Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Public School Idiots running the country... God help us all. What a crap mandate the Cons have. 20,000 more police (which they got rid of in the first place), 40 new hospitals to be built (we have no staff to man the ones we have got).. and what else was it O yes 50,000 more nurses!?!?!?!?


We have just had ten years of crap... more to come me thinks.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Some of us want to see the country prosper rather than sink into debt. Your characterisation of Conservative politicians is just naive and frankly, completely wrong. You need to start seeing the world as it really is. Corbyn’s promises may sound good to you, but it’s worth nothing more than a six year old’s Christmas list. It simply cannot be delivered because it costs too much and the money would run out long before they reached half way through it.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I think you’re doing the lads a disservice here Richard. I mean they aren’t actually running the country that’s the offshore corporate interests that are funding them, Russian oligarchs or possibly even the FSB. I mean Boris did meet with them without his security detail when he was foreign secretary.

---------- Post added at 19:41 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

More absolute nonsense. The country is already 2 trillion in debt, a figure that has doubled under the Tories in nominal terms. Despite selling off almost everything worth selling in the last forty years we are still 2 trillion in debt because of failed neo-liberal economic policies. The Tory bribe of selling people their council houses and deregulating lending to push up prices is a one off windfall.

Future generations have no such windfall. Only the debt from previous generations extravagance and poor decision making.

Pray, tell, Old Boy, how and when should we pay the 2 trillion back? How do we fund it so we can stop squandering billions on interest payments?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Nah, they're working hard for you, honestly...

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/11/1.jpg

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

https://www.icmunlimited.com/our-wor...n-2019-poll-4/

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And I counter that with this gem...



Give up Mr K, you're not winning this argument or any one you've laid here yet, judging by each poll result thus far, and yes I'm still voting for the Conservatives to stop a Marxist and Commie prick for leader like Corbyn getting in.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

As usual :confused::confused::confused:
You complain about austerity, but also complain about adding to the public debt. Are you suggesting that in 2010 the spending taps should have been turned off by such a huge amount? That really would have been austerity. If the deficit levels inherited in 2010, had been continued, that would have added yet another £600bn to the debt.


The crash happened around 10 years into a Labour government.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And ten years later the Tories are still running a deficit, doubling total debt in nominal terms. The Tories ran deficits in the vast majority of the Thatcher and Major years.

Totally flawed economics.

40 years of failure. I note you haven’t addressed any of my points simply misinterpreted them for the purpose of deflection. So I will repeat my point:

Future generations have no such windfall. Only the debt from previous generations extravagance and poor decision making.

If it’s about balancing the books then when should we pay the 2 trillion back? How do we fund it so we can stop squandering billions on interest payments?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

We cannot pay it back because we have people like you, moaning about Austerity all the time. :dozey:

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Austerity hasn’t reduced it though, has it? :rolleyes:

There is absolutely no plan. The state has no assets, no growth and people don’t want to pay tax. It simply doesn’t work. The older generations just hope this pozni scheme holds up til they die.

40 years of failure. Barely ran a surplus in that time with debt through the roof.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Austerity has reduced the need to keep dipping in it under the Tories, they didn't dip in it as much as the prior Labour Government did for 13 years, so don't try that one with me.

In other news I love to see the SNP get an absolute pasting when they fail to meet their targets, they are no better, Mr Jfman!

https://twitter.com/jackgIendinning/...56353161043969

Andrew Neil: "you've called for legislation to protect the NHS from Donald Trump but maybe we need to legislate to protect the NHS from Nicola Sturgeon."

Utterly priceless. :rofl:

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

“In other news”. Another absolute deflection because you are devoid of ideas. At least you didn’t try to hide it.

No plans to pay back the debt, no plans at all. It’s an ideologically driven attack on the poor to keep tax low for the rich and multinational companies. It’s disingenuous to claim otherwise. Or outright lies.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Or to be realistically fair, it is none of those things and you're the one, who is totally lying as usual! :dozey::rolleyes:

I see you've completely skipped on the failings of the SNP pointed out by Andrew Neil! Why is that?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Because you haven't addressed what the plan is to pay back 2 trillion pounds of national debt? That's an awful lot of austerity.

