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-   -   Climate Change (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710159)

Pierre 17-12-2021 20:59
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36106162)
The first change we will notice as people come out of poverty is the demand for meat will increase, with the subsequent impact that'll have on the planet.
Ironically, despite what I have posted above. The best thing to do for the environment / Climate is to lift people out of poverty. We may take a hit in the short term ( 50-100 years) but when people aren’t worried about how they’re going to feed their family tomorrow, they can then turn their attention to other matters such as the environment and climate.

That’s why it’s very rich for modern Western civilisations to preach and dictate to developing nations about their use of fossil fuels, as we’ve already benefited from them to the point we can start to move away from them, developing nations don’t have that luxury yet.

The stark reality is that fossil fuels will be around for the next 100 yrs minimum and beyond.

Mr K 17-12-2021 21:12
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106166)
What's wrong with meat? .
Cancer, heart disease, BSE, as well as climate change ....

Have a nice Nut Roast - save the planet and yourself. Merry Christmas :)

Pierre 17-12-2021 21:23
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36106175)
Cancer, heart disease, BSE, as well as climate change ....

Have a nice Nut Roast - save the planet and yourself. Merry Christmas :)
There’s meat ….and there’s meat. Just like there’s calories and there’s calories and there’s fat and there’s fat.

It’s important to know the distinctions.

My own personal philosophy is….if you can’t buy it in a greengrocers or butchers then don’t eat it. ( there’s a few exceptions such as natural yogurt etc, but you get the point)

Anything that you have to pierce the lid and/ microwave is your enemy.

Nothing wrong with meat, humans have been eating meat before they started walking upright. They haven’t been eating meat recovered and processed in factories though except for around the last 50 years.

TheDaddy 17-12-2021 21:38
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106166)
What's wrong with meat? An important food and absolutely delicious. This stuff about methane from farts and burps should be factored in not eliminated.
You need a chat with Greta, she'll set you straight, we deforest large areas to make room for grazing animals...

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36106169)
Ironically, despite what I have posted above. The best thing to do for the environment / Climate is to lift people out of poverty. We may take a hit in the short term ( 50-100 years) but when people aren’t worried about how they’re going to feed their family tomorrow, they can then turn their attention to other matters such as the environment and climate.

That’s why it’s very rich for modern Western civilisations to preach and dictate to developing nations about their use of fossil fuels, as we’ve already benefited from them to the point we can start to move away from them, developing nations don’t have that luxury yet.

The stark reality is that fossil fuels will be around for the next 100 yrs minimum and beyond.
There's taking people out of poverty like in Africa where the focus is on things like water and crops and poverty in Asia where people are leaving agriculture for the city's factories where the jobs are so horrible suicide is often more preferable than returning to work after lunch

Sephiroth 18-12-2021 09:39
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36106184)
You need a chat with Greta, she'll set you straight, we deforest large areas to make room for grazing animals...

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------



There's taking people out of poverty like in Africa where the focus is on things like water and crops and poverty in Asia where people are leaving agriculture for the city's factories where the jobs are so horrible suicide is often more preferable than returning to work after lunch
What parts of the UK have been de-forested to grow meat? We can be totally self-sufficient in meat and not import Brazilian produce, for example. What utter cobblers some of you eco-warriors spout.

1andrew1 18-12-2021 09:49
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106211)
What parts of the UK have been de-forested to grow meat? We can be totally self-sufficient in meat and not import Brazilian produce, for example. What utter cobblers some of you eco-warriors spout.
Pretty much every field in the UK was once a forest wasn't it?

papa smurf 18-12-2021 10:19
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36106213)
Pretty much every field in the UK was once a forest wasn't it?
yes

Chris 18-12-2021 10:31
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36106213)
Pretty much every field in the UK was once a forest wasn't it?
True, but there’s very little equivalence between rapid deforestation in the tropics and incremental deforestation in temperate latitudes. For a start the land area we’re talking about here is much smaller than what’s being lost in Brazil year on year, and has been deforested over a much longer period of time (there’s evidence of forest clearance in Great Britain going back thousands of years). And in terms of the carbon cycle, the tropical rainforests lock up a lot more of it than vegetation growth at high latitudes is capable of doing.

Hugh 18-12-2021 11:12
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106211)
What parts of the UK have been de-forested to grow meat? We can be totally self-sufficient in meat and not import Brazilian produce, for example. What utter cobblers some of you eco-warriors spout.
And of course, extensive de-forestation of the Amazon (and other areas) will have no negative effect on the U.K…

Sephiroth 18-12-2021 12:00
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36106225)
And of course, extensive de-forestation of the Amazon (and other areas) will have no negative effect on the U.K…
Nothing to do with meat eating in the UK using UK produce.

Hugh 18-12-2021 13:04
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106235)
Nothing to do with meat eating in the UK using UK produce.
You appear to be moving the goalposts (by changing the discussion about "meat" to "meat produced in the U.K.").

Your previous post
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
The first change we will notice as people come out of poverty is the demand for meat will increase, with the subsequent impact that'll have on the planet.
What's wrong with meat? An important food and absolutely delicious. This stuff about methane from farts and burps should be factored in not eliminated.

