism.

Quote:
but if firms have to ramp up pay to recruit drivers, that cost could trickle down to the consumer.
No some altruistic owner of a haulage company is going to absorb the cost himself.

Carth 29-09-2021 10:21
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095101)

No some altruistic owner of a haulage company is going to absorb the cost himself.
. . . or look for cheaper drivers ;)

Hom3r 29-09-2021 10:29
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Well I wasted 1-1/2 hours and 5 miles of diesel trying to fill up 5 pumps were closed, and the queue to the BP near the M11 was stationary and moving 2 car lengths every 10 mins, I gave up and saw cars going into the Shell garage, woo-hoo I thought, but alas its petrol only.

So I gave up and popped to Sainsbury's to put my meds in, their fuel station didn't get there delivery yesterday.

So tomorrow I'll try the Tesco when I do my shop.

On brighter news, some people have panicked so much they put the wrong fuel in, and hopefully killed their engine.

TheDaddy 29-09-2021 10:35
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095101)
I like their optimism.



No some altruistic owner of a haulage company is going to absorb the cost himself.
The margins aren't there for them, there is no way they can compete with the bounties being offered to drivers by amazon or the supermarkets but that's okay, it's the media's fault...

Hugh 29-09-2021 10:50
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1632908968

To paraphrase Oscar Wilde…

Quote:
“'To have to save one Christmas, Mr Worthing, may be regarded as a misfortune; to have to save two looks like carelessness...”
:D

Boris Johnson - a man who sets fire to your family’s house, runs away, then turns up with a leaking bucket of water shouting "I’LL SAVE YOU!".

Carth 29-09-2021 11:03
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
You now see how brilliant Boris is at taking the helm in a crisis. :Yes:

On top of all the things he's got to manage, he now decides to save Christmas, which I'm sure many will say is a wonderful thing to save.

The thing is, if Christmas does indeed need saving, wouldn't God be the designated person to do so . . with a little help from St Nicholas?

nomadking 29-09-2021 11:09
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
So how many petrol pumps were empty because of delivery problems, rather panic buying?
If one pump ran out, other petrol stations were available.

1andrew1 29-09-2021 11:34
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I know some on the Forum will be asking us to try and see the benefits of the petrol crisis.

I guess one is that people will be far more disposed to buying an electric car than they were before it. One current issue with electric cars is range anxiety with the car running out before it can be recharged. Petrol and diesel car drivers are now experiencing this constraint too.

Hom3r 29-09-2021 11:34
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36095115)
So how many petrol pumps were empty because of delivery problems, rather panic buying?
If one pump ran out, other petrol stations were available.

See my post 228.


It is a domino effect, one runs out others take the rest, then like my Sainsbury's they delivery didn't arrive.

Carth 29-09-2021 12:00
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095118)
I know some on the Forum will be asking us to try and see the benefits of the petrol crisis.

I guess one is that people will be far more disposed to buying an electric car than they were before it. One current issue with electric cars is range anxiety with the car running out before it can be recharged. Petrol and diesel car drivers are now experiencing this constraint too.
Nah, electric cars are probably fine if you're lucky enough to have a driveway or dedicated on street parking . . . with a handy charger within 2 meters.

As for many of us, it's normally 'in, fueled, paid and out' in 5 minutes at a petrol station . . sometimes with extra purchase of a Cadburys cream egg as a treat :D

papa smurf 29-09-2021 12:05
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36095114)
You now see how brilliant Boris is at taking the helm in a crisis. :Yes:

On top of all the things he's got to manage, he now decides to save Christmas, which I'm sure many will say is a wonderful thing to save.

The thing is, if Christmas does indeed need saving, wouldn't God be the designated person to do so . . with a little help from St Nicholas?
he's going to get an HGV driver for the Coca-Cola truck:woot:

nomadking 29-09-2021 12:30
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 36095119)
See my post 228.