I don't remember the big push to balance the books in the "good times" by taxing people a little more. Nope.

A big pozni scheme as I said. Although the windfalls have run out.

The failings or otherwise or the SNP are you simply derailng the conversation - a skill quite a few on here have when the obvious failings of Conservative/New Labour neo-liberal free market capitalism are exposed.

40 years. 2 trillion of debt. No assets. No growth. Ends only one way. Might not be tomorrow, but it crashes eventually.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I wasn't aware this was the jfman show?

Here's the thing, we're not having a conversation, you started bleating on about Austerity with Nomadking, I simply joined in and told you, you're wrong on many fronts, mainly about the whinging about austerity and for the record, no I am not derailing the conversation, this topic is not just about one party, so wind your neck in. If I want to bring up the SNP's failings I can do, I don't need your consent and you would do well to remember this.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Please look at it this way.
Again today, Joker Boris has come out again with the rubbish of putting more money into nursing.
Doesn't he realise it will take FIVE years to train a nurse. And there is over 30.000 vacancies for nursing staff.
If the money was good. There wouldn't be any vacancies.

He also states that they will employ 20.000 more police officers - Is this across the UK.
Doesn't he realise that officers are leaving EACH MONTH through stress, and the workload they get each day - and remember, l work in law enforcement and know the pressure that officers are on a daily routine.

Boris, is trying to con the public. And find out how many times , on daily basis, he will talk about Brexit.

Boris is conning the public in the hope of voting Tory, then when he gets in. He will start making cuts again. Watch the space

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I simply pointed out that you have deflected from my point. Which is a statement of fact. Hence I chose not to respond to your point.

It's a discussion forum. I thought the point was to have conversations not read moderated right wing propaganda.

I don't think you've evidenced that I'm wrong at all, simply obediently observed your own flawed ideology. Which is fine, but to call it proving me wrong is somewhat a leap.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:08 ----------

Nobody holds the Tories to account. In five years time we will just get more misinformation as to why the alternative is worse.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I have nothing to deflect from so no it is not a statement of fact at all. I simply moved on because I am bored of your whinging of austerity all the time, that I have already said, multiple times, was needed.

I was actually pointing out the hypocrisy from yourself of you whinging about Tory failings in your eyes yet you have nothing to say at all on SNP failings.

One word for that, pathetic!

I just told you we were not having a conversation, you was whinging and I butted in to say why your whinging was unwarranted and so I moved on.

As I said, this not your topic.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

It must be to work in the 40 new hospitals they are building.;)

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Wow and more wow.

BREAKING:
Jeremy Corbyn and Labour have been rocked by an explosive attack over antisemitism by the UK’s most senior Jewish leader, the Chief Rabbi. In a coruscating article in The Times, Ephraim Mirvis says the Labour leader’s claims to be tackling antisemitism in is party are a "mendacious fiction".

He writes: "A new poison - sanctioned from the very top - has taken root in the Labour Party.”

https://news.sky.com/story/chief-rab...ponse-11870412

A damning indictment of the Racist party that is now Labour.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

A sign of sheer panic among the establishment as the polls get tighter. Not unexpected, and fairly transparent.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 ----------

I'm quite sure it isn't yours either.

With no plans to pay off the 2 trillion of debt, and no answer of how austerity solves it, the older generations are admitting what we already know.

They've mortgaged off future revenue from public utilities for a one off windfall, and squandered state assets balancing the books with huge borrowing and leaving it all for future generations to pay back.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And the Tory party and their deep rooted Islamophobia issues?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Watch out, we can't have that kind of objectivity in our election thread.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

But antisemitism does not justify islamophobia or vice versa. The whole election campaign seems to have sunk to the levels of 'I know you are but what am I'. The Brexit and to a lesser extent Scottish referendum set a new playing field of what is acceptable in political campaigning where any old nonsense can be rolled out and, as long as the message is impactful, honesty is secondary.