TheDaddy 18-12-2021 13:15
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36106211)
What parts of the UK have been de-forested to grow meat? We can be totally self-sufficient in meat and not import Brazilian produce, for example. What utter cobblers some of you eco-warriors spout.
Who mentioned the UK, I was replying to a post about China and India and yet it's me that spouts cobblers :rolleyes:

Paul 18-12-2021 15:16
Re: Climate Change - sea level rises.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36106243)
You appear to be moving the goalposts (by changing the discussion about "meat" to "meat produced in the U.K.").
He didnt move them, the people commenting about forests did.

Sephiroth 25-12-2021 16:18
Re: Climate Change
 
On the basis that:

1. Vegetarian animals fart methane;
2. Methane is a climate change factor;
3. Many of the climate change mob are also crusaders against eating meat:

Then:

If we all switched to vegetables, would we fart methane? Especially if we eat raw vegetables?

Hugh 26-12-2021 00:04
Re: Climate Change
 
Not unless you have four stomachs…

TheDaddy 26-12-2021 00:30
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107035)
On the basis that:

1. Vegetarian animals fart methane;
2. Methane is a climate change factor;
3. Many of the climate change mob are also crusaders against eating meat:

Then:

If we all switched to vegetables, would we fart methane? Especially if we eat raw vegetables?
If it wasn't Christmas with all its intentions of goodwill to all, I'd be moaning about the stench of methane this post is giving of

Carth 26-12-2021 09:58
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36107053)
Not unless you have four stomachs…
I've seen people eating as though they have :D

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 10:03
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36107061)
I've seen people eating as though they have :D
... and then farted methane. In my schooldays, we used to light farts.

OLD BOY 26-12-2021 13:06
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107035)
On the basis that:

1. Vegetarian animals fart methane;
2. Methane is a climate change factor;
3. Many of the climate change mob are also crusaders against eating meat:

Then:

If we all switched to vegetables, would we fart methane? Especially if we eat raw vegetables?
The farting scare is just that. Surely, this is blindingly obvious.

The animals we farm now were here a long time before we were.

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 13:12
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107072)
The farting scare is just that. Surely, this is blindingly obvious.

The animals we farm now were here a long time before we were.
I think you missed the subtlety of my point, OB! I obviously agree with you.

spiderplant 26-12-2021 14:53
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36107072)
The animals we farm now were here a long time before we were.
Largely they weren't (they have been deliberately bred for their meat and milk production by humans), and certainly not in the numbers that now exist on farms.

When did you last see a wild cow or chicken?

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 16:31
Re: Climate Change
 
Millions of buffalo, wildebeeste, etc roam Africa and America.

spiderplant 26-12-2021 16:58
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107089)
Millions of buffalo, wildebeeste, etc roam Africa and America.
But a billion cows are farmed.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...on-since-1990/

Hom3r 26-12-2021 17:48
Re: Climate Change
 
My Niece was a vegetarian, and my god her farts were awful, even a dog would leave the room.

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 17:50
Re: Climate Change
 
As I've indicated, the acid test is to light a fart.

Hugh 26-12-2021 19:42
Re: Climate Change
 
Test of what - IQ?

TheDaddy 26-12-2021 21:21
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107089)
Millions of buffalo, wildebeeste, etc roam Africa and America.
Millions of buffalo in America, you sure about that? Firstly I thought they were bison and secondly there aren't anywhere near a million left let alone millions

mrmistoffelees 26-12-2021 21:24
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107104)
Millions of buffalo in America, you sure about that? Firstly I thought they were bison and secondly there aren't anywhere near a million left let alone millions
Perhaps he meant Torquay?

Sephiroth 26-12-2021 21:31
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107104)
Millions of buffalo in America, you sure about that? Firstly I thought they were bison and secondly there aren't anywhere near a million left let alone millions
Bison, schmison, buffalo. Trust you to be difficult.

TheDaddy 26-12-2021 23:21
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107106)
Bison, schmison, buffalo. Trust you to be difficult.
You say difficult, I prefer accurate

OLD BOY 27-12-2021 16:37
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36107080)
Largely they weren't (they have been deliberately bred for their meat and milk production by humans), and certainly not in the numbers that now exist on farms.

When did you last see a wild cow or chicken?
Wild aurochs were common in Europe and Asia well before mankind introduced mass farming. The cold Pliocene climate caused an extension of open grassland, which supported the evolution of large grazers.

Our cattle of today are smaller creatures but they have descended from the aurochs.

Not only that, but there were many more animals roaming the planet back then than there are now. Some emitted small farts and others big farts. And we won’t even talk about the dinosaurs!

It beggars belief that anyone can truly think that cattle farting can have anywhere near the impact that industry belches out each day. It’s a diversion, frankly. A complete manipulation to try to force people away from meat eating and it should be resisted by all thinking people.

---------- Post added at 16:37 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107110)
You say difficult, I prefer accurate
Pedantic would also do.

Sephiroth 27-12-2021 16:53
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107110)
You say difficult, I prefer accurate
Prefer to nitpick, you mean.

Removing meat from the diet isn't going to solve anything and, if in any way officially promoted and discouraged, would lead to a backlash as you've never before seen.

That is unless you wish to nitpick on the word "backlash" for the sake of accuracy.

TheDaddy 27-12-2021 20:19
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36107149)
Prefer to nitpick, you mean.

Removing meat from the diet isn't going to solve anything and, if in any way officially promoted and discouraged, would lead to a backlash as you've never before seen.