It is a domino effect, one runs out others take the rest, then like my Sainsbury's they delivery didn't arrive.
The point being is that if only a handful ran out in the beginning, people had plenty of other petrol stations to use in the normal manner. Was there anything like a shortage anywhere in the first place?

Hugh 29-09-2021 12:55
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36095125)
he's going to get an HGV driver for the Coca-Cola truck:woot:
Santa’s got that covered already… :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1632916521

1andrew1 29-09-2021 13:32
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36095128)
The point being is that if only a handful ran out in the beginning, people had plenty of other petrol stations to use in the normal manner. Was there anything like a shortage anywhere in the first place?
Define the first place.

Carth 29-09-2021 13:51
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095135)
Define the first place.
Before the media got wind of something? ;)

Hugh 29-09-2021 14:20
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095135)
Define the first place.
Before people started panicking... :)

Taf 29-09-2021 16:46
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Who thought "20 out of 1,200" petrol stations out of fuel was worth national news reporting? Probably knowing that reporting on it would trigger a response from many drivers? And embarrass Boris?

Just as the Labour Party Conference was about to take place. I smell a rat.

jfman 29-09-2021 16:52
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
The Department for Transport have written to HGV licence holders acknowledging problems with the supply chain and asking them to consider jobs in the industry.

Carth 29-09-2021 17:18
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095150)
The Department for Transport have written to HGV licence holders acknowledging problems with the supply chain and asking them to consider jobs in the industry.
I do hope they decide to publish some of the 'better' answers :D

heero_yuy 29-09-2021 17:24
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
My local Sainsbury's has closed their petrol station. I don't know whether it's because they're out of fuel or to stop the mayhem caused by massive queues of panic buyers.

1andrew1 29-09-2021 17:57
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36095149)
Who thought "20 out of 1,200" petrol stations out of fuel was worth national news reporting? Probably knowing that reporting on it would trigger a response from many drivers? And embarrass Boris?

Just as the Labour Party Conference was about to take place. I smell a rat.
Yes, what about electric car manufacturers hiring 10,000 HGV drivers to do nothing except drive to petrol stations and fill up? That's an equally convincing story too. :D

Media's media and clicks come before politics, although most newspapers supported the Conservative Party at the last election.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36095150)
The Department for Transport have written to HGV licence holders acknowledging problems with the supply chain and asking them to consider jobs in the industry.
Andrew Neil was tweeting that the DVLA had a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences to process.

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1443109515583496193

Taf 29-09-2021 18:40
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095161)
Andrew Neil was tweeting that the DVLA had a backlog of 54,000 HGV licences to process.
I wonder how big the list is of HGV drivers awaiting their medicals from GP's so that they can drive again?

1andrew1 29-09-2021 18:57
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36095168)
I wonder how big the list is of HGV drivers awaiting their medicals from GP's so that they can drive again?
Good point, not the kind of thing that can be done remotely.

Hom3r 29-09-2021 18:58
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36095159)
My local Sainsbury's has closed their petrol station. I don't know whether it's because they're out of fuel or to stop the mayhem caused by massive queues of panic buyers.

I was in my local Sainsbury's this morning, the woman there said they didn't get their delivery, so I guess it's the same across the board, or they could be stuck in queues to petrol stations

Carth 29-09-2021 19:34
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36095168)
I wonder how big the list is of HGV drivers awaiting their medicals from GP's so that they can drive again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095169)
Good point, not the kind of thing that can be done remotely.
Daughter had awful back pain, being sick, and above average temperature for 2 days, took the wife 97 attempts to get through to the surgery on the 3rd day . . . . to be told they'd 'ring back sometime today' :(

Thankfully now sorted with antibiotics and almost recovered.

Mr K 29-09-2021 19:48
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36095176)
Daughter had awful back pain, being sick, and above average temperature for 2 days, took the wife 97 attempts to get through to the surgery on the 3rd day . . . . to be told they'd 'ring back sometime today' :(

Thankfully now sorted with antibiotics and almost recovered.
Good to hear :tu:.