It seems like supporting a political party is like supporting a football team these days. If you don't support a Conservative policy, you're a marxist and if you don't support a Labour policy, you're Hitler (good bit of Godwins law there)

Politicians on the whole aren't stupid but I am getting more and more convinced that they think we, the public, are and that's pretty insulting!

I will definitely vote as I think that taking part in the democratic process is part of what being part of society is but I am struggling to decide who to vote for. We have 5 candidates and I am working more on who I wouldn't vote for than who I would. I have narrowed it down to 4 so far!

I think I need to read some manifestos...

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

The only time the previous Labour government was paying off the national debt was in the few years that they followed the 5 year economic plan of the previous Conservative government. Afterwards they went on a spending splurge, which at first reduced the surplus, but by 2002(ie before the crash) led to borrowing being required.
Link

Quote:

What the Manifesto said:

It might easier to cut back on single spending plans like road building, but spending on things like benefit levels, tax credits are almost impossible to cut back on. Gordon Brown purposely made tax credits more generous which led to an entrenched public spending requirement.
Link
Not sure how not having austerity in any shape or form would lead to paying off the national debt.:confused:


From 2008
Labour's use of PFI locked in future spending for the next 30 years. Whatever government was in power would have to continue to pay those commitments.

One myth is that Labour were good on social sector house building, and the Tories bad.
Just look at the graph in the link.
The yellow section of the graph which refers to housing association(ie social sector) building is much thinner under Labour than it was pre 1997 and post 2010. I got to admit, even I was surprised by that graph, because the impression that is given is that it was the reverse, ie Labour built more. The fact is they didn't, even in the good times.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I agree.

New Labour are part of the 40 years of failure that has accumulated 2 trillion pounds of debt with no plans to pay it back. Older generations are leaving younger generations with this burden round their necks.

We need a genuine alternative to the neo-liberal capitalist status quo which has no answers for the genuine problems this country faces.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

How many times to we have to respond to these tired old arguments, jfman? Please give it a rest.

We've already written on here countless times that Labour spent all the balances and put no money away for a rainy day during the 'golden years'. That meant we had no reserves to deal with the global financial crash. That meant we had to come up with a good plan to put the UK back on its feet and deal with the unsustainable deficit. The Conservatives have brought that down substantially, but in the meantime, debt has continued to rise as a result. This would have not happened if Labour had not spent all the reserves in its period of office and that's where the blame lies for this mess.

Do you really believe that we would be saddled with less debt had Labour been in power throught the last decade? If so, you must be the only one who does.

For someone who professes to know about economics, I am astounded that you should trot out this nonsense. The answer to paying off all that debt is certainly not to be found in the Labour camp, where hundreds of billions of pounds would be spent to satisfy their agenda. The real question is how they would pay back the debt.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Laughable from you Old Boy, there's no evidence at all that Conservative governments are more fiscally responsible than Labour. It was Conservative Government who squandered the windfalls of privatisation.

So how does the country pay back 2 trillion of accumulated debt from 40 years of failure?

My economic credentials are far stronger than yours here Old Boy, as you well know. Take your rose tinted glasses off and open your eyes.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Non-existent-That is Fake News.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

I told you to watch your tone. :nono:

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Tory islamophobia, a subject highlighted by a former chair of the Party is "fake news"?

Uncomfortable news maybe, but it's very real.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

:D:D:D

I have no words....

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Paul Brand

@PaulBrandITV


BREAKING: Muslim Council of Britain stands by Chief Rabbi but also tells people to vote with their conscience on Islamophobia in Tory party:

“This an issue that is particularly acute in the Conservative Party who have approached Islamophobia with denial, dismissal and deceit.”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EKS5gVoX...jpg&name=small


both parties have big issues with racism both toxic and disastrous and I repeat I never have never will be supporter of Corbyn before people say that

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Because it's directed at the Tory party it's 'fake news'

If it was directed at the Labour party however....

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Will still vote Tory over the Terrorist loving commie, Marxist Labour Party !!!