That is unless you wish to nitpick on the word "backlash" for the sake of accuracy.
Are you broken? You're banging on about accuracy when I have said any of the things you've posted, all I said was as China and India's Middle class continue to grow so will their demand for meat with ramifications for the planet and you've some how and some what weirdly misrepresented that to mean, well all the nonsense you've posted

Sephiroth 27-12-2021 20:29
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107170)
Are you broken? You're banging on about accuracy when I have said any of the things you've posted, all I said was as China and India's Middle class continue to grow so will their demand for meat with ramifications for the planet and you've some how and some what weirdly misrepresented that to mean, well all the nonsense you've posted
Hmmm.

Paul 28-12-2021 00:47
Re: Climate Change
 
Ok Children, Get back to the subject.

Jimmy-J 10-01-2022 22:22
Re: Climate Change
 
Trending on Twitter at the moment...

"I stand with Harrison Ford!"

https://twitter.com/AesPolitics/stat...774311431?s=20

pip08456 19-01-2022 21:22
Re: Climate Change
 
Look like all those climate cahnge models will have to be reconfigured.

Quote:
Earth's core is cooling at rates faster than previously thought, which could speed the planet's inevitable march toward uninhabitability millions or billions of years from now, researchers said this week.
https://www.nbcnews.com/science/scie...-say-rcna12732

Carth 19-01-2022 22:27
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Earth's core is cooling at rates faster than previously thought, which could speed the planet's inevitable march toward uninhabitability millions or billions of years from now, researchers said this week.
'Cos we is stealing all its gas, innit :D

Paul 19-01-2022 23:34
Re: Climate Change
 
We still have a couple of billion years, but Ive made a note in my diary for Jan 19th 2000002022.

pip08456 19-01-2022 23:41
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36110342)
We still have a couple of billion years, but Ive made a note in my diary for Jan 19th 2000002022.
I'll buy you a drink then to celebrate.

Blackshep 22-01-2022 00:09
Re: Climate Change
 
World ending earlier then thought hope my local chinky doesn't hear about it and close he shut for the flu a few years ago and apparently before I lived where I do he closed for a month because of Y2K.

Hugh 22-01-2022 00:13
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackshep (Post 36110636)
World ending earlier then thought hope my local chinky doesn't hear about it and close he shut for the flu a few years ago and apparently before I lived where I do he closed for a month because of Y2K.
Mate - don’t post after a few beers…

Mr K 15-07-2022 13:31
Re: Climate Change
 
BBC News - Heatwave: Met Office issues first red extreme heat warning
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62177458

I wonder if the penny has dropped yet for climate change deniers? Probably not, they are usually a bit slow, which is a shame for the planet and the human race. It dwarfs any other Natonal/World issues into insignificance.

Halcyon 15-07-2022 13:53
Re: Climate Change
 
I predict that we will start migrating to colder countries such as the Nordic countries.
We will build smaller but more practical wooden houses.

heero_yuy 15-07-2022 13:55
Re: Climate Change
 
It's hot but it's been hot before and quite a long time ago:

Quote:
1911 United Kingdom heat wave was one of the most severe periods of heat to hit the country with temperatures around 36 °C (97 °F). The heat began in early July and didn't let up until mid September where even in September temperatures were still up to 33 °C (91 °F). It took 79 years for temperature higher to be recorded in the United Kingdom during 1990 United Kingdom heat wave.
Wiki

Damien 15-07-2022 14:43
Re: Climate Change
 
It's more a case of how these heatwaves and high temperatures are a more frequent occurrence.

Paul 15-07-2022 15:31
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128371)
I wonder if the penny has dropped yet for climate change deniers? Probably not.
One heatwave does not make a case for anything.
They happen - we had a two month heatwave in 1976.

The opposite also happens - the UK had a "big Freeze" in 1963.
The early 1980's saw several cold winters, europe (and the UK) froze in 2010.

For that matter, May 2022 (ie this year) was the coldest May since 1997.

Mr K 16-07-2022 00:00
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128389)
One heatwave does not make a case for anything.
They happen - we had a two month heatwave in 1976.

The opposite also happens - the UK had a "big Freeze" in 1963.
The early 1980's saw several cold winters, europe (and the UK) froze in 2010.

For that matter, May 2022 (ie this year) was the coldest May since 1997.
The 10 hottest years in the UK since 1884:-

2014
2006
2020
2011
2007
2017
2003
2018
2004
2002
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

All a bit recent aren't they?

Paul 16-07-2022 01:22
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128435)
All a bit recent aren't they?
Yes, they are.

You could reasonable argue that those figures indicate a trend of UK summers getting a bit warmer.
You could also reasonable make a case for global warming to at least be partly responsible for that trend.

Blaming a two day heatware on Global Warming is simply a ridiculous claim.

Half of the UKs coldest winters since the 1900's seem to have been in the last few years - 2009, 2010 & 2021 (The other half being in 1947, 1962 & 1982).

I guess it must be Global Cooling ...

LSS: You can make a case for anything with a few carefully picked figures.


Btw, the UK (and Europe) had a 200+ year extra warm period, known as the 'Medieval Warm Period'.
Global Warming and CO2 were not involved. It was later followed by the 'Little Ice Age' for about 400 years.

TheDaddy 16-07-2022 04:06
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128445)
Yes, they are.

You could reasonable argue that those figures indicate a trend of UK summers getting a bit warmer.
You could also reasonable make a case for global warming to at least be partly responsible for that trend.

Blaming a two day heatware on Global Warming is simply a ridiculous claim.