Let's hope the tax increases coming really will go to the NHS (they should also be getting £350million a week from some other source, so not sure why the tax increase is needed.)

Chris 30-09-2021 11:44
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Patchy availability on my drive in to town this morning … the first BP I come to was dry, same as it was when I tried to fill the missus’ car there on Monday. Second one close to the town centre had everything except super diesel, which I thought was a bit odd as I’d expect the over-priced stuff to go last of all (I had to put super unleaded in her 990cc Fiat Panda on Monday as that was all I could find. What a waste :cry: )

spiderplant 30-09-2021 12:07
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
This morning the Telegraph reports "Fuel diverted from big firms to forecourts".

So what happens? I pass the local Sainburys to see a fleet of double-decker buses waiting to fill up. They only just fitted under the canopy.

Pierre 30-09-2021 14:05
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
No problems here in West Yorkshire, all outlets have fuel but are limiting to £30 - £35 only.

Russ 30-09-2021 14:11
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36095234)
No problems here in West Yorkshire, all outlets have fuel but are limiting to £30 - £35 only.
Is that likely to be the case in Leeds too? I’m up there this Saturday.

Hugh 30-09-2021 14:37
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36095234)
No problems here in West Yorkshire, all outlets have fuel but are limiting to £30 - £35 only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36095235)
Is that likely to be the case in Leeds too? I’m up there this Saturday.
Depends - in North Leeds today it's quite mixed; some are empty, some have diesel only, some petrol only, and some have both (the ones with the long queues...).

Hom3r 30-09-2021 14:58
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I went to the local petrol station, There was nothing coming out of the nozzle. I walked to the kiosk and I said, have you got your pumps on? He said, no, I'm wearing flip-flops

Paul 30-09-2021 20:55
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36095094)
Isn't that suggesting that the great British public believe the media more than the Government or industry experts? It doesn't bode well for the future of this country if that is the case.
Yes (and I dont think thats exactly new either).

I'm pretty sure many now cant see any further than their Fakebook/Instcrap accounts.

1andrew1 01-10-2021 14:04
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
The Department of Transport has apparently written to German nationals in the UK with no HGV experience with some amusing responses. I guess it's just some data entry errors in their database but must have been amusing for the recipients. :D

Quote:
“We were quite surprised,” he said. “I’m sure pay and conditions for HGV drivers have improved, but ultimately I have decided to carry on in my role at an investment bank. My wife has never driven anything larger than a Volvo, so she is also intending to decline the exciting opportunity.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...cid=entnewsntp

1andrew1 01-10-2021 22:22
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Fuel supply crisis: Army tankers to deliver to petrol stations from Monday

Senior ministers have been alarmed at how slowly the fuel supply disruption is improving, with motorists still forced to queue for hours for fuel after more than a week of forecourt chaos.

Army tanker drivers are to start delivering fuel to petrol stations from Monday in an emergency government move prompted by the continuing crisis at the pumps.

Senior ministers have been alarmed at how slowly the fuel supply disruption is improving, with motorists still forced to queue for hours for fuel after more than a week of forecourt chaos.

Almost 200 soldiers - including 100 drivers - have been training with haulage firms this week, learning how to fill up tankers and petrol pumps, and the first army deliveries will be made early on Monday morning.
https://news.sky.com/story/fuel-supp...onday-12423447

Paul 02-10-2021 00:23
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Well I had to pop to both Morrisons and ASDA today, for various bits, both have petrol stations, and on route between the two, I also pass an Esso station.

None of them had any queues at all (but did have cars in them filling up) it was basically back to normal.
I would guess that since everyone filled up in panic during the week, they are probably going to be quieter than normal next week.

1andrew1 02-10-2021 10:40
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Petrol availability differs across the UK according to a government map but it definitely has improved except for those in London/South East and East Anglia.