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

That's strange all the Conservative leadership candidates (including Bozzo) agreed Islamophobia was an an issue, in their little TV chat, and agreed to have an independent inquiry. We're still waiting....

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

The problem in the Labour Party is that anti-Semitism comes from the top and doesn't appear to be addressed.

The difference is that the Conservative Party is addressing the issue of Islamaphobia wherever it occurs and it is reported. The trouble is that some people take remarks such as those made by Boris when he talked about 'letterbox' women, ignoring the fact that he said those things to pour scorn on those men who forced their wives and daughters to dress in that way. That is more to do with men bullying women into doing their bidding than it is with religion. If you doubt that, then read the whole article instead of relying on sound bites.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

ahem take you forgot on purpose the islamophobia from Boris and he went back on enquiry promise he made live on tv both parties have very big issues with racism

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

We get that those are your political opinions. However that doesn't make the claim of Tory Islamophobia fake news.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Whereas Labour continue to ignore anti-Semitism, which is a far bigger problem. The inquiry is being set up, I understand.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

The actual Prime Minister has made islamophic statements. How much closer to the top do you want?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I addressed that in my post. Boris does not suffer with Islamaphobia and will not tolerate that in others. I've addressed the 'letterbox women' issue. That was not Islamaphobia. You need to read the article.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

It's actually a lesser problem by any quantitative measure. It's on the news less though, mainly because anti-Semitism is a stick conveniently used to beat the Labour party.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Which statements are you referring to?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

The letterboxes one. For a start.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Which I have addressed. Next...?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

It's islamophic. The fact you made an excuse for it is irrelevant.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

So that is the best you can do? Read the article and get this in context. This was not an issue of being against Islam (which does not require women to wear burkas), it was against the practice by which some men try to control their women.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

A man of his expensive education would have been able to articulate himself better if that was actually true.

I don't need to see it through your rose tinted spectacles to know that, at all costs, you will defend the Conservative party.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Not really as members of the conservative party have expressed that islamophobia is also prevalent at the top.

Both parties have declared that the respective issues in their parties will not be tolerated and yet both parties seem to be doing little to nothing to sort out the issues.

I'm not here to profess that the Tories are dealing with it better than Labour or vice versa. They're both as bad as each other

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

How is that Islamophobic? It was just making the obvious visual comparison. People make comments on different clothing and appearances all the time.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

OK, for starters can you stop blaming me (as part of the older generation) for something I haven't done.

Secondly, what do you (with a self confessed greater understanding of economics) suggest as a 'genuine alternative' to what is currently on offer from both Lab & Cons . . or even Lib Dems?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Probably about the most sensible thing Ive read in the last four pages of drivel.

Move on people, this constant digging at each other has been done to death now, no more needed.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

So hopefully we can all agree that:

* They all tell porkies, always have done.
* They're all promising to spend money they haven't got, and probably never will have unless they decimate the UK.
* There are 'racist' undertones of one description or another in the main parties, and possibly underlying in the others too.


Right, glad that's out of the way then :D

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Individuals no, but collectively yes. Maybe not consciously, but politicians took one off windfalls from privatisation and squandered it leaving us where we are today. 2 trillion in debt.

I'm interested in how 2 trillion is sustainable but 2.2 trillion and holding state assets - like broadband networks - isn't.

The starting point is for politicians to be honest that the low tax economy is essentially a deception funded from one off windfalls.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Voters have to take some of the blame here not just politicians. We want tax cuts and increased spending on public services. We're conning ourselves and vote for those that promise the impossible.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

It's about time you started being honest. The £2 trillion debt was not caused by privatisation. You are trying to move the goalposts. Unsuccessfully, I would add.

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Once again, read the article.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Putting words in my mouth I see. I said despite privatisation, selling off all state assets to the private sector, that for 40 years your neo-liberal economic model has failed this country. These assets didn’t generate revenue at privatisation because they were competitive markets - they did so because of the limited scope for competition that we say today. They were selling future profits.