Half of the UKs coldest winters since the 1900's seem to have been in the last few years - 2009, 2010 & 2021 (The other half being in 1947, 1962 & 1982).

I guess it must be Global Cooling ...

LSS: You can make a case for anything with a few carefully picked figures.
and you seem to be making the case for climate change quite well :shrug:

Sephiroth 16-07-2022 09:49
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128435)
The 10 hottest years in the UK since 1884:-

2014
2006
2020
2011
2007
2017
2003
2018
2004
2002
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nited-kingdom/

All a bit recent aren't they?


Given that the web page you offered. Only covered those recent years, what’s your point?

From: TrevorHarley.com :
_____________________________________

1900 35.1 Cambridge 20 July

1901 33.3 Bawtry (South Yorks.), Colly Weston (Northants.) 19 July, Newton Rigg (Cumbria) 20 July

1902 31.9 Hereford 28 June

1903 31.1 Wryde (Cambridgeshire) 10 July

1904 32.2 Margate 4 August

1905 30.0 Bawtry (South Yorks.) 14 July

1906 35.6 Bawtry (South Yorks.) 1 September

1907 30.0 Lairg 16 July

1908 32.8 Dumfries 2 July

1909 33.3 Epsom 15 August

1910 28.9 Maidenhead 20 June

1911 36.7 Raunds, Canterbury 9 August

1912 32.8 Tottenham 12 July

1913 29.4 New Malden (London) 16 June

1914 32.2 Woking, New Malden, Wisley (Surrey) 1 July

1915 32.2 Cromer, Norwich 8 June

1916 30.0 Woking 30 July, Salisbury 31 July

1917 33.9 Reading, Little Massingham (Norfolk) 17 June

1918 33.9 Canterbury 22 August

1919 32.2 Raunds 11 September

1920 27.8 Raunds 17 June

1921 34.4 Woking, Halstead (Essex) 11 July

1922 32.8 Camden Square 22 May

1923 35.6 Camden Square 13 July

1924 32.2 Camden Square 12 July

1925 33.3 Hunstanton 22 July

1926 32.2 Camden Square 19 September

1927 29.4 Camden Square 16 June

1928 32.8 Camden Square, Newport (IOW) 15 July

1929 32.2 Camden Square, Margate 31 August; Newport (IOW) 5 September

1930 34.4 Camden Square 29 August

1931 28.3 Bromley 14 June

1932 36.1 London (several sites, inc. Camden), Tottenham, Halstead 19 August

1933 34.4 Margate, Cambridge 27 July

1934 33.3 Attenborough (Notts.) 11 July

1935 33.3 Attenborough (Notts.) 13 July

1936 31.7 Camden Square 20, 21 June

1937 33.3 Canterbury, Tunbridge Wells 7 August

1938 30.6 Camden Square, Reading 1 August

1939 32.2 Camden Square 7 June

1940 32.8 Cranwell (Lincs.) 9 June

1941 34.3 Camden Square 22 June

1942 33.9 Sprowston (Norfolk) 27 August

1943 33.9 Worcester, Croydon 31 July

1944 32.8 Tunbridge Wells, Horsham, London 29 May; Long Sutton (Hants.) 30 May

1945 32.2 Norwich, Whitstable 15 July

1946 30.6 London 2 July, Finningley 12 July, Greenwich and Maldon 24 July

1947 34.4 Waddingtn (Lincs.), London 3 June

1948 35.0 Milford (Surrey) 28 July

1949 33.3 Worcester 12 July

1950 33.3 Camden Square 6 June

1951 30.0 Southend 28 July

1952 33.9 Jersey 1 July; 33.3 Camden Square, Heathrow, Southampton 1 July

1953 33.9 Camden Square 12 August

1954 30.6 Camden Square 1 September

1955 32.8 Jersey 21 August (32.2C Chivenor, Devon, on 23 August)

1956 30.0 Camden Square 26 July

1957 35.6 Camden Square 29 June

1958 29.4 Paisley 4, 5 July; Leicester 8 July

1959 34.4 Cromer, Boxworth, and St James's Park 5 July

1960 30.6 Wyton (Cambs.) 18 June

1961 33.9 Regents Park, Camden Square, Gillingham 1 July

1962 27.8 Writtle (Essex) 3 September

1963 28.9 Littlehampton 22 July; Ceinws (Powys.) 29 July; Wisley, Gordon Castle (Gramp.) 30 July

1964 32.8 Cromer 26 August

1965 28.9 Kensington Palace 14 May

1966 28.9 Southampton 9 June; Perth, Crossmyloof (Strathclyde) 21 July; Camden Square (20 August)

1967 30.2 Watnall (Notts.) 17 July

1968 33.3 Camden Square 1 July

1969 32.8 Letchworth (Herts.) 16 July

1970 32.2 Aldenham (Herts.), Stratford-upon-Avon 7 July

1971 30.3 Rugby 11 July

1972 29.4 Perth 20 July

1973 32.1 Southampton 14 August

1974 28.0 Southampton 15 June

1975 34.2 Heathrow, Stanstead Abbotts (Herts.) 8 August

1976 35.9 Cheltenham 3 July

1977 30.0 Paisley, Glenlee (D. & G.) 7 July; Onich (Highland) 11 July

1978 28.8 Poolewe (Highland) 4 June

1979 30.4 Benson (Ox.) 27 July

1980 29.4 Cors Fochno (Dyfed) 4 June

1981 29.5 Kew 5 August

1982 30.7 Morley St. Botolph (Norf.) 3 August

1983 33.0 East Bergholt (Suffolk) 15 July, Hampton 16 July

1984 31.9 St Louis (Jersey) 20 Aug (31.7 Heathrow on 8 July)