Quote:
In the most recent map, compiled today, a traffic light system used in the review shows the South East as red, which means that fuel stock levels at filling stations are under 20%.

Most of the UK has been marked as amber, meaning that stations are between 20% and 40%.

Most of the UK has been marked as amber, meaning that stations are between 20% and 40%.

Northern Ireland is green, with at least 40% of supplies - which is the average stock level in normal times.

It compares with a snapshot taken on 25 to 26 September, which shows almost all of the UK running at less than 20% stock levels, except Northern Ireland.
https://news.sky.com/story/fuel-cris...ntrol-12422907

Taf 02-10-2021 10:47
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Apparently, motorway service stations have been prioritised for refuelling.

spiderplant 02-10-2021 11:52
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Meanwhile, from the You Couldn't Make It Up department...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-58767230

1andrew1 02-10-2021 13:46
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36095525)
Meanwhile, from the You Couldn't Make It Up department...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-58767230
This quote says it all. :D
Quote:
"The man at the front wound down his window and asked me which petrol station I was going to," he said.

"When I said I wasn't, he asked me 'Why not?' and when I said I wasn't carrying petrol, he actually said 'You could have stopped and told us you weren't a petrol tanker.'

Chris 02-10-2021 14:00
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095528)
This quote says it all. :D
And this …

Quote:
“People need to stop and think... driving a tanker, no matter what the product, is quite a pressurised job, so following them puts extra pressure on drivers already under pressure without having to worry about absolute morons."

heero_yuy 02-10-2021 16:20
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun: A PETROL station charging almost £3 per litre has sold out as Britain's fuel shortage gets WORSE in some areas.

Gulf station in west London, is charging desperate fuel-short Brits £2.93 per litre to top up - double it's normal £1.98-per-litre charge.

Countless pumps are still running on empty nation-wide, with the fuel crisis a "really big problem" in London and the South East, according to the Petrol Retailers Association (PRA).

Queues of drivers snaked along roads outside petrol stations from 1am this morning with drivers desperate to be the first-in-line for opening.

And now, 200 soldiers are set to start delivering petrol on Monday in a bid to end the crisis after going through a crash HGV course.

In a frantic bid to avoid running out - and to capitalise on the rush for petrol - the Gulf station in Sloane Avenue hiked up its cost to an eye-watering £2.93 per litre of Super Unleaded fuel.

And drivers weren't put off, with pumps selling out in a matter of hours.
Ouch!

TheDaddy 02-10-2021 16:27
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36095538)
Ouch!
£2.93 per litre

Double it's £1.98 per litre normal charge

Perhaps instead of being so desperate to avoid using the same words twice they should check their maths, surely the sun has a calculator if all else fails

heero_yuy 02-10-2021 16:58
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Well whether it's double or 50% more it's an eye-watering price that people are prepared to pay. It also smacks of profiteering.

Glad I have nearly 2/3 full tank on the motor and no commuting to do.

TheDaddy 02-10-2021 17:03
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36095540)
Well whether it's double or 50% more it's an eye-watering price that people are prepared to pay. It also smacks of profiteering.

Glad I have nearly 2/3 full tank on the motor and no commuting to do.
It is profiteering and I hope the public remembers when this is all over, exploiting peoples desperation is disgusting

I've been in hospital and then recuperating at the other half's since mid September, imagine my surprise when I came home a few days ago to find I had a full tank of petrol, pure luck as I wouldn't have been surprised if it was just above empty

Just seen on the news to expect price increases as the wholesale cost has gone up, really, they're sitting on tankers of the stuff, they really do take the piss

1andrew1 02-10-2021 17:34
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36095539)
£2.93 per litre

Double it's £1.98 per litre normal charge

Perhaps instead of being so desperate to avoid using the same words twice they should check their maths, surely the sun has a calculator if all else fails
Priti Patel must have left hers behind when she was writing an editorial there the other day! ;)