2 trillion of debt. 40 years of failure.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

all parties been guilty of that though that's the problem

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Problem Corbyn in particular had, was a weak response to accusations of Anti-Semitism, no proper in-depth enquiry. This has allowed the extreme RW to capitalise on this. The irony being the extreme RW are the most racist leaning of all.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

There is no such terms. You cannot be, just a little bit racist, or more racist than someone else or group of people. Racism is racism.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Indeed, whether it it anti-Semitism or Islamophobia. You can't just call one out and ignore the other.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Which is the reason Corbyn is in such hot water at the moment.

Labour has a large and quite specific problem with anti-Semitism, brought about by the hard left’s obsession with Palestine. They are powerless to affect the issue directly because Israel doesn’t export that much to us, so they can’t demonstrate their righteousness with a high-profile boycott, so they do the next best thing, which is to put the boot in to anyone they perceive as an ideological opponent. The difference between the state of Israel and the traditional religion of Israel becomes blurred and hey presto.

Meanwhile on the far right there is the same old obsession with people who look a bit funny, sound a bit funny and are attacking our way of life. But their hatred lacks the focus of the anti-Semitism of the left. There are no Tory-affiliated fringe groups organising meetings where the platform is regularly given over to people who question a nation state’s right to exist. Their racism is no less serious in itself but it simply is not the same embedded, organised, campaigning cancer that it is on the left.

Crucially, the leader of the Tories is not an ideological bedfellow of those on the far right who express anti-Islamic racism. (No, he just isn’t, and no amount of whataboutery will alter that essential fact). Johnson is prone to writing buffoonish caricatures because he is a newspaper columnist who is used to being read only by those who share his casual disregard for the power of words to offend those of different backgrounds. Senior Muslims have called him out over it. But none of them has ever gone so far as to say their entire community is beginning to question its safety in the UK in the way the Chief Rabbi did yesterday.

Corbyn, while I’m certain he does not consider himself racist, seems absolutely blind to what his personal obsession with the Palestinian question has enabled his ideological supporters to do. The Left is obsessed with who it shares a platform with, yet Corbyn is unable to see how his repeated sharing of platforms with his “friends from Hamas” has thereby domesticated and justified those in his party who think it is justified to believe a nation state should be driven into the sea. Labour has a serious, organised problem with anti-Semitism among the very people within the party who put Corbyn in his post. And yet Corbyn just can’t see how he is damaging his own cause by refusing to call them out, directly and specifically, preferring instead to stick to his usual formula of generic condemnation of all bad things everywhere at all times. No matter how sincere he is, he sounds evasive and unfocused.

Above all, Corbyn makes himself look like he doesn’t know how to handle a crisis. In fact he makes himself look like he doesn’t necessarily see a crisis, even when it’s right on top of him. In the middle of a general election campaign, that’s not a good look.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

You can when one of them is your team.

Anyway, had our first election leaflet yesterday from Mary Creagh (let's be generous and call her very remain leaning). Wakefield voted leave but there's no mention of leaving the EU anywhere in her begging leaflet - quite a risky approach I think as she's only got a small majority. If she'd confronted the issue head on I think many people would have some respect for her. As it is she's come across as ignoring a big issue which just makes her appear arrogant.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And that's just how the Israeli government likes it, they regularly conflate criticism of Israel as antisemitic,
Labour should have remembered their shared history of sticking up for and being allied with British Jews rather than allienating them, stupid and so avoidable imo, the standard of politician we're turning out is truely abysmal

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

So do we choose Boris who seems to be a proven liar and also has some dubious remarks about Muslims in his past? Seems we are between the devil and a hard place at the moment for choice.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Is it ok that the news keep running the Corbin story but never run this one

Muslim Council criticises Tories over Islamophobia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50561043

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Says he posting a link to a news site.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Yes it's ok given the media bias. The poll on this thread is a bit irrelevant given the forums bias.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

The difference being that the Conservatives are taking positive action to prevent it. As the article says:

The party suspended a number of members earlier this month after the Guardian supplied it with a dossier produced by an anonymous Twitter user containing examples of allegedly Islamophobic social media posts.