1985 30.1 St Louis (Jersey) 13 July (29.8 Heathrow 25 July)

1986 32.0 Rustington (W. Sussex) 28 June

1987 30.2 Liphook (Hants.) 21 Aug

1988 30.2 Cheltenham (Glos.) 7 Aug

1989 34.4 Mickleham (Surr.) 22 July

1990 37.1 Cheltenham 3 Aug

1991 32.1 Cromer (Norf.) 11 July

1992 30.3 Malvern 29 June

1993 29.7 East Bergholt (Suff.) 4 July

1994 33.4 Morley St Botolph (Norfolk) 12 July

1995 35.2 Boxworth (Cambs.) 1 Aug

1996 33.2 Rickmansworth 22 July

1997 33.1 Wellesbourne (Warks.) 10 August

1998 32.2 Gravesend 10 August

1999 32.7 Heathrow 1 August, Honington (East Anglia) 2 August

2000 32.6 Coltishall (Norfolk) 19 June

2001 32.2 Northolt (London) 26 June

2002 32.6 Northolt (London) 29 July

_______________________________________

:PP:

Mr K 16-07-2022 10:04
Re: Climate Change
 
"there's none so blind as those who will
not see"

https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/...on-record.html
Quote:
The last eight years have been the hottest years ever recorded, according to NASA, with 2021 coming in at sixth place.

The latest figures from NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) show that global temperatures are 1.1°C above preindustrial levels, and creeping ever closer to the 1.5°C limit set by politicians in Glasgow last year.

The figures are in for how much the planet warmed during 2021.

The latest analysis from NASA found that the past 12 months were the sixth hottest year on record, with the planet warming by 1.1°C above the average from the start of the industrial revolution.

This means that the last eight years have been the warmest on record, continuing the long-term trend of a rapidly heating planet.

NASA's Administrator Bill Nelson, says, 'Science leaves no room for doubt: Climate change is the existential threat of our time.

'Eight of the top 10 warmest years on our planet occurred in the last decade, an indisputable fact that underscores the need for bold action to safeguard the future of our country - and all of humanity.'

Damien 16-07-2022 10:18
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128445)
Yes, they are.

You could reasonable argue that those figures indicate a trend of UK summers getting a bit warmer.
You could also reasonable make a case for global warming to at least be partly responsible for that trend.

Blaming a two day heatware on Global Warming is simply a ridiculous claim.

Half of the UKs coldest winters since the 1900's seem to have been in the last few years - 2009, 2010 & 2021 (The other half being in 1947, 1962 & 1982).

I guess it must be Global Cooling ....
Global cooling is a thing. That's why the scientific term changed from global warming to climate change in the 70s. Although the average temperature of the planet is getting warmer, the weather of certain regions might get colder overall.

For weather we'll just see more extreme events overall.

You can't blame any one event on climate change but if you keep having such events more frequently then that's probably climate change.

spiderplant 16-07-2022 10:30
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36128460)
if you keep having such events more frequently then that's probably climate change.
No "probably" about it. It is by definition climate change.

GrimUpNorth 16-07-2022 11:13
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36128460)
Global cooling is a thing. That's why the scientific term changed from global warming to climate change in the 70s. Although the average temperature of the planet is getting warmer, the weather of certain regions might get colder overall.

For weather we'll just see more extreme events overall.

You can't blame any one event on climate change but if you keep having such events more frequently then that's probably climate change.
Don't the models show we're possibly going to have colder winters because the melting polar cap will introduce enough fresh water to disrupt or stop the Atlantic conveyor which gives us our mild climate. If the conveyor stops we could have similar winters to those in Canada (straight across the Atlantic).

Paul 16-07-2022 13:04
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36128446)
and you seem to be making the case for climate change quite well :shrug:
The climate is always changing, since the planet existed, no case needed. ;)

daveeb 16-07-2022 13:17
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128476)
The climate is always changing, since the planet existed, no case needed. ;)
It's the time frame that it's suddenly happening in that is the problem.

Mr K 16-07-2022 14:30
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128476)
The climate is always changing, since the planet existed, no case needed. ;)
It hasn't happened over a few decades before and exactly coincided with rising CO2 emissions. Try looking at the science.

Paul 16-07-2022 15:11
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128487)
It hasn't happened over a few decades before and exactly coincided with rising CO2 emissions. Try looking at the science.
There is no science that can directly state that a two day heatwave is the result of global climate change (or warming, if you prefer).
Your constant attempts to plug one as a direct result of the other are why so many people ignore any "science", you do the cause no favours.

Stick to things you can prove, not wild guesswork and rash unsupportable statements.

Qtx 16-07-2022 15:24
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128371)
BBC News - Heatwave: Met Office issues first red extreme heat warning
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62177458

I wonder if the penny has dropped yet for climate change deniers?
Climate change has happened throughout history before we became industrialised, so why would anyone deny something that has happened since the Earth was created?

At one point it was called global warming, then man made global warming, or maybe the other way around. But the man-made part seems to have been dropped but it stopped any debate about it.