But even the pre-crisis £1.98 for super unleaded is profiteering in London, the average price here seems to be about £1.40 with supermarkets less and well-positioned stand-alone petrol stations higher.

heero_yuy 02-10-2021 17:36
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36095544)
Priti Patel must have left hers behind when she was writing an editorial there the other day! ;)
Diane Abbot surely. That doyen of maths. :D

1andrew1 02-10-2021 17:38
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 36095545)
Diane Abbot surely. That doyen of maths. :D
They're both mathematical geniuses. :D

Hom3r 02-10-2021 17:42
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I have an app called Nextdoor, someone said on it that a BP near me had a tanker there, I thought about it as it was 8:45, but went there, and I was the 4th person there.


We had to wait for the tanker to leave, and I was able to fill up and be home for 9:20pm

mrmistoffelees 02-10-2021 18:05
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Seems to be getting a lot better, just filled up with vpower diesel, slight queue but nothing out of the ordinary. It’s even come down an incredible 1p per litre

Paul 02-10-2021 22:30
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Passed four local garages today, and a couple on the way into Nottingham, no queues.

nffc 02-10-2021 23:01
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36095625)
Passed four local garages today, and a couple on the way into Nottingham, no queues.
A lot this side are still dry, though the situation is a lot better than a few days ago.

Hom3r 04-10-2021 09:52
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Using the AA traffic page, all the queues to the petrol stations seem to have gone, hopefully normality is back.

papa smurf 04-10-2021 09:59
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
no queues here just £35 limit. one garage has put price of diesel up to £141.9
others are 135-136 p/ltr

Mr K 04-10-2021 18:59
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
My brother can't get petrol in London. Serves him right for choosing a stupid area of the country to live.

Chris 04-10-2021 19:59
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I had to call the AA out this morning (two flat tyres) so I asked him if he’d been dealing with a lot of people running out of fuel. He said he hadn’t seen anyone at all, and precious little evidence of many service stations running completely dry. All due to Grangemouth refinery being so well placed for the central belt (Glasgow, Stirling, Edinburgh) in his view.

1andrew1 04-10-2021 20:04
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36095823)
I had to call the AA out this morning (two flat tyres) so I asked him if he’d been dealing with a lot of people running out of fuel. He said he hadn’t seen anyone at all, and precious little evidence of many service stations running completely dry. All due to Grangemouth refinery being so well placed for the central belt (Glasgow, Stirling, Edinburgh) in his view.
Expect a surge in house prices for homes within 30 minutes' drive of a petrol refinery! :)

TheDaddy 04-10-2021 20:33
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36095816)
My brother can't get petrol in London. Serves him right for choosing a stupid area of the country to live.
I've had no real issues really but then I've been off work for weeks been out and about though, filled up today in East London no bother at all. Down the road in Essex I didn't even see any queues

Pierre 04-10-2021 22:04
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
No probs in the Calder Valley, even the £30 limit has been lifted.

SnoopZ 04-10-2021 22:30
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
No queue or limit at my Tesco Extra Sunday morning near Cambridge compared to a week ago, the tanker sitting outside probably had something to do with it lol, so I topped up with £20s worth.

Carth 04-10-2021 22:58
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
BBC news page made me laugh. . . two ways to report the current S. East situation:

20% of petrol stations still have no fuel

or

80% of petrol stations now have fuel


which one did they choose :rolleyes:

Paul 05-10-2021 00:07
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I would think most people have filled up by now, even when they didnt need to, so stations should be quieter than normal.

Halcyon 05-10-2021 09:53
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Thankgoodness the problem is sorting itself out.


I was worried Chris Rea would be walking home for Christmas.

Maggy 05-10-2021 09:54
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Retired,a tank 3/4 full and nowhere to go. I had no need to panic.

Paul 07-10-2021 23:24
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Interesting take on part of the reason for the shortage ;

Quote:
The Government’s switch to greener petrol was a “major factor” behind the fuel crisis, industry chiefs reveal.