A number of members were also suspended in September, after the BBC highlighted 20 cases to the party of members posting or endorsing Islamophobic material online.

Boris Johnson has already explained that his remarks were in defence of Muslim women.

There is no comparison. People are just clutching at straws with this through sheer desperation.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Back at in the real world of polls Labour is closing the gap, just like 2017...

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Don't hold your breath, Mr K. That's just the manifesto bounce. Once those who were taken in by it realise that this is a much bigger con than the tuition fees wheeze, they will be less excited about the prospect of a Labour Government.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

If only they all thought like you OB ;) A gap of less than 7 points probably denies the Tories a majority, that would be a win for the majority of the country who don't want the Tories or Labour in power.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I'm saddened - but not really surprised - that a General Election in this country is descending into the farcical and deeply troubling issues of people voting for a candidate simply on the grounds of where they stand on Religious orientated issues.

Racism is alive and doing very well thankyou, pushed into the everyday world by those who use its power as a tool.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Polling averages suggest the Tories have a 12-13 point lead at the moment, and electoral calculus is predicting a 68 seat Tory majority.

The manifestos have all come out in the last week to 10 days, we probably need another week for all those to feed through to the polls. Thereafter it will be the campaign trail that makes the difference. Personally I think the chances of Boris cacking that up anywhere near as badly as Teresa May did are next to zero.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Well the result of a certain referendum we had has just encouraged those with those views. The current PM thinks nothing of making derogatory remarks on religious clothing, or the 'not we'. Things have got worse not better.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

'sigh'

*shakes head, walks away*

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And they were 17 points ahead at this point last time. On election day they were 8 points ahead, but the actual vote ended up being 2. Make of that what you will; if you think people love BJ more than TM, you're mistaken.

Record no. of last minute registrations too, 3 million mainly young voters. Wonder what effect that will have?
Who knows? We'll have to wait and see... ;)

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Does that mean that someone who tries to avoid talking to (insert minority here) because they are uncomfortable with (insert minority here) is as racist as someone who beats up and seriously injures, perhaps kills, someone from a (insert minority here) because they hate that (insert minority here)?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-22/...-polls-change/

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

It means what I said and I’m sticking to what I said. No one can be just a “little bit” racist. Utter nonsense.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

As I said ... the difference between the run in now, and the run in in 2017, is the Tory party leader. I think it’s fairly widely agreed that Theresa May did an extraordinarily poor job of it, especially with the Tories’ pension-stealing manifesto commitment having come out.

Will Boris fare as badly? I can’t see it myself.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

they were 24 points ahead last time and look what happened

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I can, TM is a saint compared to the liar incarnate.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

I don’t think moral fortitude is what will decide this election.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Degrees of hate really...

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

He's nothing compared to Corbyn, who is still insisting that the NHS is up for sale. Who does he think will be taken in by this?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Anybody with a knowledge of Boris's track record of broken promises.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Well, the tuth is that only the civil servants have been scoping the nature of possible negotiations - Conservative ministers have not been involved.

So bang goes that deflection story from Corbyn.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Source?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

That's quite an audacious claim that the Civil Service are undermining Ministers and wasting resourcing considering possible options that will not happen.

I see on my day off you've continued to peddle the Conservative at all cost mantra.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Link

The main push for "privatisation" of the NHS came under Labour.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Doesn't matter if the Conservatives want to push further though now, does it?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

so in 2 years of trade talks, there has been no involvement of Government Ministers to review progress and provide direction?

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Arguably I could believe the second part, but due to incompetence on the part of Ministers rather than it being the normal practice in the Civil Service.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

Nothing at all has been agreed. It's just things they might want to discuss and agree upon. "Everything is up for discussion" is very different to "Agree to everything or nothing will be agreed".

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

And discussing items that are non-negotiable is a total waste of time.

Nothing has been agreed but we certainly have the Ministerial steer.

Re: Election 2019 - Week 3
 

At best, it's disingenuous of Labour to squeal about "privatisation", And the evidence of pushing for much further privatisation is...........?