Warming is happening, what still isn't proven is how much of it is man made and how much difference it makes. We could be on a warm cycle anyway and added +2 degrees to what was happening anyway.

No one can deny the climate is changing but people can question the reasons until solid proof is there that its all man-made.

We should pollute less, move away from fossil fuels/plastics etc and look after our planet better for a myriad of other reasons too though.

Edit: I should have read further down the thread before seeing others have already put forward the same arguments :P

Damien 16-07-2022 15:42
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128489)
There is no science that can directly state that a two day heatwave is the result of global climate change (or warming, if you prefer).
Your constant attempts to plug one as a direct result of the other are why so many people ignore any "science", you do the cause no favours.

Stick to things you can prove, not wild guesswork and rash unsupportable statements.
It's the speed at which it's going up and whilst one heatwave doesn't prove anything the frequency of them does. You mentioned the middle evil warming period but that took place over 200 years and the temperature didn't increase as much as it's done in the last 50 years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_temperature_record

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/07/2.png

The yearly average temperature is increasingly rapidly. It's happening within a single human's lifetime as opposed to centuries.

The speed at which it's happening is the main difference between now and other periods in the history of the earth. People like discount how much it increased 1000s of years ago, in prehistoric times, but that took geological ages. Not 100 years.

And as for human involvement what do we think about that sudden spike in the 1800s was caused by? Just happens to be around the time of the industrial revolution....

Mr K 16-07-2022 15:56
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qtx (Post 36128491)
Climate change has happened throughout history before we became industrialised, so why would anyone deny something that has happened since the Earth was created?

At one point it was called global warming, then man made global warming, or maybe the other way around. But the man-made part seems to have been dropped but it stopped any debate about it.

Warming is happening, what still isn't proven is how much of it is man made and how much difference it makes. We could be on a warm cycle anyway and added +2 degrees to what was happening anyway.

No one can deny the climate is changing but people can question the reasons until solid proof is there that its all man-made.

We should pollute less, move away from fossil fuels/plastics etc and look after our planet better for a myriad of other reasons too though.

Edit: I should have read further down the thread before seeing others have already put forward the same arguments :P
Like others you have ignored the massively quicker rate this climate change is happening, rather than any natural climate change in the past.

What 'solid proof' would you need? The floods or fires coming in through your door ? The evidence this is man made is now widely accepted. If its on top of any natural warming then that makes it worse.

Tbh it probably already is too late, but denying the reality of man made climate change wont help matters or make it go away. It's the denial that has maybe already pushed us past the tipping point, the evidence has been here for decades and we and govts have acted too slowly or pretended it isnt an issue, as its inconvenient or might cost us.

As with everything atm, its the next generation's problem, but they might not be able to do anything by that stage.

Qtx 16-07-2022 16:45
Re: Climate Change
 
Again...there is no evidence of how much of this warming cycle is man made. Hardly anyone is denying the climate is changing, no matter how times you shout the derogative 'climate change deniers' at people questioning how much difference man has made due to lack of evidence showing this.

papa smurf 16-07-2022 16:53
Re: Climate Change
 
So it looks like a couple of hot days mon and tue then back to normal

spiderplant 16-07-2022 17:22
Re: Climate Change
 
Whether it is man-made or not doesn't really matter. If we can do something to slow it, we should.

If an asteroid was heading directly for earth, would you say "it's not man-made so let's do nothing about it"?

Qtx 16-07-2022 17:22
Re: Climate Change
 
Usual thunderstorm to clear the air after the hot muggy days

Paul 16-07-2022 17:36
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36128492)
It's the speed at which it's going up and whilst one heatwave doesn't prove anything the frequency of them does.
Exactly. Relevant part highlighted. That is precisely what I said, several times now.
I find it really quite amusing how the climate brigade keep jumping in assuming I'm saying all kinds of other things (Im not).

I'll repeat it again, just for the benefit of those still foaming at the mouth.
Quote:
one heatwave doesn't prove anything

Quote:
So it looks like a couple of hot days mon and tue then back to normal
Its more like 3 days here, Sunday is going to be in the low 30's

OLD BOY 16-07-2022 20:07
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128493)
Like others you have ignored the massively quicker rate this climate change is happening, rather than any natural climate change in the past.

What 'solid proof' would you need? The floods or fires coming in through your door ? The evidence this is man made is now widely accepted. If its on top of any natural warming then that makes it worse.

Tbh it probably already is too late, but denying the reality of man made climate change wont help matters or make it go away. It's the denial that has maybe already pushed us past the tipping point, the evidence has been here for decades and we and govts have acted too slowly or pretended it isnt an issue, as its inconvenient or might cost us.

As with everything atm, its the next generation's problem, but they might not be able to do anything by that stage.
Have you considered the fact that we have cleaned up the atmosphere since the 1950s and now more sunshine is getting through?

There are other possible reasons too, although I don't have a problem with cleaning up the atmosphere.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36128502)
So it looks like a couple of hot days mon and tue then back to normal
Yes, the proverbial 3 days summer followed by a thunderstorm. Maybe the extra heat is denying us the third day!

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128509)
Exactly. Relevant part highlighted. That is precisely what I said, several times now.
I find it really quite amusing how the climate brigade keep jumping in assuming I'm saying all kinds of other things (Im not).

I'll repeat it again, just for the benefit of those still foaming at the mouth.