Petrol retailers were ‘emptying their tanks’ for the switchover to E10 fuel when garages were swiftly drained by panic buying
Quote:
Government figures reveal fuel deliveries to petrol stations remained steady over the summer despite warnings of a lack of HGV drivers.

Yet the amount of spare fuel stored fell sharply by up to 12% after Sept 1, when the Government introduced greener E10 fuel as the standard.
Quote:
I don’t blame the Government particularly but the E10 switchover clearly had an unintended consequence” said Brian Madderson, chairman of the Petrol Retailers Association

Chris 08-10-2021 08:31
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Yes, I’m seeing that “it has emerged” in various press outlets this morning. And so we discover the Petrol Retailers Association, just like the Road Haulage Association, instinctively blamed handy external factors for its problems while ignoring business decisions taken a little closer to home.

Of course with road haulage, chronic low pay and poor conditions has been the industry’s own fault. It’s unclear whether switching forecourts from E5 to E10 could have been done in a way that didn’t deliberately run down supply quite as much as it seems to have done. Still, a little honesty would have been better than lazy bandwagon hopping.

spiderplant 08-10-2021 08:50
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Not very credible. Surely if retailers wanted to run down their stocks of E5, they'd have done that in August, ready for the 1st September switchover?

Though I don't understand the need to run down the tanks at all. Petrol labelled E10 is up to 10% ethanol, so couldn't they sell E5, or an E5/E10 mix, and label it as E10? I filled up in late August and the pump was already labelled E10.

1andrew1 08-10-2021 09:02
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36096498)
Not very credible. Surely if retailers wanted to run down their stocks of E5, they'd have done that in August, ready for the 1st September switchover?

Though I don't understand the need to run down the tanks at all. Petrol labelled E10 is up to 10% ethanol, so couldn't they sell E5, or an E5/E10 mix, and label it as E10? I filled up in late August and the pump was already labelled E10.
Agreed.
How long do stocks last in tanks? Supermarket stations get filled up 2-3 times a day, suburban petrol stations every other day.

Chris 08-10-2021 09:06
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I’ve seen pumps at a few places I’ve stopped at over the past couple of months labelled E10 but locked off with a sign saying it won’t be in use until after a certain date. I don’t know why they’ve done it that way but it does seem that some places have been keeping empty tanks beneath their forecourts.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a rule against grade-mixing at the forecourt though, even if the law allows E10 to be less than 10% ethanol.

jfman 08-10-2021 09:21
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
I assume that diesel drivers were unaffected by the shortages?

papa smurf 08-10-2021 09:24
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36096504)
I assume that diesel drivers were unaffected by the shortages?
When i went they had E10 and no diesel or E5,but the garage around the corner had it all, that was 2 weeks ago ,yesterday all was back to normal.

1andrew1 08-10-2021 10:02
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36096507)
When i went they had E10 and no diesel or E5,but the garage around the corner had it all, that was 2 weeks ago ,yesterday all was back to normal.
There was a diesel-only Tesco petrol station by the Tesco Extra near me with cars only being let in through bollards once they'd confirmed they were diesel to staff. I guess they'd had enough of motorists not seeing their diesel-only signs.

Other petrol stations open after a delivery for a day, closing once it's all used up. It's still not back to normal yet here.

Chris 08-10-2021 10:23
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36096504)
I assume that diesel drivers were unaffected by the shortages?
That assumption is faulty - once the perception of shortages spread, the panic buying ensured it was so.

Paul 08-10-2021 22:50
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36096500)
Supermarket stations get filled up 2-3 times a day, suburban petrol stations every other day.
Says who ?

Ive worked in them in the past, and know people who still do.
No way do they refil that often, it would be permanant chaos at supermarket sites.

1andrew1 17-10-2021 22:09
Re: Panic at the Pumps
 
Next shortage apparently is tin foil, threatening our supplies of pies! Have people been making hats out of it or something? ;)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nning-low.html


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