Its more like 3 days here, Sunday is going to be in the low 30's
I don't disbelieve that climate change is happening, but it has happened before, of course.

It's just as well these climate obssessives weren't around during the mini-ice age.:rolleyes:

GrimUpNorth 16-07-2022 20:12
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36128524)
Have you considered the fact that we have cleaned up the atmosphere since the 1950s and now more sunshine is getting through?

There are other possible reasons too, although I don't have a problem with cleaning up the atmosphere.

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:00 ----------



Yes, the proverbial 3 days summer followed by a thunderstorm. Maybe the extra heat is denying us the third day!

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:02 ----------



I don't disbelieve that climate change is happening, but it has happened before, of course.

It's just as well these climate obssessives weren't around during the mini-ice age.:rolleyes:
Come on Old Boy, even your man Boris accepts it’s happening and that we’re pretty much to blame.

spiderplant 16-07-2022 20:13
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36128524)
Have you considered the fact that we have cleaned up the atmosphere since the 1950s and now more sunshine is getting through?
That would only put things back to the pre-industrial era. It doesn't explain the rise in temperatures beyond that

RichardCoulter 16-07-2022 20:57
Re: Climate Change
 
I can remember exceptionally warm weather being classified as such in the seventies when it reached the 70's as measured in fahrenheit.

Our local weather forecast has just predicted temperatures of about 88° fahrenheit tomorrow.

Can anyone remember the temperatures of the hot summer of 1976? It would be interesting to compare them.

spiderplant 16-07-2022 21:10
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36128535)
Can anyone remember the temperatures of the hot summer of 1976? It would be interesting to compare them.
Yes I can, and it wasn't that hot. But it went on for nearly 3 months.

Towards the end, Denis Howell was designated Minister for Drought. Almost immediately there was prolonged rain, then he became Minister for Floods.

Damien 16-07-2022 21:39
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128509)
Exactly. Relevant part highlighted. That is precisely what I said, several times now.
I find it really quite amusing how the climate brigade keep jumping in assuming I'm saying all kinds of other things (Im not).
Yeah I was agreeing with you expect to point out that although in isolation it doesn't prove anything taken together with the amount of times we're hitting record numbers in recent years - along side other weird weather patterns - that can be seen as a sign of a changing climate.

Paul 16-07-2022 22:11
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36128537)
Yes I can, and it wasn't that hot.
It was hot.

Quote:
Heathrow had 16 consecutive days over 30 °C from 23 June to 8 July and for 15 consecutive days from 23 June to 7 July temperatures reached 32.2 °C somewhere in England. Five days saw temperatures exceed 35 °C.
I was in school for all of that period, no air con (or even fans) - it was HOT. :Sun:

Pierre 16-07-2022 22:35
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36128502)
So it looks like a couple of hot days mon and tue then back to normal
Yes, I’m paying a small fortune to go on holiday this summer to immerse myself in this kind of heat for two weeks.

I think I can handle 3 days, as a warm up.

SnoopZ 18-07-2022 19:57
Re: Climate Change
 
It's too hot, anyone else struggling?

Unlike yesterday where it was just as hot temp wise there is zero breeze so opening the door at the front and patio at the back isn't creating a blow and the fan is also useless.

Damien 18-07-2022 20:43
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128707)
It's too hot, anyone else struggling?

Unlike yesterday where it was just as hot temp wise there is zero breeze so opening the door at the front and patio at the back isn't creating a blow and the fan is also useless.
In most places it's a lot hotter than yesterday.

But part of the problem is that the longer the heat has gone on the less you can escape it. At some point opening the door isn't going to help other than to let more hot air into the house. I closed everything, put the blinds down and went to work in an office with air conditioning. Not being in my flat also helped the flat stay cool.

SnoopZ 18-07-2022 20:53
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36128710)
In most places it's a lot hotter than yesterday.

But part of the problem is that the longer the heat has gone on the less you can escape it. At some point opening the door isn't going to help other than to let more hot air into the house. I closed everything, put the blinds down and went to work in an office with air conditioning. Not being in my flat also helped the flat stay cool.
Yes thats how i handled it this morning, working in a Cleanroom didn't help either when i left at 2pm, tomorrow will be a little worse at 42c, then Wednesday forecast for showers and 23c.

Mr K 18-07-2022 20:55
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36128535)
I can remember exceptionally warm weather being classified as such in the seventies when it reached the 70's as measured in fahrenheit.

Our local weather forecast has just predicted temperatures of about 88° fahrenheit tomorrow.

Can anyone remember the temperatures of the hot summer of 1976? It would be interesting to compare them.
35.9c was the hottest temp. in 1976. We exceeded that today with 38.1c and we'll exceed it again tomorrow.
We have a problem.

Pierre 18-07-2022 21:48
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128707)
It's too hot, anyone else struggling?.
Nope, loved it today.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:47 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128712)
35.9c was the hottest temp. in 1976. We exceeded that today with 38.1c and we'll exceed it again tomorrow.
We have a problem.
Only problem I have is ensuring I have enough beers in the fridge and salt & pepper ribs for the BBQ.

Good problems to have.

Mr K 18-07-2022 21:52
Re: Climate Change
 
One Conservative MP has nailed it:-
Quote:
Conservative Party members are unwilling to prioritise the Government's 2050 net zero targets “because 90pc of them will be dead”, a Conservative MP has claimed.

Chris Skidmore, a former junior minister and chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group for the Environment, cited a “rather depressing” poll of Conservative members which found that just 4pc wanted leadership candidates to put the country’s net zero strategy in their top three priorities.

Speaking on a panel organised by National Grid, Mr Skidmore said: “Of course they would say that, because when you cast the question as net zero by 2050 probably 90pc of them will be dead.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...0pc-will-dead/

Damien 18-07-2022 22:05
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128711)
Yes thats how i handled it this morning, working in a Cleanroom didn't help either when i left at 2pm, tomorrow will be a little worse at 42c, then Wednesday forecast for showers and 23c.
Yeah, tomorrow will be worse just because it's not had the night to chill out. On previous days I open all the doors and windows early in the morning and at night. I imagine tomorrow night won't be great either but Wednesday morning should be fine. It's more of a concern for elderly relatives. I really do need to look into an A/C unit for them but it seems to much of an effort for them to maintain it.

SnoopZ 18-07-2022 22:16
Re: Climate Change
 
Fan in the bedroom tonight making it bearable.

Pierre 18-07-2022 23:55
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128726)
Fan in the bedroom tonight making it bearable.
Is he just standing there, cheering you on!

jonbxx 19-07-2022 09:11
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128711)
Yes thats how i handled it this morning, working in a Cleanroom didn't help either when i left at 2pm, tomorrow will be a little worse at 42c, then Wednesday forecast for showers and 23c.
Ooof, working in a cleanroom in this weather wouldn't be fun! My first science job was fully gowned, gloved and masked and the air conditioning was close to non-existent. Puddles of sweat in the fingers of your gloves is not nice

SnoopZ 19-07-2022 09:36
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36128755)
Ooof, working in a cleanroom in this weather wouldn't be fun! My first science job was fully gowned, gloved and masked and the air conditioning was close to non-existent. Puddles of sweat in the fingers of your gloves is not nice
It's actually really comfortable where I work so no sweating, everyone is wearing shorts under their full suit.

heero_yuy 19-07-2022 09:49
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36128757)
everyone is wearing shorts under their full suit.
Well you hope they are. :D

ianch99 19-07-2022 10:40
Re: Climate Change
 
For those equating 1976 with today, an interesting global heat anomaly map from NASA:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FX2LiBGW...jpg&name=small

Hugh 19-07-2022 10:49
Re: Climate Change
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36128779)
For those equating 1976 with today, an interesting global heat anomaly map from NASA:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1658224153

Paul 19-07-2022 10:55
Re: Climate Change
 
You cannot equate them.

The heatwave in 1976 lasted two months, this one is two days.

This one is a little hotter at its maximum (by about 3C atm, that may increase slightly more).

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128712)
35.9c was the hottest temp. in 1976. We exceeded that today with 38.1c and we'll exceed it again tomorrow.
We have a problem.
Yes, a lack of air con. ;)

Chris 19-07-2022 11:15
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36128781)
You cannot equate them.

The heatwave in 1976 lasted two months, this one is two days.

This one is a little hotter at its maximum (by about 3C atm, that may increase slightly more).

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:53 ----------


Yes, a lack of air con. ;)
You’re looking at the issue back to front.

It has nothing to do with how long a heatwave lasts, which is all to do with the movement of air masses, and everything to do with how much solar energy is being retained by Earth’s atmosphere, which means that when we get a heatwave, no matter how long or short it is, its peak temperature is higher.

In climate terms, 3 degrees is a lot.

1andrew1 19-07-2022 11:30
Re: Climate Change
 
This is a useful Nasa infographic too.
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...09663378788355

Julian 19-07-2022 13:08
Re: Climate Change
 
40.2 degrees recorded at Heathrow

Mr K 19-07-2022 13:16
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36128791)
This is a useful Nasa infographic too.
https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...09663378788355
No matter how much its dumbed down, some will still have their heads in the sand. (presumably to try and keep cool!).
Today is a symptom, the long term trend tells the story.

denphone 19-07-2022 13:26
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian (Post 36128798)
Thunder and lightning down in deepest Devon this morning with a temperature now at 23 degrees.

Pierre 19-07-2022 13:40
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36128780)
Is all that good stuff before or after we trash the economy.

The "energy independence" one is also working out quite well too.

Mr K 19-07-2022 13:46
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36128805)
Is all that good stuff before or after we trash the economy.

The "energy independence" one is also working out quite well too.
A trashed economy we can survive. A trashed World we can't.
Climate Change will trash economies anyway.

1andrew1 19-07-2022 13:55
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36128805)
Is all that good stuff before or after we trash the economy.

The "energy independence" one is also working out quite well too.
Doing nothing about climate change is not an option, if you are able to take on board the points in Chris's post.

It is not a choice between economic growth with coal-fired power stations or adhering to net zero. As we've seen with the current situation in Europe, high temperatures result in lower productivity and the need to spend more and more on more resilient infrastructure. The fewer heatwaves we can avoid in the future, the better. That requires a net zero approach and as a rich country, we should be able to afford it.

Julian 19-07-2022 13:57
Re: Climate Change
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36128803)
Thunder and lightning down in deepest Devon this morning with a temperature now at 23 degrees.
We had some of that earlier too Den, went down to 19

Now clear and sunny - 27.9

Hugh 19-07-2022 14:03
Re: Climate Change
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36128806)
A trashed economy we can survive. A trashed World we can't.
Climate Change will trash economies anyway.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1658235789


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